The War Is Over.. Congrats Roy Disney

[peter11435]

And Yes.. Eisner should be blamed for the things that go bad, especially because of his decisions.. As well as Roy and who ever else is in charge... People need to be held accountable.. Eisner was surrounding himself with people who would not dare hold him responsible.. Roy called him out.. he exposed the board for what it was, Eisner cronies.... The board, knowing their credibility was coming under fire, did the proper thing in removing the CEO from being the chairperson... Roy may have taken it too far in attacking the choice of Iger, and he realized it, thus prompting this resolution...

Your absolutly correct. he should be blamed for things that go bad, but he should also recieve credit for things that go well.

Roy is not an angel in this situation, but defending Eisner and saying how great he was for Disney and over looking his misdeeds is like saying a certain German dictator was great for Germany, but, he made a few mistakes...

Comparing Eisner to that "certain German dictator" is a bit extreme don't you think.

 

[peter11435]

Peter dude... yes Eisner should be held accountable, as any CEO should.. Eisner also received credit when credit was due when he did the good things for the company. So, no my argument is not one sided...

Maybe from you, but many on these boards continue to claim that all bad in the company was a result of Eisner, and all good was the result of Wells.

 

[askmike1]

Eisner also received credit when credit was due when he did the good things for the company.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. A lot of people tend to blame Eisner for everything and give him credit for nothing. The following are some of the things I am talking about. The action is paired with the person that these people mostly give credit to. Now, I am not saying these people don't deserve credit, but if you are going to blame little things on Eisner, you also have to credit little things with Eisner.

Disneyland's beautification-Matt Ouimet
ABC's resurgance-Stephan McPherson & Anne Sweeny
Pirates of the Caribbean-Bruckheimer
Pixar Films-Mr. Cook
Popular Theme Park Rides (ie. Soarin' TT, M:S,Philharmagic,etc.)-Jay Rasulo

What I don't get is that if a drop of paint is missing in Magic Kingdom, people are quick to blame Eisner...yet most don't credit Eisner for Disneyland's entire makeover. I'm not blaming anyone specific, I'm just saying that I've seen these things around the boards a lot.

-Michael

 

[Rayray]

Disneyland's beautification-Matt Ouimet
ABC's resurgance-Stephan McPherson & Anne Sweeny
Pirates of the Caribbean-Bruckheimer
Pixar Films-Mr. Cook
Popular Theme Park Rides (ie. Soarin' TT, M:S,Philharmagic,etc.)-Jay Rasulo


-Michael

Take this lightly please - I'm not discrediting your entitled opinion...
Do you really give the credit for most of those things to Eisner? I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of the credit, but shouldn't the people you have listed next to each accomplishment get most of it. From my point of view, these people kept Eisner from going under earlier. Didn't alot of these feats take place after the major bulk of Eisner criticism started? But hey, it's just my opinion.

 

[Disneyland1970]

That’s because regardless of what some on here read in Disneywar Roy is only interested in money. He does not care about the company’s values and integrity all he wants is to make more money, and as a large stock holder the Comcast takeover would have been a payoff for him.

Please cite your source for this?

 

[lebeau]

No, I quoted a source. It's actually an un-biased source too.

Tazhughes, I'm sorry you think I'm attacking anyone. I fail to see where I attacked someone (other than Roy, that is). But, I still disagree. Roy resigned three times on his own. I'm not sure how this can be up for discussion when it is well documented.

Just because you cite a source, that doesn't mean you've presented those facts in the proper context. You imply that Roy should have been asked to resign based on the expansion and implosion of the animation division. But that ignores the context of the situation - which was that the industry as a whole was going through an implosion.

You only seem interested in taking a look at individual facts that support your grudge against Roy Disney. But if you would look at the context surrounding these facts, you'd get a much better look at the larger picture.

I'm not suggesting that your opinion of Roy is baseless. But you just don't seem willing to look at anything unless it paints Roy as a villain.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Take this lightly please - I'm not discrediting your entitled opinion...
Do you really give the credit for most of those things to Eisner? I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of the credit, but shouldn't the people you have listed next to each accomplishment get most of it. From my point of view, these people kept Eisner from going under earlier. Didn't alot of these feats take place after the major bulk of Eisner criticism started? But hey, it's just my opinion.

I understand what he is saying, and he is right... people, including myself are quick to blame Eisner... However, I don't blame him for a piece of paint chipping.. I blame him because he demands budget cuts which leads to not enough paint to cover those chips (using an example, not saying Disney doesn't have enough paint to cover those chips).... I also give him credit for approving the huge budget to get EE built, to get AK build (even though a some of the ideas were put on the back burner due to budget problems)... I give him credit for allowing MGM Studios to be built (even though forced to be completed before Universal)... Eisner gets his credit from me...

You know who does deserve the blame if the chipped paint isn't touched up?? The people in control of that attraction....

 

[Captain Chaos]

Just because you cite a source, that doesn't mean you've presented those facts in the proper context. You imply that Roy should have been asked to resign based on the expansion and implosion of the animation division. But that ignores the context of the situation - which was that the industry as a whole was going through an implosion.

You only seem interested in taking a look at individual facts that support your grudge against Roy Disney. But if you would look at the context surrounding these facts, you'd get a much better look at the larger picture.

I'm not suggesting that your opinion of Roy is baseless. But you just don't seem willing to look at anything unless it paints Roy as a villain.

Exactly, but let's be fair here... People do the same thing when they bash Eisner...

 

[peter11435]

double post sorry

 

[peter11435]

Please cite your source for this?

I already did, and it should be clear to you regardless. Roy publicly supported the Comcast takeover bid. A takeover that would have left the company in ruins after Comcast broke the company apart and sold off everything they didn’t want (virtually everything except ESPN and ABC). Secondly if you would have actually read through what Roy listed as his goals all revolved around maximizing profit and shareholder return. He does not care about the company nearly as much as he cares about his money.

 

[ThreeCircles]

Just because you cite a source, that doesn't mean you've presented those facts in the proper context. You imply that Roy should have been asked to resign based on the expansion and implosion of the animation division. But that ignores the context of the situation - which was that the industry as a whole was going through an implosion.

You only seem interested in taking a look at individual facts that support your grudge against Roy Disney. But if you would look at the context surrounding these facts, you'd get a much better look at the larger picture.

I'm not suggesting that your opinion of Roy is baseless. But you just don't seem willing to look at anything unless it paints Roy as a villain.

How odd... If you replace "Roy" with Eisner it paints an amazing picture of you.

And worse, you drone on and on about "facts" from a "source" that you yourself admit is biased!

Bad science.

Oh, and I'm still waiting on the "proof" that Eisner wanted to close Feature Animation when he became CEO.

 

[lebeau]

How odd... If you replace "Roy" with Eisner it paints an amazing picture of you.

I have said on several occassions that Eisner enjoyed a great deal of success at Disney. I have also pointed out Roy's failures and mistakes.

I'd hardly call my posts one-sided.

 

[ThreeCircles]

I have said on several occassions that Eisner enjoyed a great deal of success at Disney. I have also pointed out Roy's failures and mistakes.

I'd hardly call my posts one-sided.

Hmmm... OK, and if you re-read my posts on this thread I'm sure you would see that I too disagree with some of the things Eisner had a hand in.

To my recolection, about the only negative thing you have mentioned about Roy was his HUGE flop of Fantasia 2000. (Nine years to produce a single film? Yikes! Again, no wonder Roy resigned! He must have been very embarrased! :lol: )

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm not saying you are wrong Peter, everyone is entitled to their opinion.. I agree with the Comcast take over it was a bad move for Roy to support it... However, when I think about maximizing profit and shareholder return, i am thinking Disney must put out a terrirfic product.. If they put out a pathetic product, then profits would not maximize and shareholder returns would be low if anything at all... So, therefore, in order to maximize the profits and shareholder return, TWDC would have to release top of the line animated movies, top of the line live action movies, and make their parks top of the line? They would have to provide a service and make it a service people would want to visit over and over again (theme parks, vacations), buy more of(clothing, toys, etc) and see/buy (movies, DVD releases).... I don't see anything wrong with that.. Do you??

Put it this way.. If Disney was not to make money (profits) then no EE, no AK, no refurb, heck, NO COMPMANY!!!!!

 

[lebeau]

To my recolection, about the only negative thing you have mentioned about Roy was his HUGE flop of Fantasia 2000. )

Can I help it if that's the only mistake the man has ever made in his whole life?!?!

(just kidding)

 

[Disneyland1970]

"Paint is cheap in the big picture of things and it was never an issue at any Disney park until ME took over."
Was it, or did you never look for it? Before SD started, not many people complained about these things (yet things were no different).

[ -Michael

Well yes people have been complaining about the decline in the parks for the past 10 years or so. You never had to look before because it wasn't there. The budgets were there also. I doubt you were old enough to notice these things.

 

[askmike1]

I understand what he is saying, and he is right... people, including myself are quick to blame Eisner... However, I don't blame him for a piece of paint chipping.. I blame him because he demands budget cuts which leads to not enough paint to cover those chips (using an example, not saying Disney doesn't have enough paint to cover those chips).... I also give him credit for approving the huge budget to get EE built, to get AK build (even though a some of the ideas were put on the back burner due to budget problems)... I give him credit for allowing MGM Studios to be built (even though forced to be completed before Universal)... Eisner gets his credit from me...

You know who does deserve the blame if the chipped paint isn't touched up?? The people in control of that attraction....

That's exactly what I'm syaing. Do I think he should be credited for when something gets painted? No. He had nothing to directly do with it. However, he should not be blamed if a bit of paint has chipped. He is not directly responsible for it. I'm not saying anyone on this thread has said things like this, but I've heard similar things elsewhere on the board.

-Michael

 

[askmike1]

Also, one more question...why the heck is this thread in the WDW Parks News and Rumors section? Wouldn't it make more sense to be in the Disney Co. News section?

-Michael

 

[Captain Chaos]

That's exactly what I'm syaing. Do I think he should be credited for when something gets painted? No. He had nothing to directly do with it. However, he should not be blamed if a bit of paint has chipped. He is not directly responsible for it. I'm not saying anyone on this thread has said things like this, but I've heard similar things elsewhere on the board.

-Michael

I'm glad we see eye to eye with the subject in the quote above... And I have read people bashing Eisner for chipped paint to dirty bathrooms.. Budget cuts and lay off could have a little somethng to do with it.. However, it does not take away from the fact that the people in control of those areas should realize what needs to be fixed and fix it... I'm sure if there was paint chipped on DUmbo, Eisner would never even hear about it... However, it is blown up on these boards as BAD SHOW and THE DECLINE OF DISNEY MAGIC...

There was also a post in here about CMs not making a lot of money compared to executives, and that executives deserve the salary they get.. And I believe the post said that CMs can be replaced...

Ok.. here is my opinion about that... CMs make the magic at Disney World and Disneyland happen.... If it wasn't for these HARD WORKING people, then the magic wouldn't be there... Let one of the executives put in a Tigger suit.. let's see how they create the magic and bring Tigger to life... They wouldn't be able too.... CMs can be fired and replaced ina heartbeat person wise.. But I believe it takes a special person to be a Cast Member and entertain thousands of people a day and continue to smile about it... With that being said... Disney has set the wages for these positions, so you have to know how much you are going to get paid BEFORE you either interview or accept the job... You can complain all you want about it, but you know before hand... Take my firm for instance.. I do not believe our managers should make as mucha s they do for sitting on their butt all day and barely even knowing the departments policies, proceedures, and work load.. it is us, the associates, who makes the company run and get the work down, not them.. Yet they get the big salaries... Nature of any business....

 

[lebeau]

Some excerpts from Disneywar on the subject of Roy "saving" the animation division:

This exerpt takes place as Eisner was taking control of Disney. Stan Kinsey became aware of Pixar in its infant stages and suggested that Disney buy it up:

"Card Walker had balked at the notion that a machine could replace hand drawing. But now Kinsey had another chance. He started to explain how computer technology could replicate the kind of animation that required seventeen cameramen for the opening scene of Pinochio. He was disappointed when Wells cut him off. "We're going to shut down animation," he said bluntly. "It's not making any money." New management seemed far more interested in his plans to cut costs and Kinsey didn't think the name of the operation he was working with even registered: Pixar Advanced Computer Graphics."

This exerpt talks about Katzenberg's conversion to believing in animation:

"Far from wanting to shut down animation, as Eisner and Wells had initially proposed, Katzenberg began to see it as a unique Disney asset. Just because Disney had failed to generate a new classic since Walt's death didn't mean it never would again. In any event, Eisner had told him to keep Roy happy, and Roy believed in animation."

On the hiring of Peter Schnieder as Katzenberg's assistant:

"Schneider got the job, but he sensed that Eisner had little interest in either him or the money-losing animation division. Eisner was far more interested in reviving Disney's live action film and television divisions, businesses he knew well from his stint at Paramount...

As live action film production ramped up, office space grew tight, especially in the coveted area close to Eisner and Wells. So the animators had to move. The decision was highly symbollic, since Walt's office had always been in the animation building at the heart of the studio. Roy objected, but finally agreed when Eisner personally promised that they'd be brought back to the Burbank campus as soon as a new building could be built...

Despite assurances that the move was temporary, the animators concluded that their days were probably numbered. Apart from Basil, they had so little work to occupy them that they passed their time with chair races, cell sliding contests and Trivial Pursuit games."

more to come...