The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[The Empress Lilly]

Walt Disney wanted to provide world class service and make a buck by doing so.

Michael Eisner wanted to make a buck by providing world class service.

Bob Iger wants to make a buck.

That is not my take.

Eisner gave us DCA and WDSP, destroyed EPCOT, ended the dreams of the Florida project for McDonald's and sprawling motels, let the existing parks rot and be turned into malls, and made the Disney animation brand synonymous with direct-to-video crapquels.

Iger is still cleaning up Eisner's mess, at the expense of billions upon billions. Luckily, Iger's project of making Disney a world class brand again is now slowly paying off, but it has come with a hefty price tag.

 

[ParentsOf4]

That is not my take.

Eisner gave us DCA and WDSP, destroyed EPCOT, ended the dreams of the Florida project for McDonald's and sprawling motels, let the existing parks rot and be turned into malls, and made the Disney animation brand synonymous with direct-to-video crapquels.

Iger is still cleaning up Eisner's mess, at the expense of billions upon billions. Luckily, Iger's project of making Disney a quality brand again is now slowly paying off, but it has come with a hefty price tag.

What Eisner shared with Walt Disney was a desire (ego) to be 'the best'. Eisner's great difference was that he was more focused on making money, willing to cut corners and hurry projects to make that buck.

Eisner gave us Disney-MGM Studios, Disney's Animal Kingdom, Typhoon Lagoon, Blizzard Beach, Pleasure Island, numerous attractions, Moderate & Value Resorts, and more. Eisner transformed WDW from 2 theme parks into a complete vacation destination.

In 9 years, Iger has given us Toy Story Mania and the New Fantasyland.

Iger took Eisner's willingness to cut corners in order to make a buck and turned it into WDW's mantra.

In many people's opinion, WDW is worse today than it was in 2005, Eisner's last year.

Iger has been CEO for 9 years. Iger has taken an ax to Disney's Parks & Resorts capex budget, with the lowest P&R investments vs. P&R revenue ratio of any Disney CEO.

I don't see anyone rushing to clean up "Eisner's mess" in Orlando.

 

[Goofyernmost]

@Goofyernmost you know the players here, you know what this thread is about. Being nice as I can I think you should start your own thread and chat about all things Disney till your hearts desire. Because you call 74 out do you think that too will make a difference. But yet you take it upon yourself to do it. But you don't want him calling out Disney?......HUH? Its his opinion, its his thread. Cracks me up when people get there panties in a wad knowing what content exist here.

You are correct. They only reason why I do this is because 74 doesn't express himself as an opinion. He comes across as knowing all the facts. Many of the readers on this board take whatever he says as gospel. I never have an issue with the content of his posts. They are interesting and often factual, however, when he starts feeling the need to attack, insult and put down all those that disagree with him, then I take issue. Or as you say, get my panties in a wad. So I intend to call him on that crap. It is unnecessary, condescending and something that to me instantly detracts from whatever he says. If you have facts, state them, but, there is no need to dump on the things that others enjoy, just because he doesn't.

He hates it when I call it bullying, but, it is mental bullying in its purest form. How many are afraid to contradict him because they are "afraid" of his responses as well of those of his band of merry men? Even something as small as calling things "Walmarting" is another form of it. The message is that anyone that goes to Walmart is lower then a fossil fart. Somehow he manages to turn one of the most successful retail organizations in the world into something bad. I go to Walmart because I can save money there. If someone thinks that spending three times as much for exactly the same product, just to be seen as elite, to me are the ones worthy of ridicule. So, I will take your advice and leave this thread alone. Sure wouldn't want to offend the gods, but, it really is because I'm tired of beating my head against a wall, since no one seems to appreciate the effort.

 

[Travel Junkie]

That is not my take.

Eisner gave us DCA and WDSP, destroyed EPCOT, ended the dreams of the Florida project for McDonald's and sprawling motels, let the existing parks rot and be turned into malls, and made the Disney animation brand synonymous with direct-to-video crapquels.

Iger is still cleaning up Eisner's mess, at the expense of billions upon billions. Luckily, Iger's project of making Disney a world class brand again is now slowly paying off, but it has come with a hefty price tag.

WDSP and DCA were 2nd gates that had to happen. If I’m not mistaken, Disney was obligated to create a 2nd gate in Paris within a certain timeframe. Due to various reasons their hand was also forced to create a 2nd gate in Anaheim as well. When Westcot became too expensive and impractical, they ended up with DCA 1.0. While they were forced to build, they were not allowed to spend a lot of money. As a result we got what we got.

This should serve as a lesson to Disney. In the future, take the time and money to build it right the first time or you eventually end up paying for in down the road.

 

[ford91exploder]

What Eisner shared with Walt Disney was a desire (ego) to be 'the best'. Eisner's great difference was that he was more focused on making money, willing to cut corners and hurry projects to make that buck.

Eisner gave us Disney-MGM Studios, Disney's Animal Kingdom, Typhoon Lagoon, Blizzard Beach, Pleasure Island, numerous attractions, Moderate & Value Resorts, and more. Eisner transformed WDW from 2 theme parks into a complete vacation destination.

In 9 years, Iger has given us Toy Story Mania and the New Fantasyland.

Iger took Eisner's willingness to cut corners in order to make a buck and turned it into WDW's mantra.

In many people's opinion, WDW is worse today than it was in 2005, Eisner's last year.

Iger has been CEO for 9 years. Iger has taken an ax to Disney's Parks & Resorts capex budget, with the lowest P&R investments vs. P&R revenue ratio of any Disney CEO.

I don't see anyone rushing to clean up "Eisner's mess" in Orlando.

The mess was caused by Eisner's 'Strategic Planning' group

But I do see a desire to make the mess worse - especially with the frontrunners being finance only guys. (Rasulo and Staggs)

 

[The Empress Lilly]

What Eisner shared with Walt Disney was a desire (ego) to be 'the best'. Eisner's great difference was that he was more focused on making money, willing to cut corners and hurry projects to make that buck.

Eisner gave us Disney-MGM Studios, Disney's Animal Kingdom, Typhoon Lagoon, Blizzard Beach, Pleasure Island, numerous attractions, Moderate & Value Resorts, and more. Eisner transformed WDW from 2 theme parks into a complete vacation destination.

In 9 years, Iger has given us Toy Story Mania and the New Fantasyland.

Iger took Eisner's willingness to cut corners in order to make a buck and turned it into WDW's mantra.

In many people's opinion, WDW is worse today than it was in 2005, Eisner's last year.

Iger has been CEO for 9 years. Iger has taken an ax to Disney's Parks & Resorts capex budget, with the lowest P&R investments vs. P&R revenue ratio of any Disney CEO.

I don't see anyone rushing to clean up "Eisner's mess" in Orlando.

There always seem to be two Eisners, before and after 1994. Eisner's first decade was by and large positive, the second disastrous. Did the death of Wells mean all the difference?

For WDW too there seems to be a clear dividing line in 94. After 94, nearly every decision was cheap, uninspired, or even ridiculous. The EPCOTalypse started. (Why do people decry the destruction of Horizons and World of Motion for thrill rides, and Imagination and Energy for the stupid version of theirselves, while singing the praise of Eisner?). The MK was turned into toddler toon town. DAK was hopelessly underbuild. The WDW property was misdeveloped like a random suburban space anywhere else in Florida (so much for a project that started as America's largest urban experiment!). Worst of all, in an act of infamy exemplary for Eisner post-94, the Empress Lilly was sold for scraps and turned into a seafood restaurant you find in any suburban mall!


Iger's first and largest priorities to clean up Eisner's mess were elsewhere, from fixing the DL resort to rebuilding Disney into Hollywood's most phenomenal movie studio to buying Pixar because Eisner slept while everybody else moved on and found himself without a proper cgi animation studio.

As for WDW, yes, you're right, it feels a bit like the forgotten stepchild compared to the massive efforts undertaken elsewhere. But the MK is recently heavily invested in. Cleaning up Eisner's ripping out of 20k for a kiddie playground is expensive! DAK is following suit, finally being turned into a real park. The rank mess that was made of the Lake Buena Vista area - turned by Eisner from an elegant lakeside shopping and dining area to a crass ghetto strip - is being tackled in one large all-encompassing program. Eisner plain East-Germanificated WDW, leaving large ruins and unfinished projects everywhere, such as River Country, the Pop resort, Discovery Island, and dead spaces within the parks. Many of whom have been cleaned up now, for example with the AoA and the removal of the Skyway ruins that were left in plain sight. DHS, left in a deplorable identity crisis by Eisner, will see a large investment sooner rather than later.

What Iger hasn't been able to clean up, nor seems particularly interested in, is Eisner's transformation of Disney from a mid-sized quality based creative enterprise to a cynical, mean and a sorry money grabbing machine. But at least he gives you a quality experience in return, Cars Land and Tangled instead of Tiki: Under New Management and Cinderella II: Dreams Come True.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

You are correct. They only reason why I do this is because 74 doesn't express himself as an opinion. He comes across as knowing all the facts. Many of the readers on this board take whatever he says as gospel. I never have an issue with the content of his posts. They are interesting and often factual, however, when he starts feeling the need to attack, insult and put down all those that disagree with him, then I take issue. Or as you say, get my panties in a wad. So I intend to call him on that crap. It is unnecessary, condescending and something that to me instantly detracts from whatever he says. If you have facts, state them, but, there is no need to dump on the things that others enjoy, just because he doesn't.

He hates it when I call it bullying, but, it is mental bullying in its purest form. How many are afraid to contradict him because they are "afraid" of his responses as well of those of his band of merry men? Even something as small as calling things "Walmarting" is another form of it. The message is that anyone that goes to Walmart is lower then a fossil fart. Somehow he manages to turn one of the most successful retail organizations in the world into something bad. I go to Walmart because I can save money there. If someone thinks that spending three times as much for exactly the same product, just to be seen as elite, to me are the ones worthy of ridicule. So, I will take your advice and leave this thread alone. Sure wouldn't want to offend the gods, but, it really is because I'm tired of beating my head against a wall, since no one seems to appreciate the effort.

Stay, stay! I hate echo chambers. I want to see lazy consensus challenged, not confirmed. I love your diverging opinion, especially when you serve it with a dash of subversion.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

WDSP and DCA were 2nd gates that had to happen. If I’m not mistaken, Disney was obligated to create a 2nd gate in Paris within a certain timeframe. Due to various reasons their hand was also forced to create a 2nd gate in Anaheim as well. When Westcot became too expensive and impractical, they ended up with DCA 1.0. While they were forced to build, they were not allowed to spend a lot of money. As a result we got what we got.

This should serve as a lesson to Disney. In the future, take the time and money to build it right the first time or you eventually end up paying for in down the road.

You might like today's image on my blog. It shows one element of the California expansion that never made it to groundbreaking.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

WDSP and DCA were 2nd gates that had to happen. If I’m not mistaken, Disney was obligated to create a 2nd gate in Paris within a certain timeframe. Due to various reasons their hand was also forced to create a 2nd gate in Anaheim as well. When Westcot became too expensive and impractical, they ended up with DCA 1.0. While they were forced to build, they were not allowed to spend a lot of money. As a result we got what we got.

This should serve as a lesson to Disney. In the future, take the time and money to build it right the first time or you eventually end up paying for in down the road.

Sure. But pre-Eisner Disney twice gambled everything on DL and EPCOT and twice gave us the world's greatest parks. Whereas Eisner controlled a large entertainment conglomerate and build DCA and WDSP.

Eisner is not a victim of circumstance, he created his own constraints and possibilities. OLC for their part showed Eisner how to do it: simply get your act together so you can get your funds. Iger too doesn't seem to be lacking for any credit. He can finance anything he wants - he too has got his act together. The difference is DCA by Eisner, and TDS by the Disney park not controlled by Eisner. And the difference between Eisner and Iger is WDSP and DCA vs. Shanghai and DCA 2.0.

And yes, Iger/Disney does seem to have learned their lesson from Eisner's cheapification of Disney: if you underbuild it, they will not come.

 

[ParentsOf4]

There always seem to be two Eisners, before and after 1994. Eisner's first decade was by and large positive, the second disastrous. Did the death of Wells mean all the difference?

I understand why many point to Wells' death as a dividing line.

The reality was that Wells worked closely with Eisner to force out WDW's Old Guard. By the end of 1994, there was no one left at WDW in a position of power who truly believed in Walt Disney's 'show first' vision. It simply took time for the quality cuts that had started before then to become appreciably noticeable to guests.

Really though, 9/11 was the dividing line. At least corporate Disney remained seriously committed to P&R investments up through 9/11.

With massive vacation cancellations after 9/11, WDW was forced to go into survival mode. However, by 2004 and 2005, P&R investments were once again on the rise under Eisner.

What Iger did when he took over towards the end of 2005 was to slash P&R investments to below post-9/11 levels, where they remained for several years.

Today's corporate Disney still runs the Parks & Resorts segment largely as if it were 2002.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

DisneyToon Studios is almost dead.
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2014/08/layoffs-at-toons.html

 

[lazyboy97o]

WDSP and DCA were 2nd gates that had to happen. If I’m not mistaken, Disney was obligated to create a 2nd gate in Paris within a certain timeframe. Due to various reasons their hand was also forced to create a 2nd gate in Anaheim as well. When Westcot became too expensive and impractical, they ended up with DCA 1.0. While they were forced to build, they were not allowed to spend a lot of money. As a result we got what we got.

This should serve as a lesson to Disney. In the future, take the time and money to build it right the first time or you eventually end up paying for in down the road.

Both of those were due to Disney being cheap and playing games. WestCOT became too expensive for Disney because Disney started off by playing games with Anaheim and Long Beach. Euro Disney SCA remains saddled with massive debt because Euro Disneyland was almost entirely financed unlike prior projects which were significantly or totally paid for with cash. The two also shared a lot of overblown promises to the respective governments.

Iger's first and largest priorities to clean up Eisner's mess were elsewhere, from fixing the DL resort to rebuilding Disney into Hollywood's most phenomenal movie division to buying Pixar because Eisner slept while everybody else moved on.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but I am still convinced that the Disneyland Resort would not have seen the massive investment without the pressure from the City of Anaheim. Even then, the money that is being poured is overly self-referential and complete denial of the proper place of themed entertainment. It's the same awful view of the medium that is totally lacking in respect, just more expensive and ornamented. Igor also is quite proud of being a Wall Street darling, and far too many in the financial analysis world seem keen on the idea of one of the Strategic Planning Boys, Staggs and Rasulo, becoming the next CEO.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

DisneyToon Studios is almost dead.
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2014/08/layoffs-at-toons.html

Wow, so they really expected Planes 2 to make or surpass Planes (original) ? That's setting the bar pretty high, no? I don't see this as a big shock to anyone... and for once, the folks in the comment section are dead-on.

 

[FigmentJedi]

DisneyToon Studios is almost dead.
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2014/08/layoffs-at-toons.html

It's a shame. The post-Eisner restructuring of the division into a spinoff producer had a lot of promise and the Tink movies that came out of said restructure were actually pretty good. I just wish we got that Seven Dwarfs origin story project instead of Planes and 7D though.
http://animatedviews.com/2013/mike-...-the-snow-white-prequel-became-a-dopey-movie/

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I hope Disney has bigger plans for Star Wars ...than this. This is sad.

(photo by MintCrocodile/Magic Eye)

 

[marni1971]

WDSP and DCA were 2nd gates that had to happen. If I’m not mistaken, Disney was obligated to create a 2nd gate in Paris within a certain timeframe.

They were. But instead of the big and planned to grow DMGM-Europe they went with a cheap ( but still overinflated) WDSP. Eisner actually said on the eve of opening maybe it was too small.

I won't go into detail about corners cut at WDSP in 2002 but it is still paying - in more than one way - today and is only now getting anywhere near a full (compressed) day.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Side side note..... I was a part of the Disney Dining Experience as far back as 04. I did not renew Tables in Wonderland as I finally had enough of restrictions, shrinking menus and increasing prices. Just has enough of it.

So you don't dine at any TS restaurants now? or just not often enough to justify the cost?

 

[Mike S]

DisneyToon Studios is almost dead.
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2014/08/layoffs-at-toons.html

Good riddance.

 

[Cody5242]

Who was the person here that said Planes 2 was going to destroy How To Train Your Dragon 2?

 

[ford91exploder]

I understand why many point to Wells' death as a dividing line.

The reality was that Wells worked closely with Eisner to force out WDW's Old Guard. By the end of 1994, there was no one left at WDW in a position of power who truly believed in Walt Disney's 'show first' vision. It simply took time for the quality cuts that had started before then to become appreciably noticeable to guests.

Really though, 9/11 was the dividing line. At least corporate Disney remained seriously committed to P&R investments up through 9/11.

With massive vacation cancellations after 9/11, WDW was forced to go into survival mode. However, by 2004 and 2005, P&R investments were once again on the rise under Eisner.

What Iger did when he took over towards the end of 2005 was to slash P&R investments to below post-9/11 levels, where they remained for several years.

Today's corporate Disney still runs the Parks & Resorts segment largely as if it were 2002.

And because people STILL go to the parks they continue to cut P&R investment and depend upon international one timers. Due to that there is no NEED to invest more in the parks. If for any reason they lose the international travellers WDW is going to be in a world of hurt because UNI has the mindshare among the younger demographic. I coach a FIRST robotics team and the kids want to go to UNIVERSAL as 'Disney is for little kids'...

IF the TEA numbers are to be believed UNI has surpassed one and perhaps two of WDW's parks attendance numbers. The short lines - well UNI's attractions were meant as people eaters and without huge FP counts to mess up the queues the lines function as designed.

An example is pre FP HM it had lots of people but the lines were always short because of the ride's inherent characteristics. Let's face it FP was an abomination right from v 1.0 and in large part CAUSED the huge standby waits.