The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Spirited Friday Afternoon Musings:

So, UNI is touting the HE ridership while WDW is telling people they can't even stand in line for attractions or to purchase crappy QS food. Yes, I do get why the UNI fanbois are crowing.

A quiet Friday in the dog days of summer (or as we Floridians call it -- Back to School and Football Pre-Season) and some folks want to have another Iger vs. Eisner discussion. Everyone knows my feelings on this, but since MDE has been sorta in my orbit this week, I feel like spreading some facts.

If you are a fan of the WDW of today ... of anything from DVC to DAK Lodge ... from BB to Stitch ... from DCL to ESPN ... from EE (with or without Disco Yeti) to Napa Rose ... from Soarin over California to the California Grill (either of them) ... from DLP to TDS ... from Port Orleans to Fantasmic in NoS ... well, you are a fan of Michael Eisner's or you should be.

Hell, he actually planned for monorail expansion multiple times!

The facts speak for themselves. Michael (and Frank and Roy and MANY talented folks under them) made the Disney that you love, the one that you might even have an unhealthy attachment to.

Bob Iger has not cleaned up most of the messes that Michael admittedly left behind. Indeed, he has bought into the worst of Michael's tenure and made it look pretty by becoming a Wall Street centerfold (yeah, that reference is going to be lost on fanbois in the iPhone era!)

It is very easy to purchase the talents and creations of others versus actually making things, creating art yourself. Pixar, I'll almost give a pass on since they have always been an extension of Disney and they didn't have the options some people think they did. But Marvel and Lucasfilm were simply Bob taking billions of dollars and saying ''We can't create, so we'll acquire.''

There's no arguing that some major flaws in P&R also started showing up under Eisner, certainly the destruction of EPCOT began with Test Track's debut (of course, most people here love that). And the decision to not invest in keeping PI and its clubs/venues fresh began under Michael. Shuttering RC and DI ... check.

But anyone looking at the Big Picture would be foolish to think that Iger has been some prince riding to the rescue of a kingdom in trouble.

And I do realize how endless and lame this whole discussion can become.

But the numbers that @ParentsOf4 has graciously (and tirelessly! :) ) come up with show just how poorly Iger has treated P&R. And WDW has seen the absolute worst of his business model. I could see someone in Anaheim or Hong Kong giving him some props, but at WDW? ***Note: To be fair, Iger had NO CHOICE about investing in DCA and HKDL, so don't give him too much credit there and he cut corners as much as possible.

The worst of MDE at WDW came after 9/11, but it was also the best. He allowed the resort to remain open daily and run. ... And as soon as the travel turnaround began, he had new product in the pipeline (of varying quality, but not the point).

When it comes to investing in the parks, Iger would rather buy billions of dollars of stock back.

There is NO faith in Disney's product (this isn't simply P&R, look at how unprepared they were for Frozen's success to tell you what they thought of that little film).

He is beyond a tease with fanbois over putting Star Wars (or anything -- see the 6 1/2 years Pandora is taking!) into the parks. There is no good reason why construction on various projects didn't start long, long ago.

NGE is the ultimate in Iger cynicism: it exists to extract more $$$ from existing guests/fans/chronics/addicts and first-timers because that is easier and less risky (short term) than what Comcast is doing with its parks.

Bob is ... a typical manager in 21st century Big Business ... that may be fine for Wall Street, but for a MAGIC factory like TWDC it is terrible. And most of that damage is long term and the kind that he'll be long gone when it has to be dealt with.

And if he gets his way and Rasulo or Staggs becomes the next head of the company, forget about anything getting much better. You'll look back at years like 1995 or1999 or even 2005 like they were a Golden Age.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
It's just way too easy to use South Park memes to describe Walt Disney World's current situation.
image.jpg
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Maybe we should thank Universal for waking Disney up some.
Universal announces in 2007 Potter is coming to Florida.
Since then:

Disney announced New Fantasyland in 2009
Disney announced Avatar Pandora in 2011
Disney announced Downtown Disney Expansion in 2013
If every two years holds true...Disney is about to announce a Major Major addition:
Disney will announce Star Wars at DHS in 2015

I would then assume Disney will announce in 2017 something with Epcot.

Slowly Disney is stepping up their game. WDW in 2020 will be awesome!
Disney announced NFL in 2009 and finally got it open in 2014 (5 years). They announced Avatar in 2011 and isn't scheduled to open until 2017 (6 years). And DTD/PI has been boarded up since 2008 with a completion date of 2016 (8 years).

Buckle your seatbelts and hold on to your hats, Disney is on quite the construction tear.
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
Bob is ... a typical manager in 21st century Big Business ... that may be fine for Wall Street, but for a MAGIC factory like TWDC it is terrible. And most of that damage is long term and the kind that he'll be long gone when it has to be dealt with.

And if he gets his way and Rasulo or Staggs becomes the next head of the company, forget about anything getting much better. You'll look back at years like 1995 or1999 or even 2005 like they were a Golden Age.

WDP - Disney under Walt/Roy/Card/Ron
TWDC - Disney under Mike
$DIS - Disney under 'Uncle Bob'.
 

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
Disney announced NFL in 2009 and finally got it open in 2014 (5 years). They announced Avatar in 2011 and isn't scheduled to open until 2017 (6 years). And DTD/PI has been boarded up since 2008 with a completion date of 2016 (8 years).

Buckle your seatbelts and hold on to your hats, Disney is on quite the construction tear.

Hey...I agree, it's slow but they are building and it is coming. Some really cool stuff is coming. But yeah...sssllooowwlllyyy.
I find it interesting Disney is on this every two year announcement thing. So, it does look like we are going to get a very cool Star Wars announcement next year in 2015.

Take what you can get...can't fight it, Disney isn't going to change but they are building and Disney in 2020 is going to be cool. My girls will be 8 by then, great time to visit Disney again.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I will basically refrain from responding. Not because I am afraid of the big bad wolf ( him and I have had our differences.....but I still like the guy). He doesn't need me to defend him. What I will respond to....is the prase "Walmarting" it has zero to do with people who go there or any reference there of. It is the way WDW has been discounted. The way it has been homogenized. The reason why the prices are so cheap is because there are no frills. Its basic....you get a price you stand in line you pay and you leave. There is very little customer service. I think even 74 might have shopped at a Wal-Mart once or twice. You are taking it way to personal. Is 74's delivery....not every ones cup of tea? No. It certainly isn't for the faint of heart. Yes he can be caustic....yes he can be divisive. But that's his schtick....even I raise an eyebrow at some of the things he says but I never take it personal.
In an effort to be nice I actually will just let a couple of those comments pass. I do see it completely differently then you. That's OK, that's what discussion forums are for. Let's just say we agree to disagree.
 

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
Spirited Friday Afternoon Musings:

So, UNI is touting the HE ridership while WDW is telling people they can't even stand in line for attractions or to purchase crappy QS food. Yes, I do get why the UNI fanbois are crowing.

It is very easy to purchase the talents and creations of others versus actually making things, creating art yourself. Pixar, I'll almost give a pass on since they have always been an extension of Disney and they didn't have the options some people think they did. But Marvel and Lucasfilm were simply Bob taking billions of dollars and saying ''We can't create, so we'll acquire.''


Have to say Disney has done an outstanding job so far with the IPs they have purchased. Disney could have bought those properties and destroyed them. The Fantastic Four comes to mind. As you know it's not easy to make a film...well, it's not easy for me to make a film. There are some talented people out there. Disney is doing a great job nurturing that talent and getting the best out of them.

I really enjoyed Guardians of the Galaxy and have so far been impressed with the handling of Marvel.

Pixar has been a great move and they keep churning out some pretty solid features and I love their short features.

Disney has turned a corner recently with their own animation department. Tangled, Wreck it Ralph, Frozen have been very solid. So, I can't say that they can't create...they have, and have created a monster with Frozen.

Buying Lucasfilm....I'm betting they won't screw that up. They have so far handled that IP with utmost respect.

Looks like they are also following the lead of Universal who purchased the rights to create Potter Land.
Disney is creating Avatar and soon...well, soon if you are using a beginning of time type of timeline, Star Wars will be coming. (with a beginning of time timeline, Star Wars will be built in a blink of an eye, all about perspective!)

Universal didn't create the IP known as Harry Potter but have done an amazing job bringing it to life.
I'm sure Avatar and Star Wars will be pretty amazing lands to explore.
I'm just happy all this is happening. We might be in a golden age and we don't know it yet.

I have my faults with Disney but I like the direction they have gone recently with their film division and slowly with their parks in WDW. I'm thinking 2020 will be a cool time to visit the parks.
You said that in one of your posts sometime back. That WDW will be a cool place to visit in 2020. I believe you are right!
 
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PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
A sidenote on Park attendance…

Even if Epcot, Hollywood studios, and animal Kingdom are only pulling 20 or 25,000 guests a day? Magic Kingdom still averages 50,000 from last years estimates. So Disney is still pulling the grand total of 125+k spread unevenly over 4 parks.

I would not want to be anywhere near interstate four if universal ever pulls over hundred thousand guests… It would paralyze the area. The infrastructure isn't there for that many guests.
 

EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
Spirited Friday Afternoon Musings:

So, UNI is touting the HE ridership while WDW is telling people they can't even stand in line for attractions or to purchase crappy QS food. Yes, I do get why the UNI fanbois are crowing.

A quiet Friday in the dog days of summer (or as we Floridians call it -- Back to School and Football Pre-Season) and some folks want to have another Iger vs. Eisner discussion. Everyone knows my feelings on this, but since MDE has been sorta in my orbit this week, I feel like spreading some facts.

If you are a fan of the WDW of today ... of anything from DVC to DAK Lodge ... from BB to Stitch ... from DCL to ESPN ... from EE (with or without Disco Yeti) to Napa Rose ... from Soarin over California to the California Grill (either of them) ... from DLP to TDS ... from Port Orleans to Fantasmic in NoS ... well, you are a fan of Michael Eisner's or you should be.

Hell, he actually planned for monorail expansion multiple times!

The facts speak for themselves. Michael (and Frank and Roy and MANY talented folks under them) made the Disney that you love, the one that you might even have an unhealthy attachment to.

Bob Iger has not cleaned up most of the messes that Michael admittedly left behind. Indeed, he has bought into the worst of Michael's tenure and made it look pretty by becoming a Wall Street centerfold (yeah, that reference is going to be lost on fanbois in the iPhone era!)

It is very easy to purchase the talents and creations of others versus actually making things, creating art yourself. Pixar, I'll almost give a pass on since they have always been an extension of Disney and they didn't have the options some people think they did. But Marvel and Lucasfilm were simply Bob taking billions of dollars and saying ''We can't create, so we'll acquire.''

There's no arguing that some major flaws in P&R also started showing up under Eisner, certainly the destruction of EPCOT began with Test Track's debut (of course, most people here love that). And the decision to not invest in keeping PI and its clubs/venues fresh began under Michael. Shuttering RC and DI ... check.

But anyone looking at the Big Picture would be foolish to think that Iger has been some prince riding to the rescue of a kingdom in trouble.

And I do realize how endless and lame this whole discussion can become.

But the numbers that @ParentsOf4 has graciously (and tirelessly! :) ) come up with show just how poorly Iger has treated P&R. And WDW has seen the absolute worst of his business model. I could see someone in Anaheim or Hong Kong giving him some props, but at WDW? ***Note: To be fair, Iger had NO CHOICE about investing in DCA and HKDL, so don't give him too much credit there and he cut corners as much as possible.

The worst of MDE at WDW came after 9/11, but it was also the best. He allowed the resort to remain open daily and run. ... And as soon as the travel turnaround began, he had new product in the pipeline (of varying quality, but not the point).

When it comes to investing in the parks, Iger would rather buy billions of dollars of stock back.

There is NO faith in Disney's product (this isn't simply P&R, look at how unprepared they were for Frozen's success to tell you what they thought of that little film).

He is beyond a tease with fanbois over putting Star Wars (or anything -- see the 6 1/2 years Pandora is taking!) into the parks. There is no good reason why construction on various projects didn't start long, long ago.

NGE is the ultimate in Iger cynicism: it exists to extract more $$$ from existing guests/fans/chronics/addicts and first-timers because that is easier and less risky (short term) than what Comcast is doing with its parks.

Bob is ... a typical manager in 21st century Big Business ... that may be fine for Wall Street, but for a MAGIC factory like TWDC it is terrible. And most of that damage is long term and the kind that he'll be long gone when it has to be dealt with.

And if he gets his way and Rasulo or Staggs becomes the next head of the company, forget about anything getting much better. You'll look back at years like 1995 or1999 or even 2005 like they were a Golden Age.
Sad but all too true. It would be nice to think that Iger wanted to improve DCA and HKDL for guest satisfaction. The truth is, as with most all companies with poorly performing investments, Iger approved the expansion/improvements to increase the bottom line of two sorely underperforming parks. And both had pressure from the respective governments pushing this to happen.
 

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