The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[ParentsOf4]

Why would they care about AP holders?, AP holders and DVC members are considered a 'captive' audience

Despite what some think, DVC is not guaranteed income for Disney.

Most current DVC members will not be going to WDW 40 years from now. One way or another, when they are done with DVC, they are going to get rid of their interest.

The first possibility is that they give their DVC memberships to family members or friends who presumably want to go to WDW.

The second possibility is that they sell to someone who wants to go to WDW. DVC did not make those buyers suddenly interested in visiting WDW. They wanted to go anyway and decided that a DVC resale works best for them financially. The money in the resale is transferred from one individual to another. Except for a small admin fee, Disney gets nothing in the transfer.

The third possibility is that DVC members simply stop paying their annual Maintenance Fees and default if they cannot find buyers or renters. Disney is now stuck with points that they then have to sell. And, of course, Disney can sell these points only if someone wants them, only if Disney continues to make WDW a place that people want to visit and buy DVC points at.

Again, DVC does not represent guaranteed income for Disney. Disney still has to keep WDW a place that guests want to visit. Otherwise, DVC (and WDW) becomes worthless. Corporate Disney needs to maintain a profitable WDW and, in doing so, indirectly boosts the value of DVC.

What DVC does mean is that someone vacationing at WDW 40 years from now is going to be paying less than WDW’s rack rates. (If not less, then DVC becomes worthless and members simply default, leaving Disney with lots of unoccupied rooms.)

DVC steals guests away from Disney’s highly profitable Deluxe Resorts and transfers them to timeshares with much lower annual Maintenance Fees.

What DVC means is that corporate Disney is sacrificing profits for the next 40 years so they can make a quick buck this year on the initial sale.

 

[alphac2005]

Meh. So would dumping the same amount of money (or less) into revitalizing and renovating the area around Turner Field. You are right though, that area has gotten much better over the past decade.

I haven't followed the Cobb relocation that closely (because I really don't care), but it seems a bit silly to me. I still haven't heard what they plan to do with Turner Field once it is vacated. Though, I can understand the politics of Fulton County are a bit wonky and make redevelopment difficult...but, pretty much the whole of Atlanta south of 20 and north of the Airport needs it's reset button pushed.

The concept in Cobb it to have an area akin to Fenway or Wrigley where there are shops, dining, and more all around the stadium.

About a year ago, plans were leaked of redevelopment concepts of the former Fulton County Stadium and current parking lot to turn it into a mixed residential commercial property along with a MARTA extension. The whole idea now is that Turner Field will be demolished and the project will encompass the entire area. It would still need to be furnished by rail to be viable, which was one of the major problems that Liberty Media had with Turner Field not having a metro stop.

As with anything and nearly everything in Atlanta, there is virtually no history and anything around 20 years old is considered ancient.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Interesting comments regarding hand-drawn animation at Disney:

Q: Is 2D animation dead?

Tom Bancroft: It’s a loaded question. It’s not dead but it’s in a coma. I think that’s the best answer. I really do see it coming back in a very small way. And here’s my answer to that. How will it come back? I think what we’re going to see is not the Disney, the DreamWorks, the Pixar, whatever big studio – especially Disney that was known for 2D – I don’t think they’re the ones that are going to bring it back. But the way it’s going to come back in a small way will be from a small independent company. A small group of people doing it, and probably in Europe unfortunately. I’d love to see it make a big comeback here in the U.S. but I think we’ll see a couple of smaller films that do really well, make a ton of money and it will be a nostalgic resurgence but it will be a mini one.

I don’t necessarily see Disney going back to it in any big way because the story you don’t hear that goes along with them not doing it anymore is that they don’t even have the equipment anymore. They’ve sold all of the animation desks, all of the software programs. They have very little equipment that’s 2D, they have even less 2D animators left. It’s literally a handful of 2D guys that are still there. So, bringing it back at Disney would be a momentous, a very expensive deal which I don’t see happening.

http://www.themousecastle.com/2014/02/the-bancroft-brothers-and-annie-awards.html

The way John Lasseter was talking about stuff for some Japanese TV thing on the new Ghibli project, Tale of the Bamboo Princess, apparently more of the blame on the decline of 2D falls on him.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/pixar/jo...rawn-animation-to-japanese-tv-crew-95404.html

“Often times when you see something that is so hand-drawn, you’re always noticing the artist and the artwork, and it’s something inbetween you and getting caught up in the story. But not this film. This was amazing how you just get swept up in the story.”

With his story obsession and the accusations of Disney's CG being really homogenized (and hence not distracting to story), it makes you think that it's more then just the other studio execs.

 

[alphac2005]

Has the High Museum of Art improved in the last decade? Always amazed me how poor Atlanta's museum offerings were for a supposed world-class city.

It has greatly. They began an agreement around five years or so ago with the Louve, so they actually get some excellent exhibits now. You've hit it, though. World class means culture and the arts. Atlanta sorely lacks the refinement and I don't think that the upcoming College Football Hall of Fame adds much to the cultural aspect. The Georgia Aquarium is nice, but you can only do it so many times. There is no MoMA here, no Smithsonian, no Louve, or Field Museum. You can't expect it all, but the lack of museums of significance is quite noticeable. They're building the Civil Rights Museum, so I hope that has some real substance. I've never lived in a place with such a sizable population with truly so little. A Target every few miles, Home Depot, fast food joint, that's the deal here.

 

[englanddg]

The concept in Cobb it to have an area akin to Fenway or Wrigley where there are shops, dining, and more all around the stadium.

About a year ago, plans were leaked of redevelopment concepts of the former Fulton County Stadium and current parking lot to turn it into a mixed residential commercial property along with a MARTA extension. The whole idea now is that Turner Field will be demolished and the project will encompass the entire area. It would still need to be furnished by rail to be viable, which was one of the major problems that Liberty Media had with Turner Field not having a metro stop.

As with anything and nearly everything in Atlanta, there is virtually no history and anything around 20 years old is considered ancient.

Interesting. And, a very true quote about Atlanta...

I still think it's a silly expenditure. Now, pushing a MARTA stop down there would be smart, even if it was just a spoke off Garnett or Georgia State. They also really need to fork the red line at Arts Center and take it up 75...but...whatever.

I'd like to see them start a NW to SE line passing through Five Points, but I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[englanddg]

And the Puppetry Center has finally decided to start the Jim Henson Wing expansion.

http://www.puppet.org/believeinmakebelieve/index.shtml

That's cool. I drove by it about a half hour ago (I was over by Ikea in my Datacenter)...

I'll certainly make a stop by there once it's completed.

 

[Computer Magic]

Despite what some think, DVC is not guaranteed income for Disney.

Most current DVC members will not be going to WDW 40 years from now. One way or another, when they are done with DVC, they are going to get rid of their interest.

The first possibility is that they give their DVC memberships to family members or friends who presumably want to go to WDW.

The second possibility is that they sell to someone who wants to go to WDW. DVC did not make those buyers suddenly interested in visiting WDW. They wanted to go anyway and decided that a DVC resale works best for them financially. The money in the resale is transferred from one individual to another. Except for a small admin fee, Disney gets nothing in the transfer.

The third possibility is that DVC members simply stop paying their annual Maintenance Fees and default if they cannot find buyers or renters. Disney is now stuck with points that they then have to sell. And, of course, Disney can sell these points only if someone wants them, only if Disney continues to make WDW a place that people want to visit and buy DVC points at.

Again, DVC does not represent guaranteed income for Disney. Disney still has to keep WDW a place that guests want to visit. Otherwise, DVC (and WDW) becomes worthless. Corporate Disney needs to maintain a profitable WDW and, in doing so, indirectly boosts the value of DVC.

What DVC does mean is that someone vacationing at WDW 40 years from now is going to be paying less than WDW’s rack rates. (If not less, then DVC becomes worthless and members simply default, leaving Disney with lots of unoccupied rooms.)

DVC steals guests away from Disney’s highly profitable Deluxe Resorts and transfers them to timeshares with much lower annual Maintenance Fees.

What DVC means is that corporate Disney is sacrificing profits for the next 40 years so they can make a quick buck this year on the initial sale.

So true. I had a conversation the other day with a friend that stays at a DVC. He never bought into the DVC but rather rents points. His last trip he and his wife stayed at AKL DVC and never once stepped foot in the theme parks. Instead, he went golfing and visit areas around Orlando. This is something Disney never expected. Disney intentions with DVC was to keep you on property and in the theme parks. Well as PhotoDave stated, you need to reinvest into your product.

 

[ChrisFL]

Oh really? Lino isnt a game show host in the colonies then, my mistake. I will do better to keep up with your celebrities.

Right, think Graham Norton, but less gay and not funny...but he is an amazing car collector

 

[englanddg]

The new location will be a plus for us Tennesseans going to the games, not sure why they don't just relocate the Towe and flame to the Olympic Park, much better fit for the long haul.

Because downtown already has a flame tower.

Plus, the original one is just ugly with all that latticework and stairs...

But, you are right, it would make sense there. There is plenty of room on the corner of Baker across from World of Coke...it could work there.

Me, though...I'd just scrap it. maybe keep the sign over the road, and certainly the torch itself should be kept (maybe just move it to the park?)...but, that tower is ugly! It just needs to go.

 

[Nubs70]

IMO - testing just means 'evolving' - the product is not final and is still going through iterations. I don't fault the company for saying 'this is not the final product'... but also spinning it to their advantage... most people want to be part of an early adopter crowd when it comes to 'getting something new..'

To me, testing means that we have yet to have deployed a fully functional product with a resilient backbone. Much like the alpha and beta stages of online video game production. Only after the fully functional/resilient product has gone "gold" can a product "evolve" through a series of updates and enhancements to the resilient backbone.
So I ask, why should I be expected to pay premium prices for an experience that is still in beta testing?

 

[John]

I am sure most people don't care and I do agree with a certain Magic member but the fact that the CM's and their guest get in free they still do not have advance access to FP+. They are treated like "day of" guest. Do they count in the end game as far as "testing" is concerned? I know why it is this way but I would have thought that Disney would have figured this into their plans from the beginning.

 

[flynnibus]

Again, DVC does not represent guaranteed income for Disney. Disney still has to keep WDW a place that guests want to visit

But compared to the cost/effort required to keep a 'open market' guest.. the DVC owner is far more likely to be returning. Jettisoning your DVC ownership has it's own barriers that makes it a significant decision to 'get out'. Even if a single owner becomes disenchanted... as long as WDW is attractive in the open market, someone will buy that DVC asset. That means that that owner has been replaced by a new one who will come.

So maybe you would say each owner is not guaranteed for Disney.. but their 'slot' is en large. The attentive audience to start with (else why would they consider DVC).. the idea they are getting a bargain... the incentives to 'use it or lose it'.. all of those things lock those owners in far more than a family off the street who makes a decision to head to WDW or not.

Those points are going to be used... and if it reachs a point where DVC points are 'dead weight' no one can move... I'm sure by that point WDW has far more troubles getting people in off the street.

That's kind of the beauty of DVC... it's 'cheaper' attendance that you don't need to attend to as agressively as the open market because of all the incentives working in Disney's favor. As long as they do 'enough' for the open market, those DVC slots are en large going to follow.

I think the resale market and ROFR are going to be far more significant indicators of the floor falling out than the few dozens to hundreds of people you find online saying 'we don't even goto the parks anymore'. If that pattern is consistent enough, and that audience gets big enough, why on earth are you paying Disney's absurd rates to have a timeshare in Orlando? Smart money would be to unload DVC while you can and just replace your Orlando timeshare with one a fraction of the cost. That's why I interpret the disinterested DVC owners we see now as people who hope the situation is temporary, or niche.

 

[flynnibus]

So I ask, why should I be expected to pay premium prices for an experience that is still in beta testing?

It seems to me that if you have problems - and make it known - Disney has been compensating those people. So if it really is affecting your 'value' - speak up. Otherwise we are just huffing and puffing over hypotheticals.

 

[flynnibus]

He never bought into the DVC but rather rents points. His last trip he and his wife stayed at AKL DVC and never once stepped foot in the theme parks. Instead, he went golfing and visit areas around Orlando. This is something Disney never expected

Seems like an awful expensive way to visit Orlando to me.

 

[Computer Magic]

Seems like an awful expensive way to visit Orlando to me.

Not if you enjoy the resort themes and better than full pricing. My point being DVC doesn't equal theme park attendance.

 

[Computer Magic]

But compared to the cost/effort required to keep a 'open market' guest.. the DVC owner is far more likely to be returning. Jettisoning your DVC ownership has it's own barriers that makes it a significant decision to 'get out'. Even if a single owner becomes disenchanted... as long as WDW is attractive in the open market, someone will buy that DVC asset. That means that that owner has been replaced by a new one who will come.

So maybe you would say each owner is not guaranteed for Disney.. but their 'slot' is en large. The attentive audience to start with (else why would they consider DVC).. the idea they are getting a bargain... the incentives to 'use it or lose it'.. all of those things lock those owners in far more than a family off the street who makes a decision to head to WDW or not.

Those points are going to be used... and if it reachs a point where DVC points are 'dead weight' no one can move... I'm sure by that point WDW has far more troubles getting people in off the street.

That's kind of the beauty of DVC... it's 'cheaper' attendance that you don't need to attend to as agressively as the open market because of all the incentives working in Disney's favor. As long as they do 'enough' for the open market, those DVC slots are en large going to follow.

I think the resale market and ROFR are going to be far more significant indicators of the floor falling out than the few dozens to hundreds of people you find online saying 'we don't even goto the parks anymore'. If that pattern is consistent enough, and that audience gets big enough, why on earth are you paying Disney's absurd rates to have a timeshare in Orlando? Smart money would be to unload DVC while you can and just replace your Orlando timeshare with one a fraction of the cost. That's why I interpret the disinterested DVC owners we see now as people who hope the situation is temporary, or niche.

Disney doesn't like the resale market and the proof the changes they made in recent years regarding using resales points for cruises , etc

 

[tissandtully]

Not if you enjoy the resort themes and better than full pricing. My point being DVC doesn't equal theme park attendance.

Agreed, I could totally just stay at AKV my whole trip. It's so quiet and beautiful.

 

[asianway]

Disney doesn't like the resale market and the proof the changes they made in recent years regarding using resales points for cruises , etc

That was always a sucker exchange anyway

 

[Computer Magic]

That was always a sucker exchange anyway

So true, you never get the value but do you really want to be locked out of that option for 40 years?

 

[George]

So true. I had a conversation the other day with a friend that stays at a DVC. He never bought into the DVC but rather rents points. His last trip he and his wife stayed at AKL DVC and never once stepped foot in the theme parks. Instead, he went golfing and visit areas around Orlando. This is something Disney never expected. Disney intentions with DVC was to keep you on property and in the theme parks. Well as PhotoDave stated, you need to reinvest into your product.

Agreed, I could totally just stay at AKV my whole trip. It's so quiet and beautiful.

What's funny is that I just gave my sister some points and her family just went to Kidani this weekend. They are somewhat local. Anyway, they just enjoyed the resort. No theme parks at all. I bought two packets of points (one at VWL and one at BC), resale, before the rule changes. We have nice places to stay, but there is far from a one to one correspondence between a day at a Disney resort and a day at a WDW theme park for my family.