News Tiana's Bayou Adventure - latest details and construction progress

[James Alucobond]

Too many cooks in the kitchen.

Semantics, but I don’t think there are too many cooks. It’s just that a few of the wrong ones have been brought in at times. I personally think this stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be “authentic”. Clearly, to someone high up on this project, actually sourcing something made in New Orleans is the most important aspect of authenticity, even though I think most here would agree that’s secondary to being authentic to the history of the setting (and yes, authenticity is of course somewhat relative in a theme park). Obviously, it’s nicer when you can hit on the nexus of local craftspeople and the historic setting (see: Morocco pavilion), but they’re not doing that here. I think the weather vane, murals, some elements of the color scheme, and some of the hints we’ve had with regard to the music suggest “authentically New Orleans” is trumping anything else to do with the setting.

 

[mickEblu]

Semantics, but I don’t think there are too many cooks. It’s just that a few of the wrong ones have been brought in at times. I personally think this stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be “authentic”. Clearly, to someone high up on this project, actually sourcing something made in New Orleans is the most important aspect of authenticity, even though I think most here would agree that’s secondary to being authentic to the history of the setting (and yes, authenticity is of course somewhat relative in a theme park). Obviously, it’s nicer when you can hit on the nexus of local craftspeople and the historic setting (see: Morocco pavilion), but they’re not doing that here. I think the weather vane, murals, some elements of the color scheme, and some of the hints we’ve had with regard to the music suggest “authentically New Orleans” is trumping anything else to do with the setting.

I think the biggest couple issues with this project are that it’s…

- Lacking a strong creative leader
- they are focusing/prioritizing the wrong things (I’ll leave it at that to avoid having the thread veer off course)

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Another thought that occurred to me. So they put the car out brand new. Why bother "aging" it. Let the weather do that to it over time.

Can’t get more realistic than that.

Why are we mad about a new car looking new, the water tower looks old cause it was old, it wasn’t added there when she took over, she just plopped the tiara ontop

And while we’re at it, AFAIK, the “barn” is no longer a barn, so it’s not supposed to look like one.

I didn't say invented.
What I mean is the ability and access of keeping a vehicle clean and shiny is much easier now than in the 1920's.
Car finishes last longer now too.

And? You think an ambitious, young businesswoman wouldn’t take 15 minutes to have her brand new delivery truck that will be seen in public wiped down every single day if need be? It wasn’t the Stone Ages.

Maybe some critters do it. Disney magic.

Clearly, imagineers are and have been capable of dirtying things up where appropriate, and knowing when to do so.

Clearly, they are more imaginative than this board as a whole.

feel like they are throwing too many different things into this to check off too many boxes, and its going to end up messy, like the queue stuff already is and over storytelling every character in this. Maybe not, will see.

Probably not.

Too many cooks in the kitchen.

Too many back seat drivers.

 

[Incomudro]

Can’t get more realistic than that.

And while we’re at it, AFAIK, the “barn” is no longer a barn, so it’s not supposed to look like one.

And? You think an ambitious, young businesswoman wouldn’t take 15 minutes to have her brand new delivery truck that will be seen in public wiped down every single day if need be? It wasn’t the Stone Ages.

Maybe some critters do it. Disney magic.

Clearly, imagineers are and have been capable of dirtying things up where appropriate, and knowing when to do so.

Clearly, they are more imaginative than this board as a whole.

Probably not.

Too many back seat drivers.

I think she'd be too tired to wash her own vehicle after her busy day.
Unless she instructed her subjects to wash it, but that'd be bad for her image.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think she'd be too tired to wash her own vehicle after her busy day.
Unless she instructed her subjects to wash it, but that'd be bad for her image.

Um, "subjects"? Don't you mean employees who work at Tiana's Foods who's responsibility could include washing their delivery vehicle after the days use. Not sure how that would be a bad image.

 

[Incomudro]

Um, "subjects"? Don't you mean employees who work at Tiana's Foods who's responsibility could include washing their delivery vehicle after the days use. Not sure how that would be a bad image.

You missed my joke.
She's a princess.
Asking her employees, er... Co-workers to wash the work vehicle would be treating them like her subjects.

 

[Disney Irish]

You missed my joke.
She's a princess.
Asking her employees, er... Co-workers to wash the work vehicle would be treating them like her subjects.

No, I got the joke but didn't think it was funny in the context of what we know about the attraction.

And no asking to wash a vehicle as part of ones duties is part of a job, or in this case part of co-owning a business. So its not treating them like subjects.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I'm sure the contracts will all be available for our perusal in the queue, so we can probably table the debate about the responsibilities of the co-op employee owners until the ride opens.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

You missed my joke.
She's a princess.
Asking her employees, er... Co-workers to wash the work vehicle would be treating them like her subjects.

Whoops, right over my head.

But talk about applying today's stuff to the 1920's. Washing a vehicle as part of one's job is not wrong, especially then. Her employees/employee-owners aren't Gen Z. (Now that's my joke.)

I like the idea that the critters clean it every night. They helped Snow White, Cinderella, etc.

 

[Earlie the Pearlie]

Just want to point out…
Weren’t the vehicles in World of Motion pretty clean?
I think that cars being used throughout a HISTORY of TRANSPORTATION should have picked up some wear and tear over the years.
But you never see anybody bring that up.
Just sayin’

(And I am aware that the Presentational style of EPCOT Center is different than the New Traditional style of TBA, but show elements like animals, rock work, and, y’know, cars, should be pretty realistic in either one)

 

[Drew the Disney Dude]

I think the biggest couple issues with this project are that it’s…

- Lacking a strong creative leader
- they are focusing/prioritizing the wrong things (I’ll leave it at that to avoid having the thread veer off course)

In my opinion, this attraction has one of the best creative leaders it could've had out of everyone at Imagineering. Ted Robledo has worked on:

• Be Our Guest Restaurant
• Gaston’s Tavern
• Princess Fairytale Hall
• Enchanted Tales with Belle
• Iron Man Experience
• The Enchanted Tale of Beauty and the Beast
• Fantasyland Forest Theatre
• Minnie’s Style Studio

 

[SuddenStorm]

To me, the more side characters with complete bios they show, the muddier the ride feels. Look at the side characters from Splash, did we know every single one of their names, favorite ice cream flavors, and personality?
View attachment 778345
View attachment 778346
View attachment 778347
No. We knew a few, like Br'er Frog, Saddlesore Swanson, or the Swamp Boys, but they were there to make the world feel lived in. They were just "Br'er/ S'is ______", and that was OK because the focus was on Br'er Rabbit/Fox/Bear.

The way they keep acting like every character is of utmost importance when we'll see them for maybe 10 seconds as the log goes by makes it seem like they're trying to cram way too much into the ride. Just look at these new frogs:

View attachment 778348
Way too much for a character guests will likely forget about 5 minutes after they get off the ride.

Anyway, ramble over.

There's nothing wrong with the designers developing an elaborate backstory in order to help inform design decisions. If done well, this can help the attraction feel stronger and more cohesive.

But it's not stuff that needs to be told to the guest beyond visual clues and strong characters design, and it's certainly strange to market for the attraction.

 

[Doberge]

Knowing nothing about this topic, I looked it up, and it seems New Orleans was one of the first places in the US where Cuban jazz made an impact. This was in the early twentieth century.

Ragtime music, with syncopated rhythms, existed before jazz and is more sheet music. Ragtime was popular in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Inspirations included marching band music, African beats, European stuff, minstrel music, and others. Kinda like a gumbo of music. So there are many influences, including Spanish.

Composers like Jelly Roll Morton helped the bridge the gap from ragtime to jazz, which is importantly improvisational. Jazz took off in the 1920s in New Orleans. Some of Jelly Roll Morton's music included Spanish influence, and thus similar beats to Cuban music.

So yeah, there are inspirations from Spain, Cuba, the Caribbean, etc on jazz music in New Orleans, but Afro-Cuban did not evolve until like 20 years later in the 1940s. It was brought forward by people like Mario Bauza, born in Cuba who moved to New York, and also Dizzy Gillespie who was important to bridging gap from what evolved as what we might call traditional jazz to Afro-Cuban jazz. And these developments happened in New York, not New Orleans. Afro-Cuban jazz music is ultimately distinct from what one would have heard in New Orleans. Desi Arnaz played a watered down Afro Cuban and if listening to that and the other mentioned musicians I don't think people hear that style of music and think of bayous and New Orleans.

Afro-Cuban evolved partially from New Orleans and other jazz from the 1920s and 1930s, so it did not exist as it's own thing to have been around in New Orleans in the early 20th century. What they share, Cuban influence, heavily influenced Afro-Cuban because Mario Bouza, a Cuban, had a big role, but in what's now New Orleans jazz, Dixieland Jazz, etc, Cuban music was a smaller influence.

I hope that makes some sense. Tried typing out on my phone and I'm feeling lazy to edit. I'll add that I won't claim to be an expert and that this is all just from my understanding.

 

[celluloid]

There's nothing wrong with the designers developing an elaborate backstory in order to help inform design decisions. If done well, this can help the attraction feel stronger and more cohesive.

But it's not stuff that needs to be told to the guest beyond visual clues and strong characters design, and it's certainly strange to market for the attraction.

Well they can't exactly market the ride dynamics itself.

The stats of that and ride vehicles etc....are the same. So part of it is they need to build as much hype as they can.

And only the same three characters repeating without a simple cat and mouse reverse psychology story is a struggle for an 8 minute ride with lots of scenes and area to cover.

 

[Casper Gutman]

As always, the core issue is a misunderstanding of theme park metareality. Theme park “authenticity” should immediately evoke a time and place. It should be realer than the real thing, a copy of an original that never existed. To a considerable extent, theme park “authenticity” boils down to “vibes.” If you’re explaining, if you’re citing academic sources, you’ve done it wrong.

The PatF movie gets this - it FEELS right. Much of what we’re seeing of the ride feels like neither the movie or the imaginary New Orleans in which it was set. It’s an attraction cobbled together out of Wikipedia entries.

 

[Bocabear]

As always, the core issue is a misunderstanding of theme park metareality. Theme park “authenticity” should immediately evoke a time and place. It should be realer than the real thing, a copy of an original that never existed. To a considerable extent, theme park “authenticity” boils down to “vibes.” If you’re explaining, if you’re citing academic sources, you’ve done it wrong.

The PatF movie gets this - it FEELS right. Much of what we’re seeing of the ride feels like neither the movie or the imaginary New Orleans in which it was set. It’s an attraction cobbled together out of Wikipedia entries.

That is the perfect summation...
the most important word here is "evoke"
Adventureland never looked like a real place, nor did any of the original lands at Disney theme parks, but the are evocative of locations....and transportive.... The Polynesian does not really look like Polynesia... It evokes a time and place... not literally... That is what it seems like the new Disney parks and experiences seem to miss... It doesn't have to be an encyclopedia of the place, but it has to feel like what we imagine...
no one thinks about New Orleans and it's Salt dome... They think about the French Quarter, The music, The food, the Bayou...etc... Give us the essence of the place shown in the movie... That is what people want to see....

 

[Incomudro]

That is the perfect summation...
the most important word here is "evoke"
Adventureland never looked like a real place, nor did any of the original lands at Disney theme parks, but the are evocative of locations....and transportive.... The Polynesian does not really look like Polynesia... It evokes a time and place... not literally... That is what it seems like the new Disney parks and experiences seem to miss... It doesn't have to be an encyclopedia of the place, but it has to feel like what we imagine...
no one thinks about New Orleans and it's Salt dome... They think about the French Quarter, The music, The food, the Bayou...etc... Give us the essence of the place shown in the movie... That is what people want to see....

And there's no need to spell it all out for us - often literally through signs, plots, and backstories.
We can feel it all out if it's done well.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

In my opinion, this attraction has one of the best creative leaders it could've had out of everyone at Imagineering. Ted Robledo has worked on:

• Be Our Guest Restaurant
• Gaston’s Tavern
• Princess Fairytale Hall
• Enchanted Tales with Belle
• Iron Man Experience
• The Enchanted Tale of Beauty and the Beast
• Fantasyland Forest Theatre
• Minnie’s Style Studio

So this is the first ride he has worked on. None of the things on that list except for Enchanted Tales impresses me that much.

I suspect, however, that Charita and Carmen were the driving forces behind this project. And frankly, from what we've seen, much of this attraction looks like a complete mess. The animatronics (the A1000 ones with mouths that move, that is) are the only silver lining.

(Bring on the angry reacts, I'm the king of the Little People, I can take it)

 

[SuddenStorm]

In my opinion, this attraction has one of the best creative leaders it could've had out of everyone at Imagineering. Ted Robledo has worked on:

• Be Our Guest Restaurant
• Gaston’s Tavern
• Princess Fairytale Hall
• Enchanted Tales with Belle
• Iron Man Experience
• The Enchanted Tale of Beauty and the Beast
• Fantasyland Forest Theatre
• Minnie’s Style Studio

Sure, but it's replacing a ride that had Tony Baxter as the lead, and his is a tough resume to beat.

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
Journey Into Imagination
Fantasyland '83 (Disneyland)
Fantasy Faire (Disneyland)
Star Tours
Disneyland Paris
Indiana Jones Adventure
Splash Mountain

 

[celluloid]

As always, the core issue is a misunderstanding of theme park metareality. Theme park “authenticity” should immediately evoke a time and place. It should be realer than the real thing, a copy of an original that never existed. To a considerable extent, theme park “authenticity” boils down to “vibes.” If you’re explaining, if you’re citing academic sources, you’ve done it wrong.

The PatF movie gets this - it FEELS right. Much of what we’re seeing of the ride feels like neither the movie or the imaginary New Orleans in which it was set. It’s an attraction cobbled together out of Wikipedia entries.

The irony, if people got that we would not have people saying the reason this retheme happened was political.

Splash Mountain nor SOTS was ever authentic reconstruction. And neither is Burt or the other Chimney Sweeps in Mary Poppins.