The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

Cody5242

Well-Known Member
Yes. I don't think it's a great summer across the board (that includes UNI as well!)
Do you think Diagon Alley wasn't the success that Universal thought it was going to be at least attendance wise? For the past few weeks you can just walk into diagon alley and the reason because of Gringotts high wait times is because of the capacity issues. Like what you friends said, Gringotts is not the game-changer that some fanboys are making it out to be. Very anti-climatic
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
China, another place Spirit loves, also has a terrible record when it comes to gay rights (or lack thereof).

It's good to have high standards when it comes to human rights, but few countries currently live up to them when it comes to LGBT equality. Even the US is pretty lousy in this area. No, people don't get killed and jailed under the law, but many states are still lacking in legal protections.

From a business standpoint, it does not make sense for large corporations to dismiss operating in countries just because of LGBT rights issues. They can however, set an example back home and lobby for change, as many top American companies have.
 

culturenthrills

Well-Known Member
I'm totally down with her being "fierce" (for lack of a better word) and look like a warrior. She doesn't have to be wearing a bland Xena knockoff to achieve that as this artwork shows. You can use the classic red/blue/yellow look in a less cartoony fashion and pull off something intimidating.

What you are seeing in that teaser photo is Diana of Themyscira. She has not yet become Wonder Woman. That will come later.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Disneyland, D23 Expo and hiking Yosemite? Wow, that sounds like a fantastic California experience.

But you might want to think about committing to that itinerary now, since Yosemite lodging and campgrounds book up far in advance for peak months like August.

Yosemite truly is one of the planet's wondrous places. That 10 second hang gliding clip of it in Soarin' Over California doesn't even begin to do it justice. No picture or video can do that, really. Yosemite National Park is truly wondrous.
main_yosemite_0628.jpg

A trip to Yosemite isn't complete without a visit to see the Sequoias and Redwoods, one of them being the tallest tree in the world, not to mention their ancient ages.

sequoia-national-park-big-trees-trail_51525_600x450.jpg


04_23_2013_redwoods.jpg
 

John

Well-Known Member
Yes. I don't think it's a great summer across the board (that includes UNI as well!)


The economy isn't doing well. We are teetering. No matter what some would like to think most people are holding on to their money, there is little consumer confidence. Lets face it the middle class drives this ship. They are being squeezed more and more. Value is the name of game......and we all know the value of Disney dollars.
 

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
if you love Yosemite I think you will love love love Yellowstone! it is huge and has so many diverse things, the geysers, lake, river, so many animals everywhere just doin their thing, it is fantastic! hope you can go someday soon, I think you will really enjoy it.
Love Yellowstone, but the traffic can be a nightmare.Same with the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. Glacier National Park in Montana is gorgeous too. Fortunately now retirement gives us the advantage of not having to go during peak tourist seasons.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
China, another place Spirit loves, also has a terrible record when it comes to gay rights (or lack thereof).

It's good to have high standards when it comes to human rights, but few countries currently live up to them when it comes to LGBT equality. Even the US is pretty lousy in this area. No, people don't get killed and jailed under the law, but many states are still lacking in legal protections.

From a business standpoint, it does not make sense for large corporations to dismiss operating in countries just because of LGBT rights issues. They can however, set an example back home and lobby for change, as many top American companies have.
Yes, it is very hard for multinational corporations like Disney to not do business with nations that have less than stellar human rights records. HOWEVER, Disney/Lucasfilm is taking money from the Abu Dhabi government to shoot there. Taking money from repressive governments to make them look better is different than say opening up a Disney store or screening Disney movies.
 

Darth Sidious

Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
Even though this Comic-Con was devoid of important Star Wars news,
I think it is high time that we got back to discussing Star Wars in Abu Dhabi. Before I get started, I want to note that while I personally do not like the use of production tax credits. I do not plan on challenging them within this post. There is a debate to be had when it comes to them but I want to spend time addressing other issues that Disney/Lucasfilm shooting in Abu Dhabi presents.

When discussing Disney/Lucasfilm's decision to shoot portions of Star Wars Episode VII in Abu Dhabi, the decision must be placed in context with the other locations Disney's tentpoles (Marvel films included) shoot at. Over the past ten years, production of big budget Hollywood tent poles has moved from California to other states and countries. Walt Disney Studio's Chairman Alan Horn has played a big role in this trend during his tenure at Warner Brothers, but we'll get to him later. Disney’s favorite location to shoot its live action films is the United Kingdom; Pinewood and Pinewood Shepperton to be specific. TWDS currently has a long term leasing arrangement with them for 17 soundstages. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-5m-major-victory-British-film-industry.html) Naturally, their decision was assisted by a £5 Million tax incentive from the United Kingdom plus the 20% tax rebate, after the first million pounds spent which get a 25% rebate, they will receive for every film they shoot in the UK. So no matter how hard California tries, a large chunk of Disney's live action film production will take place in the UK.

TWDS is still willing to take money from other states/nations despite these sweetheart deals. Marvel Studios is quite adept at leveraging states against each other to get the best deal, a recurring theme. Actually, the first X-Men, directed by he who shall not be named, was the first Hollywood film to use film production incentives by shooting in Toronto. When the notoriously frugal Marvel began producing its own films, the studio's business strategy to their initial financier Morgan Stanley relied heavily on production incentives; Iron Man 1 & 2 and Cap 1, primarily shot in California, are the exceptions. Unlike TWDS, Marvel likes to keep its options open by not committing itself to any state, we're talking about the films so their Netflix shows don't apply here because TV requires a longer term commitment, so they have the flexibility to shoot The Avengers in Ohio, Iron Man 3 in North Carolina and ... wait Ohio just increased its tax credit... Cap 2 in Ohio. So the trend, which is the industry norm for runaway productions, is to use states with comprable facilites against each other so state governments have to increase subsidies. But there is another method the studios use to get film production subsidies.

Enter Alan Horn. During his tenure at Warner Brothers, he played a key role in how they get film production subsidies. As you may know, all of the Harry Potter films were shot in the United Kingdom, partially at the request of JK Rowling, but also because of the British film industry's talent pool. When it became clear that the Harry Potter franchise would be seen through to the end of the books, Warner Brothers and British Film interests lobbied for hard for a film subsidy. The argument went, as you can read here (34 & 35 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldselect/ldcomuni/37/3705.htm), "we, foreign productions, make up 68 percent of all film production dollars spent in the United Kingdom. Therefore we would like support from the state to keep investing those production dollars in the UK.” It worked and those subsidies successfully not only kept Harry Potter in the UK, we will get back to the boy who lived later, but Warner Brothers expanded its UK backlot to accommodate more production. Warner's backlot expansion also mirrors the recently approved expansion of Pinewood's Shepperton Studio where Episode VII and Age of Ultron are currently filming.

Alan oversaw another big franchise which received generous tax credits; Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Ring’s Trilogy. Peter Jackson, a kiwi, made a strong argument to New Line that New Zealand could provide the backdrop necessary to recreate Middle Earth. Warners pushed New Zealand hard for government support of the trilogy with $150 million in subsidies. In the years after the success of Jackson’s films, New Zealand saw a 40 percent surge in visitors thanks to a phenomenon known as “Tolkien Tourism” with tours of the sets and landscapes from the films. (The films and subsequent subsidies also helped establish New Zealand in the VFX industry with Jackson’s Weta Digital (Non-LotR credits include the recent Planet of the Apes films, The Avengers and the upcoming Avatar films). Warner Brothers used these developments to demand more money from New Zealand to keep production of the Hobbit there as has Cameron and Fox for the Avatar sequels (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/b...-hollywood-put-on-its-map.html?pagewanted=all).

Despite the drama between Warner Brothers and New Zealand, Abu Dhabi couldn't be happier to throw money at Disney/Lucasfilm. Both Abu Dhabi and its sister emirate Dubai have tried very hard to lure film production and have failed. by the Abu Dhabi and Dubai film commissions own count only a handful of Hollywood productions have been shot there. Films shot in both emirates include and are limited to “Syrianna”(2005) starring George Clooney, produced by Warner Brothers, and “The Kingdom” (2007) starring Jamie Foxx. In recent years, Abu Dhabi has attracted “The Bourne Legacy” and “Deliver Us From Evil” and Dubai was able to score none other than Brad Bird’s “Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol”; which prominently features a sequence shot outside the Burj Khalifa and Tom Cruise trying to outrun a sandstorm. Abu Dhabi, which has also dipped its toes in the film financing arena with none other than Alan Horn’s WB in the late 00’s. knows that no one wants to shoot there. For the Abu Dhabi film commission, Episode VII represents a coup for an aggressive push to try to get the Emirate more Hollywood film productions.(http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/abu-dhabi-boosts-hollywood-connections-1201219369/) As you may know, the original plan was for Episode VII to shoot desert sequences in Tunisia. When Lucasfilm and Disney started to get concerned about violence in Tunisia’s neighbor Libya spilling over, Abu Dhabi swooped in before anyone else and offered the film their recently increased 30% tax rebate; currently Abu Dhabi’s is among the highest film production subsidies (Vancouver bests them at 35%). While Morocco may be a more suitable alternative to Tunisia, also closer to the production's home base in the UK, how could they turn down free money?

Now that I have established enough context, let’s talk about Abu Dhabi and the United Arab Emirates' dark side. Abu Dhabi may project an image as a modern cosmopolitan, but it is ultimately a city built on slave labor with one of the harshest justice systems in the world. Abu Dhabi’s exploitation of migrant works has been well documented. If you would like to read more, I have included some articles Let’s not forget that being gay is a crime where punishments include imprisonment, gay conversion therapy, or, if you’re lucky, deportation. More When considering which countries Disney shoots its high profile tentpoles in, shouldn’t they consider how their hosts treat their others. For a company that refused many calls by Abu Dhabi and Dubai to build a theme park out of concerns for their BRAND, why is it now appropriate to take their film subsidies for one of their highest profile projects. In taking these subsidies, they are allowing a country with a LOT of baggage the opportunity to be associated with the Star Wars BRAND. Disney/Lucasfilm is letting their brand be tarnished by association with Abu Dhabi to make them look better. Change you really be a “Force for Change” when you take money from a country built on slavery?

The long term impact of Disney/Lucasfilm’s choice to shoot in Abu Dhabi is hard to tell at this point, but the legacy of the franchises Alan oversaw at Warner Brothers and legacy of Star Wars offers a precedent. As Tolkien Tourism has brought hundreds of thousands of LotR fans to a country they likely would have never visited, the physical sets have taken on a special role as a rite of passage for fans. Warner Brothers and local entrepreneurs have been keen to this trend by working to keep the Hobbit village, a highlight of any visit to Middle Earth, in top condition. With Harry Potter, they took this even further with a special tour at their UK backlot which features special recreations of the sets, original exterior and interior sets, props, and a gift shop (naturally). The abandonment of the Tatooine sets from the original “Star Wars” in Tunisia has been well documented. But thanks to fan interest, you can now take tours of the original trilogy sets as part of vacation packages to Tunisia. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/18/travel/star-wars-visit-taooine-sahara/) To think that Abu Dhabi does not want a permanent Star Wars presence along the lines of the WB Harry Potter Tour or the Tolkien Tourism to attract fans to visit would be foolish. Abu Dhabi very badly wants to be a tourist destination and by having the remains of one of the biggest franchises of all time it knows fans will shell out.

Which brings us back to Comic Con. Fans absolutely love these franchises, they are a big part of their identities. They love to watch these films, play the games, read the comics, and have the opportunity to meet other fans at a venue like Comic Con. They spend lots of money on rare items and sit in lines for hours to get a glimpse of their favorite stars and see brand new footage first. These are the folks who may one day make the pilgrimage to visit the sets from Episode VII. Does Lucasfilm want its fans, through evangelization of their visits, to make a repressive country look good?

Hopefully that broke the ice on this very important topic.

Great post. I don't have an issue with tax incentives because as you pointed out in most cases you'll see local benefits outweighing those taxes lost. Benefits ranging from permenant jobs in the area (those people are now paying income taxes in places where there are such taxes), increased local business and increased tourism.

However, production companies should absolutely vet the host location before accepting these funds. Companies like Disney can and should be a force of change (see what I did there) by adding outside pressure and influence on countries like Abu Dhabi. The human rights violations are not an issue you should turn the other cheek to. Corporate responsibility is required and these countries shouldn't be rewarded. Take even the fact that the World Cup will be hosted in Qatar, a country that has a similar track record as Abu Dhabi. Now there is talk that Qatar corruptly bought the votes for the World Cup and FIFA is considering moving the Cup. I hope they do because they don't deserve money when their people have minimal rights and harsh punishments. Besides if they move the Cup it will likely get moved to the US.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Great post. I don't have an issue with tax incentives because as you pointed out in most cases you'll see local benefits outweighing those taxes lost. Benefits ranging from permenant jobs in the area (those people are now paying income taxes in places where there are such taxes), increased local business and increased tourism.

However, production companies should absolutely vet the host location before accepting these funds. Companies like Disney can and should be a force of change (see what I did there) by adding outside pressure and influence on countries like Abu Dhabi. The human rights violations are not an issue you should turn the other cheek to. Corporate responsibility is required and these countries shouldn't be rewarded. Take even the fact that the World Cup will be hosted in Qatar, a country that has a similar track record as Abu Dhabi. Now there is talk that Qatar corruptly bought the votes for the World Cup and FIFA is considering moving the Cup. I hope they do because they don't deserve money when their people have minimal rights and harsh punishments. Besides if they move the Cup it will likely get moved to the US.
It's funny what stories are allowed to run when you lose the rights to the World Cup to FOX.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11019010
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
I don’t believe they are the first hotel chain to announce this, but Hilton will soon be allowing people to use their smartphones to check in, choose their room, and unlock their doors.

Disney could have gone the same route and included their park tickets as well. Instead they went with the wristband's doing these MAGICal things. The question is how much money was wasted on designing and manufacturing a band that is really not needed? They could have easily offered the smartphone option through the app and for those forgoing it, they have tickets.


http://www.cnet.com/news/hilton-to-replace-hotel-room-keys-with-smartphones/
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I don’t believe they are the first hotel chain to announce this, but Hilton will soon be allowing people to use their smartphones to check in, choose their room, and unlock their doors.

Disney could have gone the same route and included their park tickets as well. Instead they went with the wristband's doing these MAGICal things. The question is how much money was wasted on designing and manufacturing a band that is really not needed?

Because the smartphone path is cruising for a bruising. Notice how the article says Hilton hasn't even got a system to promote yet? And things are 1-2 years away?

The reason for doing something like the MagicBand is CONTROL. Disney doesn't want to invest all that time and money and be locked to vendors and products it has ZERO control over.

What happens when Apple releases a new phone that ditched the hardware you built your system around? Or releases a new version that breaks your app?

The smartphone life cycle is less than 4 years... and more like 2. Imagine trying to keep your entire infrastructure up to date and DEPENDENT on a technology that changes that quickly with zero input from you.

And let's talk about putting your system onto a smartphone that the user controls.. not you.

You don't base your business on consumer technology supplied by other people unless you are prepared to refresh your own products at the same rate.

A system like Hilton's would probably end up working via the network vs via the phone. Or they could do things like ultrasound, etc.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Because the smartphone path is cruising for a bruising. Notice how the article says Hilton hasn't even got a system to promote yet? And things are 1-2 years away?

The reason for doing something like the MagicBand is CONTROL. Disney doesn't want to invest all that time and money and be locked to vendors and products it has ZERO control over.

What happens when Apple releases a new phone that ditched the hardware you built your system around? Or releases a new version that breaks your app?

The smartphone life cycle is less than 4 years... and more like 2. Imagine trying to keep your entire infrastructure up to date and DEPENDENT on a technology that changes that quickly with zero input from you.

And let's talk about putting your system onto a smartphone that the user controls.. not you.

You don't base your business on consumer technology supplied by other people unless you are prepared to refresh your own products at the same rate.

A system like Hilton's would probably end up working via the network vs via the phone. Or they could do things like ultrasound, etc.
Dead on. Disney had to have control over MM+.
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
I really gotta say... I don't like the utter reliance on cell phones as of late.

And I'm really tired of watching people walk right into traffic because they're glued to their phones. And to bring this back to Disney, the same applies... I witnessed more than enough young children playing with Mum's phone, or adults with their eyes glued to their phone, walking down Main Street.

I'm not a fan of using a cell phone to book a ride on Space Mtn, but I'm really not liking the idea of using said cell phone to unlock a hotel room.

Maybe I'm just old school.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Are there any advocacy groups made up of genre movie fans that attempt to take action in these issues? I have never heard of this.

Star Wars fans have reacted positively to location shoots and practical sets over Lucas' antiseptic green screen prequels, but obviously there are some moral complications in the choices
of location.

I don't know that answer, but just off-hand I'd say it is highly unlikely. Like I said, fans are only interested in what they are interested in. Big real-world issues generally send them running in another direction.

I sorta gave up on the topic here (before @the.dreamfinder 's great post) because it wasn't garnering much conversation. Fans are interested in seeing a new Star Wars film. They don't care about any real world implications about where it was lensed and why.

Can you imagine ANY rabid Star Wars fanboi (even members of the LGBT community) skipping the film because of where parts of it were filmed?

Hypocrisy makes the world go around!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Agreed, with Sea World seemingly taking the biggest hit. I get a sense you follow Hollywood, do you think this ties into the across-the-board horrible Summer box office?

I don't largely. But on some level, I do think the economy ... the lie that our economy is fine and recovered from 2007-08 could be rearing its head. The box office is easy to explain away with the front-loading of tentpoles (sorry, Bob Iger, but the first week in April isn't summer ... you should remember the Seasons 101 from your days as a Weatherman!) and a lot of films that have been ... blah! ... at best.

But theme park crowds?

Where are they?

Again, August hasn't really been considered summer at the theme parks for a long time beyond the first 10 days or so. And the crowds simply haven't been at ANY of the parks. (Sorry, UNI fanbois, but we'd all be reading about the crowds at the resort up I-4 IF the crowds were actually there!)

With theme parks, I don't think it's an issue of quality of product. That speaks more of an economic malaise.
I can't help but think that O-Town will be a ghost town in a matter of weeks and, largely, will be like that until October ...
 

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