Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
They have a long history of making changes in the parks without citing inclusivity, so why would they feel the need to start now?
They’ve rarely gone after attractions considered to be this sacred before, especially in the castle parks. Promoting backlash and “inclusivity” gives them protection to take things further than they have gone before.
It will do no harm. Just like the changes with Tower of Terror and the Rivers of America and Small World and Pixar Pier, there will be a lot of furor and complaints and attendance will still go up. They don't make changes to appease the people going to the parks today, but to encourage new visitors in the future.

And really, what excuse is there to keep the ride the same for 30 years?
I’ve explain the harm it is doing in my other replies. Also, fun fact: you can find ways encourage new visitors in the future without alienating the majority of people who are going to the parks today. There have also been many attractions in the parks that have stayed essentially the same for much longer than 30 years as well, so age isn’t an excuse for Splash Mountain’s removal.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Well, for one, I would suggest that Disney with people like Miss Georgia who was mentioned earlier in this thread that have a close relationship with these stories and work to preserve them. If there’s anyone who should influence what this ride could look like going forward, it should be them. There should also be an exhibit of some kind at the end that exposes guests to more Br’er Rabbit stories and actively encourages them to develop a further interest in the tales.

That doesn't really help to change the ride though. What would you do about the ride to distance it from the 1946 film?


Considering that Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the hard facts that have created America, it would be a crime to prevent stories that have influenced a good portion of American culture from inspiring others because of mistakes made with their handling in the past. In fact, those mistakes should emphasize the responsibility Disney has ensuring their reputations can be improved for future generations.

I do think the stories have value and should be preserved and retold: but not within the context of the 1946 movie. That was always the problem. If there is a sincere desire to preserve the stories and their place in the culture, why not advocate for re-imagining the Brer stories with different characterizations, different voices and different music? Why not create a black produced version of the stories, in a way they want the stories to be conveyed?

But what if the community does not want these stories told in this way? What if the source material is so far removed from the community, they only see it as a disconnected historical footnote? Why then, not just advocate for black artists to tell the stories they want to tell, rather than trying to prop up Song of the South?


You’re pretty extreme in insinuating everyone who’s angry over the ride’s removal is racist.

I certainly don't want to imply that everyone that likes the ride is a racist, or even that everyone who wants the ride to stay is being racist. I just can't see a good selfless argument for why the ride needs to stay.


The fact that you’re demonizing and belittling our perspectives is proof that Disney’s actions have in fact created a space where we can’t have honest discussions about their controversial material, allowing radicalized positions on them to further develop and inevitably result the wholesale demonization of everyone and everything relating to them regardless of any nuance the situation may require.

Right now, there seems to be little point in having a discussion, and frankly, I do feel a little insulted at the idea that NOW a discussion has to take place. Song of the South was released 75 years ago and has been a point of "discussion" all this time. Splash Mountain was announced 34 years ago, and back then people asked about the connection to Song of the South. But only now that the ride is being removed and Disney has said they don't want to support it, we're supposed to engage in honest discussion? Only now, when threatened with extinction, are we supposed to find some way to redeem the seventy-five-year-old movie and try to see the good in it?

I don't really mean to demonize anyone, but if you think that putting a sticker on a DVD or a warning label at the end of a ride, will somehow excuse the racism and appropriation, you're wrong.

Attractions come and go at Disneyland and always have. It is a natural part of the lifecycle of entertainment that attractions will eventually close, and Splash Mountain is no exception to that. Disney may be taking a stand on social progress and accelerating that change, but that's their decision to do so, and they do so with the hope of being more inclusive and attracting a wider audience in the future. They are investing time, money and energy in revamping the ride and representing it and telling new stories. New stories that can be just as good as the old ones.

What valid reason is there to suggest that Splash Mountain needs to stay, other than asserting that there is no imagination left in the world and that there are no new stories worth telling.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
They’ve rarely gone after attractions considered to be this sacred before, especially in the castle parks. Promoting backlash and “inclusivity” gives them protection to take things further than they have gone before.

What about previous changes to the parks like the Jungle Cruise or Pirates? What harm did the original 1997 PC changes to Pirates have? Has the park gone under yet?


I’ve explain the harm it is doing in my other replies.

Right... because once again there is this spectre of some angry majority of people swearing off going to Disneyland forever because they took out Splash Mountain. It isn't going to happen. Some will be disappointed, and some will be sad, but really the ones that are going to be so very angry about this change and the reasons for it, probably shouldn't be going to Disneyland anymore, anyway.
 

planodisney

Well-Known Member
I found SotS to be a one-and-done, but it should be available to officially purchase/stream. Disney was dumb to lock it away.
Bravo!!! I’ve actually never seen it but to me this is the correct mindset.
I’m not really an unbiased opinion on this subject because Uncle Remus was such an important part of my childhood. I grew up in the south, then California hearing these tales every night from my mom. These stories caused me to think about slavery and the culture they lived in like I don’t think other children did.
I had such a “pride” for what they endured and struggled to overcome and appreciation for their unbelievable cultural contributions given to the world. I can’t explain it but it gave me a warmth and compassion for the slaves and ancestors at a very very young age. It allowed this Lilly white Italian boy to emotionally bond with them instead of just narcissistically feeling sorry for what they went through. Sorry if I’m not wording this correctly.
 

Kate F

Well-Known Member
What about previous changes to the parks like the Jungle Cruise or Pirates? What harm did the original 1997 PC changes to Pirates have? Has the park gone under yet?




Right... because once again there is this spectre of some angry majority of people swearing off going to Disneyland forever because they took out Splash Mountain. It isn't going to happen. Some will be disappointed, and some will be sad, but really the ones that are going to be so very angry about this change and the reasons for it, probably shouldn't be going to Disneyland anymore, anyway.
Would you say the same thing if it were any other major ride this were happening to, like Haunted Mansion? Kinda seems like you’re saying Splash isn’t as sacred as rides like Pirates and Mansion because people won’t care enough to stop going (which is false btw)
 

BasiltheBatLord

Well-Known Member
Names and some animals are different. Also, these stories vary from multiple African countries.
So again it's hard for me to imagine how a more authentic attraction would differ from what Splash Mountain currently is. The SotS-inspired art style would change, the characters names and the songs?

If that's the case they should just retheme it like that and keep it the way it is, so now we can have an "authentic" Splash Mountain. No problem, right?
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
That doesn't really help to change the ride though. What would you do about the ride to distance it from the 1946 film?




I do think the stories have value and should be preserved and retold: but not within the context of the 1946 movie. That was always the problem. If there is a sincere desire to preserve the stories and their place in the culture, why not advocate for re-imagining the Brer stories with different characterizations, different voices and different music? Why not create a black produced version of the stories, in a way they want the stories to be conveyed?

But what if the community does not want these stories told in this way? What if the source material is so far removed from the community, they only see it as a disconnected historical footnote? Why then, not just advocate for black artists to tell the stories they want to tell, rather than trying to prop up Song of the South?
As I said If there’s anyone who should influence what this ride could look like going forward, it should be the people that have a close relationship with these stories and work to preserve them. I didn’t get into much specifics of how they should go about handling it because I can’t speak to what exactly what they feel should or shouldn’t be changed about the attraction and frankly, neither should you. At this point, I think that even if the attraction were to be changed in a way that didn’t sit well with fans defending the attraction as you suggest, most could at least appreciate there was an attempt to bring some justice to the stories in some way as opposed to a complete demonization and erasure.
I certainly don't want to imply that everyone that likes the ride is a racist, or even that everyone who wants the ride to stay is being racist. I just can't see a good selfless argument for why the ride needs to stay.
Well, If you don’t want to imply that everyone is a racist or is being racist, then you should be more specific in how you phrase things.
Right now, there seems to be little point in having a discussion, and frankly, I do feel a little insulted at the idea that NOW a discussion has to take place. Song of the South was released 75 years ago and has been a point of "discussion" all this time. Splash Mountain was announced 34 years ago, and back then people asked about the connection to Song of the South. But only now that the ride is being removed and Disney has said they don't want to support it, we're supposed to engage in honest discussion? Only now, when threatened with extinction, are we supposed to find some way to redeem the seventy-five-year-old movie and try to see the good in it?

I don't really mean to demonize anyone, but if you think that putting a sticker on a DVD or a warning label at the end of a ride, will somehow excuse the racism and appropriation, you're wrong.
I’m not saying we need to engage in an honest discussion about the film now. I’m saying that Disney shouldn’t have taken actions that have prevented honest discussion on the film in the past and will continue to prevent honest discussions it in future. Not releasing the film hasn’t solved anything. It’s only exacerbated the controversy to the point where it has become something that is bigger than itself and can tarnish more legacies beyond it’s own. No matter how strong of an opinion you have on the film or it’s origins, attempting to hide and erase it has never been the path to peace.
Attractions come and go at Disneyland and always have. It is a natural part of the lifecycle of entertainment that attractions will eventually close, and Splash Mountain is no exception to that. Disney may be taking a stand on social progress and accelerating that change, but that's their decision to do so, and they do so with the hope of being more inclusive and attracting a wider audience in the future. They are investing time, money and energy in revamping the ride and representing it and telling new stories. New stories that can be just as good as the old ones.

What valid reason is there to suggest that Splash Mountain needs to stay, other than asserting that there is no imagination left in the world and that there are no new stories worth telling.
If attractions eventually close as a natural part of the lifecycle of entertainment, how come there are still opening day attractions at Disneyland from over 65 years ago? 🤔 This may be Disney’s decision, but I don’t have to agree with any aspect of it. Also, people want older classic attractions to remain doesn’t mean there’s no imagination left in the world or no new stories to be told. As I’ve previously stated, there are plenty of attractions older than Splash Mountain. Should they all bite the dust too in order to ensure there’s imagination left in the world and new stories can be told?
 
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Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So again it's hard for me to imagine how a more authentic attraction would differ from what Splash Mountain currently is. The SotS-inspired art style would change, the characters names and the songs?

If that's the case they should just retheme it like that and keep it the way it is, so now we can have an "authentic" Splash Mountain. No problem, right?
I never suggested that Disney should simply replace Splash with the non-appropriated original stories though. The African setting wouldn’t fit and Disney wouldn’t do it anyway.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
What about previous changes to the parks like the Jungle Cruise or Pirates? What harm did the original 1997 PC changes to Pirates have? Has the park gone under yet?
This is a far bigger change than those were and it’s completely dishonest to pretend otherwise. It’s also one part of a bigger initiative that’s been said to be only the begining.
Right... because once again there is this spectre of some angry majority of people swearing off going to Disneyland forever because they took out Splash Mountain. It isn't going to happen. Some will be disappointed, and some will be sad, but really the ones that are going to be so very angry about this change and the reasons for it, probably shouldn't be going to Disneyland anymore, anyway.
I’m not saying saying attendance at the parks would be completely eradicated or anything, but this and potentially similar decisions in the near future could lead to an erosion of repeat guests over time. Also, I’ve got to respect your attitude towards guests who are angry about the change and the reasons for it visiting Disneyland. It’s very “inclusive” of you to want to exclude them.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I’m concerned that if Splash is removed that anyone like me who claims to be a fan of said attraction will be looked down upon. Heck, we’re already being looked down upon because of this whole drama.

Cut out the loud noise (from both ends) that is driven by the twitter crowds. The attraction is innocuous and pleasant. The material is appropriated and Disney is embarrassed by it.

Both can be wholly true. The problem isn't the fan base (well, outside of the Twitter extremists and the equally nasty Extreme Disney Fandom). The problem is every step of the way Disney has mishandled this. They shouldn't have made the movie at the time. They certainly should have known better by the late 80's that there were major problems with the film. They also shouldn't have hidden away their embarrassment and made it taboo.

Finally, they shouldn't have made a ride out of such problematic material. Further merchandising and promoting something that they wanted to hide away. And quite a good ride at that. But they did - and it was a great ride and not at all racist as its own entity. But the material still was. The songs weren't, but they are also attached to a film that was.

It's all a messy situation of their own making. Love the ride, be mad at Disney for trojan horsing in such problematic material by "Disneyfying" or sanitizing their past transgressions.
 

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