The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[doctornick]

Re DLR and Star Wars buildout in Tomorrowland- there's not a single attraction in all of Tomorrowland that I would really truly miss. The closest is Space Mountain, which could easily be reworked. If they have to get rid of all of them and start from scratch, I say go for it.

Also, the thing is that if they were going to put Star Wars in its own unique land at DLR -- something that I think it reasonable if they can piece together enough space -- then they either would have to move Star Tours or else have it as an odd outlier not with the rest of the land.

 

[lazyboy97o]

TEA doesn't actually count people going into the parks. If the theme park companies don't provide actual numbers, which Disney doesn't, the TEA uses various methods to figure out the estimated attendance.

It is not actually the TEA doing the estimates, they hire AECOM Economics, which is part of a large conglomerate. AECOM Economics actually bought Economics Research Associates, the company that was founded by Buzz Price following the opening of Disneyland. While Price left Economics Research Associates in the late 1960s, its not as though this is a group without any history in the field and stumbling in the dark.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I normally only lurk here, and just got home from a week away, but I wanted to stop in and thank everyone (especially WDW1974 -- I'm a big fan!) for all your feedback. As I admitted upfront, my column was "entertainment purposes only" and intended for a general audience that isn't as plugged into the theme park world as the people here.

Specifically regarding Hogwarts Express/Animal Kingdom, all I said is that on many days (not all) of the 4 weeks Diagon Alley has been open, total HE ridership has exceeded DAK gate clicks. I have a couple trusted sources on this (who must remain confidential for obvious reasons). I've also personally spent hours on the train platforms timing dispatches platform and monitoring crowd flow (yes, I've traveled from London to Scotland and back more times than a Hogwarts post-grad student) and I have access to reliable crowd data through TouringPlans. Of course, until official numbers are released I respect anyone's right to disagree, but before you dismiss me consider these publicly confirmable facts:

* Universal was running HE from 7am to to 10pm from the day after Diagon opened until August 1. (Now it's starting around 7:30.)
* The 2 trains each carry 168 passengers, and even when there is only a 10 minute wait nearly every train is dispatched full (or close to it).
*Dispatch times have been far quicker than originally anticipated. Uni initially hoped for 8 minute cycles, but the TMs have been averaging 7:30 or better. I've personally seen >7, and they keep getting more consistent with experience.

Doing the math, 8 dispatches an hour gets them a total THRC of 2688; I'd wager they've been hitting 2,500 on a regular basis, which translates to a daily ridership of well over 30k. TEA/AECOM estimated DAK's 2013 attendance at 10.198 mil, which is a daily average of just under 27k.

As for what those facts mean, I agree that it's comparing apples to oranges, but I think it makes an interesting metaphor for the current state of the local market, and serves to dispel the speculation that guests were balking at paying the increased park-to-park premium (which IMHO was as much intended to dampen HE demand as boost revenue).

Finally, as to me being a Universal "homer," I'm a past Uni TM (they fired me more than once) and admit that their recent expansions appeal more to my tastes than anything Disney has added recently. But if your read the body of my writing, you'll see I'm constructively critical and appreciative of both company's products in a fairly evenhanded way. I write a mostly positive (though Unofficial) guidebook to Disneyland, I visit WDW weekly, and I even have a 1st edition Abram's Epcot book on my coffee table. I certainly am not biased against Disney, and I don't want Disney to become Universal. I just want WDW to be the best resort it can be, and know it is capable of more than we've seen for the last decade.

Thanks again for reading, and feel free to leave a comment on the Weekly's website too!

I appreciate the explanation Seth. Reading your stuff on occasion I find it to be well balanced and honest.

I’m sure the comparison was meant to be an attention grabber. It sparked debate about the greater issue that Uni has greatly improved their parks and people are responding favorably to it by showing up in large numbers and that’s a good thing. At the same time there are valid criticisms that were addressed already in this thread so I won’t rehash.

You may also want to tell your friends in the Twitterverse that part of putting something out there in the public is being critiqued. Parkscope and others seemed to take a critique on your article specifically and generally anything they or their friends put out there very personally. It is a how dare you question what I’m saying attitude and take it as a personal insult. Everything out there should be scrutinized and if people can’t handle their work being criticized, they should stop putting stuff out there.

Anyway thank you again for the explanation and being open to hearing feedback.

 

[skubersky]

I appreciate the explanation Seth. Reading your stuff on occasion I find it to be well balanced and honest.

I’m sure the comparison was meant to be an attention grabber. It sparked debate about the greater issue that Uni has greatly improved their parks and people are responding favorably to it by showing up in large numbers and that’s a good thing. At the same time there are valid criticisms that were addressed already in this thread so I won’t rehash.

You may also want to tell your friends in the Twitterverse that part of putting something out there in the public is being critiqued. Parkscope and others seemed to take a critique on your article specifically and generally anything they or their friends put out there very personally. It is a how dare you question what I’m saying attitude and take it as a personal insult. Everything out there should be scrutinized and if people can’t handle their work being criticized, they should stop putting stuff out there.

Anyway thank you again for the explanation and being open to hearing feedback.

Thanks for that, VI! I just learned about the postings here after I flew home late last night, and only saw a few tweets which I honestly didn't intend to encourage.

I really welcome constructive criticism of my facts and analysis, and even my writing style -- keeping in mind I'm under a strict word limit for the newspaper, and sometimes have to compress complex concepts into catchy phrases.

The only thing I'm not crazy is words like crappy, ridiculous, or homer, which don't add anything to what is otherwise a reasonable argument.

 

[Cesar R M]

That seems very factual and straightforward. I'd like to see how that stands up against other attractions both the Universal and Disney resorts. Or the monorail, another transport attraction designed to take you from point a to point B.

but the monorail itself isnt counted as an attraction. isnt it?
Its mere transportation.
Hogwarts in the other hand.. as a show via screens / harry potter immersion.

 

[flynnibus]

As for what those facts mean, I agree that it's comparing apples to oranges, but I think it makes an interesting metaphor for the current state of the local market, and serves to dispel the speculation that guests were balking at paying the increased park-to-park premium (which IMHO was as much intended to dampen HE demand as boost revenue).

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your train of thought... (hehehe)

But as you say... it is a bit of apples and oranges... and reeks of the "Infographic" mentality so popular where people yearn to visualize numbers by comparing to other things.. even if they have no real correlation Reads like someone trying to make the graphic in the corner of USAToday

 

[Cesar R M]

Not outrageous at all. AK pulling 19k on a good day this Summer. Let's call HE 20k to keep the math easy.

Effectively two E-ticket rides, one from IoA, one from US, so cut that in half--10k ride either direction. (I agree most people riding one way or going to ride back eventually.) Divide that by 14 hours, with early open, 8 am - 10 pm. LESS THAN 1,000 GUESTS/HOUR.

As was mentioned earlier, PotC and HM can pull close to triple that if you don't bog them down with FastPass.

The real take-away? Universal is relatively busy--whether or not up to projections I don't know, tho I tend to doubt from the unused queue space and cheap rates at Cabana Bay. EPCOT and AK and Sea World are noticeably slow this Summer. DHS is surprisingly not as dead as it should be. To paraphrase Mike S, build new attractions, get more guests, even in a slow Summer. Or just be MK.

just a question. Why does the HE run needs to be cut in half? Doesn't it show different views depending which way you go? and therefore, count as a full attraction (going both sides)?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Not outrageous at all. AK pulling 19k on a good day this Summer. Let's call HE 20k to keep the math easy.

Effectively two E-ticket rides, one from IoA, one from US, so cut that in half--10k ride either direction. (I agree most people riding one way or going to ride back eventually.) Divide that by 14 hours, with early open, 8 am - 10 pm. LESS THAN 1,000 GUESTS/HOUR.

As was mentioned earlier, PotC and HM can pull close to triple that if you don't bog them down with FastPass.

The real take-away? Universal is relatively busy--whether or not up to projections I don't know, tho I tend to doubt from the unused queue space and cheap rates at Cabana Bay. EPCOT and AK and Sea World are noticeably slow this Summer. DHS is surprisingly not as dead as it should be. To paraphrase Mike S, build new attractions, get more guests, even in a slow Summer. Or just be MK.

I'm not arguing that HE Has a very high OHRC & handle 30k/day.

My point is that 30k isn't unique people. That's counting some of the same people twice. I want to know the unique clicks.

When we have 19k at DAK - not arguing that either - those would be unique clicks.

 

[PhotoDave219]

just a question. Why does the HE run needs to be cut in half? Doesn't it show different views depending which way you go? and therefore, count as a full attraction (going both sides)?

Yes, different show on each direction

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Universal announced today that the one millionth guest has ridden the Hogwarts Express. 200 complimentary Butterbeer ice creams were given out to celebrate the occasion.

 

[spacemt354]

WW is her own beast, so to speak - the struggles with her are well documented. But since she is in BvS and the introduction will be out of the way, I presume one of those movies will be a solo film for her.

They are not doing a Marvel by combining the TV and movie universes, they are keeping them intentionally separate (which is how we are getting Gotham this fall, and GA and Flash can co-exist), but the movie Universe indeed will be one shared universe. Besides the big trinity, there are at least two other major DC heroes that will be in BvS, supposedly - if not more. The subtitle of the film is kind of a clue - "Dawn of Justice" - as in, we will see the formation of the Justice League.

Basically, Man of Steel was the start - characters will be worked in and will likely have both solo films and full Justice League films. The films will be like Marvel, but the TV universes will exist independently. When you look at the stable of Justice League members, it's incredibly easy to fill in those 9 slots - you've got at least one full Justice League film in there, probably two, Man of Steel II, very likely a Wonder Woman - that's three or four right there. Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash...presumably at some point Batman will get a solo film. DC is finally taking this all very seriously - and I'm sure Marvel paving the way has helped quite a bit.

I just am skeptical how it will all work together on the big screen in a shared universe.

Man of Steel went for a very serious and dark take on Superman. That realistic tone works well for Batman in the Nolan films, but how will that tone mesh with more comic-booky characters like Aquaman? Green Lantern? Are they going to keep the same relative tone? Or are they going to change it up. If an Aquaman film comes out, it will be interesting to see how they can make a realistic tone out of someone who controls sea animals.

I feel like Man of Steel shouldn't have been the start of the universe. They didn't do enough to make it known that other superheros exist in the world. If Wonder Woman and Batman and others have been around for some time during Man of Steel...where were they when aliens threatened to destroy the planet?? There was an alien invasion in New York, and that assembled the Avengers.

IMO, Man of Steel was too action packed for its own good. How are they going to top the action in a Batman vs Superman team up? Or a Justice League film?

If they wanted to do a shared universe, Man of Steel should have set up other characters in the universe, like Lex Luthor, and should have ended with an image of Batman to segway into the next film. Now though, they have to provide backstory to both of those characters while shoehorning Wonder Woman and Cyborg in as well.

It just feels too rushed for me. They are trying to play catch-up to Marvel and I think they should simply take their time and focus on making good films first.

 

[Mike S]

Universal announced today that the one millionth guest has ridden the Hogwarts Express. 200 complimentary Butterbeer ice creams were given out to celebrate the occasion.

First they build amazing new attractions in a timely manner and now they're giving out free ice cream. Good times, good times

 

[britain]

My guess on the "Existing Area Reworked for Star Wars that hasn't been mentioned online yet" : Primeval World.

Combine that with Innoventions and Red Rockets, and that's a lot of real estate.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Universal announced today that the one millionth guest has ridden the Hogwarts Express. 200 complimentary Butterbeer ice creams were given out to celebrate the occasion.

But did they get to schedule out their ice cream enjoyment time 60 days ahead? Where's their magic bracelets?

And what do you mean by this "free" word? What is that?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Thanks for that, VI! I just learned about the postings here after I flew home late last night, and only saw a few tweets which I honestly didn't intend to encourage.

I really welcome constructive criticism of my facts and analysis, and even my writing style -- keeping in mind I'm under a strict word limit for the newspaper, and sometimes have to compress complex concepts into catchy phrases.

The only thing I'm not crazy is words like crappy, ridiculous, or homer, which don't add anything to what is otherwise a reasonable argument.

When you produce a substandard journalistic argument or comparison, I will always call someone out for it.

If you don't care for it, make better assertions. Be a better journalist.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

When you produce a substandard journalistic argument or comparison, I will always call someone out for it.

If you don't care for it, make better assertions. Be a better journalist.

Exactly, people who continually talk crap are the best placed to identify it.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Universal announced today that the one millionth guest has ridden the Hogwarts Express. 200 complimentary Butterbeer ice creams were given out to celebrate the occasion.

Help me out here. The first soft opening was reported on July 1, 2014. Today is August 7th. That 38 days. That also amounts to just about 27000 riders per day. How is that even possible? How big is that freaking train anyway?

 

[Hakunamatata]

But did they get to schedule out their ice cream enjoyment time 60 days ahead? Where's their magic bracelets?

And what do you mean by this "free" word? What is that?

Free. That's the word used in business to reflect the significantly reduced cost for something that you built into the regular cost of said product the rest of the time.

 

[Mike C]

Help me out here. The first soft opening was reported on July 1, 2014. Today is August 7th. That 38 days. That also amounts to just about 27000 riders per day. How is that even possible? How big is that freaking train anyway?

168 guests per train, 2 trains. 7-9 minute load time, roughly 2500 per hour.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Exactly, people who continually talk crap are the best placed to identify it.

Hey, I have standards. I won't return the phone calls of The Daily Mail.