Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[PiratesMansion]

You had mentioned metrics earlier, was just asking what those metrics were. Can’t imagine aggravating a huge part of your fan base was justified based on any real metrics

If there were numerical metrics, as I've said, we're never going to get them (if you somehow got them, please share. Otherwise you're basically in the same boat as the rest of us).

Given that, I don't understand why the underlying, very obvious reason for the change (they don't want to be associated with property A, but they have property B that they're happier to be associated with that also happens to make sense as a changeover option) isn't accepted.

Three years and counting of people denying the obvious truth behind all of this. That's the thing about the truth: it remains the same whether or not people like it.

 

[LittleBuford]

After all, wasn’t it this visionary that green-lit SotS in the first place? How do you separate the man from the message?

By remembering that he, like anyone else, was a product of his time. Not everything he said or did is going to chime with modern societal attitudes.

The slippery-slope argument ignores two important facts: 1) There is a whole spectrum between the two extremes of preserving everything and scrapping it all; and 2) certain missteps were acknowledged and corrected even during Walt's time (e.g., the peddler caricature in The Three Little Pigs and Sunflower in Fantasia).

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

I have this theory that Disney creates characters to overlay attractions they want to redo.

Malestorm had its following but was generally boring for most people, so a vaguely Norwegian world of Frozen seems too perfect of an overlay to be a coincidence. If you observe that Malestorm had ties to Marc Davis' ice palace attraction that also influenced Frozen, it's clear to see the progression.

Then Tiana and the proximity of Splash to New Orleans Square, association with critters, it can work in Frontierland at WDW because there are singing bears down the street...it doesn't seem like just a coincidence.

They could have done anything with Splash, but they went with the first African American Disney princess to replace Song of the South. It seems like long term plans are made to develop within the parks.

 

[mlayton144]

By remembering that he, like anyone else, was a product of his time. Not everything he said or did is going to chime with modern societal attitudes.

The slippery-slope argument ignores two important facts: 1) There is a whole spectrum between the two extremes of preserving everything and scrapping it all; and 2) certain missteps were acknowledged and corrected even during Walt's time (e.g., the peddler caricature in The Three Little Pigs and Sunflower in Fantasia).

Good points and acknowledged , however tearing out splash and banning Zip seems like just the extremes you are referring to above.

 

[LittleBuford]

Good points and acknowledged , however tearing out splash and banning Zip seems like just the extremes you are referring to above.

I was as shocked as anyone when they announced the retheme, but when you stop to think about it, the ride’s association with that film was bound to become an issue one day. All we can do now is hope that Tiana’s Bayou Adventure turns out to be a great experience in its own right.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

I have this theory that Disney creates characters to overlay attractions they want to redo.

Malestorm had its following but was generally boring for most people, so a vaguely Norwegian world of Frozen seems too perfect of an overlay to be a coincidence. If you observe that Malestorm had ties to Marc Davis' ice palace attraction that also influenced Frozen, it's clear to see the progression.

Then Tiana and the proximity of Splash to New Orleans Square, association with critters, it can work in Frontierland at WDW because there are singing bears down the street...it doesn't seem like just a coincidence.

They could have done anything with Splash, but they went with the first African American Disney princess to replace Song of the South. It seems like long term plans are made to develop within the parks.

Tower of Terror movie in development with Scarlett Johansson too. No one is asking for that, but they want to remove the Twilight Zone because they don't own that.

 

[D.Silentu]

Tower of Terror movie in development with Scarlett Johansson too. No one is asking for that, but they want to remove the Twilight Zone because they don't own that.

Much as I truly love the Twilight Zone, I always though that Disney would drop the connection to the series from the ride eventually. The attraction's story is strong enough to stand on its own. As for the Californian tower, I suppose I was half right.

 

[TP2000]

Here's some photos from the WDW thread on this ride that the talented @DCBaker provided, which is dangerous for me because I keep getting confused on which thread is which and post stuff in the wrong thread. But these are obviously WDW photos, so I think it's safe.

And these images are things which will apparently be duplicated for the Disneyland version.

The mural is nearing completion in the queue. This would look great on a school playground, or on a brick wall in the parking lot next to a hipster restaurant. But in Critter Country and Frontierland?

And here's the WDW mountain with the new Employee Owned Tiana's Foods water tower. That part just sends me into gales of laughter whenever I think about it. Just profoundly stupid and needlessly pandering, in my opinion.

 

[mlayton144]

I find it strange that you call it pandering in this instance but are willing to accept all the other feel-good (and arguably hypocritical) messaging that Disney puts out.

Interesting point haven’t thought of that (honestly) , would be interested to hear them - what are some of the backstories in the parks that are polar opposites of how they operate and exist ? Do as I say but not as I do stuff

 

[LittleBuford]

Interesting point haven’t thought of that (honestly) , would be interested to hear them - what are some of the backstories in the parks that are polar opposites of how they operate and exist ? Do as I say but not as I do stuff

I mean, Disney's entire brand is about promoting warm fuzzy messages that have almost nothing to do with the company's money-making objectives. For blatant examples of such hypocrisy, look no further than Animal Kingdom (though my views on that park aren't exactly popular in these parts).

I'm not faultless in this, of course. We fans routinely suspend our disbelief and buy into the fiction (or at least those parts of it that appeal to us).

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Why I continue to buy into the "magic" is that I believe that many of the people working for Disney truly do believe in these values, even if the company itself is no better than any other.

Agreed, the CMs are the ones who keep the spirit of Disney alive, not the boardroom or PR people.

 

[LittleBuford]

Agreed, the CMs are the ones who keep the spirit of Disney alive

I would include the animators and Imagineers as well.

 

[Rich T]

Re: The mural:

The.
Attraction.
Is.
Not.
Finished.

Back in the 80’s when I saw the first image of the upcoming “Little Mermaid” film—with the first look at Flounder—I wanted to puke. Then the movie turned out to be fantastic.

I love every mural Mary Blair did. They brought warmth and humanity to what could have been cold, sterile environments.

I mean, what’s the worry here? That a mural is going to destroy the believability of an impressionistic cartoon environment that we haven’t even gotten a good look at yet? That we’re going to be ripped out of the experience of being in modern-day, corporate-owned, jump-through-our-hoops, reservations all gone sorrrryyyyy, money money money Disneyland and Magic Kingdom?

It’s either gonna work or it’s not. We’ll know when it’s done. The parks have far more wrong with them right now than one mural on a log ride.

 

[mickEblu]

Agreed, the CMs are the ones who keep the spirit of Disney alive, not the boardroom or PR people.

Most CM's post pandemic have been poor to mediocre in my experience. Occasionally some good ones stand out.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Re: The mural:

The.
Attraction.
Is.
Not.
Finished.

Back in the 80’s when I saw the first image of the upcoming “Little Mermaid” film—with the first look at Flounder—I wanted to puke. Then the movie turned out to be fantastic.

I love every mural Mary Blair did. They brought warmth and humanity to what could have been cold, sterile environments.

I mean, what’s the worry here? That a mural is going to destroy the believability of an impressionistic cartoon environment that we haven’t even gotten a good look at yet? That we’re going to be ripped out of the experience of being in modern-day, corporate-owned, jump-through-our-hoops, reservations all gone sorrrryyyyy, money money money Disneyland and Magic Kingdom?

It’s either gonna work or it’s not. We’ll know when it’s done. The parks have far more wrong with them right now than one mural on a log ride.

I don’t think it will destroy the believability, i just don’t think it fits the area and the subtlety of the look of the park in that area. One man's opinion.

Are there bigger issues in the park? Yes- but that doesn't mean we cannot comment or disagree on elements added to it that we don't care for. Or that we let poor design choices slide.

But we're all entitled to our opinions. It's what makes these boards interesting.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Re: The mural:

The.
Attraction.
Is.
Not.
Finished.

Back in the 80’s when I saw the first image of the upcoming “Little Mermaid” film—with the first look at Flounder—I wanted to puke. Then the movie turned out to be fantastic.

I love every mural Mary Blair did. They brought warmth and humanity to what could have been cold, sterile environments.

I mean, what’s the worry here? That a mural is going to destroy the believability of an impressionistic cartoon environment that we haven’t even gotten a good look at yet? That we’re going to be ripped out of the experience of being in modern-day, corporate-owned, jump-through-our-hoops, reservations all gone sorrrryyyyy, money money money Disneyland and Magic Kingdom?

It’s either gonna work or it’s not. We’ll know when it’s done. The parks have far more wrong with them right now than one mural on a log ride.

Right? Literally looking at the INCOMPLETE mural through scrims and making vast judgments. It’s the same with the story. We know two things about it, but it’s garbage and others can do better.

Having initial thoughts is one, but making vast judgements with little information/mostly incomplete work is weird and unfair to me.

 

[mickEblu]

Right? Literally looking at the INCOMPLETE mural through scrims and making vast judgments. It’s the same with the story. We know two things about it, but it’s garbage and others can do better.

Having initial thoughts is one, but making vast judgements with little information/mostly incomplete work is weird and unfair to me.

So are you saying you haven't seen enough of the mural to know that that art style doesn't fit in Frontierland or Critter Country?

 

[Californian Elitist]

So are you saying you haven't seen enough of the mural to know that that art style doesn't fit in Frontierland or Critter Country?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. I can barely see the mural through the scrims. I have no idea what the finished design will look like. Not to mention this is in Florida. I have no clue what it will look like here and in person. Photos only do so much.

I will wait until I experience it in person before I claim that it doesn’t belong.

 

[Rich T]

I don’t think it will destroy the believability, i just don’t think it fits the area and the subtlety of the look of the park in that area. One man's opinion.

Are there bigger issues in the park? Yes- but that doesn't mean we cannot comment or disagree on elements added to it that we don't care for. Or that we let poor design choices slide.

But we're all entitled to our opinions. It's what makes these boards interesting.

The area’s theming has been mostly centered around SotS ever since Splash opened. I would not be surprised if the entire area is going to get a makeover and that it will all be quite different from what we’re used to seeing there. This mural might be an indication of some of the new ideas being put in place, but we won’t know how it all fits until the attraction and its surroundings are nearly complete.

Anything out of context can look like it won’t work.

Would I be more comfortable if this had been, say, a big copper statue of Louis? Sure, but I also like seeing something as unexpected as this mural, and I’m intrigued to see what the complete environment is going to look like.

So, let’s see what’s up with this. Whatever it ends up as, at least it’s actually based on an actual Disney-created IP, unlike some other huge projects the company’s completed lately.

 

[Rich T]

So are you saying you haven't seen enough of the mural to know that that art style doesn't fit in Frontierland or Critter Country?

Okay, let’s stop there a moment. Critter Country has been a mishmash of Song of the South, the remnants of the once-beautiful Bear Country and a freaking stuffed bear from England.

The Song of the South elements, all brought in with Splash 1.0, have been the dominant visual theme.

Splash is being completely rethemed to take it as far away from SotS influences as possible.

So why should we think ANY of the area is going to look like it used to? I would suggest that Splash was the only reason for Critter Country to begin with, so I’d be happy if the entire area became bayou-themed—and renamed—and Pooh is eventually sent to the Disney Disappointment Hall of Fame and replaced by Alligator bumper boats.