The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
Even though this Comic-Con was devoid of important Star Wars news,
I think it is high time that we got back to discussing Star Wars in Abu Dhabi. Before I get started, I want to note that while I personally do not like the use of production tax credits. I do not plan on challenging them within this post. There is a debate to be had when it comes to them but I want to spend time addressing other issues that Disney/Lucasfilm shooting in Abu Dhabi presents.

When discussing Disney/Lucasfilm's decision to shoot portions of Star Wars Episode VII in Abu Dhabi, the decision must be placed in context with the other locations Disney's tentpoles (Marvel films included) shoot at. Over the past ten years, production of big budget Hollywood tent poles has moved from California to other states and countries. Walt Disney Studio's Chairman Alan Horn has played a big role in this trend during his tenure at Warner Brothers, but we'll get to him later. Disney’s favorite location to shoot its live action films is the United Kingdom; Pinewood and Pinewood Shepperton to be specific. TWDS currently has a long term leasing arrangement with them for 17 soundstages. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-5m-major-victory-British-film-industry.html) Naturally, their decision was assisted by a £5 Million tax incentive from the United Kingdom plus the 20% tax rebate, after the first million pounds spent which get a 25% rebate, they will receive for every film they shoot in the UK. So no matter how hard California tries, a large chunk of Disney's live action film production will take place in the UK.

TWDS is still willing to take money from other states/nations despite these sweetheart deals. Marvel Studios is quite adept at leveraging states against each other to get the best deal, a recurring theme. Actually, the first X-Men, directed by he who shall not be named, was the first Hollywood film to use film production incentives by shooting in Toronto. When the notoriously frugal Marvel began producing its own films, the studio's business strategy to their initial financier Morgan Stanley relied heavily on production incentives; Iron Man 1 & 2 and Cap 1, primarily shot in California, are the exceptions. Unlike TWDS, Marvel likes to keep its options open by not committing itself to any state, we're talking about the films so their Netflix shows don't apply here because TV requires a longer term commitment, so they have the flexibility to shoot The Avengers in Ohio, Iron Man 3 in North Carolina and ... wait Ohio just increased its tax credit... Cap 2 in Ohio. So the trend, which is the industry norm for runaway productions, is to use states with comprable facilites against each other so state governments have to increase subsidies. But there is another method the studios use to get film production subsidies.

Enter Alan Horn. During his tenure at Warner Brothers, he played a key role in how they get film production subsidies. As you may know, all of the Harry Potter films were shot in the United Kingdom, partially at the request of JK Rowling, but also because of the British film industry's talent pool. When it became clear that the Harry Potter franchise would be seen through to the end of the books, Warner Brothers and British Film interests lobbied for hard for a film subsidy. The argument went, as you can read here (34 & 35 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldselect/ldcomuni/37/3705.htm), "we, foreign productions, make up 68 percent of all film production dollars spent in the United Kingdom. Therefore we would like support from the state to keep investing those production dollars in the UK.” It worked and those subsidies successfully not only kept Harry Potter in the UK, we will get back to the boy who lived later, but Warner Brothers expanded its UK backlot to accommodate more production. Warner's backlot expansion also mirrors the recently approved expansion of Pinewood's Shepperton Studio where Episode VII and Age of Ultron are currently filming.

Alan oversaw another big franchise which received generous tax credits; Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Ring’s Trilogy. Peter Jackson, a kiwi, made a strong argument to New Line that New Zealand could provide the backdrop necessary to recreate Middle Earth. Warners pushed New Zealand hard for government support of the trilogy with $150 million in subsidies. In the years after the success of Jackson’s films, New Zealand saw a 40 percent surge in visitors thanks to a phenomenon known as “Tolkien Tourism” with tours of the sets and landscapes from the films. (The films and subsequent subsidies also helped establish New Zealand in the VFX industry with Jackson’s Weta Digital (Non-LotR credits include the recent Planet of the Apes films, The Avengers and the upcoming Avatar films). Warner Brothers used these developments to demand more money from New Zealand to keep production of the Hobbit there as has Cameron and Fox for the Avatar sequels (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/b...-hollywood-put-on-its-map.html?pagewanted=all).

Despite the drama between Warner Brothers and New Zealand, Abu Dhabi couldn't be happier to throw money at Disney/Lucasfilm. Both Abu Dhabi and its sister emirate Dubai have tried very hard to lure film production and have failed. by the Abu Dhabi and Dubai film commissions own count only a handful of Hollywood productions have been shot there. Films shot in both emirates include and are limited to “Syrianna”(2005) starring George Clooney, produced by Warner Brothers, and “The Kingdom” (2007) starring Jamie Foxx. In recent years, Abu Dhabi has attracted “The Bourne Legacy” and “Deliver Us From Evil” and Dubai was able to score none other than Brad Bird’s “Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol”; which prominently features a sequence shot outside the Burj Khalifa and Tom Cruise trying to outrun a sandstorm. Abu Dhabi, which has also dipped its toes in the film financing arena with none other than Alan Horn’s WB in the late 00’s. knows that no one wants to shoot there. For the Abu Dhabi film commission, Episode VII represents a coup for an aggressive push to try to get the Emirate more Hollywood film productions.(http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/abu-dhabi-boosts-hollywood-connections-1201219369/) As you may know, the original plan was for Episode VII to shoot desert sequences in Tunisia. When Lucasfilm and Disney started to get concerned about violence in Tunisia’s neighbor Libya spilling over, Abu Dhabi swooped in before anyone else and offered the film their recently increased 30% tax rebate; currently Abu Dhabi’s is among the highest film production subsidies (Vancouver bests them at 35%). While Morocco may be a more suitable alternative to Tunisia, also closer to the production's home base in the UK, how could they turn down free money?

Now that I have established enough context, let’s talk about Abu Dhabi and the United Arab Emirates' dark side. Abu Dhabi may project an image as a modern cosmopolitan, but it is ultimately a city built on slave labor with one of the harshest justice systems in the world. Abu Dhabi’s exploitation of migrant works has been well documented. If you would like to read more, I have included some articles Let’s not forget that being gay is a crime where punishments include imprisonment, gay conversion therapy, or, if you’re lucky, deportation. More When considering which countries Disney shoots its high profile tentpoles in, shouldn’t they consider how their hosts treat their others. For a company that refused many calls by Abu Dhabi and Dubai to build a theme park out of concerns for their BRAND, why is it now appropriate to take their film subsidies for one of their highest profile projects. In taking these subsidies, they are allowing a country with a LOT of baggage the opportunity to be associated with the Star Wars BRAND. Disney/Lucasfilm is letting their brand be tarnished by association with Abu Dhabi to make them look better. Change you really be a “Force for Change” when you take money from a country built on slavery?

The long term impact of Disney/Lucasfilm’s choice to shoot in Abu Dhabi is hard to tell at this point, but the legacy of the franchises Alan oversaw at Warner Brothers and legacy of Star Wars offers a precedent. As Tolkien Tourism has brought hundreds of thousands of LotR fans to a country they likely would have never visited, the physical sets have taken on a special role as a rite of passage for fans. Warner Brothers and local entrepreneurs have been keen to this trend by working to keep the Hobbit village, a highlight of any visit to Middle Earth, in top condition. With Harry Potter, they took this even further with a special tour at their UK backlot which features special recreations of the sets, original exterior and interior sets, props, and a gift shop (naturally). The abandonment of the Tatooine sets from the original “Star Wars” in Tunisia has been well documented. But thanks to fan interest, you can now take tours of the original trilogy sets as part of vacation packages to Tunisia. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/18/travel/star-wars-visit-taooine-sahara/) To think that Abu Dhabi does not want a permanent Star Wars presence along the lines of the WB Harry Potter Tour or the Tolkien Tourism to attract fans to visit would be foolish. Abu Dhabi very badly wants to be a tourist destination and by having the remains of one of the biggest franchises of all time it knows fans will shell out.

Which brings us back to Comic Con. Fans absolutely love these franchises, they are a big part of their identities. They love to watch these films, play the games, read the comics, and have the opportunity to meet other fans at a venue like Comic Con. They spend lots of money on rare items and sit in lines for hours to get a glimpse of their favorite stars and see brand new footage first. These are the folks who may one day make the pilgrimage to visit the sets from Episode VII. Does Lucasfilm want its fans, through evangelization of their visits, to make a repressive country look good?

Hopefully that broke the ice on this very important topic.

Excellent post and kudos to you for attempting to get this thread back to an intelligent discussion!
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I'm toying with the idea of spending a few days there (specifically, to hike Half Dome) after the D23 Expo next August. That way, great or just good expo, I can guarantee I'll still have a superb Cali trip.

Disneyland, D23 Expo and hiking Yosemite? Wow, that sounds like a fantastic California experience.

But you might want to think about committing to that itinerary now, since Yosemite lodging and campgrounds book up far in advance for peak months like August.

Yosemite truly is one of the planet's wondrous places. That 10 second hang gliding clip of it in Soarin' Over California doesn't even begin to do it justice. No picture or video can do that, really. Yosemite National Park is truly wondrous.
main_yosemite_0628.jpg
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Disneyland, D23 Expo and hiking Yosemite? Wow, that sounds like a fantastic California experience.

But you might want to think about committing to that itinerary now, since Yosemite lodging and campgrounds book up far in advance for peak months like August.

Yosemite truly is one of the planet's wondrous places. That 10 second hang gliding clip of it in Soarin' Over California doesn't even begin to do it justice. No picture or video can do that, really. Yosemite National Park is truly wondrous.
main_yosemite_0628.jpg
Oh my.......... Makes me feel bad I won't be going there during my west coast trip in February. Looks freaking amazing :jawdrop: I will be going to the Grand Canyon for the first time though. Yosemite will definitely be on my list if I ever go to California again (which I probably will).
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
So what's everyone's opinion on the Pixar "Untitled Dia de los Muertos" movie now that this (below) is coming out. Will it end up like Newt?


I was honestly, more ed when Disney outright tried to force his way to copyright our ( I am Mexican) festivity to commemorate the death... I still heard he was given the finger and refused.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yup, it's certainly one of the "staple" chain restaurants in Ontario. We have a few different Canadian Mega-companies with boxed restaurants. Generally speaking I find the Canadian brands a step or two above the equivalent American ones. East Side's though is on the lower end (it's an Olive Garden equivalent and we largely don't have many of those left). Kind of mediocre entrees but basically everyone just eats the unlimited bread and salad and takes their pasta home.

There's been lots of chains that have tried to break the border and retreated (in both directions). Sam's Club is out, Blockbuster was gutted completely in Canada to try and salvage their American market, Outback Steakhouse didn't really live up to our more upscale The Keg chain or mid-tier Montanna's. I also noticed we hardly have Burger King's left compared to how prominent it is in most other countries worldwide.

If anyone ever makes it North of the border and feels the need to try our chains, I'd recommend Jack Astors or Boston Pizza personally, with the Keg for expensive upscale occaisions.

Lots of great non-chains too... but this is a Spirited food thread!

Any Spirited thread can become a food one easily. :)

I do get amused by food snobs ... you know the ones who would never dine at a McD's ... never at a Red Lobster ... no coffee from Starbucks etc.

I may be a Faux Top One Percenter, but I did learn from REAL ones that no one is ever too good to eat at a Denny's, grab a sandwich at Subway or a latte at Dunkin Donuts.

This point was driven home the other night when I finally started reading Dave Bossert's bio of Roy E. Disney. One of the first anecdotes was how Roy loved hot dogs from Costco and fast food from Taco Bell. Yes, billionaires like that stuff too.

I don't think I could have a friend who felt they were too good to eat fast food or chain food, just like I couldn't have one who felt network TV or theme parks were too lowbrow. ... I can be elitist at times, but I am no Spirited snob.

Anyway, I had Jesus chicken today!!!
 

dhall

Well-Known Member
I lost that...debate.
Though I will be looking for a grill attachment for our stove.

You have to pick your battles. Theming my office like the Jungle Cruise queue took priority.:cool:
I'd say you chose wisely -- over the long run, it's better to hide in an office than to be stuck cooking.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Even though this Comic-Con was devoid of important Star Wars news,
I think it is high time that we got back to discussing Star Wars in Abu Dhabi. Before I get started, I want to note that while I personally do not like the use of production tax credits. I do not plan on challenging them within this post. There is a debate to be had when it comes to them but I want to spend time addressing other issues that Disney/Lucasfilm shooting in Abu Dhabi presents.

When discussing Disney/Lucasfilm's decision to shoot portions of Star Wars Episode VII in Abu Dhabi, the decision must be placed in context with the other locations Disney's tentpoles (Marvel films included) shoot at. Over the past ten years, production of big budget Hollywood tent poles has moved from California to other states and countries. Walt Disney Studio's Chairman Alan Horn has played a big role in this trend during his tenure at Warner Brothers, but we'll get to him later. Disney’s favorite location to shoot its live action films is the United Kingdom; Pinewood and Pinewood Shepperton to be specific. TWDS currently has a long term leasing arrangement with them for 17 soundstages. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-5m-major-victory-British-film-industry.html) Naturally, their decision was assisted by a £5 Million tax incentive from the United Kingdom plus the 20% tax rebate, after the first million pounds spent which get a 25% rebate, they will receive for every film they shoot in the UK. So no matter how hard California tries, a large chunk of Disney's live action film production will take place in the UK.

TWDS is still willing to take money from other states/nations despite these sweetheart deals. Marvel Studios is quite adept at leveraging states against each other to get the best deal, a recurring theme. Actually, the first X-Men, directed by he who shall not be named, was the first Hollywood film to use film production incentives by shooting in Toronto. When the notoriously frugal Marvel began producing its own films, the studio's business strategy to their initial financier Morgan Stanley relied heavily on production incentives; Iron Man 1 & 2 and Cap 1, primarily shot in California, are the exceptions. Unlike TWDS, Marvel likes to keep its options open by not committing itself to any state, we're talking about the films so their Netflix shows don't apply here because TV requires a longer term commitment, so they have the flexibility to shoot The Avengers in Ohio, Iron Man 3 in North Carolina and ... wait Ohio just increased its tax credit... Cap 2 in Ohio. So the trend, which is the industry norm for runaway productions, is to use states with comprable facilites against each other so state governments have to increase subsidies. But there is another method the studios use to get film production subsidies.

Enter Alan Horn. During his tenure at Warner Brothers, he played a key role in how they get film production subsidies. As you may know, all of the Harry Potter films were shot in the United Kingdom, partially at the request of JK Rowling, but also because of the British film industry's talent pool. When it became clear that the Harry Potter franchise would be seen through to the end of the books, Warner Brothers and British Film interests lobbied for hard for a film subsidy. The argument went, as you can read here (34 & 35 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldselect/ldcomuni/37/3705.htm), "we, foreign productions, make up 68 percent of all film production dollars spent in the United Kingdom. Therefore we would like support from the state to keep investing those production dollars in the UK.” It worked and those subsidies successfully not only kept Harry Potter in the UK, we will get back to the boy who lived later, but Warner Brothers expanded its UK backlot to accommodate more production. Warner's backlot expansion also mirrors the recently approved expansion of Pinewood's Shepperton Studio where Episode VII and Age of Ultron are currently filming.

Alan oversaw another big franchise which received generous tax credits; Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Ring’s Trilogy. Peter Jackson, a kiwi, made a strong argument to New Line that New Zealand could provide the backdrop necessary to recreate Middle Earth. Warners pushed New Zealand hard for government support of the trilogy with $150 million in subsidies. In the years after the success of Jackson’s films, New Zealand saw a 40 percent surge in visitors thanks to a phenomenon known as “Tolkien Tourism” with tours of the sets and landscapes from the films. (The films and subsequent subsidies also helped establish New Zealand in the VFX industry with Jackson’s Weta Digital (Non-LotR credits include the recent Planet of the Apes films, The Avengers and the upcoming Avatar films). Warner Brothers used these developments to demand more money from New Zealand to keep production of the Hobbit there as has Cameron and Fox for the Avatar sequels (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/b...-hollywood-put-on-its-map.html?pagewanted=all).

Despite the drama between Warner Brothers and New Zealand, Abu Dhabi couldn't be happier to throw money at Disney/Lucasfilm. Both Abu Dhabi and its sister emirate Dubai have tried very hard to lure film production and have failed. by the Abu Dhabi and Dubai film commissions own count only a handful of Hollywood productions have been shot there. Films shot in both emirates include and are limited to “Syrianna”(2005) starring George Clooney, produced by Warner Brothers, and “The Kingdom” (2007) starring Jamie Foxx. In recent years, Abu Dhabi has attracted “The Bourne Legacy” and “Deliver Us From Evil” and Dubai was able to score none other than Brad Bird’s “Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol”; which prominently features a sequence shot outside the Burj Khalifa and Tom Cruise trying to outrun a sandstorm. Abu Dhabi, which has also dipped its toes in the film financing arena with none other than Alan Horn’s WB in the late 00’s. knows that no one wants to shoot there. For the Abu Dhabi film commission, Episode VII represents a coup for an aggressive push to try to get the Emirate more Hollywood film productions.(http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/abu-dhabi-boosts-hollywood-connections-1201219369/) As you may know, the original plan was for Episode VII to shoot desert sequences in Tunisia. When Lucasfilm and Disney started to get concerned about violence in Tunisia’s neighbor Libya spilling over, Abu Dhabi swooped in before anyone else and offered the film their recently increased 30% tax rebate; currently Abu Dhabi’s is among the highest film production subsidies (Vancouver bests them at 35%). While Morocco may be a more suitable alternative to Tunisia, also closer to the production's home base in the UK, how could they turn down free money?

Now that I have established enough context, let’s talk about Abu Dhabi and the United Arab Emirates' dark side. Abu Dhabi may project an image as a modern cosmopolitan, but it is ultimately a city built on slave labor with one of the harshest justice systems in the world. Abu Dhabi’s exploitation of migrant works has been well documented. If you would like to read more, I have included some articles Let’s not forget that being gay is a crime where punishments include imprisonment, gay conversion therapy, or, if you’re lucky, deportation. More When considering which countries Disney shoots its high profile tentpoles in, shouldn’t they consider how their hosts treat their others. For a company that refused many calls by Abu Dhabi and Dubai to build a theme park out of concerns for their BRAND, why is it now appropriate to take their film subsidies for one of their highest profile projects. In taking these subsidies, they are allowing a country with a LOT of baggage the opportunity to be associated with the Star Wars BRAND. Disney/Lucasfilm is letting their brand be tarnished by association with Abu Dhabi to make them look better. Change you really be a “Force for Change” when you take money from a country built on slavery?

The long term impact of Disney/Lucasfilm’s choice to shoot in Abu Dhabi is hard to tell at this point, but the legacy of the franchises Alan oversaw at Warner Brothers and legacy of Star Wars offers a precedent. As Tolkien Tourism has brought hundreds of thousands of LotR fans to a country they likely would have never visited, the physical sets have taken on a special role as a rite of passage for fans. Warner Brothers and local entrepreneurs have been keen to this trend by working to keep the Hobbit village, a highlight of any visit to Middle Earth, in top condition. With Harry Potter, they took this even further with a special tour at their UK backlot which features special recreations of the sets, original exterior and interior sets, props, and a gift shop (naturally). The abandonment of the Tatooine sets from the original “Star Wars” in Tunisia has been well documented. But thanks to fan interest, you can now take tours of the original trilogy sets as part of vacation packages to Tunisia. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/18/travel/star-wars-visit-taooine-sahara/) To think that Abu Dhabi does not want a permanent Star Wars presence along the lines of the WB Harry Potter Tour or the Tolkien Tourism to attract fans to visit would be foolish. Abu Dhabi very badly wants to be a tourist destination and by having the remains of one of the biggest franchises of all time it knows fans will shell out.

Which brings us back to Comic Con. Fans absolutely love these franchises, they are a big part of their identities. They love to watch these films, play the games, read the comics, and have the opportunity to meet other fans at a venue like Comic Con. They spend lots of money on rare items and sit in lines for hours to get a glimpse of their favorite stars and see brand new footage first. These are the folks who may one day make the pilgrimage to visit the sets from Episode VII. Does Lucasfilm want its fans, through evangelization of their visits, to make a repressive country look good?

Hopefully that broke the ice on this very important topic.

What a great (and well researched) post on a topic I left for dead a while ago. I need to digest it properly before responding, but thanks for writing it.

I absolutely think that simply taking the best deal financially isn't what is best in the long run for a company like Disney. Image is everything, right? And I certainly don't think the vast majority of Americans and Europeans and, hell, people would be supportive of the Stone Age dictates in the UAE and much of that region.

Of course, fans only care about fan 'stuff' ... they don't want real world realities to intrude on their time with Bobba Fett, after all.

But I'll have more thoughts tomorrow.
 

Kuzcotopia

Well-Known Member
Even though this Comic-Con was devoid of important Star Wars news,
I think it is high time that we got back to discussing Star Wars in Abu Dhabi. Before I get started, I want to note that while I personally do not like the use of production tax credits. I do not plan on challenging them within this post. There is a debate to be had when it comes to them but I want to spend time addressing other issues that Disney/Lucasfilm shooting in Abu Dhabi presents.

When discussing Disney/Lucasfilm's decision to shoot portions of Star Wars Episode VII in Abu Dhabi, the decision must be placed in context with the other locations Disney's tentpoles (Marvel films included) shoot at. Over the past ten years, production of big budget Hollywood tent poles has moved from California to other states and countries. Walt Disney Studio's Chairman Alan Horn has played a big role in this trend during his tenure at Warner Brothers, but we'll get to him later. Disney’s favorite location to shoot its live action films is the United Kingdom; Pinewood and Pinewood Shepperton to be specific. TWDS currently has a long term leasing arrangement with them for 17 soundstages. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-5m-major-victory-British-film-industry.html) Naturally, their decision was assisted by a £5 Million tax incentive from the United Kingdom plus the 20% tax rebate, after the first million pounds spent which get a 25% rebate, they will receive for every film they shoot in the UK. So no matter how hard California tries, a large chunk of Disney's live action film production will take place in the UK.

TWDS is still willing to take money from other states/nations despite these sweetheart deals. Marvel Studios is quite adept at leveraging states against each other to get the best deal, a recurring theme. Actually, the first X-Men, directed by he who shall not be named, was the first Hollywood film to use film production incentives by shooting in Toronto. When the notoriously frugal Marvel began producing its own films, the studio's business strategy to their initial financier Morgan Stanley relied heavily on production incentives; Iron Man 1 & 2 and Cap 1, primarily shot in California, are the exceptions. Unlike TWDS, Marvel likes to keep its options open by not committing itself to any state, we're talking about the films so their Netflix shows don't apply here because TV requires a longer term commitment, so they have the flexibility to shoot The Avengers in Ohio, Iron Man 3 in North Carolina and ... wait Ohio just increased its tax credit... Cap 2 in Ohio. So the trend, which is the industry norm for runaway productions, is to use states with comprable facilites against each other so state governments have to increase subsidies. But there is another method the studios use to get film production subsidies.

Enter Alan Horn. During his tenure at Warner Brothers, he played a key role in how they get film production subsidies. As you may know, all of the Harry Potter films were shot in the United Kingdom, partially at the request of JK Rowling, but also because of the British film industry's talent pool. When it became clear that the Harry Potter franchise would be seen through to the end of the books, Warner Brothers and British Film interests lobbied for hard for a film subsidy. The argument went, as you can read here (34 & 35 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldselect/ldcomuni/37/3705.htm), "we, foreign productions, make up 68 percent of all film production dollars spent in the United Kingdom. Therefore we would like support from the state to keep investing those production dollars in the UK.” It worked and those subsidies successfully not only kept Harry Potter in the UK, we will get back to the boy who lived later, but Warner Brothers expanded its UK backlot to accommodate more production. Warner's backlot expansion also mirrors the recently approved expansion of Pinewood's Shepperton Studio where Episode VII and Age of Ultron are currently filming.

Alan oversaw another big franchise which received generous tax credits; Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Ring’s Trilogy. Peter Jackson, a kiwi, made a strong argument to New Line that New Zealand could provide the backdrop necessary to recreate Middle Earth. Warners pushed New Zealand hard for government support of the trilogy with $150 million in subsidies. In the years after the success of Jackson’s films, New Zealand saw a 40 percent surge in visitors thanks to a phenomenon known as “Tolkien Tourism” with tours of the sets and landscapes from the films. (The films and subsequent subsidies also helped establish New Zealand in the VFX industry with Jackson’s Weta Digital (Non-LotR credits include the recent Planet of the Apes films, The Avengers and the upcoming Avatar films). Warner Brothers used these developments to demand more money from New Zealand to keep production of the Hobbit there as has Cameron and Fox for the Avatar sequels (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/b...-hollywood-put-on-its-map.html?pagewanted=all).

Despite the drama between Warner Brothers and New Zealand, Abu Dhabi couldn't be happier to throw money at Disney/Lucasfilm. Both Abu Dhabi and its sister emirate Dubai have tried very hard to lure film production and have failed. by the Abu Dhabi and Dubai film commissions own count only a handful of Hollywood productions have been shot there. Films shot in both emirates include and are limited to “Syrianna”(2005) starring George Clooney, produced by Warner Brothers, and “The Kingdom” (2007) starring Jamie Foxx. In recent years, Abu Dhabi has attracted “The Bourne Legacy” and “Deliver Us From Evil” and Dubai was able to score none other than Brad Bird’s “Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol”; which prominently features a sequence shot outside the Burj Khalifa and Tom Cruise trying to outrun a sandstorm. Abu Dhabi, which has also dipped its toes in the film financing arena with none other than Alan Horn’s WB in the late 00’s. knows that no one wants to shoot there. For the Abu Dhabi film commission, Episode VII represents a coup for an aggressive push to try to get the Emirate more Hollywood film productions.(http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/abu-dhabi-boosts-hollywood-connections-1201219369/) As you may know, the original plan was for Episode VII to shoot desert sequences in Tunisia. When Lucasfilm and Disney started to get concerned about violence in Tunisia’s neighbor Libya spilling over, Abu Dhabi swooped in before anyone else and offered the film their recently increased 30% tax rebate; currently Abu Dhabi’s is among the highest film production subsidies (Vancouver bests them at 35%). While Morocco may be a more suitable alternative to Tunisia, also closer to the production's home base in the UK, how could they turn down free money?

Now that I have established enough context, let’s talk about Abu Dhabi and the United Arab Emirates' dark side. Abu Dhabi may project an image as a modern cosmopolitan, but it is ultimately a city built on slave labor with one of the harshest justice systems in the world. Abu Dhabi’s exploitation of migrant works has been well documented. If you would like to read more, I have included some articles Let’s not forget that being gay is a crime where punishments include imprisonment, gay conversion therapy, or, if you’re lucky, deportation. More When considering which countries Disney shoots its high profile tentpoles in, shouldn’t they consider how their hosts treat their others. For a company that refused many calls by Abu Dhabi and Dubai to build a theme park out of concerns for their BRAND, why is it now appropriate to take their film subsidies for one of their highest profile projects. In taking these subsidies, they are allowing a country with a LOT of baggage the opportunity to be associated with the Star Wars BRAND. Disney/Lucasfilm is letting their brand be tarnished by association with Abu Dhabi to make them look better. Change you really be a “Force for Change” when you take money from a country built on slavery?

The long term impact of Disney/Lucasfilm’s choice to shoot in Abu Dhabi is hard to tell at this point, but the legacy of the franchises Alan oversaw at Warner Brothers and legacy of Star Wars offers a precedent. As Tolkien Tourism has brought hundreds of thousands of LotR fans to a country they likely would have never visited, the physical sets have taken on a special role as a rite of passage for fans. Warner Brothers and local entrepreneurs have been keen to this trend by working to keep the Hobbit village, a highlight of any visit to Middle Earth, in top condition. With Harry Potter, they took this even further with a special tour at their UK backlot which features special recreations of the sets, original exterior and interior sets, props, and a gift shop (naturally). The abandonment of the Tatooine sets from the original “Star Wars” in Tunisia has been well documented. But thanks to fan interest, you can now take tours of the original trilogy sets as part of vacation packages to Tunisia. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/18/travel/star-wars-visit-taooine-sahara/) To think that Abu Dhabi does not want a permanent Star Wars presence along the lines of the WB Harry Potter Tour or the Tolkien Tourism to attract fans to visit would be foolish. Abu Dhabi very badly wants to be a tourist destination and by having the remains of one of the biggest franchises of all time it knows fans will shell out.

Which brings us back to Comic Con. Fans absolutely love these franchises, they are a big part of their identities. They love to watch these films, play the games, read the comics, and have the opportunity to meet other fans at a venue like Comic Con. They spend lots of money on rare items and sit in lines for hours to get a glimpse of their favorite stars and see brand new footage first. These are the folks who may one day make the pilgrimage to visit the sets from Episode VII. Does Lucasfilm want its fans, through evangelization of their visits, to make a repressive country look good?

Hopefully that broke the ice on this very important topic.

Are there any advocacy groups made up of genre movie fans that attempt to take action in these issues? I have never heard of this.

Star Wars fans have reacted positively to location shoots and practical sets over Lucas' antiseptic green screen prequels, but obviously there are some moral complications in the choices
of location.
 

thehowiet

Wilson King of Prussia
My wife and I just returned from our first trip to the Disneyland Resort and @WDW1974 kindly invited me to share some of my thoughts/observations here in his thread.

One of the first things I noticed while taking a stroll down Main Street was the number of transportation vehicles running simultaneously: two horse-drawn trolleys, a fire engine, an omnibus, and a jitney. Every one of these vehicles continued operating into the afternoon, even while Main Street was packed with people. They somehow manage to make it work there, while I haven't witnessed anything like this in WDW's MK in quite some time.

The quick service dining locations offered lots of variety, including tacos/burritos, fish, kabobs, gumbo, chowder in bread bowls, etc. In other words, not just the standard burgers and chicken nuggets. (Quick side note: Napa Rose at the Grand Californian was truly excellent and definitely a must do, IMO.)

Another thing I couldn't believe were all the characters we saw just wandering the parks throughout the day, including Pluto, the Mad Hatter and Alice, and even Mickey. When they were set up for standard meet n greets, the lines were extremely short, probably due to the number of other characters roaming the area. Also, there are a lot of entertainment offerings in both parks. I felt like every time we turned a corner there was something going on. It amazes me that WDW continues to eliminate what little entertainment remains in their parks, while in park entertainment continues to play a crucial role at DLR.

Now on to Cars Land... It is absolutely incredible. The big reveal as you walk into Radiator Springs from Pacific Wharf is amazing. WDI definitely hit a home run here. I just didn't want to leave Cars Land even after spending quite a bit of time there. The merchandise found in the land was unique and cool, and the food offerings weren't bad either.

Overall, I think DLR is top notch. The CMs were some of the friendliest and happiest we've ever encountered. Also, the commando mindset typically found at WDW appears to be largely nonexistent at DLR and everyone seems much more relaxed and laid back. Bottom line, anyone who loves WDW really should take a trip to DLR. You definitely won't be disappointed!

Now, since this post has been so positive (and this was just the tip of the iceberg...I left out a lot and could go on forever) I think it's only fair to mention a few things that weren't so positive... The park entry process is a little bizarre. First, a CM scans your ticket with a handheld device before getting to the entry gate. Then, another CM scans your ticket as you go through the gate. Why are two scans needed? Also, is the hand stamp when you exit the park really necessary? It's 2014... Every time we went back to the park later in the day it was after we went to the pool and showered so the stamp had washed off. The CM would pull out the light to look for the stamp and after we'd tell them it washed off they'd just say "OK" and send us on through. I just didn't understand the point I guess, but maybe I'm missing something here.

OK I've rambled enough. Any questions, just ask!
 
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TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
I've been once - long before I even met DH and I loved it. I'm a big fan of the National Parks, especially in the Southwest, and we've always said that once we were both retired we'd take the time to explore more of them. Yosemite is high on our list, as is Denali and Glacier Bay, but Alaska might have to wait another year or two.

I drove across the country over a decade ago and stopped at a bunch of NPs. I don't know if I was there on a Friday afternoon or what, but the traffic driving around Yosemite was like Atlanta rush hour. Absolutely awful. I'm sure it's a great place when it doesn't feel like gridlock.

I loved the Southwest parks. Last year, I finally got around to visiting Big Bend NP in West Texas, which might be my favorite -- certainly a Top-5 entry. Gorgeous and remote.

Funny you mention Denali. Last weekend I was pricing a trip to Alaska and was shocked by the hotel rates around the park (and in some of the towns south of Anchorage). We visited Denali about 10 years ago and would love to go back, but the hotel rates look very Disneyesque. :eek:
 

jlsHouston

Well-Known Member
Even though this Comic-Con was devoid of important Star Wars news,
I think it is high time that we got back to discussing Star Wars in Abu Dhabi. Before I get started, I want to note that while I personally do not like the use of production tax credits. I do not plan on challenging them within this post. There is a debate to be had when it comes to them but I want to spend time addressing other issues that Disney/Lucasfilm shooting in Abu Dhabi presents.

When discussing Disney/Lucasfilm's decision to shoot portions of Star Wars Episode VII in Abu Dhabi, the decision must be placed in context with the other locations Disney's tentpoles (Marvel films included) shoot at. Over the past ten years, production of big budget Hollywood tent poles has moved from California to other states and countries. Walt Disney Studio's Chairman Alan Horn has played a big role in this trend during his tenure at Warner Brothers, but we'll get to him later. Disney’s favorite location to shoot its live action films is the United Kingdom; Pinewood and Pinewood Shepperton to be specific. TWDS currently has a long term leasing arrangement with them for 17 soundstages. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-5m-major-victory-British-film-industry.html) Naturally, their decision was assisted by a £5 Million tax incentive from the United Kingdom plus the 20% tax rebate, after the first million pounds spent which get a 25% rebate, they will receive for every film they shoot in the UK. So no matter how hard California tries, a large chunk of Disney's live action film production will take place in the UK.

TWDS is still willing to take money from other states/nations despite these sweetheart deals. Marvel Studios is quite adept at leveraging states against each other to get the best deal, a recurring theme. Actually, the first X-Men, directed by he who shall not be named, was the first Hollywood film to use film production incentives by shooting in Toronto. When the notoriously frugal Marvel began producing its own films, the studio's business strategy to their initial financier Morgan Stanley relied heavily on production incentives; Iron Man 1 & 2 and Cap 1, primarily shot in California, are the exceptions. Unlike TWDS, Marvel likes to keep its options open by not committing itself to any state, we're talking about the films so their Netflix shows don't apply here because TV requires a longer term commitment, so they have the flexibility to shoot The Avengers in Ohio, Iron Man 3 in North Carolina and ... wait Ohio just increased its tax credit... Cap 2 in Ohio. So the trend, which is the industry norm for runaway productions, is to use states with comprable facilites against each other so state governments have to increase subsidies. But there is another method the studios use to get film production subsidies.

Enter Alan Horn. During his tenure at Warner Brothers, he played a key role in how they get film production subsidies. As you may know, all of the Harry Potter films were shot in the United Kingdom, partially at the request of JK Rowling, but also because of the British film industry's talent pool. When it became clear that the Harry Potter franchise would be seen through to the end of the books, Warner Brothers and British Film interests lobbied for hard for a film subsidy. The argument went, as you can read here (34 & 35 http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldselect/ldcomuni/37/3705.htm), "we, foreign productions, make up 68 percent of all film production dollars spent in the United Kingdom. Therefore we would like support from the state to keep investing those production dollars in the UK.” It worked and those subsidies successfully not only kept Harry Potter in the UK, we will get back to the boy who lived later, but Warner Brothers expanded its UK backlot to accommodate more production. Warner's backlot expansion also mirrors the recently approved expansion of Pinewood's Shepperton Studio where Episode VII and Age of Ultron are currently filming.

Alan oversaw another big franchise which received generous tax credits; Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Ring’s Trilogy. Peter Jackson, a kiwi, made a strong argument to New Line that New Zealand could provide the backdrop necessary to recreate Middle Earth. Warners pushed New Zealand hard for government support of the trilogy with $150 million in subsidies. In the years after the success of Jackson’s films, New Zealand saw a 40 percent surge in visitors thanks to a phenomenon known as “Tolkien Tourism” with tours of the sets and landscapes from the films. (The films and subsequent subsidies also helped establish New Zealand in the VFX industry with Jackson’s Weta Digital (Non-LotR credits include the recent Planet of the Apes films, The Avengers and the upcoming Avatar films). Warner Brothers used these developments to demand more money from New Zealand to keep production of the Hobbit there as has Cameron and Fox for the Avatar sequels (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/b...-hollywood-put-on-its-map.html?pagewanted=all).

Despite the drama between Warner Brothers and New Zealand, Abu Dhabi couldn't be happier to throw money at Disney/Lucasfilm. Both Abu Dhabi and its sister emirate Dubai have tried very hard to lure film production and have failed. by the Abu Dhabi and Dubai film commissions own count only a handful of Hollywood productions have been shot there. Films shot in both emirates include and are limited to “Syrianna”(2005) starring George Clooney, produced by Warner Brothers, and “The Kingdom” (2007) starring Jamie Foxx. In recent years, Abu Dhabi has attracted “The Bourne Legacy” and “Deliver Us From Evil” and Dubai was able to score none other than Brad Bird’s “Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol”; which prominently features a sequence shot outside the Burj Khalifa and Tom Cruise trying to outrun a sandstorm. Abu Dhabi, which has also dipped its toes in the film financing arena with none other than Alan Horn’s WB in the late 00’s. knows that no one wants to shoot there. For the Abu Dhabi film commission, Episode VII represents a coup for an aggressive push to try to get the Emirate more Hollywood film productions.(http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/abu-dhabi-boosts-hollywood-connections-1201219369/) As you may know, the original plan was for Episode VII to shoot desert sequences in Tunisia. When Lucasfilm and Disney started to get concerned about violence in Tunisia’s neighbor Libya spilling over, Abu Dhabi swooped in before anyone else and offered the film their recently increased 30% tax rebate; currently Abu Dhabi’s is among the highest film production subsidies (Vancouver bests them at 35%). While Morocco may be a more suitable alternative to Tunisia, also closer to the production's home base in the UK, how could they turn down free money?

Now that I have established enough context, let’s talk about Abu Dhabi and the United Arab Emirates' dark side. Abu Dhabi may project an image as a modern cosmopolitan, but it is ultimately a city built on slave labor with one of the harshest justice systems in the world. Abu Dhabi’s exploitation of migrant works has been well documented. If you would like to read more, I have included some articles Let’s not forget that being gay is a crime where punishments include imprisonment, gay conversion therapy, or, if you’re lucky, deportation. More When considering which countries Disney shoots its high profile tentpoles in, shouldn’t they consider how their hosts treat their others. For a company that refused many calls by Abu Dhabi and Dubai to build a theme park out of concerns for their BRAND, why is it now appropriate to take their film subsidies for one of their highest profile projects. In taking these subsidies, they are allowing a country with a LOT of baggage the opportunity to be associated with the Star Wars BRAND. Disney/Lucasfilm is letting their brand be tarnished by association with Abu Dhabi to make them look better. Change you really be a “Force for Change” when you take money from a country built on slavery?

The long term impact of Disney/Lucasfilm’s choice to shoot in Abu Dhabi is hard to tell at this point, but the legacy of the franchises Alan oversaw at Warner Brothers and legacy of Star Wars offers a precedent. As Tolkien Tourism has brought hundreds of thousands of LotR fans to a country they likely would have never visited, the physical sets have taken on a special role as a rite of passage for fans. Warner Brothers and local entrepreneurs have been keen to this trend by working to keep the Hobbit village, a highlight of any visit to Middle Earth, in top condition. With Harry Potter, they took this even further with a special tour at their UK backlot which features special recreations of the sets, original exterior and interior sets, props, and a gift shop (naturally). The abandonment of the Tatooine sets from the original “Star Wars” in Tunisia has been well documented. But thanks to fan interest, you can now take tours of the original trilogy sets as part of vacation packages to Tunisia. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/18/travel/star-wars-visit-taooine-sahara/) To think that Abu Dhabi does not want a permanent Star Wars presence along the lines of the WB Harry Potter Tour or the Tolkien Tourism to attract fans to visit would be foolish. Abu Dhabi very badly wants to be a tourist destination and by having the remains of one of the biggest franchises of all time it knows fans will shell out.

Which brings us back to Comic Con. Fans absolutely love these franchises, they are a big part of their identities. They love to watch these films, play the games, read the comics, and have the opportunity to meet other fans at a venue like Comic Con. They spend lots of money on rare items and sit in lines for hours to get a glimpse of their favorite stars and see brand new footage first. These are the folks who may one day make the pilgrimage to visit the sets from Episode VII. Does Lucasfilm want its fans, through evangelization of their visits, to make a repressive country look good?

Hopefully that broke the ice on this very important topic.

Wow that was amazing and fascinating and informative. Had no idea where these film franchises were/are shot could be so significant.
 

stevehousse

Well-Known Member
In regards to Hollywood and movies, every few years there is always a year that just doesn't have that many good movies comin out. 2014 is one of those years unfortunately. There have been few movies that have really been amazing...

2015 is a whole nother story. SO many awesome movies coming out! 2015 is gonna be a great year for movies! I wish it was 2015 already...
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I'm honestly more fond of a more warrior like Wonder Woman.. this artist is a fine example on portraying Wonder woman as a "warrior". http://nebezial.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&q=wonder

I'm totally down with her being "fierce" (for lack of a better word) and look like a warrior. She doesn't have to be wearing a bland Xena knockoff to achieve that as this artwork shows. You can use the classic red/blue/yellow look in a less cartoony fashion and pull off something intimidating.
 

Absimilliard

Well-Known Member
Did we get any observations? Feel free to drop the thoughts in here. I'd love to chat about TDR. And I'm sure we could even get @WDWFigment to join us if he can put down his Gelatoni plush first!

I did a TR, but it is in french on another forum! I did not think there would be that much interest for a TR since I have a particular writing style and got odd tastes. I'll do observations...

Basically, this whole Japan trip was a spur of the moment booked two weeks before thing. My objectives were very simple:

1- Do a video game crawl through Akihabara and visit Artnia, the Square Soft store/Cafe next to their HQ in Shinjuku.

2- Go to Tokyo Disney, to clean my palate and get a real Disney experience, as my visit in november 2013 to EPCOT brought me back dark memories of the worst days of Six Flags in early 2000.

3- Go ride the Veil of Dark at Sega Joypolis.

I completed all those objectives in 4 days. I did two days at Tokyo Disney with a day at each park and spent my 3rd day visiting a friend, going to Akihabara and spending an evening at the Joypolis. I stayed at the very nice Comfort Hotel Kiyosumi-Shinagawa. Very good single rate (65$ US a night) that included a breakfast and convenient location. Great made from scratch Ramen noodles from the stand of a nice lady between the hotel and subway entrance. It is also right on top of a Family Mart, one of those awesome japanese convenience store.

To get to Disney from my hotel was 25 minutes with two transfers. Cost 6$ each way in subway and JR train tickets.

My first day was Tokyo Disneyland, since the great free english crowd calendar correctly predicted it would be slower at that park that day. I misread the website, so I arrived at 7:30am for a 9am park opening. I was the only one there and got in line for tickets. At 8 am, bought a two days magic passport (1 day each park for first two days, park hopper on 3rd and 4th day if you buy that much) for 110$ and was the 5th in line at a turnstile. Shortly before park opening, the characters come out on the park side of the gate and start doing mini shows and just goofing around. So much fun!

At 9 am, I ran to Monsters Inc. Ride & Go Seek and got a 10:30 am fast pass. So, I stayed on that side and rode Space Mountain (first ride was smooth, second ride was brutal. The ride itself got the best loading station, but it was interesting to ride old school with no music playing during the ride) and Star Tours 2 (Awesome waiting line and great Hitchhiking Droids gag!). I got a buzz lightyear fast pass at 10:30 am and rode it later... What a dissapointment! It is a poorer version than DL, DLP and HKDL. Too short.

Crowds were actually reasonable that day and Monsters Inc. did not run out of Fast Pass until mid afternoon. The line for it also died down to 15-20 minutes in the evening, so I rode it 3 times that day. I LOVED the attraction. The interaction complimented the ride and the animatronics are amazing. Boo is so life like!

Did Splash Mountain as a single rider twice later. Wow, what a tight fit! From what I could gather, they changed the lap bars from what it had originally, which are the ones that WDW retrofitted to their Splash Mountain, to Everest style individual lap bars. Problem is, I am 6'3 and got long legs and getting the bar to go over my knees was a challenge, but it was not uncomfortable. The best news through is that the ride has a 36 inches height restriction cause of the lap bars.

Did Big Thunder Mountain twice and the first time, gave a Fast Pass crash course to a nice family from Canada who were at the park. I ran into them later and they thanked me, as they cut their waits a lot with it. They through at first there was a fee for it. Big Thunder Mountain also got modified since my last visit in 2009. They added those feet guards that were retrofitted to all the others (after that incident at DL where a kid lost his foot because he tried getting out of the train before it was parked) and also added soft seat dividers to the seat. That effectively mean you can't ride 3 to a row anymore. Ride itself is still my favorite version, thank to its themed first and last tunnel and great drop at the end.

Pooh's Hunny Hunt and Jungle Cruise were closed for rehab.

Food wise, I had a great Calzone at the restaurant at the exit of Star Tours, which is the Pangalactic Pizza Port. Stuffed full of seafood and quite delicious! On the recommendation of a friend, I tried a slice of pizza from the Captain Hook Galley in Fantasyland. Not a large slice, but for the price and quality, I was satisfied. My last meal that day was at the Eastside Cafe in World Bazaar. This is a sitdown italian restaurant and I had their special "Easter Set Menu" where for 25$ US, I had a 3 course meal with non alcoholic beverages. I was a walk in and got seated right away. The food was pretty good with scallop-prosciutto appetizer, bacon-palm hearts spaghettini and a white chocolate mousse with Amaretto sauce as the dessert. It was the best meal I have had at a Disney park since I went to the Napa Rose in California in 2013.

The Disneyland Hotel is interesting. Pretty, but that thing is huge! It feels a lot bigger when you're inside then when you're looking at it from the monorail station.

Best daytime parade I have ever seen? Their temporary for 3 months Easter parade! "Hoppity Spring Parade" was full of energy, the floats were amazing, characters had custom costumes and the music was amazing.

Best parade ever? Still is the Tokyo Disneyland Electrical Parade Dreamlights. Nothing come close!

Next day was Tokyo Disney Sea. Crowds were a little heavier, but I managed to have a great day.

I arrived at 7:30am for a 8:30am park opening. I was a bit further inline, but I powerwalked and got a 10:45 am fast pass for Toy Story Mania! Line was INSANE for fast passes and in the morning, the street leading from Mediterranean Harbor to the ride was actually divided in 3. Left line for those leaving the ride, middle line for Fast Pass ticketing and right side for Stand-By. Ride is still very popular. For the ride itself, I through the ride portion was a little more themed than the US versions. The waiting line made more sense, as you transitioned through a large bedroom door and the ride "was under the bed".

Tower of Terror is better than even the WDW version for me. The haunting music and the creepy Shiriki Utundu won it for me.

The only ride merchandise I found at the resort were some t shirts and blue helmets at the exit shop of Monsters Inc. and some items at the exit of TOT. I bought great t shirts from TOT and even bought a small Shiriki Utundu bobble head.

Was great just walking up to characters and getting pictures. Loved the Steam Punk outfits for Goofy and Chip n Dale over at Port Discovery.

I'll continue later...
 

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