News Theme parks way up

[LucasCole]

We joined when they were still building the DVC's for WL, so 98/99?. I remember my parents complaining that they wouldn't stop bugging us to buy into Saratoga when it was being built. We avoided it like crazy. I finally stayed at Saratoga last year and actually liked it a lot. I guess if you don't like walking then it isn't too great but I liked the overall resort. MUCH better then Bay Lake. Well, BL's lounge is pretty great but that's it. I haven't watched fireworks in the park in like 5+ years?

See we had opposite experience. WL is our home and love what they did with it. Tried SS and felt like I was staying at my great aunts retirement community offsite. Tried bay lake tower and the room and location blew us away. The only problem with it and any monorail resort is dependency on monorail for Epcot when it breaks. Bay lake tower 2 bedroom IMO is better than any accommodations in all of wdw outside grand villas. I hear the GF ones are nicer but these are massive. I know abt the themeing is sterile but i tbink the theming it total contemporary which is uniquely Disney in a wierd way.

Back to the oiginal thread, I tbink the best improvements to wdw of the past 2 decades is the amount of first class accommodations from the DVC boom. Yes it may not help prices or crowds but having so many options for true family suites in Disney that are extensions of the current hotels get spacious and maintained ALMOST makes up for 45 minute waits for SSE at 11am

 

[JamieCoops]

Whilst they are investing in attractions - the pace at which the parks are going, they need to speed it up and double the land space.

It's making for a miserable experience at times with such massive insane crowds.

The one way you can cope with insane crowds is to have more attractions, land space, to gobble up the crowds.

 

[matt9112]

I still can’t get used to SSE being a 25+ min wait. We didn’t get on it this last trip.

wait is never as posted I never wait very long. but I agree I wouldn't wait too long. but it is one if not the greatest ride at epcot.

 

[matt9112]

See we had opposite experience. WL is our home and love what they did with it. Tried SS and felt like I was staying at my great aunts retirement community offsite. Tried bay lake tower and the room and location blew us away. The only problem with it and any monorail resort is dependency on monorail for Epcot when it breaks. Bay lake tower 2 bedroom IMO is better than any accommodations in all of wdw outside grand villas. I hear the GF ones are nicer but these are massive. I know abt the themeing is sterile but i tbink the theming it total contemporary which is uniquely Disney in a wierd way.

Back to the oiginal thread, I tbink the best improvements to wdw of the past 2 decades is the amount of first class accommodations from the DVC boom. Yes it may not help prices or crowds but having so many options for true family suites in Disney that are extensions of the current hotels get spacious and maintained ALMOST makes up for 45 minute waits for SSE at 11am

yeah than universal built family suits without the DVC price tag....cabana bay is best raw value at nay of the parks IMH0
I don't mind paying for something if the value is there but I rarely see it at Disney. swalphin was a great experience being able to walk down the boardwalk where people are paying 4x what I did...makes. no sense.

 

[mikejs78]

Besides a recession, I think they risk losing Goodwill. The crowds in January this year were ridiculous due to staffing cutbacks. I know a number of people who normally travel this time of year who are reconsidering next year, not because of the prices, but because of the massive waits for a week in January.

If Disney were smart they wouldn't try to decrease attendance, they would a) build out the existing parks not named Magic Kingdom with crowd-drawing E-Tickets as well as a number of c/d ticket rides to offset the crowds b) Add some crowd eating c/d ticket rides to MK to help alleviate congestion there, and c) consider a 5th gate.

Then they could draw more people, bringing in more revenue, and having people want to come back more often. But that would just make sense.

 

[gwhb75]

It was a good time to buy in, $87/pt after incentives. The only bad part is we own at Saratoga. But, at the time and for several years after, you could book elsewhere at 7 months. Haven't been able to do that for years now, unless you get lucky.

We bought at Saratoga in 2010 for around $79/point. Those were crazy days. Our first DVC trip we ended up getting 4 out of our 8 days at AKL Concierge level. We haven't had a problem getting other resorts at the 7 month mark now, but I guess it depends where you want to stay (I seem to always be able to get AK no problem (not concierge level..that looks like it was a once-in-a-lifetime-stars-alligned perfectly scenario), but last year we split stay Poly and Boardwalk). TBH, we've only stayed at Saratoga for 4 days since we bought back in 2010.

 

[wdisney9000]

We bought at Saratoga in 2010 for around $79/point. Those were crazy days. Our first DVC trip we ended up getting 4 out of our 8 days at AKL Concierge level. We haven't had a problem getting other resorts at the 7 month mark now, but I guess it depends where you want to stay (I seem to always be able to get AK no problem (not concierge level..that looks like it was a once-in-a-lifetime-stars-alligned perfectly scenario), but last year we split stay Poly and Boardwalk). TBH, we've only stayed at Saratoga for 4 days since we bought back in 2010.

DVC reservations are now similar to what people do with ADR's. People horde reservations up until the last moment to hoping to flip it a profit then cancel around the 30 day window if it doesnt sell/rent. I often see rooms open up around 35 day out window (not always, just often). Earlier this week there was scattered availability for March (random day here and there) and then suddenly 4 days at CCV and another 4 days at Jambo opened up in the morning for mid March. We snagged the CCV and the Jambo was gone within a few hours when I checked back.

I recall up until a few years ago we could get 5-7 days at BW or BC within a 3 or 4 month window fairly often. Nearly impossible nowadays. We've learned to enjoy split stays as its easier to piece together a longer stay if youre not booking 7-11 months out.

 

[draybook]

Plus GotG coming into EPCOT and saving the park.

Um, yeah....

GoTG will be mouth to mouth when that park clearly needs the full staff of the local ER/OR.

 

[Myth Maker]

If Disney were smart they wouldn't try to decrease attendance, they would a) build out the existing parks not named Magic Kingdom with crowd-drawing E-Tickets as well as a number of c/d ticket rides to offset the crowds b) Add some crowd eating c/d ticket rides to MK to help alleviate congestion there, and c) consider a 5th gate.

In my mind they had the opportunity to build a 5th gate with a Star Wars theme park and decided to whimp out and shove it into HWS. With low capacity and only two rides, it won't be enough. Imaging visiting all the different planets in SW. It would of been amazing, and this is coming from someone who isn't much of a SW fan.

At this point I can't see them adding a 5th gate. They are going to try to ride these new changes out for a while. I think the era of big risk spending is over.

 

[JoeCamel]

In my mind they had the opportunity to build a 5th gate with a Star Wars theme park and decided to whimp out and shove it into HWS. With low capacity and only two rides, it won't be enough. Imaging visiting all the different planets in SW. It would of been amazing, and this is coming from someone who isn't much of a SW fan.

At this point I can't see them adding a 5th gate. They are going to try to ride these new changes out for a while. I think the era of big risk spending is over.

If they did a 5th gate then it would be another incomplete park. They need to finish what they started and create enough draw to relieve MK crowding. Operation costs are very high when people come for 1/2 day then hop.

 

[dennis-in-ct]

So more people are coming. Things cost more (or people are spending more) at a rate double that, and costs for Disney are down at a rate double that. Sounds like Disney realizes people will keep coming and spending even when Disney spends less on the product itself.

And while I still obviously love wdw (why would I be here) I can attest to this fact currently. I’m on day 4 of my trip and all I see are

1. massive crowds on what used to be the deadest season of year

2. broken monorails and rides, spent 50 waiting to go to Epcot from TTC Sunday morning. TT and all the mountains in mk have been broken this week

3. Understaffed restaurants with no ADRs available anywhere. I had to bus my own table at tusker house tonight. Yet the place was half full

4. Insane lines by mid morning. A 25 min wait for the people mover because everything else is 60 mins plus by 10 am. On a tuesday

See I don’t care how many opportunties Disney takes to make money on me. If the experience is good I’ll pay whatever. Create all the stupid upsell packages you want, go ahead and charge me for my freaking shampoo. But I bought dvc, I plan all I can, am efficient with my time, and still cannot get on a ride unless I have a fast pass... and have to wait 25 mins for a turkey sandwich at the contempo cafe. The resort is understaffed and the place needs serious investments. Not more ride simulators. They just bring in more crowds for a watered down experience.

Thank you for sharing your comments. I feel you have summarized perfectly the current state of affairs.
We had a similar experience a couple years ago. During that trip we went to universal for a day and I felt like we could *exhale*. The theme park experience was what I remembered in the pre-magic band years. The freedom and flexibly aspect of the Universal day was a joy.

At Universal we simply felt like seeing an attraction because we just happened to be in that area and guess what ... we just wandered in the line and EXPERIENCED the attraction. The food Service at the Simspons area was top notch. We went through the line, choosing our (very good) food and at the register, a team member took our trays and walked us to a clean table with a "reserve" sign. He placed our items on the table, took the reserve sign and asked us what else he could bring to the table. I think he actually got our fountain drinks and more napkins to boot. It was completely stress-free and lovely. And in complete contrast to the new WDW norm.

WDW needs to take a hard and uncomfortable look at the mess these Magic Bands have created. Or perhaps it is simply the lack of ride capacity and experiences to absorb the crowds. Perhaps the staffing is reduced as you say based on the predicted crowds that show up. In other words, the crowds for you today might be as they were when "they were dead" years back. If WDW runs the attractions at an 1/8 of the potential capacity then even a former "light" day can feel like Christmas. It would be interesting to know the truth.

In any case, the bottom like is you are a loyal dedicated customer who became so due to past experiences and for your perception to turn 180 degrees is very telling to the reality of the parks operations.

Personally - and I say this almost every post. The over-aggressive planning sucks the joy out of the WDW park experience. I feel like everything is on "their terms" and not "mine" - the paying guest. It is wearing on me and many people like yourselfs who continue to make these comments. I really don't know that I want Chinese food on a Wednesday three months from now but I better well damn keep that schedule or my lunch option may only be a popcorn bucket at the hub. It's ridiculous. Did I also mention last Jan I stayed on property and the second I was able to get a fastpass - NONE were available for Flight of Passage. Seriously.

And here's the thing - they don't care. They will triple the prices and if enough people show up then who cares. They make . money.

Sorry my friend. Please try and have a good time. And my I suggest Disneyland Paris? None of this nonsense exists over there and you can just show up and enjoy the day organically. People say the same for Disneyland.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Thank you for sharing your comments. I feel you have summarized perfectly the current state of affairs.
We had a similar experience a couple years ago. During that trip we went to universal for a day and I felt like we could *exhale*. The theme park experience was what I remembered in the pre-magic band years. The freedom and flexibly aspect of the Universal day was a joy.

At Universal we simply felt like seeing an attraction because we just happened to be in that area and guess what ... we just wandered in the line and EXPERIENCED the attraction. The food Service at the Simspons area was top notch. We went through the line, choosing our (very good) food and at the register, a team member took our trays and walked us to a clean table with a "reserve" sign. He placed our items on the table, took the reserve sign and asked us what else he could bring to the table. I think he actually got our fountain drinks and more napkins to boot. It was completely stress-free and lovely. And in complete contrast to the new WDW norm.

WDW needs to take a hard and uncomfortable look at the mess these Magic Bands have created. Or perhaps it is simply the lack of ride capacity and experiences to absorb the crowds. Perhaps the staffing is reduced as you say based on the predicted crowds that show up. In other words, the crowds for you today might be as they were when "they were dead" years back. If WDW runs the attractions at an 1/8 of the potential capacity then even a former "light" day can feel like Christmas. It would be interesting to know the truth.

In any case, the bottom like is you are a loyal dedicated customer who became so due to past experiences and for your perception to turn 180 degrees is very telling to the reality of the parks operations.

Personally - and I say this almost every post. The over-aggressive planning sucks the joy out of the WDW park experience. I feel like everything is on "their terms" and not "mine" - the paying guest. It is wearing on me and many people like yourselfs who continue to make these comments. I really don't know that I want Chinese food on a Wednesday three months from now but I better well damn keep that schedule or my lunch option may only be a popcorn bucket at the hub. It's ridiculous. Did I also mention last Jan I stayed on property and the second I was able to get a fastpass - NONE were available for Flight of Passage. Seriously.

And here's the thing - they don't care. They will triple the prices and if enough people show up then who cares. They make . money.

Sorry my friend. Please try and have a good time. And my I suggest Disneyland Paris? None of this nonsense exists over there and you can just show up and enjoy the day organically. People say the same for Disneyland.

Do you think they will ditch the Magic bands for the FastPass availability and keep it for everything else? They have there good points but a lot of the walk ons ( pirates and haunted Mansion) have huge waits. It’s nice Ce to use to get into the parks, pay for things, door key and so on.
Oh, we live close enough to drive over to the parks and see all of the mass chaos. We said if we moved away we would never go back. We experienced the overplanning back in December of 2015 and it took the fun out of it.

 

[mikejs78]

Do you think they will ditch the Magic bands for the FastPass availability and keep it for everything else? They have there good points but a lot of the walk ons ( pirates and haunted Mansion) have huge waits. It’s nice Ce to use to get into the parks, pay for things, door key and so on.

I don't think they will not do I think it's the core problem (although it is a minor factor). Rather I think it's more related to increasing crowds over the past decade coupled with lack of ride capacity to meet those crowds.

And I am fine if they keep the magic bands for FastPass - just get rid of the pre booking windows and make it same day like with Disneyland's MaxPass. Hell, even charge me $10/day.

As far as dining, it's always been the case that some restaurants require huge pre booking windows. That's not new, I remember my parents making reservations 6 months in advance as a kid in the 80s...

 

[HauntedPirate]

I don't think they will not do I think it's the core problem (although it is a minor factor). Rather I think it's more related to increasing crowds over the past decade coupled with lack of ride capacity to meet those crowds.

And I am fine if they keep the magic bands for FastPass - just get rid of the pre booking windows and make it same day like with Disneyland's MaxPass. Hell, even charge me $10/day.

As far as dining, it's always been the case that some restaurants require huge pre booking windows. That's not new, I remember my parents making reservations 6 months in advance as a kid in the 80s...

The only dining option that I specifically remember requiring a 6-month booking commitment pre-Disney Dining Plan was Cinderella's Royal Table.

And I like the idea of ditching the pre-booking window for FP and going to a MaxPass-style option.

Remember when Disney treated all guests equally once they entered the parks, as far as rides and attractions go?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We bought at Saratoga in 2010 for around $79/point. Those were crazy days. Our first DVC trip we ended up getting 4 out of our 8 days at AKL Concierge level. We haven't had a problem getting other resorts at the 7 month mark now, but I guess it depends where you want to stay (I seem to always be able to get AK no problem (not concierge level..that looks like it was a once-in-a-lifetime-stars-alligned perfectly scenario), but last year we split stay Poly and Boardwalk). TBH, we've only stayed at Saratoga for 4 days since we bought back in 2010.

Same here...

Just stayed 3/5 at grand floridian and beach club.

A lot of the availability complaints are due to rigidity. I don't love moving...but I'll do it if it means means better locations...

And I have no problem using the wait list either...nobody seems to want to do that now.

And I have no interest in the traditional packed weeks...I see a lot of people that seem to want the best spot during the school vacations for a solid week+...
...yeah, so common sense isn't that common.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The only dining option that I specifically remember requiring a 6-month booking commitment pre-Disney Dining Plan was Cinderella's Royal Table.

And I like the idea of ditching the pre-booking window for FP and going to a MaxPass-style option.

Remember when Disney treated all guests equally once they entered the parks, as far as rides and attractions go?

Correct...cindys was the only one you had to get on the phone at 180
Days out at 7 am to get...all others were completely flexible...

As far as your last statement...well...

Seems like we are peeing in the wind now...it's gone.
But I'm amused when I'm told repeatedly (including today) that access to rides is a luxury or convenience with fee...like that's written in a lost Adam smith theory book that was just recently discovered and published on the internet from a Russian Facebook account...

 

[mikejs78]

Correct...cindys was the only one you had to get on the phone at 180
Days out at 7 am to get...all others were completely flexible...

As far as your last statement...well...

Seems like we are peeing in the wind now...it's gone.
But I'm amused when I'm told repeatedly (including today) that access to rides is a luxury or convenience with fee...like that's written in a lost Adam smith theory book that was just recently discovered and published on the internet from a Russian Facebook account...

Hoop de Doo was another one that required reservations 180 days out.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hoop de Doo was another one that required reservations 180 days out.

Not always...on Easter or thanksgiving? Yes...

But cindys was 365 days a year

 

[HauntedPirate]

Correct...cindys was the only one you had to get on the phone at 180
Days out at 7 am to get...all others were completely flexible...

As far as your last statement...well...

Seems like we are peeing in the wind now...it's gone.
But I'm amused when I'm told repeatedly (including today) that access to rides is a luxury or convenience with fee...like that's written in a lost Adam smith theory book that was just recently discovered and published on the internet from a Russian Facebook account...

Yep, unfortunately that ship has sailed. But so many people visiting the parks these days don't have that context, that frame of reference. And most probably don't care as long as little Chuckie and Suzie get to see Mickey and Elsa and ride 7DMT.

I remember having to get up at 5:30am (I'm in the Central time zone) so I could be awake and calling a few minutes before 6am to get a table at Cinderella's... Ahh... the good ol' days...

We've never done Hoop De Doo, it's just not been something we've ever cared enough to want to do.

 

[mikejs78]

Not always...on Easter or thanksgiving? Yes...

But cindys was 365 days a year

I remember going in October of 1988. My dad tried to make reservations at Hoop De Doo for our trip (we were going for 8 days) right when the booking window opened, and he was unable to for any days of our trip. We were able to get the Luau and the Top of the World dinner show with ease, but not Hoop De Doo. He kept trying every day, and we finally got it about 2 months before our trip due to a cancellation.