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The War Is Over.. Congrats Roy Disney
- Thread starter debndon
- Start date
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
lebeau said:
OK I didn't know that... But, could they handle it day in and day out?? WHat do you think they would do? Would they give up an air conditioned office for a costume in the Florida or California heat? Not for all the money in the world..
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
After reading the post about Eisner wanting to close animation.. It seems Frank Wells was part of that decision as well.. And the vision they had back then about computers graphic images smells awfully a lot like what Disney is doing now doesn't it?
Close down Florida's animation department. Lay off some animators... Start making movies with computer graphics (Chicken Little) and start using computer graphics for Mickey, Donald, Goofy (commericals about the 50'ith celebration)....
That passage makes it sound like Eisner caved into keeping animation around to appease Roy... Good thing WDFA had a few big hits during the 90's or animation may have been dissolved... Traditional animation as we know it is a dead art form... Computer graphics are taking over...
Close down Florida's animation department. Lay off some animators... Start making movies with computer graphics (Chicken Little) and start using computer graphics for Mickey, Donald, Goofy (commericals about the 50'ith celebration)....
That passage makes it sound like Eisner caved into keeping animation around to appease Roy... Good thing WDFA had a few big hits during the 90's or animation may have been dissolved... Traditional animation as we know it is a dead art form... Computer graphics are taking over...
lebeau
Well-Known Member
"After the layoffs and the fiasco of The Black Cauldron, Roy felt he was fighting for the future of animation, which he still believed had the potential to once again be the heart of the company."
on Great Mouse Detective:
"Despite a constant effort to control costs, it was not meeting its $10 million dollar budget. eisner had trouble understanding why a half-hour of television animation could be produced for a half-million dollars, but a ninety-minute Disney feature could not be made for twenty times that. To the Disney animators, this showed a lack of understanding that bordered on contempt...
To most of the animators and to Roy, Mouse Detective became an ominous experiment in cost control. The same low-cost laborers who did television animation performed much of the hand-coloring... While Roy was dismayed by the quality of some of the drawings, he told the animators that they had to go along to show Eisner and Katzenberg that they were "team players".
quoting Eisner at a celebration for Roy Sr:
"'With all that Roy Sr. gave to this company, perhaps his number one legacy to our company is his son, our Roy, who did nothing less than save the company in 1984 - with the help of Stanley Gold, Roy's partner and friend, from the outside, and Ray Watson, the chairman of the company, from the inside.'
Roy, Eisner insisted, deserved the lion's share of the credit for the astounding success of animation. 'The common wisdom was that drawing a movie frame was archaic and too expensive. But Roy bought none of that' which shows 'how insightful and downright gutsy Roy was to insist way back in 1984 that we pour major resources into what most people thought was a moribund, money-losing enterprise that would only be relegated to kids' matinees. Roy understood that animation done right, was magic. And magic is the essence of Disney... We should always remember that we have Roy to thank."
Right from Eisner's mouth! Thank you and I rest my case.
on Great Mouse Detective:
"Despite a constant effort to control costs, it was not meeting its $10 million dollar budget. eisner had trouble understanding why a half-hour of television animation could be produced for a half-million dollars, but a ninety-minute Disney feature could not be made for twenty times that. To the Disney animators, this showed a lack of understanding that bordered on contempt...
To most of the animators and to Roy, Mouse Detective became an ominous experiment in cost control. The same low-cost laborers who did television animation performed much of the hand-coloring... While Roy was dismayed by the quality of some of the drawings, he told the animators that they had to go along to show Eisner and Katzenberg that they were "team players".
quoting Eisner at a celebration for Roy Sr:
"'With all that Roy Sr. gave to this company, perhaps his number one legacy to our company is his son, our Roy, who did nothing less than save the company in 1984 - with the help of Stanley Gold, Roy's partner and friend, from the outside, and Ray Watson, the chairman of the company, from the inside.'
Roy, Eisner insisted, deserved the lion's share of the credit for the astounding success of animation. 'The common wisdom was that drawing a movie frame was archaic and too expensive. But Roy bought none of that' which shows 'how insightful and downright gutsy Roy was to insist way back in 1984 that we pour major resources into what most people thought was a moribund, money-losing enterprise that would only be relegated to kids' matinees. Roy understood that animation done right, was magic. And magic is the essence of Disney... We should always remember that we have Roy to thank."
Right from Eisner's mouth! Thank you and I rest my case.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
dxer07002 said:
Agreed.
Once upon a time I was a movie theater manager. And the CEO of our chain made a point of video taping herself working behind a concession stand and she sent it out to all the theaters. Sure, she could handle 10 minutes with no worries about lines. But I remember joking how she couldn't do it for real.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
"quoting Eisner at a celebration for Roy Sr:
"'With all that Roy Sr. gave to this company, perhaps his number one legacy to our company is his son, our Roy, who did nothing less than save the company in 1984 - with the help of Stanley Gold, Roy's partner and friend, from the outside, and Ray Watson, the chairman of the company, from the inside.'
Roy, Eisner insisted, deserved the lion's share of the credit for the astounding success of animation. 'The common wisdom was that drawing a movie frame was archaic and too expensive. But Roy bought none of that' which shows 'how insightful and downright gutsy Roy was to insist way back in 1984 that we pour major resources into what most people thought was a moribund, money-losing enterprise that would only be relegated to kids' matinees. Roy understood that animation done right, was magic. And magic is the essence of Disney... We should always remember that we have Roy to thank."
Right from Eisner's mouth! Thank you and I rest my case."
Right from the jackass's, I mean horses mouth is more like it...
Seems like Eisner was extremely wrong about animation and ROY, yes, ROY DISNEY, not Jeffrey Kara whatever or Eisner, saved WDFA... Wow... What a turn of events...
"'With all that Roy Sr. gave to this company, perhaps his number one legacy to our company is his son, our Roy, who did nothing less than save the company in 1984 - with the help of Stanley Gold, Roy's partner and friend, from the outside, and Ray Watson, the chairman of the company, from the inside.'
Roy, Eisner insisted, deserved the lion's share of the credit for the astounding success of animation. 'The common wisdom was that drawing a movie frame was archaic and too expensive. But Roy bought none of that' which shows 'how insightful and downright gutsy Roy was to insist way back in 1984 that we pour major resources into what most people thought was a moribund, money-losing enterprise that would only be relegated to kids' matinees. Roy understood that animation done right, was magic. And magic is the essence of Disney... We should always remember that we have Roy to thank."
Right from Eisner's mouth! Thank you and I rest my case."
Right from the jackass's, I mean horses mouth is more like it...
Seems like Eisner was extremely wrong about animation and ROY, yes, ROY DISNEY, not Jeffrey Kara whatever or Eisner, saved WDFA... Wow... What a turn of events...
askmike1
Member
Where exactly in that quote does it ever mention animation? Mr. Eisner said that Roy saved the company. Animation is never mentioned. The company was saved from a hostile takeover (which is quite ironic since Roy supported the most recent one).
Also, I am glad to know that unlike Roy, Diane Disney-Miller will be attending the 17th's festivities. (Al Lutz said so on MiceAge) Even though she is (understandably) mad at Eisner, she at least has her priorities in the right order.
-Michael
Also, I am glad to know that unlike Roy, Diane Disney-Miller will be attending the 17th's festivities. (Al Lutz said so on MiceAge) Even though she is (understandably) mad at Eisner, she at least has her priorities in the right order.
-Michael
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Disneywar on Roy's forced retirement:
"Yes, technically he was (over the mandatory retirement age) since the retirement age was seventy-two and he had just turned seventy-three. But it didn't apply to board members who were also part of management, and he was the head of animation. Disney was famous for the longevity of many of its employees."
"After Bryson spoke to his fellow members of the nomination and governance committee - Lozano, Estrin and Wilson - he reported that the committee remained firm in its determination to force Roy off the board."
About the non-enforcement of the retirment policy:
"Of course, we've ignored that rule," Eisner mused in one encounter with Disney executives where he floated the prospect (of forcing Roy out). Indeed, Disney was legendary for not enforcing any mandatory retirment policy. The legendary 'old men' of animation had stayed as long as they liked. John Hench, and Imagineer who helped Walt design Disneyland, was still working until his death at ninety-five. Lucille Martin, Eisner's secretary who had worked for Walt, was careful never to reveal her age but must have been in her eighties. Tom Murphy and Ray Watson (board members at the time) were both seventy-two."
Interesting quotes from Eisner on Roy:
"I can't really blame Roy for Fantasia."
"You know Roy, he doesn't care about money. Roy cares about art."
"Yes, technically he was (over the mandatory retirement age) since the retirement age was seventy-two and he had just turned seventy-three. But it didn't apply to board members who were also part of management, and he was the head of animation. Disney was famous for the longevity of many of its employees."
"After Bryson spoke to his fellow members of the nomination and governance committee - Lozano, Estrin and Wilson - he reported that the committee remained firm in its determination to force Roy off the board."
About the non-enforcement of the retirment policy:
"Of course, we've ignored that rule," Eisner mused in one encounter with Disney executives where he floated the prospect (of forcing Roy out). Indeed, Disney was legendary for not enforcing any mandatory retirment policy. The legendary 'old men' of animation had stayed as long as they liked. John Hench, and Imagineer who helped Walt design Disneyland, was still working until his death at ninety-five. Lucille Martin, Eisner's secretary who had worked for Walt, was careful never to reveal her age but must have been in her eighties. Tom Murphy and Ray Watson (board members at the time) were both seventy-two."
Interesting quotes from Eisner on Roy:
"I can't really blame Roy for Fantasia."
"You know Roy, he doesn't care about money. Roy cares about art."
lebeau
Well-Known Member
askmike1 said:
Right here:
'The common wisdom was that drawing a movie frame was archaic and too expensive. But Roy bought none of that' which shows 'how insightful and downright gutsy Roy was to insist way back in 1984 that we pour major resources into what most people thought was a moribund, money-losing enterprise that would only be relegated to kids' matinees. Roy understood that animation done right, was magic. And magic is the essence of Disney... We should always remember that we have Roy to thank."
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Quotes from Eisner himself huh? If Disneywar was so biased and not based on truth, Eisner coudl sue for libel.. Since he hasn't, I take it everything in the book is truth... So, Eisner credits Roy Disney for saving the company and even admits they overlooked the bylaws in the past about passing the age limit on the board.. Hmm, interesting indeed.. Sounds more and more to me that Roy Disney was a threat to Eisner, or at least, Eisner felt he was.. Therefore Roy must go...
lebeau
Well-Known Member
dxer07002 said:
There's plenty more.
I intend to dig up some of the material on Eisner's compensation compared to other CEOs when I have more time.
And yes, Eisner participated extensively in the book. The author describes numerous interviews with him. And yes, if he was misquoted or mischaracterized, he could have sued for libel but chose not to. And yes, the facts in the book are unbiased as they are a matter of public record - often a matter of court record given the very public lawsuits against Disney involving Katzenberg and Ovitz.
I highly recommend the book to anyone with even a passing interest in this thread. It's exceptionally comprehensive.
askmike1
Member
That link I gave before with forbes shows everything. The amount Eisner made in the last 9 years equals what one CEO made in 2002.lebeau said:
There is a difference between unbiased and facts. Many things can contain facts and yet be biased. For instance take two newspapers.
A: "In an amazing win George W. Bush wins the election with 286 electoral votes."
B: "In a big upset, George W. Bush wins the election with 286 electoral votes."
Both provide the exact same facts, yet they are biased.
-Michael
lebeau
Well-Known Member
askmike1 said:
To carry your example one step further, it is a fact that George Bush won by 286 electoral votes.
The phrasing may show a bias, but the facts are facts. I agree that Disneywar shows a bit of a bias. But the facts remain and the book is full of facts.
As to the compensation, I'll post more later and let people decide for themselves if your link told the whole story.
ThreeCircles
Member
Oh my. You have not given any sources! You've provided an excerpt from a book. Just because an author (who has been declared as being biased by yourself) wrote something hardly makes it true.
:lol:
:lol:
DisneyRoxMySox
Well-Known Member
This is the thread that never ends...
it just go's on and on my friends...
some people started writing? it...
not knowing what it was...
it just go's on and on my friends...
some people started writing? it...
not knowing what it was...
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
ThreeCircles said:
The source?? Michael Eisner himself... There are direct quotes from your buddy Michael... Direct quotes my friend, direct quotes... Again, if Eisner did not say those things or do anything that book portrays he did, there would be one heck of a lawsuit going on right now..
You asked him to provide proof.. Well the proof is right there in Eisner's own words... And I still have yet to see you provide proof Eisner did not want to close animation.. I still have not seen your proof Roy is unstable.. Several resignations does not proof one unstable... Get his medical records to prove he is unstable... Ohh yea, get proof that Roy was out only for money and Eisner is the king of all CEOs...
askmike1
Member
A) There's just one thing missing...context. If I say that on 9/11, 4 planes crashed...well that is true, but it doesn't offer any context. No one book can offer all the context. That's the beauty of having multiple sources.dxer07002 said:
B) SD's original bumper sticker (and banner ad) specifically said "Goodbye Michael...Bring Back Roy." Roy did not leave until he was going to be forced to.
-Michael
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
askmike1 said:
And why should Roy leave? Because of his age? When Eisner himself said they made exceptions before.... The board was forcing Roy's hand by refusing to allow him to continue on the board, so he resigned.... Where was he wrong for challenging the board, Eisner, and the new CEO selection? Does that make Roy a bad person? No it doesn't.
But he did go overboard with a lawsuit that really had no chance of surviving in court.
What I am realizing more and more after all these posts, Eisner and Disney both had huge egos and neither wanted their ego hurt...
askmike1
Member
Well, to that I ask why should Roy be exempt from the rules? Does the last name give him some added talent? Even he did not like the shareholder proposal that forced a Disney on the board. (All though, as Jim Hill said, it could have just been a mischivious plan to keep Diane out of the company) If the name "Disney" is so important than why did he kick out Walt's daughter and son-in-law out of the company? If he's a true Disney, then why will he not be at Disneyland's 50th? Walt's daughter will be.dxer07002 said:
-Michael
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
You make some good points about Roy and not wanting a shareholder proposal about a Disney being on the board....
Now, should Roy be exempt from the bylaws, no... Could the board have made an exception.. Of course... They didn't and therefore forced Roy's hand.. He was either going to be forced out or he would leave on his own terms.. He left on his own terms... If your place of work told you they were going to fire you in 5 months, would you stay or resign? I know I would resign.
Roy is not the be all end all of TWDC... He made plenty of mistakes.. I think that has been covered here enough.. As well as pointing out Eisner's mistakes.. Both men have an inflated ego and well, there was a clash.. Maybe Roy had great ideas for the company his uncle founded, maybe his ideas would have been terrible.. We will never know... We do know about Eisner's ideas and how successful some were and how terrible some were..
The job is now Iger's... He soothed over relations with Roy and Stanley and continues to clean up Eisner's mess... I give Iger credit for this and he has my support as a Disney fan as well as a SHAREHOLDER...
Now, should Roy be exempt from the bylaws, no... Could the board have made an exception.. Of course... They didn't and therefore forced Roy's hand.. He was either going to be forced out or he would leave on his own terms.. He left on his own terms... If your place of work told you they were going to fire you in 5 months, would you stay or resign? I know I would resign.
Roy is not the be all end all of TWDC... He made plenty of mistakes.. I think that has been covered here enough.. As well as pointing out Eisner's mistakes.. Both men have an inflated ego and well, there was a clash.. Maybe Roy had great ideas for the company his uncle founded, maybe his ideas would have been terrible.. We will never know... We do know about Eisner's ideas and how successful some were and how terrible some were..
The job is now Iger's... He soothed over relations with Roy and Stanley and continues to clean up Eisner's mess... I give Iger credit for this and he has my support as a Disney fan as well as a SHAREHOLDER...