The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
I wouldn't go out on a limb here and say that Mermaid was/is an absolute pinnacle to quality and attention to detail, but, I also wouldn't call it HORRIBLE either. It has a couple of impressive animatronics, good music could be considered pleasant even if not seen as great. I enjoyed it when I saw it, but, to your point, I have no real compulsion to see it again.


You're asking the wrong culture here. Patience, I believe, is currently under consideration to be removed from dictionaries as a word that no longer has any relevance.
The last sentence was a joke, not to be taken seriously. Everyone is so literal these days.
If it didn't happen yesterday, it ain't going to happen.

Yes because Disney sure is throwing up these new attractions at a break neck pace. But as a support for an opinion posted as fact its of a similar level of bollockary as the original post, corporate loyalist wishful thinking. A bit like the Potters past it mince.
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Apart from your ubber corporate loyalty what tangible evidence do you have to support this opinion passing as fact?
None apparently. It would appear he's going through a phase of trying to pose as an insider now (whether to troll, get attention or both). It has become quite a popular thing as of the last few years, what with the ThemeParkOne and DisneyConstruction23 types joining and posing with "insider info" and telling people to be patient when their claims can't be backed up or elaborated upon. He'll also probably be long gone by the time Pandora opens as is usually the case, so there's no need to provide evidence due to the long nature of construction.

It's the equivalent of an imagineer saying the Mine Train will have lots of surprises and characters from the movie. Just PR bull without substance, ignore as usual. There's a whole lot to be afraid of about Pandora, not even including the still negative feelings about the movie and the debate on whether AK should be getting it. The problems are much more severe than that. Budgets are inevitably going to get even more mutilation with the $2.5billion and rising failure of nextgen, and we don't have a powerful Lasseter like figure to ensure the expansion doesn't end up sucking (there's no one of quality involved in this project that I imagine has any political leverage).

Rohde may be a talented imagineer, but he certainly doesn't have any sway in the company given that he has been still unsuccessful in getting executives to approve a fix for the yeti (despite a solution that doesn't require any ride downtime existing according to Martin). Even Tony Baxter had more political power than Rohde and he was forced into semi retirement (AKA fired) for trying to insist on quality. Cameron may be also meticulous with his own projects, but he is an outside to the Disney company and would not have the sort of political sway (knowing where the skeletons in the closet are) that Lasseter has. If they had any power in the matter, we'd be getting a lot more than just a simulator and a C-ticket boat ride. This is already quite obviously a value engineered version, and the plans we've seen were made before the nextgen debacle crashed on them and became a money pit. There are already signs around property and with higher prices that they're trying to cover up the nextgen mess, future projects yet to be built don't bode well budget wise.

The project may be years and years away still and there's little to say whether it will turn out good or bad from a concept form, but the current problems with nextgen and budget cuts elsewhere aren't what i'd call promising. Lot more reasons to be worried than excited. By that time Iger will be gone too and it will be someone else's mess to clean up.

Course it has dear.
This. Potter was built when the movies were still being released. It's popularity will become less rabid, but the series is not in any danger of fading into obscurity. They are still seen as incredibly well written books and will be remembered for a very long time to come as classics (if not forever), regardless of how the fanbase for it in pop culture cools down. Forbidden Journey is beloved not just because of its Harry Potter tie in but because of the inherent ride quality surrounding it.

When I first rode Splash Mountain I hadn't even seen Song of the South or anything related to it, but it quickly became one of my favorite rides despite not knowing anything about the franchise (it's a quality ride whether you know about the source material or not). Indiana Jones hardly has anything currently going on movie wise, but its Disneyland ride continues to be incredibly popular for the same type of reasons. And consider the Haunted Mansion's continued popularity, with absolutely no popularity of other media to drive its lines. Pirates only got a movie tie in in the 21st century, having been open many decades prior to the film and being beloved by all. If you make a good ride, it can stand on its own two feet without the help of a pre-existing franchise. The franchise ties helps to bring in initial crowds, but it's not even necessary in the long run provided the ride is good.
 
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Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Yes because Disney sure is throwing up these new attractions at a break neck pace. But as a support for an opinion posted as fact its of a similar level of bollockary as the original post, corporate loyalist wishful thinking. A bit like the Potters past it mince.
Yes, but I wasn't talking about content... I was talking about the word Patience and it's definition. It still holds true. It has not become a reality yet. Waiting is going to be necessary. It may turn out great or it may turn out to be laughable, but, none of us know that yet. You, WDWDad13 or myself have a bit of a blocked vision that for some reason makes you determined that it will suck, WDWDad convinced that it will be nirvana, and me to believe that when they do build it, I will judge it then. The glass in my crystal ball is all foggy.
 

Computer Magic

Well-Known Member
IMHO the problem is not the quality over quantity argument.
The price was still high (in the resorts) to create the "Entitled Family".
Where the customer thinks they can have their way at all costs.
because they're so "Precious".
My statement was quantity over quality. By this I was referring to another poster comment about the ticket pricing structure being adjusted to lower the ticket price for multiple days. This gets more people into the park. The fact that MK alone is losing more natural beauty (trees, moat, grass) to concrete (ie the hub expansion) so they can squeeze more people into the park. As strange as it sounds, more people can afford getting into the parks today because of the ticket structure, thus making Disney ''affordable''. For example, a 5 day ticket is $289 and 6 day ticket is $299. So for $10, I can get into a park an extra day. Add that to the DVC they keep pushing. The theme is stay longer for less. Although still an expensive vacation.

I did enjoy your post, I just wanted to clarify my perspective.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
What is your basis for making this statement?
Yes, but I wasn't talking about content... I was talking about the word Patience and it's definition. It still holds true. It has not become a reality yet. Waiting is going to be necessary. It may turn out great or it may turn out to be laughable, but, none of us know that yet. You, WDWDad13 or myself have a bit of a blocked vision that for some reason makes you determined that it will suck, WDWDad convinced that it will be nirvana, and me to believe that when they do build it, I will judge it then. The glass in my crystal ball is all foggy.

I dont know if it will suck be a ground breaking attraction of a well themes pile of mediocrity, Ill make that call after I have experienced it personaly and just because It may not be aimed at me I wouldnt criticise something either if it were a hit with the target demographic and of a standard weve come to expect from one o the industries leading proponents. I was simply questioning the rational behind the statement, given recent evidence on WDWs abilities to deliver attractions at the levels of awesomeness described by the corporate loyalists. If there is evidence to support this I'm sure wed all be delighted. Well Avatar haters excluded.
 

John

Well-Known Member
IMO my opinion Disney is taking a gamble with Avatar, its been so long since it has been in the conscience of pop culture there is no way anybody knows how the new films will go over. No one....even Cameron does not have some sort of guarantee for success. Now does Avatar the attraction have to depend on the film for the attraction/land to be a success? Of course not....as said, a great attraction is a great attraction.

But the reason they build attractions is to draw guest. Take a look at FLE...is there any real increase in attendance? Will SWMT help? Negligible IMO. SO now we have built a major addition with little ROI. Same could happen to Avatar.

As far as potter is concerned, they are working with momentum. They have already have a massive success with Potter 1.0....they went "all-in" with Potter 2.0. They learned from 1.0 that "if we build it....they will come" Potter 2.0 is going to be a smashing hit. For an entire generation Potter is ingrained in them as Disney is ingrained in the generation that mostly populates this thread.....Potter 2.0 is money in the bank for Uni.

Letting the door hit Rowling in the rear as she was walking out the door was and will be the single biggest mistake of the Iger years. If they would have made the deal and executed it as Uni did we wouldn't be talking about MM+.....of course that is IF Disney executed the attraction as Uni did. They could have put it in DHS and that park would be #2 behind MK. Just think how different theis and many other Disney boards would be?

To think Potter is "just a fad" is the ultimate in being blinded from the dust.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I dont know if it will suck be a ground breaking attraction of a well themes pile of mediocrity, Ill make that call after I have experienced it personaly and just because It may not be aimed at me I wouldnt criticise something either if it were a hit with the target demographic and of a standard weve come to expect from one o the industries leading proponents. I was simply questioning the rational behind the statement, given recent evidence on WDWs abilities to deliver attractions at the levels of awesomeness described by the corporate loyalists. If there is evidence to support this I'm sure wed all be delighted. Well Avatar haters excluded.
To be honest, I am not an Avatar hater or lover. I have never seen the film, I know nothing of the story line except they seem to have been holding their breath a long time and have gotten a bluish tinge to their skin. I have no expectations, I couldn't care less about the franchise, but, who knows, if they do it right, and I think that the mule headed, ego driven Mr. Cameron will be instrumental in this part, it could be quite interesting and entertaining. I don't know. I will have to wait. Considering my current age, there is a chance that the rate that Disney progresses, I will not even ever get to see it. But, there are more important things in life then a theme park attraction, so it's all good.:)
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I still wouldn't put it past Iger and his buddies to have still gone on to create MM+ even had they acquired Potter and built it as well as Uni (accompanied with huge financial success to boot). Disney had a clear wake up call even without Potter, with the massive success of Cars Land. That success SHOULD have been a huge kick in the pants as to what guests want and how they should conduct the business at WDW. Yet it wasn't and we're still in the same situation we were before at WDW. The problem remains that Iger is still CEO and is still a problematic nuisance to building WDW organically. Lasseter had to bully other executives to ensure Cars wasn't value engineered beyond recognition (and at Hong Kong Disneyland they had little choice but to hunker down and add some substance to the cripplingly tiny amount of rides). Even with the successes and the validation of the "if you build it (properly) they will come" philosophy, Iger and his flunkies have shown evidence of not learning their lesson. He probably doesn't even realize there's a problem, or care given that he'll be long gone before Avatar is even finished.

I'll also mention the problem of red tape and imagineering bloat regarding the construction of new projects. Under Iger, it has consistently taken Disney about 5-8 times the amount of money as Universal to build theme park attractions/lands that don't even touch what Universal has managed from a quality perspective. If Disney was somehow able to make a deal to get Potter done and built it as well as Universal, it would have cost them at least 5-10 times as much as it cost Universal (assuming their imagineers even had the talent necessary to ensure it was done properly in the first place). Universal's creative department have proven themselves as both incredibly talented (likely because a lot of them used to work as Disney imagineers and learned from some of the old guard) as well as building things fast and cost efficiently (at least compared to what Disney has become, there may even be bloat and red tape in Universal but it's nowhere near as bad as Disney now is).

To be honest, I am not an Avatar hater or lover. I have never seen the film, I know nothing of the story line except they seem to have been holding their breath a long time and have gotten a bluish tinge to their skin. I have no expectations, I couldn't care less about the franchise, but, who knows, if they do it right, and I think that the mule headed, ego driven Mr. Cameron will be instrumental in this part, it could be quite interesting and entertaining. I don't know. I will have to wait. Considering my current age, there is a chance that the rate that Disney progresses, I will not even ever get to see it. But, there are more important things in life then a theme park attraction, so it's all good.:)
I would like to state that while I have seen the movie and consider it to be a meh film from the story and character perspective, it has a lot to praise in regards to its visuals. That CAN be done correctly in a theme park scenario with the right circumstances to be fair (proper budget, appropriate park placement, good talent and direction behind it etc). I expect the land to look very pretty given the movie's visuals and the talented imagineers working on it. My concerns are for the actual substance in the rides plus potential future budget cuts. I don't think either Cameron or Rohde have any decent political leverage in the Disney company (unlike Lasseter) to be able to avoid potential budget cuts and imposed value engineering from bean counters. I am aware of Rohde's talents as a creative along with Cameron's meticulousness with his own movie projects, but that's not likely to be enough to save the project if Disney's budget trimmers come along to mutilate things.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Potter has already slowed down in popularity quite a bit. It peaked at the end of book 6, leading to book 7 which dropped in 2008.

And that Avatar merch is really flying off the shelves...or did it ever?

When did Avatar peak? When it was still in the the theatre? There is 1 avatar movie made with two others on the way vs Harry Potter with 7 books and 8 movies, and a new spin off, 'Fanatastic Beasts..' that they announced will be a trilogy. I think its safe to say Uni got the better deal. LOL.

Disney is building an entire land devoted to Avatar and its ONE movie. SMH. If they only had a franchise that was as popular as Potter and already had 6 movies and tons of books and a HUGE fan base and merchandise that people actually like and they could build a land with that...oh wait.... Igers ego > Star Wars Land. Or you could say... Disneys financial slavery to NGE > Star Wars Land.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
Yep, Georgie K needs another revenue increase to cover for NGE/MM+.

If I were him, I would have had the balls to just make it an even $20 and get more. At this point, what difference does it really make?

The main difference would be faster toll booth transactions, speeding up entry into the parks (so guests can spend more money). Most everyone has a $20, why make them wait to get $3 change back?
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I would like to state that while I have seen the movie and consider it to be a meh film from the story and character perspective, it has a lot to praise in regards to its visuals. That CAN be done correctly in a theme park scenario with the right circumstances to be fair (proper budget, appropriate park placement, good talent and direction behind it etc). I expect the land to look very pretty given the movie's visuals and the talented imagineers working on it. My concerns are for the actual substance in the rides plus potential future budget cuts. I don't think either Cameron or Rohde have any decent political leverage in the Disney company (unlike Lasseter) to be able to avoid potential budget cuts and imposed value engineering from bean counters. I am aware of Rohde's talents as a creative along with Cameron's meticulousness with his own movie projects, but that's not likely to be enough to save the project if Disney's budget trimmers come along to mutilate things.
You could be absolutely correct. Since the Cameron deal has been in negotiations for a long time, I don't think that they want Cameron to be bad mouthing the land and he has the ability to make quite a stink about it if it doesn't turn out the way he envisions it. As for Rohde's, I wouldn't be surprised to see this as his last big gig for Disney. I think he is on the way out, like Tony Baxter and others. I'm sure he is a royal pain in the butt to the suits and he didn't really deliver the expected results from Animal Kingdom. Beautiful park, but it isn't packing them in either. I sometimes wonder if the old "edutainment" aspect isn't doing to DAK what it did in Epcot. In other words, I don't think he has any power anymore and Cameron in the only hope.
 

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