The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Hang on, he really used the same words?
No that wording was my own joke on the situation, but that is effectively the message being communicated regardless. Iger has a $2.5+ billion disaster on his hands with the magicband garbage (how much is it now?), and his short term solution is to further slash and mutilate operations budgets in an attempt to sweep the mess under the rug. Maintenance is getting ever worse (now even Disneyland is reportedly beginning to show signs of decay again) and any new attractions/expansions probably aren't going to fare well once their budgets have gone through the bean counters' slimy hands. I don't see how they can keep this mess quiet though no matter how much they cut, the budget has gotten wildly out of control with still no end in sight and there are no signs that it's going to be able to start being majorly profitable for them in the way Iger and his flunkies promised the board...

Eisner was the guy who made the final call on Matt. Period. ... And asking if ME '' legitimately cared about the. state of the parks?'' seems to suggest that you think he didn't. That is, to use an oldtimers phrase, utter malarkey. Of course he cared. No one forced him into saying 'I'd really like to put a lousy exec in charge of Anaheim, but the press has forced my hand due to those damn Lutz followers so I have to hire a great qualified guy.'' I am sorta curious as to the ''disastrous safety inspections'' you mention. What exactly are you talking about?
I don't know whether he did or didn't care about the parks in the end. I get the impression that he did initially care up until around 1994. My impression as a child of that era was that he enjoyed the things his company was creating (it was neat to see him get on TV to talk about new rides or even introduce the Wonderful World of Disney movies). But I also realize that people can change (for better or for worse and it can happen no matter what age you are) and sometimes lose interest in (or even turn against) things we used to love. So no I didn't know how Eisner personally felt about the parks in the latter half of his time as CEO. Given the bad conditions the parks were in along with the poor quality of new attractions (in stark contrast to the fantastic condition of the parks and amazing new rides in the first half of his reign), I assumed he lost interest in the parks or something during the latter half of his reign. I assumed something happened to change him. Whether it was due to Wells' death, or the failure of Disneyland Paris financially, or heck even the surgery he went through (i've heard of people who have changed due to health problems). If i'm wrong then you've just corrected me, but something definitely seems to have happened to put a damper on park quality right around that general vicinity of time. And that shift in quality ended up eventually affecting other aspects of the company such as movies and TV.

The disastrous safety inspections I was referring to are in regards to the deaths of several guests on Disneyland attractions. Big Thunder and Columbia for example were apparently found out to be caused by improper maintenance or operation (and if there's another story to that then I am not aware of it, it was reported by mainstream media to be caused by poor maintenance or improper operation of rides). Possibly other issues as well in other attractions. I've heard Space Mountain wasn't in great condition in 2000 when one of the vehicles lost a wheel. Accidents can always happen, but some were definitely preventable with proper maintenance. And that was clearly lacking for quite a long time before Eisner took the initiative to put Ouimet in charge of cleaning the place up for the 50th.

I see the problems that happened during that era kind of like a sort of parent-children situation (though obviously much more complex and difficult to handle of course). Heck any situation with a hierarchy of power could be compared to a parent-child situation. Where Eisner (and now Iger) represents the supervising parent, and the park managers (among other executives under Eisner) are the children. While it's often the kid directly responsible when they misbehave (and they lie about it to avoid being caught just like the executives at Disney) a lot of the problems with the kids can be traced back to the parent (the leader in charge). Even if the parent didn't deliberately raise their kids to misbehave and had good intentions, it's still a part of their job to properly police and discipline their children when necessary to keep them in line, and to see through their deception when they try to get away with it. It requires diligence though.

I'm completely open to changing my views about how directly responsible Eisner was for certain things that happened during his reign. Heck i'm happy to know that the guy cared more than I suspected, I actually liked him as a kid as I said when he'd get on TV to talk about exciting new projects. But i'm still of the opinion that he didn't do enough to prevent issues from occurring and still contributed to the escalation of budget cuts that has now gotten out of control and become the norm. But regardless, your comments have piqued my interest in Eisner again and made me wonder where the Disney company would be today had he been left in charge. Still think that going forward Disney needs some new blood more willing to invest in quality and creativity again. Either way though I think you and I both agree that the current state under Iger is looking absolutely dire, and the future isn't looking better (worse even)...

Budgets absolutely were cut under Eisner. But understand something, they've also been cut under Iger and his cuts have come from already reduced levels over the years. That's the whole fallacy in his business model. He is still following Michael's strategies from the late 90s and early 00s. Back when there was actually somethings that could (arguably or not) be cut.

Iger came to power at Disney because he was a top exec at CapCities/ABC when Disney bought the company. He certainly wasn't handpicked by Michael (or anyone at Disney) because he was such an amazing exec.

By the time, as I stated before, Michael was forced to step down, he had little choice in the matter of who would replace him.
I definitely understand Iger's BS, but I was under the impression Eisner had some hand in his rise to power within Disney's ranks (before he was kicked out). I thought he actively helped Iger gain influence in the company (and other bean counters). Roy Disney Jr liked Iger though didn't he (he certainly seemed to hate Eisner at the end, though only because of stock prices as you said)? Or is that another lie being spread around online?

True. I always say a fish rots from the head down. ... BUT ... the reality of the situation is that lots of folks under him either lied, did bad jobs, were afraid to tell him the truth or just didn't care. Some of that certainly bounces back on him. I really don't know how much because I do understand how small many of these people (some still working at Disney ... how you doing Georgie? :) ) can be.
I'm curious as to what lies were cobbled together to cover up blatantly obvious maintenance problems that Eisner would have little choice but to notice whenever he visited Disneyland (which I assume he did often enough given the comments here). It would have been hard not to notice them and see that there were problems that never used to be there before his budget cuts. It should have raised eyebrows for most meticulous persons running such a quality oriented company. With his appointment of Ouimet it does sound like he did make attempts to correct mistakes, but it was too little too late for him (and we're kind of back in an even bigger mess now that Iger has control).
 
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WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
One final thought on page 310 (one of my favorite area codes), but I don't want people to think I feel Michael Eisner could do no wrong or anything of the sort. While I like him personally and greatly respect what he accomplished professionally, I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that his last 6-7 years weren't largely bad for the company.

But since there is so much he can legitimately be criticized for, I just think people shouldn't bash on things that weren't his fault or largely not.

Again, though, can anyone find a photo of Bob and his kids enjoying New Fantasyland? Perhaps if you email Dr. Blondie or Crazy Gary then they could help provide a publicity shot because we know many exist ... right?
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
No that wording was my own joke on the situation, but that is effectively the message being communicated regardless. Iger has a $2.5+ billion disaster on his hands with the magicband garbage (how much is it now?), and his short term solution is to further slash and mutilate operations budgets in an attempt to sweep the mess under the rug. Maintenance is getting ever worse (now even Disneyland is reportedly beginning to show signs of decay again) and any new attractions/expansions probably aren't going to fare well once their budgets have gone through the bean counters' slimy hands. I don't see how they can keep this mess quiet though no matter how much they cut, the budget has gotten wildly out of control with still no end in sight and there are no signs that it's going to be able to start being majorly profitable for them in the way Iger and his flunkies promised the board...
Regardless of how big the disaster was..
the magicbands can be used to actually do something useful.
example, control the crowds based on price and admission numbers.

the emptier the parks, the cheaper the entrances are.. the magicbands would be updating on realtime the data sent to the machines that sell tickets and modify the prices accordingly
that would make the crowds even up between the parks and reduce the wear of certain parks if they fill way too much compared to others.. this would also balance the CMs requirements and maintenance.

Leaving of course the hopper park packages to the same price due of their nature to dodge these price variations.
so the more full the park is (and the more tickets sold for the day) the more expensive said park gets, and viceversa.


Can't speak for WDW, but I personally have seen Steve Jobs at Disneyland. He had many well-dressed people with him, but none of them looked like security. (And yes, Steve was wearing his turtleneck and jeans) Take that as you will.

not all bodyguards are that obvious.. nor all of them use fancy gadgettry.
 

Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
I think people lose sight of the fact Michael Eisner always insisted on riding/experiencing new park additions (and resort hotels) before guests did. He wanted to see what they would and he wasn't always kind (see my comment on his reaction to Imagination 2.0). Do you think Iger has experienced any of New Fantasyland yet? Has he experienced staying at DAK Lodge for five nights with a MAGIC Band all like a normal guest would? How is that leadership?

Also, @MerlinTheGoat has a looooong post above and while I could argue various points, I'd rather leave him to his opinions (some I agree with, some I do not). But I do want to state again clearly that Matt Ouimet came up as a Michael exec, was instrumental in DCL getting off the ground and becoming a bastion of quality and was elevated to DLR Prez by Michael.

He was forced out of the company by Jay Rasulo for going around him to bring concerns to Bob directly and for letting it be known that he wouldn't mind running P&R one day. Bob allowed Jay to push him out. He is now at Cedar Fair and doing wonders for DL's neighbor, Knott's Berry Farm.
I remember, when Eisner made all the executives, and managers work at WDW, or DLR in lowly positions so they would understand the jobs that people employed by Disney actually endured. I personally knew a man hired as the general manager of a Disney Store. Once or twice he was required to work a week at WDW, one day in janitorial, another day selling Mickey Ice Cream bars, sitting in at Guest Relations, etc.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
One final thought on page 310 (one of my favorite area codes), but I don't want people to think I feel Michael Eisner could do no wrong or anything of the sort. While I like him personally and greatly respect what he accomplished professionally, I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that his last 6-7 years weren't largely bad for the company.

But since there is so much he can legitimately be criticized for, I just think people shouldn't bash on things that weren't his fault or largely not.

Again, though, can anyone find a photo of Bob and his kids enjoying New Fantasyland? Perhaps if you email Dr. Blondie or Crazy Gary then they could help provide a publicity shot because we know many exist ... right?
Should I say it? Should I dare say it? Okay, I'll say it!

Michael Eisner was as close to Walt Disney as you can possibly get. He is no Walt Disney, of course, but he took a special interest in the company, like Walt did. He built the company, continuing where Walt and Roy left off, with a love for creating great new things - like Walt did. Eisner still had the boyish inspiration in him, as Walt did. He was always micro managing projects for not just the short term, but for the long term, and even longer terms. You don't see many executives like that today. Steve Jobs was like that. Elon Musk of Tesler Motors and SpaceX is like that. Musk is currently in merger talks with Apple. One can dream, but that's the kind of executive that Disney needs to recruit for Iger's replacement....
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Nope. If I had wanted to, then I would have. But this thread has caused me to write some meaty posts ... and between them and reading/responding to my pal @ParentsOf4 's long thoughtful postings, there's only so much time in the day. I generally do not post while working either (unlike some others here!)



Eisner was the guy who made the final call on Matt. Period. ... And asking if ME '' legitimately cared about the state of the parks?'' seems to suggest that you think he didn't. That is, to use an oldtimers phrase, utter malarkey. Of course he cared. No one forced him into saying 'I'd really like to put a lousy exec in charge of Anaheim, but the press has forced my hand due to those damn Lutz followers so I have to hire a great qualified guy.'' I am sorta curious as to the ''disastrous safety inspections'' you mention. What exactly are you talking about?

I certainly agree with you that enjoying the parks isn't enough.




Budgets absolutely were cut under Eisner. But understand something, they've also been cut under Iger and his cuts have come from already reduced levels over the years. That's the whole fallacy in his business model. He is still following Michael's strategies from the late 90s and early 00s. Back when there were actually some things that could (arguably or not) be cut.

Iger came to power at Disney because he was a top exec at CapCities/ABC when Disney bought the company. He certainly wasn't handpicked by Michael (or anyone at Disney) because he was such an amazing exec.

By the time, as I stated before, Michael was forced to step down, he had little choice in the matter of who would replace him.




That's fine. You are free to feel however you want (at least until the NSA comes and tells you otherwise). I just look at things in 10 year increments because I now have 40 years (yes, it is scary as hell) of experience visiting WDW.

From 1974 to 1984, the quality was amazing and only got better. EPCOT Center wowed my childhood feelings like no place I had ever been to. I give credit to everyone from Card Walker and Ron Miller to Frank Wells and Michael Eisner and, certainly, Marty Sklar and John Hench.

From 1984 to 1994, the quality was amazing and only got better as WDW expanded like anything was possible. Everything they added, I enjoyed. Everything. And quality across the board remained high, even as price increases became regular.

From 1994 to 2004, I went from the highest of WDW highs (WL and ToT opening in 1994) to still believing they could build the most amazing theme park environments (DAK in 1998) to starting to see holes all around property (never-ending, substance-lacking 25th Anniversary, first resort rooms that were not up to standards, attractions that didn't wow me) to hitting rock bottom (2004) and starting to realize the place wasn't the same, wasn't ever going to be the same, and all the pixie dust in the world wouldn't change it.

From 2004 to 2014, I saw more of the world than in the prior 30 years combined. You be the judge of what that means.




We could go back and forth, but ultimately it's very hard to explain something when people have their minds made up. Eisner saw what he saw, but plenty of what you believe he should have, he didn't. Because by that time TWDC was huge and he had to trust in the people who were reporting to him, many that he placed in their positions, many that he did not. Some told the truth, many did not. Some blamed his 'terrible temper'' for lying. Some didn't. ... Michael wasn't reading fan discussion boards like this one to see how things really were. You can't do that when you run a global entertainment empire. ... He absolutely did see to it that things were done when they crossed his radar. The quote I gave you from him about the shape of DL came about 8-9 months before he made Matt Ouimet the new DLR Prez.

I have never heard him say one word (to my recollection) about the Tiki Room, either here or in Anaheim. I do know that Anaheim's was falling apart (literally) a little over a decade ago and he allowed it to be lovingly restored. That doesn't mean he loves the attraction or doesn't. Again, I am trying hard to stick to facts in this discussion so it doesn't go off the Internet rails. (Besides, I do not wish to watch any Leo film that is three hours long, no matter how much sex and nudity there is in it!)




True. I always say a fish rots from the head down. ... BUT ... the reality of the situation is that lots of folks under him either lied, did bad jobs, were afraid to tell him the truth or just didn't care. Some of that certainly bounces back on him. I really don't know how much because I do understand how small many of these people (some still working at Disney ... how you doing Georgie? :) ) can be.




Eisner took part as much as he could in everything from pitch sessions for films to park planning to be sure. But that sometimes gets blown out of proportion. It was easier for him to help pick out fabrics for Dixie Landings than it was for him to go over show details of EE (the mountain, not The Reluctant Lifestyler ... can someone hashtag that?) It was easier for him to attend rehearsals for Beauty and the Beast on Broadway than it was for him to get in on story sessions for Atlantis. As the company grew, his ability to have hands in every pie diminished no matter what bloggers like to claim. I know this. They are incorrect.

Iger is totally hands off almost everything except technology and he'll often take some interest in the new films (mostly Marvel, naturally). That's about it.
Late 80's/Early 90's - Look at what WDI pumped out -

Splash Mountain
Tower of Terror at DHS
Indiana Jones at DL
Toon Toon at DL
Space Mountain at DLP
Phase I of DLP
Phase I of DHS

I can think of no other time - besides the late 60's and early 70's - that WDI achieved such greatness... Can you?
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Jason Surrell, who someone told me was selling stuff at Theme Park Connection (yes, where the Amity Corless Brigade works!), today says lots of things. I have very little use for him as a member of our species, but to your point, I have heard the story too. But I don't believe it. It is always eighth-handed info passed down from folks with agendas.

The bottom line is Splash Mountain was a project that wasn't ever going to happen until Michael took (I believe) Breck to WDI one Saturday early in his tenure. The Imagineers there were trying to sell him on all sorts of projects for the parks, but the kid spied the model in the back and the rest is history and three great rides (in Anaheim, O-Town and Tokyo).
Yeah, it was Breck, who, by the way, is a good film director today.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
It's pretty, sure.

But is it enough? Is it what the MK truly needed?
SDMT should be exactly what corporate Disney wants; a mild roller coaster with unisex appeal that can be experienced by three generations.

That's the market Disney is chasing after right now.

How such a demographic gets WDW margins back up to historic levels is problematic, at least until WDW figures out a way for Grandma & Grandpa, Mom & Dad, and Little Johnny & Sue to afford staying together at the Grand Floridian.

After all, $1400/night for a couple of midsize hotel rooms is enough to give Gramps a heart attack.
 

EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
SDMT should be exactly what corporate Disney wants; a mild roller coaster with unisex appeal that can be experienced by three generations.

That's the market Disney is chasing after right now.

How such a demographic gets WDW margins back up to historic levels is problematic, at least until WDW figures out a way for Grandma & Grandpa, Mom & Dad, and Little Johnny & Sue to afford staying together at the Grand Floridian.

After all, $1400/night for a couple of midsize hotel rooms is enough to give Gramps a heart attack.
Absolutely! This Grandpa will take the young ones to an offsite property when the time comes. Maybe 2020.
 

The Visionary Soul

Well-Known Member
I remember, when Eisner made all the executives, and managers work at WDW, or DLR in lowly positions so they would understand the jobs that people employed by Disney actually endured. I personally knew a man hired as the general manager of a Disney Store. Once or twice he was required to work a week at WDW, one day in janitorial, another day selling Mickey Ice Cream bars, sitting in at Guest Relations, etc.
This policy still exists for all management at WDW, they all must spend one day a year working front-line in the parks.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Waving a Mickey hand with a bubble blower in the other in front of Casey's no doubt.
Well, its not like they can do much else.. can they? lol
Jobs was a visionary way before these products became hip.
Sort of right.
he just grabbed the right moment to improve and sell products THAT ALREADY EXISTED to the HIP guy.

Steve Jobs was no visionary, he was just a legendary marketing expert.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
With all due respect, since ME was CEO social media devices and instant messaging have become a thing in case you don't realize it. Granted it existed back then but nothing like it does now. One post to facebook I.E. can literally reach 100's in milliseconds. That kind of tech has to create all sorts of new security concerns for all those in the public eye. If Eisner was CEO today there is no way he could wander the parks without security.

I think your wrong. Eisner would TOTALLY take advantage of social media like Twitter and Instagram if we was in charge today. He loves it. Look at his current accounts, they are very active and FUN to follow. Bobs is a snooze-fest. Social media is not a fad. Just look at this thread '74 created. 300+ pages and over 400,000 views.

Eisner would be rocking social media to the hilt and would be doing it himself. With Iger we have the parks blog and mommy's spewing out socially safe comments on the "immersiveness" of rides like 7DMT. We would see pics of Eisner inside with a big smile on his face. We will see Bob in a suit on opening day and thats about it. (social media wise.) And do you think when Bob retires from Disney that we will EVER see him in the parks 5, 10, or 20 years from now with his kids and grand kids having a good time? Negative, Ghostrider!
 

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