There is no attendance problem at WDW

[Figments Friend]

Hi Gang...

I just returned from a week long visit to The World and thought i would share some observations...

I was around starting Tuesday, January 20th until the 27th. First thing i noticed right away upon arriving On Property ( besides the FREEZING weather!) was the large contingency of Brazillain tour groups. I also saw more people in the Parks during that week then i expected, but it was nothing terribly out of hand. It was far more reasonable then this past Septemeber, which seemed to be a mad house ( damn 'Free-Dining'....heh heh..)

So the first two days were reletively quiet to me. The cold temps kept the locals away, and only the visiting East Coasters i think were actually out and about in the Parks the first half of the day. You could tell they were from the North, as they all had on their Red Sox and NY Yankees gear. They also stood out from the crowd as most were wearing shorts in 30 degree weather! :lol:

I went to AK on the 21st....cold but manageable crowds. Thursday i hit MK and it was also reasonable, but picked up later in the day when the temps became a little warmer. EPCOT was busy the night i visited as there was a massive party over in Future World West...holy crap it was a huge to-do! I would love to know what company was having that shindig..they had it ALL: catering, light show, giant lighted balloons, DJ and music, tons of people...you name it. I know EPCOT hosts a lot of corporate/convention organizations but this was the first time i saw a party on this scale. It was pretty nice...that was Thursday night ( 22nd) if anyone can clue me in as to what it was.

The weekend of course ment the crowd levels increased, and i noticed this right away. I visited HS and EC again and both were bustling. As the days went by, the weather became warmer, thus the crowds seemed to swell. The locals all came out of the woodwork Sat/Sun so things became fuller then i expected at points. It was still much more reasonable then my last September trip, those crowd levels were nutty!

The last two days i was around it seemed busier. The weather warmed up to what FL weather should be and people were out in droves. I felt i had timed my trip right as it seemed when i was leaving the masses were decending.

Now as far as noticing purchasing, food consumption, etc - I saw no evidence that people were 'cutting back' or trying to save a buck. I saw massive spending and people buying all sorts of things. Seriously, it was not overly evident from what i saw that people were watching their money. Of course, i will admit, i would say about 70% of the people there were from other countries. So the exchange rate was probably in there favor. Also, everyone staying at a Disney Hotel under the recent ' 4 nights for 7' deal had a $200 Disney Gift Card to spend. So i guess when you consider this, maybe what i saw was not a truly accurate picture of people's spending habits. I saved my card ( want to use it for the next trips' booking) and i ended up spending more money then i intended ( damn pins...heh..). Disney knows how to make it's money - get people On Property with a discount package and make their money in merch and food sales. Yeah, i knew this tatic already is the way things work but i was sucked in just like everyone else....:brick:

So in a nutshell - January attendence seemed up. I am interested to see what WDW does to try to keep those numbers up in the coming season. I would like to go back, but probably only would if another amazing discount offer was released. Oh, and out of interest for anyone: Disney Research was EVERYWHERE. Usually i see them asking Guests to take a feedback survey when they check out, or while they wait for Magical Express back to MCO...but THIS time i saw them everywhere. Park exits, resturants, and interestingly at the exit to 'Stitch's Great Escape'! Yeah, i found that interesting. They were asking Guests feedback on the attraction.

One other tidbit...this one made me think of our recent discussions on WDW caring only about making a quick buck:

I was exiting DinoLand USA one day during my visit and overheard a child, maybe 10 or 11, say rather loudly to his parents: " Man, all Disney cares about is making money...". I found that a bit surprising coming from a 11 year old. Could this mean that cost-cutting moves have become so obvious to the average Guest that even a 11 year old can pick up on it? Wow....that is pretty sad if that be the case.


Hope this helps shed further light on the 'January Attendence' curiousity.

 

[TakeMeThere81]

I was exiting DinoLand USA one day during my visit and overheard a child, maybe 10 or 11, say rather loudly to his parents: " Man, all Disney cares about is making money...". I found that a bit surprising coming from a 11 year old. Could this mean that cost-cutting moves have become so obvious to the average Guest that even a 11 year old can pick up on it? Wow....that is pretty sad if that be the case.

Nah, he probably learned that from hearing his parents say it.

When we went a few weeks ago, crowds were up plenty. We still had to implement our typical touring style to keep away from the crowds.

 

[Yankeeplex]

My family and I were there this past Saturday and Sunday (24,25) and it was certainly not what we expected. We arrived on Saturday at about 11am @ MK, and it was pretty crowded. However, the odd thing was that we never had to wait longer than 20 minutes for anything, that includes PoTC, Pooh, and Peter Pan, among others. The only fast pass we used was for BLY, which we got as we were going on the CoP. The pass, however, told us to return in 1/2 hour. We couldn't believe it. We went on CoP and the TTA with still time to spare before we had went to BLY. There were an inordinate amount of Brazilian tours, however. English was definitely a second language as the entire South American tour groups must have been there in all of there glory. Epcot, on Sunday, was a different story. We got there 10 minutes after the park opened and from that time to the time we left, about 4pm, we did not have to wait for one ride. The wait time for Soarin' was only 40 minutes and I just ended up going on it while my family ate @ Seasons. I have been going to Epcot, actually since 2 weeks before it even opened, when I went there for a school science trip. That makes it over 25 years now, and I have never, NEVER seen it that empty. It was a stunningly georgous day, barely a cloud in the sky, and we walked directly on everything, other than Soarin'. That included Nemo, Land, UoE, the Saludos Amigos ride @ Mexico, the Maelstrom, Imagination, Mission Space, and Test Track. We couldn't believe how empty it was. We did the whole park by 3pm and ended up staying an extra hour just to walk around. Even Downtown @ World of Disney was extraordinarily quiet. This was a huge contrast from the time we went on December 7 for 1 week where the parks were very crowded. I really can't explain the descrepency but we absolutely loved the small crowds, but at the same time wondered if this was a view of things to come. Not really sure. :shrug:

 

[jt04]

Nah, he probably learned that from hearing his parents say it.

When we went a few weeks ago, crowds were up plenty. We still had to implement our typical touring style to keep away from the crowds.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[WDW1974]

The parks are going to be pretty busy this weekend because of the Super Bowl, surprisingly so I bet. That being said, no one is going to feel the heat more than Busch Gardens.

I would bet BEC is very happy the Bowl is in Tampa this year. Nothing like having it in town to help ALL businesses in the area.

As to weekends, I always get a kick when people say the parks (any Disney, Busch, Uni etc) are busy.

Honestly, going back to at least the early 90s (maybe longer) I can't ever recall being in ANY park on ANY Saturday or Sunday and the park being empty. EVER. And I was there the last weekend of September in 2001 and am including that.

Locals/APers come out on weekends. This isn't rocket science.

People say it's not as big a deal as in Anaheim and that's true, but it still is a significant amount of people.

I'll go ahead and throw it out there. DAK was operating on a 12-14k budget today*. A bit higher than they have been doing this month but this was the first good weather day in a while and the Super Bowl crowds are starting to emerge. Still, even on a below average day the park felt busier because DAK OPERATIONS IS TURNING INTO CRAP!!! Seriously, Val Bunting should be arrested for running that park into the ground. I had the joy of experiencing four ride stops on Dinosaur because they are two cheap to run both sides of the ride and don't care enough to cycle cars at a decent speed on the side they are running. And don't get me started on Everest's overselling of Fastpasses. The park is just a mess and doesn't even look show ready anymore since they've started running the park Magic Kingdom style (no pressure washing and under funded custodial so trash appears everywhere).

* And before anyone asks... NO, I don't have the final gate count but they most assuredly did not go over projection today.

That's really sad to hear, but not surprising. To all the non-insiders here, Val came from MK where she was second in command to Phil Holmes ... and she wasn't exactly warmly admired and loved there either.

And it's sad these ops things come up over and over again. When I was there in October, Dinosaur was having the same issues (and obviously nothing was working right on Everest).

This $h ... I mean crap is just destroying the place piece by piece whether fans care or not.

Joe Rohde needs to take Val out to the savanna and leave her there.

 

[WDW1974]

WDW1974 is Sally Field?

No.

But she is a Goddess ... she makes everything better just by the light of her being!

 

[tirian]

That's really sad to hear, but not surprising. To all the non-insiders here, Val came from MK where she was second in command to Phil Holmes ... and she wasn't exactly warmly admired and loved there either.

And it's sad these ops things come up over and over again. When I was there in October, Dinosaur was having the same issues (and obviously nothing was working right on Everest).

This $h ... I mean crap is just destroying the place piece by piece whether fans care or not.

Joe Rohde needs to take Val out to the savanna and leave her there.

Seriously, how do these people keep their jobs? These aren't online fanboy rants; as you know, folks in WDI are disgusted with how those two parks are being run right now, too. Lasseter's WDW visits have been—how shall we say—incindiary.

 

[tirian]

No.

But she is a Goddess ... she makes everything better just by the light of her being!

And she can fly.

 

[mcjaco]

I miss the days it looked like this:

This was in November of 1982. And yes, that's me yawning. I have no idea how I could be tired, or bored, at EPCOT Center.

 

[WDW1974]

You know, it's blasphemy to suggest WDW "is half as good as it was" to some of the fanboys here. :zipit: :brick::ROFLOL: Yet it's so, so true....

I don't know if that's true exactly ... but I do know that much of WDW is a pale shadow of what it once was.

I would say that the MK is about half as good as it once was ...

It's funny, and I was discussing this with a friend recently, but I went to HKDL in August, DL/DCA in Sept and WDW in Oct. ... Neither of the first two resorts can compete with WDW in terms of sheer size and things to do (spread out over 30,000 acres of course) ... but I never was bored in the first two and, while things were far from perfect I got the idea that was still the goal. I don't know how anyone who visits WDW today (and did so in the 70s, 80s or even 90s) can claim that's the case now.

Sure, if your first visit was in 2002 ... or 2004 ... or even 1999 maybe.

But if you experienced WDW in its first quarter century of operation, you'd likely think you're at Bizarro Dizney World now.

I admit I don't know (fully) what the answer is. WDW grew way too much, way too fast and it would take an awful lot of vision, creativity as well as $$$ to attempt to bring a first class product to the masses.

I hope, for all WDW fans' sake, that someone in TWDC wakes up and sees the gem that WDW is, and gets its "leaders" out of their positions before it's too late. Because if they don't get their heads out of their collective rears they're going to flush it right down the toilet in the pursuit of the bottom line. Yes, that's pointed directly towards at least two of the current park heads, and possibly all 4. You're right, I should be fair and point that comment to most of the current WDW management, and Rasulo and Ed Grier in CA.

Where have you gone, Matt Ouimet and Greg Emmer, our theme parks turn their lonely eyes to you....

Welll ... we know where Matt and Greg went ... they were forced out of the company by Jay Rasulo because ... well, they actually gave a damn about quality and doing things the right way.

 

[WDW1974]

False. He reported that a third-party consultant had recommended that Disney include rolling park closures as part of a contingency plan, in the event that spiking oil prices resulted in drastically reduced attendance. Kevin Yee did not predict that parks would close on certain days.

Kevin Yee reported a FACT.

Really that simple. That Disney had/has a contingency plan to close parks on a rotational basis (starting with its 3rd and 4th gates a day a week) IF attendance and resort load levels drop below a certain level and stay there for a certain time.

This is FACT.

Some fanboys may not like it, but they're usually the same ones to justify dirty parks and attractions that are falling apart too as being OK because the economy is bad.

 

[WDW1974]

Hi Gang...

I just returned from a week long visit to The World and thought i would share some observations...

I was around starting Tuesday, January 20th until the 27th. First thing i noticed right away upon arriving On Property ( besides the FREEZING weather!) was the large contingency of Brazillain tour groups. I also saw more people in the Parks during that week then i expected, but it was nothing terribly out of hand. It was far more reasonable then this past Septemeber, which seemed to be a mad house ( damn 'Free-Dining'....heh heh..)

That makes some sense. September was always the least crowded month of the year going back to the first years MK was open.

The free food was designed to change that and it certainly has helped.

Now as far as noticing purchasing, food consumption, etc - I saw no evidence that people were 'cutting back' or trying to save a buck. I saw massive spending and people buying all sorts of things. Seriously, it was not overly evident from what i saw that people were watching their money. Of course, i will admit, i would say about 70% of the people there were from other countries. So the exchange rate was probably in there favor. Also, everyone staying at a Disney Hotel under the recent ' 4 nights for 7' deal had a $200 Disney Gift Card to spend. So i guess when you consider this, maybe what i saw was not a truly accurate picture of people's spending habits. I saved my card ( want to use it for the next trips' booking) and i ended up spending more money then i intended ( damn pins...heh..). Disney knows how to make it's money - get people On Property with a discount package and make their money in merch and food sales. Yeah, i knew this tatic already is the way things work but i was sucked in just like everyone else....:brick:

I am sure the $200 gift card was a big factor in spending patterns. As to food and beverage, the DDP has gotten more suckers ... I mean guests to eat all their meals at WDW ... and anecdotally people have been reporting seeing ever increasing numbers of guests bringing in (not smuggling since Disney doesn't stop it anymore) everything from Subway to KFC to their own fixings and making sandwiches.

So in a nutshell - January attendence seemed up.

'Seemed' is the key word.

As I've mentioned before, there are many factors that go into the way a park 'seems.'

Everything from cutting labor and capacity on attractions to inflating standby times/FP to having attractions and dining facilities closed to even the amount of double-wide strollers and ECVs that clutter walkways to the amount of stands/carts/kiosks that have been built.

I'll repeat it ad nauseum (for my fans here) but you can very easily make a light day feel moderate and a moderate day feel crowded and it in no way equates to how many people are actually there.

One other tidbit...this one made me think of our recent discussions on WDW caring only about making a quick buck:

I was exiting DinoLand USA one day during my visit and overheard a child, maybe 10 or 11, say rather loudly to his parents: " Man, all Disney cares about is making money...". I found that a bit surprising coming from a 11 year old. Could this mean that cost-cutting moves have become so obvious to the average Guest that even a 11 year old can pick up on it? Wow....that is pretty sad if that be the case.

Of course that can be the case (although I'm sure people will excuse and explain it away). Kids are smart. We have some on this site. An 11-year-old who has traveled (or even simply is intelligent and isn't a prisoner to his/her home) can tell what Disney is doing as well as an adult.

You don't have to be 30 to know when you've been nickeled and dimed to death by pixie dust!

 

[WDW1974]

My family and I were there this past Saturday and Sunday (24,25) and it was certainly not what we expected. We arrived on Saturday at about 11am @ MK, and it was pretty crowded. However, the odd thing was that we never had to wait longer than 20 minutes for anything, that includes PoTC, Pooh, and Peter Pan, among others. The only fast pass we used was for BLY, which we got as we were going on the CoP. The pass, however, told us to return in 1/2 hour. We couldn't believe it. We went on CoP and the TTA with still time to spare before we had went to BLY. There were an inordinate amount of Brazilian tours, however. English was definitely a second language as the entire South American tour groups must have been there in all of there glory. Epcot, on Sunday, was a different story. We got there 10 minutes after the park opened and from that time to the time we left, about 4pm, we did not have to wait for one ride. The wait time for Soarin' was only 40 minutes and I just ended up going on it while my family ate @ Seasons. I have been going to Epcot, actually since 2 weeks before it even opened, when I went there for a school science trip. That makes it over 25 years now, and I have never, NEVER seen it that empty. It was a stunningly georgous day, barely a cloud in the sky, and we walked directly on everything, other than Soarin'. That included Nemo, Land, UoE, the Saludos Amigos ride @ Mexico, the Maelstrom, Imagination, Mission Space, and Test Track. We couldn't believe how empty it was. We did the whole park by 3pm and ended up staying an extra hour just to walk around. Even Downtown @ World of Disney was extraordinarily quiet. This was a huge contrast from the time we went on December 7 for 1 week where the parks were very crowded. I really can't explain the descrepency but we absolutely loved the small crowds, but at the same time wondered if this was a view of things to come. Not really sure. :shrug:

That's more in line with what I've been hearing ... although not on a weekend ... But I do believe that what you witnessed is pretty typical these days.

One friend told me that there's almost no need to run FP on week days now and that Disney just does so because it would send a bad message if they didn't offer it ... even if your return time is 40 minutes later and the posted wait is 20 minutes, with a REAL wait time of 8-10.

 

[WDW1974]

Seriously, how do these people keep their jobs? These aren't online fanboy rants; as you know, folks in WDI are disgusted with how those two parks are being run right now, too. Lasseter's WDW visits have been—how shall we say—incindiary.

Well, to put it bluntly we all know WDI and TDO are gay (happy, of course ) old boys clubs ... and although Val isn't a boy, she is a long tenured WDW CM ... I believe she was even on the opening teams of Disney-MGM and Euro Disney. Disney won't fire an exec unless he (or ... nah) is caught in a tent of boy scouts ... or in a crack den or moonlights as Bernie Madoff's accountant.

They simply move the same folks around and around ... ostensibly this is so they can expand their horizons and spread their knowledge (and pixie dust) on other facets of the company.

But it does get ridiculous when you see the average WDW exec has had more job titles and positions than the typical Major League Baseball manager.

As to John's visits, I have heard tales myself ... but it seems that Jay's power base in Florida (virtually everyone there owes him something, usually their current positions) is able to blunt those biting criticisms and concerns.

In Anaheim, it's a different story. John also is there much more frequently. It's not like WDW where six months can go by and he's not there once.

 

[tirian]

I miss the days it looked like this:

This was in November of 1982. And yes, that's me yawning. I have no idea how I could be tired, or bored, at EPCOT Center.

Awwwwww, look how cute you were before you turned into a cynical, ale-guzzling Disney fanatic.



Off Topic: Even the trash can designs were better back then!

 

[tirian]

^^ I really wish we could hop in a time machine and go back to when the leadership really believed that WDW was something special—not just a magical place full of magic for Guests who need magic in their unmagical lives and pay a lot of money to get the magic.

It's always been a business, but the people who sincerely believed WDW could be an exemplary, world-class destination gave us the MK, EPCOT Center, DMGM, and the original PI and Disney Village. Today's strategic planners have given us the closed PI, too many mediocre hotels, and some play areas. At least Rohde was able to deliver DAK.

 

[jt04]

^^ I really wish we could hop in a time machine and go back to when the leadership really believed that WDW was something special—not just a magical place full of magic for Guests who need magic in their unmagical lives and pay a lot of money to get the magic.

It's always been a business, but the people who sincerely believed WDW could be an exemplary, world-class destination gave us the MK, EPCOT Center, DMGM, and the original PI and Disney Village. Today's strategic planners have given us the closed PI, too many mediocre hotels, and some play areas. At least Rhode was able to deliver DAK.

Rohde.

I wonder if he helped convince the higher ups of the need for a proper Space Mountain refurb?

 

[mcjaco]

Awwwwww, look how cute you were before you turned into a cynical, ale-guzzling Disney fanatic.

Who's says I'm cynical? :ROFLOL:

Mmmm, I think I have an ale waiting for me at home..... :drevil:

 

[WDW1974]

Awwwwww, look how cute you were before you turned into a cynical, ale-guzzling Disney fanatic.



Off Topic: Even the trash can designs were better back then!

Yeah ... and notice how clean that pavement is. I don't see any gum splotches or water stains from ODV carts.

Of course, I'm still waiting for that cute little poster to 'splain his prior comments that I am hated!!!!!!!!!!

Who could hate someone as wuvable as me?

 

[mcjaco]

^ I'm not so cute no more. And if there was gum after the first four weeks of opening, that would certainly be "bad show!"

Perhaps hated is the wrong term. Passionately disliked.....by some? :lol:

Wuvable? Oh, bruva.