The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[Gabe1]

My family and I were just looking at Cabana resort.

We were amazed at the price difference between the moderate/value resort and Uni's version of these resorts..

Disney has truly priced the middle class out of staying in a deluxe resort. Currently the discounted price for Beach Club (the resort we usually stay at) is $452 per night for a standard double during August. It used to be around the $300-$350 level, and even that is excessive.

Then we thought, how about a moderate Disney resort? Hmm...let's see, Uni is opening up a new resort, let's check out their prices. We figured, it's new, it'll probably be in the $200-$300 range. Actually it's $150 a night. We were impressed. We figured with the amount we are saving, why not just get the express pass at Uni, and get "fastpasses" for all rides. That to us sounded like a 10x better deal than reserving a FP (max of 3 per day) in WDW.

We have to do some more research into it, but looking into it, the better value for the greater enjoyment seems to be at Uni these days. Not a Uni fanboy speaking, just a reality fanboy.

Look at what is already included in the parks as perks of being a resort guest. The last time we stayed on their property at Uni we were given unlimited front of the line by being their guests.

And yes Disney has out priced themselves, their occupancy shows it. But deluxes were always a stretch for us even back when. We have done deluxes when were are doing quick 4-5 day trips here and there. All of our 2 week trips have been at either POFC or POR and these are getting pricey even with their discounts. I won't stay at a value. I will wait longer to go than endure the compromises I have to make. But the way we looked at our 2 week vacations for about 15 years was...we had "X" to spend for our Disney Vacation. We could stay 5 or 6 days at a Deluxe Resort or 14 days at a moderate. We were in the parks everyday so Moderates won hands down for a 2 week Disney Trip. Those have gone away now, ticket prices, food prices have escalated beyond inflation. We started splitting our vacations between Uni and Disney back in 2003 staying onsight at each.

Cutting back on EMHs, 3 FP+s and the Disney squeeze for everything now is making some of the offsite resorts and homes look attractive again. We have not stayed off sight since 1989, the perks were generous back then.

 

[StageFrenzy]

Cutting back on EMHs, 3 FP+s and the Disney squeeze for everything now is making some of the offsite resorts and homes look attractive again. We have not stayed off site since 1989, the perks were generous back then.

In addition to rising rates the offsite resorts have caught up to Disney in amenities and let’s say "magic". Where there used to be only The Peabody* in town if looking for a resort up to Disney's par, there are now many properties. All the big chains have at least one flagship resort in the Orlando area now. Most of these resorts offer well themed pool areas, gyms, top tier restaurants and some even have lazy rivers. So while Disney has raised prices and cut, offsite has grown and matured. The only downside to the offsite is now all these resorts like the airline industry are becoming addicted to fees.




*Now sold and known as a Hyatt Regency, ducks are gone and as is a little of the resorts heart.

 

[wogwog]

Better? Gosh lets hope so. I can't imagine that hair looking good no matter how great the photography is...actually I think better photography has to make those locks look worse.

Scary thought. Maybe it is not a wig.

 

[matt9112]

at some point even the brits and Brazilians wont be able to float the bill to stay on property.

 

[matt9112]

The Disney of two to three decades ago would have.

they died.

 

[matt9112]

It would increase attendance...

when can we start a petition?>

 

[ParentsOf4]

Disney has truly priced the middle class out of staying in a deluxe resort. Currently the discounted price for Beach Club (the resort we usually stay at) is $452 per night for a standard double during August. It used to be around the $300-$350 level, and even that is excessive.

This 4th of July week, a Lagoon View room at the Grand Floridian averages $691/night.

For that same week, an Ocean View room at Atlantis Paradise Island's Royal Towers averages $551/night.

Who pays $691/night to stay at the Grand Floridian?

I suggest the domestic market (80% of WDW's business) can be generalized into 3 segments.

First is the “pixie dust” segment who would pay $1000/night even if it meant taking out a second mortgage.

Second is the “once-in-a-lifetime" vacation segment, a family of modest means who wants to experience “the best”.

Third is the “money is no object” segment who expects “the best”.

WDW’s Deluxe Resorts have an occupancy problem because WDW has lost the “money is no object” domestic segment due to declines in their theme parks.

Those who can afford "the best" expect to receive the best, not a 3-star hotel and a Walmarted version of a theme park. WDW's quality declines and park staleness compare poorly to other luxury vacation destinations, and it's costing Disney the high end of the consumer market. In the years since WDW built its 5700 Deluxe Resort rooms, WDW has slipped backwards while other resorts competing for those same vacation dollars have surged forward.

WDW’s Deluxe Resorts have an occupancy problem because WDW is losing the “once-in-a-lifetime" domestic segment due to prices.

The cost of 7 days' worth of theme park tickets for a family of four adds another $1704 to a 7-night vacation or $243/night. Add that to the hotel and a WDW dream vacation for a family is up to $934/night, not including food or merchandise. At that price, a family of moderate means has been priced out of their “once-in-a-lifetime" vacation at WDW and begins to look elsewhere. Compare that $934/night at the Grand Floridian with $551/night at Atlantis and WDW pricing becomes something of a joke.

Is it any wonder WDW's Deluxe Resorts suffer from an occupancy problem? They're losing so much of their domestic market.

 

[lebeau]

I agree with pretty much all you posted, but IMO at this point Disney is correct in charging more for multi-day passes. The 2-day park ticket, maybe is inflated in comparison, but once you get to 3/4/5... that is where Disney has cause to charge more. Day 3 at Disney, the guest can visit a new park, new experiences and rides. Day 3 at Uni (currently) you are revisiting one of the 2 you already toured. Day 4 at Disney, still another "new" park. At UNI, you are once again revisiting one of the 2 you have already toured. IMO, that is where Disney is justified in charging more. Now, whether or not there is enough value at each of those parks to justify the extra ticket prices, that is a personal decision for each guest.

I partially agree, partially disagree. Yes, Disney has 4 gates. To experience them, I need to dedicate a minimum of 4 days to Disney and pay for additional admissions or buy the park hopper option and travel between parks. That also means time away from the Magic Kingdom which is the only park that is currently fully realized. Basically, everything is spread out, less accessible and more expensive.

The fact that Universal has everything relatively compact between two gates is a selling point. I can walk from one end to another. Soon there will also be a train bridging them. Everything is more convenient and less expensive in terms of both time and money.

For certain families, both resorts may have the same number of appealing attractions. But at Disney, there are more obstacles to overcome to experience them.

 

[wdisney9000]

.
Is it any wonder WDW's Deluxe Resorts suffer from an occupancy problem? They're losing so much of their domestic market.

Heres what I dont understand and would like to know why they do this. 2 things actually.

1. Just for fun, I went on Disneys website a few days ago and looked at availability for 6 nights in either Oct. or November for Yacht/Beach Club, Animal Kingdom, and BW. The search results kept returning that there were no room standard rooms available at YC and no club level as well. Just 1 or 2 bedroom. BC had pool view , but nothing else, Animal Kingdom had 1 or 2 bedroom available but no studio. Checked this morning and now YC has standard room, and standard view club level. AKL has Arusha bunk bed but nothing else. Why does it usually show little to no availability so far out and availability switches daily?

2. They will look you dead in the face at the front desk and tell you there are no rooms available when there are plenty. Why? Good example: we arrived around 11 am in January at BC. I run inside and ask if room is available yet because we dont to unload our food from cooler in the car unless we can bring it to a room asap. The CM says yes, so we park car and we unload our stuff. They give us a room number that we cant find (something like, room 5149) and are then told by a CM in the hall that the room number is for YC??? We retun to front desk and ask CM whats up? Ive stayed at YC enough times to know that level 5 is club level and we didnt book CL. The CM tells me it was a mistake and that there is no room available yet.

I explain that we have unloaded all our stuff and wouldnt have done that unless there was a room available and we have perishables that we dont want to spoil. He tells me sorry but theres nothing he can do because ALL the rooms are either being used or not clean yet. I ask him if we can just have a room to to store food in fridge while our room is getting cleaned, and he says that "computer" keeps telling him there is nothing available. I ask for a manager and explain what happened and what do you know...he gives a room that is clean and ready to go. As we walked to our room I notice several rooms that mousekeeping is leaving and that are all empty and clean. Sorry for long story, but why do they do that? It was a random day in January (no holiday) and they tell me there are no rooms available? But low and behold there are.... why?

 

[Gabe1]

The only downside to the offsite is now all these resorts like the airline industry are becoming addicted to fees.
*Now sold and known as a Hyatt Regency, ducks are gone and as is a little of the resorts heart.

Blah, now the fees I was not aware of. Duly noted now. I've had fees at the Hilton DTD and Swan and Dolphin but didn't think it drifted to offsight areas. The internet fee for a long time at Disney always bugged me. Thanks.

 

[Gabe1]

I partially agree, partially disagree. Yes, Disney has 4 gates. To experience them, I need to dedicate a minimum of 4 days to Disney and pay for additional admissions or buy the park hopper option and travel between parks. That also means time away from the Magic Kingdom which is the only park that is currently fully realized. Basically, everything is spread out, less accessible and more expensive.

The fact that Universal has everything relatively compact between two gates is a selling point. I can walk from one end to another. Soon there will also be a train bridging them. Everything is more convenient and less expensive in terms of both time and money.

For certain families, both resorts may have the same number of appealing attractions. But at Disney, there are more obstacles to overcome to experience them.

My thought is Disney is leaving a lot money on the table with guests waiting at bus stops and on basically stuck on transportation multiple times a day. In bus queues and on transportation, no revenue is being generated. I understand how Disney is being prudent with 3 bus stops at DTD and then Typhoon Lagoon however that takes guests offline for spending.

I genuinely believe Disney has missed the mark by not having some additional monorails and monorails that are more reliable, you have to maintain your infrastructure with 40+ square miles to navigate. We look at how efficient the monorail at MCO is, very little labor. Something like that would be so much better between DHS and the back end of Epcot. For everything else beneath the Magic Kingdom and it is pretty much in a fairly horizontal line, run a MCO type Monorail between DTD and AK with strategic stops. It be easier to run shuttles between the resorts to a monorail stop than loops as example from POR to AK, Epcot and MGM. Once on the monorail guests would be transported quickly to major attraction areas. Yeah it be expensive but guests would be moved around quicker and with substantially less buses, fuel and labor.

 

[71jason]

They look different in my photos

I WILL PAY LARGE SUMS OF CASH AMERICAN FOR THOSE PHOTOS DAVID!!!!!!

Oh, unless you meant from the parade, not your sideline business. In which case, I'm sure you got some good shots, carry on ...

 

[GoofGoof]

Heres what I dont understand and would like to know why they do this. 2 things actually.

1. Just for fun, I went on Disneys website a few days ago and looked at availability for 6 nights in either Oct. or November for Yacht/Beach Club, Animal Kingdom, and BW. The search results kept returning that there were no room standard rooms available at YC and no club level as well. Just 1 or 2 bedroom. BC had pool view , but nothing else, Animal Kingdom had 1 or 2 bedroom available but no studio. Checked this morning and now YC has standard room, and standard view club level. AKL has Arusha bunk bed but nothing else. Why does it usually show little to no availability so far out and availability switches daily?

2. They will look you dead in the face at the front desk and tell you there are no rooms available when there are plenty. Why? Good example: we arrived around 11 am in January at BC. I run inside and ask if room is available yet because we dont to unload our food from cooler in the car unless we can bring it to a room asap. The CM says yes, so we park car and we unload our stuff. They give us a room number that we cant find (something like, room 5149) and are then told by a CM in the hall that the room number is for YC??? We retun to front desk and ask CM whats up? Ive stayed at YC enough times to know that level 5 is club level and we didnt book CL. The CM tells me it was a mistake and that there is no room available yet.

I explain that we have unloaded all our stuff and wouldnt have done that unless there was a room available and we have perishables that we dont want to spoil. He tells me sorry but theres nothing he can do because ALL the rooms are either being used or not clean yet. I ask him if we can just have a room to to store food in fridge while our room is getting cleaned, and he says that "computer" keeps telling him there is nothing available. I ask for a manager and explain what happened and what do you know...he gives a room that is clean and ready to go. As we walked to our room I notice several rooms that mousekeeping is leaving and that are all empty and clean. Sorry for long story, but why do they do that? It was a random day in January (no holiday) and they tell me there are no rooms available? But low and behold there are.... why?

They have a walk in refrigerator at all of the resorts that they could have stored your food in for you until your room was ready. We have had food delivered from garden grocer and stored at the resort until we were ready to have bell services deliver it. You probably just got a bad person at the desk who was uninformed or just plain lazy. It seems to happen more and more. There is an uneven level of service. Some CMs are still great, but then others...not so much.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Oh, forgot to mention that the awesome fire-breathing dragon in the MK's first new parade since 2001 (before FB, before smart phones, before Lifestylers, before our Constitution was used as toilet paper by two straight administrations, before WDW was even that stale) didn't make it a week with the fire effect working.

Time to break out the strobes.

 

[Cesar R M]

This 4th of July week, a Lagoon View room at the Grand Floridian averages $691/night.

For that same week, an Ocean View room at Atlantis Paradise Island's Royal Towers averages $551/night.

Who pays $691/night to stay at the Grand Floridian?

I suggest the domestic market (80% of WDW's business) can be generalized into 3 segments.

First is the “pixie dust” segment who would pay $1000/night even if it meant taking out a second mortgage.

Second is the “once-in-a-lifetime" vacation segment, a family of modest means who wants to experience “the best”.

Third is the “money is no object” segment who expects “the best”.

WDW’s Deluxe Resorts have an occupancy problem because WDW has lost the “money is no object” domestic segment due to declines in their theme parks.

Those who can afford "the best" expect to receive the best, not a 3-star hotel and a Walmarted version of a theme park. WDW's quality declines and park staleness compare poorly to other luxury vacation destinations, and it's costing Disney the high end of the consumer market. In the years since WDW built its 5700 Deluxe Resort rooms, WDW has slipped backwards while other resorts competing for those same vacation dollars have surged forward.

WDW’s Deluxe Resorts have an occupancy problem because WDW is losing the “once-in-a-lifetime" domestic segment due to prices.

The cost of 7 days' worth of theme park tickets for a family of four adds another $1704 to a 7-night vacation or $243/night. Add that to the hotel and a WDW dream vacation for a family is up to $934/night, not including food or merchandise. At that price, a family of moderate means has been priced out of their “once-in-a-lifetime" vacation at WDW and begins to look elsewhere. Compare that $934/night at the Grand Floridian with $551/night at Atlantis and WDW pricing becomes something of a joke.

Is it any wonder WDW's Deluxe Resorts suffer from an occupancy problem? They're losing so much of their domestic market.

I wonder how much pixie dust the Administrator and accountants have to smell before they understand they HAVE to upgrade their resorts or lower the prices to stay competitive.

Because I honestly do not think that a FP+ is worth the price of staying at a deluxe inside WDW.

 

[GoofGoof]

I wonder how much pixie dust the Administrator and accountants have to smell before they understand they HAVE to upgrade their resorts or lower the prices to stay competitive.

Because I honestly do not think that a FP+ is worth the price of staying at a deluxe inside WDW.

Just a point of clarification, the accountants have virtually no say in any strategic decision making. Their job is to close the books each month and report results in compliance with GAAP. Accountants deal almost exclusively in what happened in the past (last month, last quarter or last year). In most large corporations keeping track of the budget falls into a department that is seperate from accounting. Usually a financial planning or strategic planning type group. Even these people ultimately may not have a lot of say over projects. In my experience individual department heads or VPs will usually "own" their own budgets and fight for every penny they can get and then senior management or chief level executives will slash and cut the budgets to fit an overall corporate goal. They are the real villains in all of this, although some of the VPs are just as bad. Some staff accountant with a BS in accounting in a cubicle in Celebration punching journal entries into a GL system isn't the problem.

 

[StageFrenzy]

Blah, now the fees I was not aware of. Duly noted now. I've had fees at the Hilton DTD and Swan and Dolphin but didn't think it drifted to offsight areas. The internet fee for a long time at Disney always bugged me. Thanks.

Some hotels are better than others for the fees. Make sure when booking to keep scrolling down at the big travel websites for info on fees. There usually is no "internet fee" these days, now it is called a resort fee. Some places charge for self parking as well.

 

[djlaosc]

at some point even the brits and Brazilians wont be able to float the bill to stay on property.

Well, the rumour is that free dining is not going to be available for us Brits next year (it was available for around 48 weeks of 2014 if you booked early enough last year like we did). It didn't come out till April 25th 2013 for 2014 bookings, so there is still some time to go for next year.

So, I would guess that you will potentially see a lot less Brits staying onsite next year...

 

[wdisney9000]

They have a walk in refrigerator at all of the resorts that they could have stored your food in for you until your room was ready. We have had food delivered from garden grocer and stored at the resort until we were ready to have bell services deliver it. You probably just got a bad person at the desk who was uninformed or just plain lazy. It seems to happen more and more. There is an uneven level of service. Some CMs are still great, but then others...not so much.

The manager offered to store it in the fridge which I was fine with. But I knew if I accepted putting the food in the fridge they would assume that I was willing to wait and we would have been put on the back burner. To me, thats unacceptable. If they had told me when we arrived that it would be awhile before a room was ready we would have gladly kept the food in the cooler in the car and found something to do while we waited. I made it very clear I was aware that we arrived early and that I did not want to unload our car until a room was ready.

They made the mistake of saying a room was ready when it was not. Then they gave us a room number that wasnt even in our resort. How does that happen? Thats 2 strikes in a row. I wasnt even upset about that. But dont tell me that there are no other rooms available when I KNOW thats a lie. Strike 3. I shouldnt have to have a manager make something happen. Especially at a deluxe resort with the prices people pay. They should simply have better trained staff. No excuse when Im paying their high prices. If they want to treat me like a fool after I give them all that money, Im gonna call them on it. And if anybody thinks I was out of line for getting the manager, the proof is in the pudding. They LIED. They said there were no rooms available but there really was.

Edit: I agree with what you said, @GoofGoof. Lazy CM's. Thanks for the response. My post wasnt towards you or what you said. Just getting it out there.

 

[Cesar R M]

Just a point of clarification, the accountants have virtually no say in any strategic decision making. Their job is to close the books each month and report results in compliance with GAAP. Accountants deal almost exclusively in what happened in the past (last month, last quarter or last year). In most large corporations keeping track of the budget falls into a department that is seperate from accounting. Usually a financial planning or strategic planning type group. Even these people ultimately may not have a lot of say over projects. In my experience individual department heads or VPs will usually "own" their own budgets and fight for every penny they can get and then senior management or chief level executives will slash and cut the budgets to fit an overall corporate goal. They are the real villains in all of this, although some of the VPs are just as bad. Some staff accountant with a BS in accounting in a cubicle in Celebration punching journal entries into a GL system isn't the problem.

eehe my point was not about blaming the accountants.
my point was how much pixie dust they would be used (Ie like drugs) before the numbers are all red and they cannot balance the numbers due of operational loses.
and I agree with you that the high executives are the problem, always wanting more for less.
If they could, they would demand EVERYTHING for NOTHING.

The manager offered to store it in the fridge which I was fine with. But I knew if I accepted putting the food in the fridge they would assume that I was willing to wait and we would have been put on the back burner. To me, thats unacceptable. If they had told me when we arrived that it would be awhile before a room was ready we would have gladly kept the food in the cooler in the car and found something to do while we waited. I made it very clear I was aware that we arrived early and that I did not want to unload our car until a room was ready.

They made the mistake of saying a room was ready when it was not. Then they gave us a room number that wasnt even in our resort. How does that happen? Thats 2 strikes in a row. I wasnt even upset about that. But dont tell me that there are no other rooms available when I KNOW thats a lie. Strike 3. I shouldnt have to have a manager make something happen. Especially at a deluxe resort with the prices people pay. They should simply have better trained staff. No excuse when Im paying their high prices. If they want to treat me like a fool after I give them all that money, Im gonna call them on it. And if anybody thinks I was out of line for getting the manager, the proof is in the pudding. They LIED. They said there were no rooms available but there really was.

Edit: I agree with what you said, @GoofGoof. Lazy CM's. Thanks for the response. My post wasnt towards you or what you said. Just getting it out there.

It would be kindaVERY sad, if someone leaked that WDW is also slashing the training budgets..