The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[GoofGoof]

We buy crap on every trip still. Actually, I shouldn't include myself in that we. Most I get for myself is a t-shirt. My kids always find multiple somethings they want...at each park...and the hotel...and DTD. I wish they shared the common opinion that there is nothing worth buying at WDW

I have noticed a decline in the quality of the t-shirts over the last few years.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Yeah, but by staying did Disney make enough off them for that extra time (past 3am) to offset the higher costs?
Did they buy 1 day tickets or were they APs, CMs, etc. In short: Did Disney actually gain anything from them staying vs going home at 3am?

It's a novel concept that you can use and write off the cost... but once it loses it's novelty (by running it all the time) the crowds (and revenue) also fall off.

They kill the golden goose.

Whether or not Disney is making much money past that point, there are a lot more people in the park spending money than they normally would have had on that day (the limited merch, limited time F&B is where the real money is at). They make up for any money they may lose at night by making way more money than they ever would have made during the day.

Not sure why you're trying to pick apart Disney for this. This is one of those things that they don't need to do and it's just a fun enjoyable time. Sometimes we just need to know when to stop with the complaints.

 

[flynnibus]

Whether or not Disney is making much money past that point, there are a lot more people in the park spending money than they normally would have had on that day (the limited merch, limited time F&B is where the real money is at). They make up for any money they may lose at night by making way more money than they ever would have made during the day.

And if you can do that without running the park for an additional 6hrs.. and all the chaos on your normal system that it causes.. why take the more costly route?

The 24hr thing was popular because initially it was a 'OMG.. when will I ever get to do this?!?!' - if you make it an annual event then you just undercut all of that exclusivity.

Not sure why you're trying to pick apart Disney for this. This is one of those things that they don't need to do and it's just a fun enjoyable time. Sometimes we just need to know when to stop with the complaints.

It's called RUINING A GOOD THING. I point back to my earlier comment "Who Wants to be a Millionaire anyone??' - Sorry if that's too old for you to get the reference.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I haven't bought WDW merchandise in the last three trips. In DLP, I haven't in two. At Disneyland in 2012, I did only because I wanted something from the "new" DCA- and its cool retro offerings. Prior to that, I think it was 2009 the last time I bought in California, and it was something from the Disney Gallery.

 

[flynnibus]

The crowds in Orlando seem to just consider "Disney" (in their words) a typical family vacation. Disney World kitsch has not been tapped by the same hipster market in big East Coast cities, nor is it considered nearly as valuable as Disneyland kitsch.

I think it's simply that DL represents part of the SoCal culture.. and ties back to the 50s which is still very popular. WDW on the other hand has never been anything but a Tourist destination. WDW blossomed in the age of Jet transportation for vacationing. The WDW guests do not have that same attachment to the central FL scene that the much much larger SoCal demographic had with DL. Plus.. WDW was 70s and 80s... that era isn't as hip as the 50s is.. and look at what people put up 'tastefully' about DL.. the old stuff.

 

[flynnibus]

I like what @ParentsOf4 said, it's a question of sustainability. Sure the parks have been doing good numbers. Can it last though?

If anything... it's going to take longer to unfold then we probably think. This same song has been sung for the last 10+ years... and everyone thinks the tipping point is just over the horizon... but Disney has defied everyone and managed to keep milking it.

 

[71jason]

Yes, that was my theory.

Glad to know I still have some shreds of memory left--now if I could only remember what I had for breakfast.

Deleted for space, but great post btw.

 

[Next Big Thing]

And if you can do that without running the park for an additional 6hrs.. and all the chaos on your normal system that it causes.. why take the more costly route?

The 24hr thing was popular because initially it was a 'OMG.. when will I ever get to do this?!?!' - if you make it an annual event then you just undercut all of that exclusivity.



It's called RUINING A GOOD THING. I point back to my earlier comment "Who Wants to be a Millionaire anyone??' - Sorry if that's too old for you to get the reference.

Everyone always criticizes Disney for being cheap, but yet here you are criticizing them for spending more money than they supposedly need to. Which, if that's true, would mean they are putting guest experience over profits. Guests love the opportunity to do this and there are still PLENTY that haven't had a chance. You would think the doom and gloom heard would like that type of thing. Disney can't win no matter what they do though.

And lol, calm down buddy. It's ONCE A YEAR. It's not ruining a good thing. There aren't enough times where the MK truly feels alive like during these events. Maybe you should experience it before criticizing it.

 

[flynnibus]

Everyone always criticizes Disney for being cheap, but yet here you are criticizing them for spending more money than they supposedly need to.

Well because between those two extremes... there is a middle. There is also SMART spending vs dumb.

When someone makes dumb choices... those usually have the consequence of harming other things that otherwise might have been.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Brilliant assessment! I think you've summed it up, nicely.

From my very unscientific observations wandering through both Orlando and Anaheim properties in recent years, the Anaheim property attracts a much larger crowd of "trend setters" and "decision makers", in the Madison Avenue language. It's very stylish to go to a SoCal dinner party in a hipster neighborhood and find a beautifully framed 1960 Attraction Poster from Disneyland hung in the dining room or family room or rumpus rooms. Disneyland is seen as upscale hipster heaven west of the Rockies, and sophisticated people flaunt it here. I'm not talking about the crazy super-fans with rooms full of collectible crap (which exist for WDW too), just the average upper-middle class family showing their hip credentials at a dinner party.

The crowds in Orlando seem to just consider "Disney" (in their words) a typical family vacation. Disney World kitsch has not been tapped by the same hipster market in big East Coast cities, nor is it considered nearly as valuable as Disneyland kitsch. It's just a very different world in Orlando with demographics and attitude. And that plays into many of the executive decisions on what to do, and what not to do, with the Orlando theme parks. That doesn't seem to help Orlando, either.

Hipsters love irony. The Disneyland hipsters are just as obsessed with the brand and just more obsessed with ornament. They still see Disneyland as a silly amusement and have no respect for themed entertainment as a creative medium. There is no concern for theme or story so long as it is "detailed" and features their favorite characters and brands.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Im not sure I fully agree. I do not think their love of DL is all about the characters. A perfect example is Dapper Day.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Friday Musings:

Yes, I'm not dead yet.

So, I know all those folks with their shadow government theories are crazy and all (yep, tinfoil mouse ears) BUT ... USA announces biggest defense cuts since pre-WWII last week. Vlad Putin decides to send a warship on an 'unscheduled' visit to Cuba that the media doesn't talk about. Then he decides to send forces into the Crimea. Talking war hawks are now comparing him to old Adolf on CNN. And, yeah, it all just seems so convenient.

I've heard folks are swimming in Anaheim without pools. Considering how dry California has been, I think that's great. And let it rain on the Oscars too.

I was talking to a friend about EPCOT earlier today ... and I really wanted to cry. If you love it today, you either have no taste or simply never visited back in the 20th century.

How does one visit WDW regularly and not see how stale and desperately in need of updating or replacing the majority of its attractions are? And how does one dare say the same about UNI without a Pixie Dust bong in their hands?

Yes, Mrs. Ricky's husband really wants to see Darkwing Duck. Could someone please explain to him that it's just a kid in a foamhead costume?

Special needs Tweet of the Day:
Philip Kippel ‏@kippelphilip223 23h
@DisneyatWork Man, I HATE WDWMagic! Almost everyone there is a pompous elitist change-hating @$$-hole!

(Seriously, the boy's rich mommy and daddy should get his off the Internet before he really gets himself in trouble!)

Disney, which is very proud of its two Food and Wine Fests, is actively looking to add another dining venue to the World Showcase and also is looking at upcharge events during regular operating hours.

See, that Russian pavilion at WS would never have worked out, after all.

From the "Did you know that George Kalogridis was a Boy Scout department?'' : http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/28/us/disney-pulls-boy-scouts-funding/ and another link here at: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/...boy-scouts-america-over-anti-gay-policy280214

Meant to post yesterday, but here's the official info on the new SDL/Pepsi Deal: http://www.twst.com/update/43635-pe...egic-alliance-with-pepsico-and-tingyi-holding

Y'all have MAGICal weekends!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Special needs Tweet of the Day:
Philip Kippel ‏@kippelphilip223 23h
@DisneyatWork Man, I HATE WDWMagic! Almost everyone there is a pompous elitist change-hating @$$-hole!

That's the best compliment I've ever had!

 

[jdmdisney99]

Special needs Tweet of the Day:
Philip Kippel ‏@kippelphilip223 23h
@DisneyatWork Man, I HATE WDWMagic! Almost everyone there is a pompous elitist change-hating @$$-hole!

(Seriously, the boy's rich mommy and daddy should get his off the Internet before he really gets himself in trouble!)

Clicking on his page and reading the posts he re-Tweets is actually quite funny.

 

[Clamman73]

That's the best compliment I've ever had!

 

[ford91exploder]

Spirited Friday Musings:

Yes, I'm not dead yet.

So, I know all those folks with their shadow government theories are crazy and all (yep, tinfoil mouse ears) BUT ... USA announces biggest defense cuts since pre-WWII last week. Vlad Putin decides to send a warship on an 'unscheduled' visit to Cuba that the media doesn't talk about. Then he decides to send forces into the Crimea. Talking war hawks are now comparing him to old Adolf on CNN. And, yeah, it all just seems so convenient.

Y'all have MAGICal weekends!

It's only the the US media which is not commenting on Uncle Vlad wanting to establish new naval and air bases in South America, Vietnam and Cuba. The rest of the world is somewhat concerned about the President's plans because nature abhors a vacuum and SOMETHING will always fill it.

Thought it was fascinating that the Olympic Mascots were the same as the 1980 Moscow Games Mascot's - A lot of symbolism which completely flew over the US Media's head.

 

[GoofGoof]

Clicking on his page and reading the posts he re-Tweets is actually quite funny.

Funny, but disturbing.

That's the best compliment I've ever had!

...and what's with lumping us in with MiceChat...those guys are soft

 

[Animaniac93-98]

and what's with lumping us in with MiceChat...

MAGIC rulz, MiceChat droolz!

(No, seriously. That site isn't what it used to be)

 

[Nubs70]

WDW onsite occupancy has declined from 89% in 2008, to 81% in 2012, to 79% in 2013.

They are building it and, in increasing numbers, people are not coming to WDW's hotels.

When you analyze a business, you don't look at the bottom line. You look at key indicators and look for trends in those indicators in an attempt to predict what will happen in the future.

It's the idea of monitoring orders of cardboard boxes because if companies are ordering more, then they must think business is about to tick up. If they are ordering less, then business is about to tick down.

In WDW's case, onsite stays represent the true luxury item, the predictor of future trends.

Guests still want to come to WDW and, in order to afford WDW's much higher ticket prices, have started to sacrifice onsite stays first.

Disney opened a new Value Resort hotel because they expected business was going to tick up as a result of MyMagic+.

Instead, WDW's onsite occupancy rate is down.

Last year, Orlando area hotel occupancy ticked up from 69% to 71%.

People want to vacation. They even want to vacation at WDW.

However, WDW's prices increasingly are pricing them out of the market.

It's a bad trend.

I see a fundamental disconnect between what WDW wants and what the customer wants. WDW, acting primarily as a hotel centric enterprise, wants to fill their hotels by offering their secondary enterprise, the parks. The primary revenue stream is made up of DVC and overpriced hotel rooms with secondary income derived from park tickets and mercy, etc.

The customer wants to primarily visit the parks with secondary want of staying on site. The customer is willing to sacrifice their secondary want in order achieve the primary want of visiting the parks. This creates the situation for WDW where the customer is willing to sidestep WDW' s primary goal. WDW and the customer are not aligned and this is to the detriment of WDW as it is the customer pays the bills.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I like what @ParentsOf4 said, it's a question of sustainability. Sure the parks have been doing good numbers. Can it last though? Many people are paying higher ticket prices, but cutting costs everywhere else such as bringing their or own food and staying offsite.

WDW's current trends are going to last a while. WDW is years away from reaching a tipping point unless Universal goes for the jugular or economic conditions worsen. U.S. car manufacturers would still be making gas-guzzling clunkers if not for external market forces. It was those market forces that forced Detroit to produce a better product, not any internal soul-searching.

That's what made Walt Disney so special. He drove himself to make a better product. Today's WDW is leeching off the reputation of a man who has been dead for nearly 50 years.

Burbank is going to keep insisting that WDW makes its numbers and, after the MyMagic+ debacle, is going to be hesitant to invest heavily again in WDW.

This means:

- Continued higher prices
- Continued quality cuts
- Continued park stagnation
- A growing number of families unable to afford WDW

In other words, no end in sight.

"Best in class" has been replaced with "good enough".

We'll get Star Wars Land eventually but it will be painfully slow, like New Fantasyland and Pandora.

To fully restore WDW to its former grandeur will take billions, something that's not going to happen with Disney's current executive management.

We'll still have those defending WDW, writing "it's worth every penny", "I don't let the little stuff bother me", "WDW doesn't need new rides, it needs a Frozen overlay on Maelstrom and another meet & greet", and their favorite "if you don't like it (or can't afford it), don't go".

We'll get those saying it's OK for four theme parks to go years between additions. At the current pace, MK's next attraction will be in 2030.

Unless we get a Hall of the Frozen Presidents before then.

It's going to get worse before it gets better. If it gets better.

That's the part that saddens me the most.