Soarin 2.0 excites you? A boat ride which has been done 1000 times already excites you? Avatar, the IP, excites you?
Hey, I defended the project. I called the haters out several times saying they will all be there when Avatar opens despite their claims to the contrary. I've even tried to point out there yes, in fact, there are some fans out there. Yes, I'd visit the area when it opens. But, truth be told, Avatar isn't a gripping IP, unlike Potter or Star Wars. Yes, Avatar did very well for itself in theaters. But, do people care about it as much as they do Potter? Star Wars? Star Trek?
And please, point out what I said that was inaccurate.
Alright, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a second. Would you all still be as excited if you found out Stars Wars Land was just going to expand JTA to all ages, a stunt show, a meet and greet, a 7DMT like coaster through a E wok Forest, a restaurant with Character Lunches and Dinners and nightly firework extravaganza? (not saying this is whats going to happen) Or would you be more excited for Avatarland?
I'm pretty hyped for Avatar. If Disney does a great job recreating Pandora and the two rides are truly quality it would be a home run in my book. No one would care if it's based on an IP not as well known as Star Wars. If it's done right it will be spectacular IMO.
Soarin 2.0 excites you? A boat ride which has been done 1000 times already excites you? Avatar, the IP, excites you?
Hey, I defended the project. I called the haters out several times saying they will all be there when Avatar opens despite their claims to the contrary. I've even tried to point out there yes, in fact, there are some fans out there. But, truth be told, Avatar isn't a gripping IP, unlike Potter or Star Wars. Yes, Avatar did very well for itself in theaters. But, do people care about it as much as they do Potter? Star Wars? Star Trek?
And please, point out what I said that was inaccurate.
You're right, but it's not all about the IP. Though this debate has occurred countless times before, I, personally, am excited to see floating mountains. And, as a matter of fact, I am excited for the boat ride. Avatar might not be attractive as an IP, but it is attractive as an environment and a backstory (the whole avatar program). It won't resonate much nostalgia or memories from the film, but it will create a sense of wonder, IMHO, if executed correctly. Again, this debate has been had, so lets agree to disagree.
Dang it! You know what I really want? A 3D-Circlevision Omnimover that goes backward and has a working Yeti!
Really, I just want something that has the same feel of effort and detail that is Carsland in DCF. Star Wars, Avatar, Guardians of the Galaxy, whatever. Oh, and also crank the air conditioning back up a little bit.
Alright, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a second. Would you all still be as excited if you found out Stars Wars Land was just going to expand JTA to all ages, a stunt show, a meet and greet, a 7DMT like coaster through a E wok Forest, a restaurant with Character Lunches and Dinners and nightly firework extravaganza? (not saying this is whats going to happen) Or would you be more excited for Avatarland?
Since we don't know what is in store for Star Wars, but we do know sort of what is in store for Avatar, I think this is a bit unfair.. But to play along: if all Disney did was expand JTA to all ages, a stunt show, a meet and greet, a kiddie coaster, a walk through of Ewok village, a restaurant, and fireworks, we would all laugh Disney off the face of the earth. No one in their right mind would even attempt to want to hype that up, except for the brand advocates like Lou...
Now, if they announced Star Wars with a revolutionary ride system, never been done before, a first of its kind, which takes you into the world of Star Wars, immerses you into the world created by George Lucas, then the hype machine will be nonstop.
Since we don't know what is in store for Star Wars, but we do know sort of what is in store for Avatar, I think this is a bit unfair.. But to play along: if all Disney did was expand JTA to all ages, a stunt show, a meet and greet, a kiddie coaster, a walk through of Ewok village, a restaurant, and fireworks, we would all laugh Disney off the face of the earth. No one in their right mind would even attempt to want to hype that up, except for the brand advocates like Lou...
Now, if they announced Star Wars with a revolutionary ride system, never been done before, a first of its kind, which takes you into the world of Star Wars, immerses you into the world created by George Lucas, then the hype machine will be nonstop.
It is unfair but that's my point. People keep screaming Star Wars Land but we don't know what it entails or what is going to entail. What happens if its a major disappointment. We should root for them to get Avatarland right first and to focus on getting that perfect instead of value engineered. Then move onto Star Wars with an 100% focus to A. Not make the mistakes they will make with Pandora and B. To capitalize on the successes they do make with Pandora.
More importantly if they can't even keep the stuff they have now in show condition (Yeti AA, SDMT cottage scene, SDMT ride, some dinos on Dinosaur for example) and these are the latest and greatest, the moment they mess up with Star Wars and its not working right, there will be a lot more vocal complaints especially 1 to 2 months in and it keeps happening. Fix that stuff before Star Wars unless they do decide to do something totally radical with a 100% unique and new ride experience then people will be more forgiving.
A's QQ zesty we1 both WDW and Universal continue to grow and add more and more hotels to their parks the importance of Orlando residents will continue to drop. The parks make their money on vacationers not the local residents.
Soarin 2.0 excites you? A boat ride which has been done 1000 times already excites you? Avatar, the IP, excites you?
Hey, I defended the project. I called the haters out several times saying they will all be there when Avatar opens despite their claims to the contrary. I've even tried to point out there yes, in fact, there are some fans out there. Yes, I'd visit the area when it opens. But, truth be told, Avatar isn't a gripping IP, unlike Potter or Star Wars. Yes, Avatar did very well for itself in theaters. But, do people care about it as much as they do Potter? Star Wars? Star Trek?
And please, point out what I said that was inaccurate.
I agree with you about Pandora in that the rides themselves are nothing special. However, if the entire land is done correctly and brings you into Pandora it will be amazing. It's like most rides, they have all been done before. It's hard to come up with something completely new.
I'm pretty hyped for Avatar. If Disney does a great job recreating Pandora and the two rides are truly quality it would be a home run in my book. No one would care if it's based on an IP not as well known as Star Wars. If it's done right it will be spectacular IMO.
A less than amusing IP can turn into a wonderful theme park land or attraction, if done right.
Cars isn't my favorite Pixar film franchise. But Disney hit a home run with Cars Land.
Transformers isn't my favorite either, but what a great attraction Uni made out of it.
The Twilight Zone was no Happy Days or other highly acclaimed show, but Tower of Terror is one of my favorites.
and the classic example, Song of the South. Didn't even know it was a Disney film before riding Splash...and I didn't care.
Avatar could fall into this list as well. It has the potential to if done right. I truly hope it does.
It is unfair but that's my point. People keep screaming Star Wars Land but we don't know what it entails or what is going to entail. What happens if its a major disappointment. We should root for them to get Avatarland right first and to focus on getting that perfect instead of value engineered. Then move onto Star Wars with an 100% focus to A. Not make the mistakes they will make with Pandora and B. To capitalize on the successes they do make with Pandora.
But see, we were discussing hype... Yes, I think we all want Star Wars. I think many of us trust Disney to do it right, and that they will do it right, because of the IP involved and because of what Universal did up the road with Potter.
If Iger stood on a stage in front of Cinderella Castle tomorrow and announced in 5 years there would be a Star Wars land coming to DHS, without any specifics, the hype machine would kick into over drive, based on the IP alone. Which is what my point was. Avatar, as an IP, is not exciting to people, which is why there is no hype. Now, maybe when they finally get around to detailing the ride, maybe the hype picks up, especially if it winds up being more than a 3D Soarin. Maybe the hype machine generates some over time if the land is truly immersive. But the IP alone isn't worth enough to get the hype going.
Now, if Iger announces Star Wars tomorrow, and the hype machine goes into over drive, and all they do is what you said above: they will not only be laughing stocks on fan sites, but the media in general will crucify Disney. They will have egg on their face.
In this case, IP plays a very important roll in the hype.
I think you need to broaden your mind a little... Because nothing is as obvious as you say it is.. (specially if you take into consideration that everyone starts as a newbie in everything)
Last year was my first ever visit to WDW. And despite how meticulous I am regarding planning...
there was NOT A SINGLE SHEET OF PAPER informing us of what FP was.. nor in the papers the resort gave us (including the magicbands packages) nor in the papers our Vendor operator gave us(the travelagency).
With all due respect, you never looked at a Park Map? They are everywhere at WDW, from the front desks of the resorts, to the ticket turn-style, overflowing in the entrance under the train at MK (the best place to grab a handful if you want for us who just have to have 100's each visit LOL), handed out by CM's, at the counter of virtually every single cash register in the parks.
I wasn't exaggerating - they explain it on one page with cartoon characters. I understand that you did not, but I have a hard time thinking that very many folks don't even flip through the park map, even just while standing in line. I don't have a scan handy, but I am sure someone does - there was an entire page with 1, 2, 3 steps to use it, showing it was free for everyone and explained it perfectly. You really read all that data they sent beforehand and didn't pick up a park map when you got there? (Though I blame that on Disney as they stopped sending the full park maps out to folks in the 90's.)
The only two "unofficial" things that weren't featured were the fact that, up until the rules were revisited, CM's generally would let you in even if the window had passed, as long as it was after the start time, and that a few of the FP kiosks weren't networked so you didn't have to wait to get another one at another attraction. But that's the extent of the "secrets".
I mean, they even have a CM standing in front of most of them who if you ask will hand you a park map, or explain it to you, or both.
Rocket science it was not - but now, it almost is. The most recent guidemaps direct you to an app, on a certain type of phone that you have to have. That right there cuts folks out (and even if they have it, weird I know, some folks don't bring them to the parks, crazy as that sounds). And the exclusions just keep going from there - where before, everyone who had a ticket and walked in was treated the same and had the same opportunities to use the FP system.
I realize I am in the minority on this but I just do not see the big deal with a Cars clone coming to DHS. I would be willing to wager a fair number of WDW visitors never make it to DLR. I would also be fine with an Indy ride as well as Mystic Manor attraction in Orlando. Just my 2 cents
I agree. I'd be willing to bet that probably 5% of folks who walk into a WDW park on any given day may have ever been to another Disney park location. "Clones" is such a pejorative in DisneyFandom, but used properly they are a great idea.
As smart as a move as it would be, I highly doubt Disney will give an announcement in the next few weeks to steal Unis thunder. Just don't think they would want to, well, do the project, and it might come off as kind of a **** move.
But, they are, in a way, doing it with the rat ride opening 2 days later. Although that is in a different continent...
It would be stupid, reactionary, and do no good if they announced anything now. The public isn't us, paying so close attention to this.
They won't do it, but the SMART thing to be would be to start building now - and have a time table that doesn't have it being half-a-decade until construction is complete. Some will have you think that is impossible, but Universal sure seems to do it much more quickly. And then announce part way through - "This will be here next year!" Not "in five years, guests will be able to..."
That's what books repeat trips as well - "next year" makes folks more motivated than "come back in 5 years..."
But no, they won't do that - even with the absolutely guaranteed blockbuster Star Wars in their pocket, Disney just plays too conservatively and that's why we are in the predicament we are today. It's not just Disney, it's a corporate thing - it used to be "Well, we'll take a loss this year if we spend on this, but in Year 2, 3, 4 is when we will see significant ROI" - because stocks have gone from long-term to short-term investments in overall mindset, and most folks rotate in and out so quickly of decision makers, it's "if this can't increase the bottom line pretty much immediately, forgeddaboutit".
All good points, but it's looking like there's more of a chance that Ep7 could get pushed to May '16:
As for the other SW movies, it would be a headache, but they can each just get pushed back a year or six mos. Not sure how Marvel would feel if a SW movie opens a couple weeks (even three) after one of their tentpoles.
Lucasfilm denied that today. The film was already delayed once, they had a nice window of time built in there, and with the amount of effects work and everything else, it basically is just going to mean folks end up staying in London longer, or have to come back later. The "machine" has already begun, this time table has been very carefully laid out with manufacturers, etc. - the are not going to miss Xmas 2015. They are just going to shuffle things around a bit untraditionally.
Something interesting came by on my Tumblr dash in regards to a certain Universal movie related to IoA that might be a clever dig at the competition
Photos from extras on the Jurassic World set indicate that the dinosaur park where things are about to go horribly wrong is using colored plastic wristbands for their admission tickets
They don't hate, they just don't care. I know folks that have grown up in Orlando who have only been to the parks once or twice. It simply isn't the culture there like it is in Southern California, where (well up until recently and the hikes) it was kind of a right of passage for a lot of middle-class folks to have AP's to Disneyland.
Local guests rarely stay at resorts. They usually eat more off-site (breakfast at home, maybe fast food lunch in the park, eat on your way out or again at home). Sure, occasionally they may eat a special meal or something, but in general - they don't spend a lot of money on a day at Disney, so they just don't register on the spreadsheets as folks who need to be especially courted.
Some of you don't realize I am critical of Disney as well...(lord knows they have things they need to do and improve on) and there are parts of Uni I do like...(and they have their own problems as well) I just don't buy into all the hype that Uni is the best theme park in the world and is gonna put WDW out of business
I always thought the most ludicrous aspect of MM+ was the option to pre-order meals far in advance. I know there are a some obsessive-compulsive planners among Disney visitors, but for nearly everyone that is just silly.
That said, I have to mention that this actually is the only thing that I thought was "neat" about the whole endeavor, only because I am so weird about eating out. Now, as long as I have had that feeling I have known that it was just a crazy me thing and yes, the entire thought is absurd, but for my personal quirks, I do like that LOL.
I really don't like going to a restaurant that I don't know the menu and what I want before hand. I always check online. I have very predictable tastes. I often find myself at restaurants feeling pressured to order because I'm usually with friends and really going over the menu when I'm trying to socialize makes me always feel like I wasn't quite ready, and I won't be "that" person to hold everyone up, so I just order whatever.
Although at Disney, it's more about making sure they have anything I'll eat - I always study menus beforehand (and keep them on my phone now that we are all fancy) because a) I like food, LOL, and b) they often have such limited selections at Disney, that if some place only offers 3-4 different choices, normally there is only going to be one choice that really appeals to me, so knowing beforehand let's me know there is something I will like.
But that's just my personal crazy - LOL - I find it more absurd the time frame, I'd love to order the night before or that morning, but as you have said - the entire thing is just nutty.
Or maybe there is no hype over Avatar cause it is a boring IP which no one cares about????? Now, if they announced Star Wars in 2012, and wasn't opening it until 2017, there would be constant hype... IP matters a lot in cases such as these... If Avatar was more popular, or people cared more about it, .
I'm pretty hyped for Avatar. If Disney does a great job recreating Pandora and the two rides are truly quality it would be a home run in my book. No one would care if it's based on an IP not as well known as Star Wars. If it's done right it will be spectacular IMO.
There is nobody out there pushing this IP to the masses at the moment. But there will be. There will be. And then all the smack talkers on wdwmagic will have egg on their faces. Again.
Has everyone really forgotten the absolute craze around the first movie? (rhetorical).
And people still second guessing Cameron's ability to deliver.
Evening folks, hope all is well as the thunder booms down here in paradise.
First off, I did bleed some today, but ... this is the important part -- I am NOT DEAD YET!!!
I had hoped to try and catch up on this thread, but that would take me about two dozen pages and who knows how much time and even with me not working full time right now that is something I can't do. I also realized that stepping into that Disney vs. UNI Round 5,678,987 here last night wasn't the most productive use of my time.
Since more than a few of you saw (and 'liked') a post or two of mine that disappeared in the night understand that wasn't the work of the mods. That was me. I've been in a very ornery mood of late and decided to pile some back on the Twits who seem to go after me with religious-like fervor. I don't like it but I get that they feel empowered by talking in a vacuum, by never having discussions of weight because you can't on Twitter, by never having opposing PoV to deal with. And they all feel like kewl kids on their eighth iPhone while we're still walking around with our flip phones (Metro PCS has some godawful commercials out on this subject now!) And I also realized that what do I even say to someone called 'Todd Dupler' or to someone pretending to be a dead CEO (hey, here's an idea ... let Card RIP and bury that schtick with D23, among the 'it was tired almost as soon as it started' idea pile) ... or to someone who I often praise both here and in the real world, Fidel's little bro Andy Castro, who has some crazy notion that I am trying to get an old member here to post again when he has a great little Lifestyle BRAND going for himself etc. It all is insane as are many members of the fan community (here, there and everywhere).
But since some of you asked what went down, I wanted to let you know. This is what got me going when I should have likely ignored it and the people there:
One thing that Andy C mentions was how Twitter has changed the way the Disney fan community interacts and exchanges information and he is quite right about that. The sad thing is that he, and many others, think it changed for the better.
Since we don't know what is in store for Star Wars, but we do know sort of what is in store for Avatar, I think this is a bit unfair.. But to play along: if all Disney did was expand JTA to all ages, a stunt show, a meet and greet, a kiddie coaster, a walk through of Ewok village, a restaurant, and fireworks, we would all laugh Disney off the face of the earth. No one in their right mind would even attempt to want to hype that up, except for the brand advocates like Lou...
Now, if they announced Star Wars with a revolutionary ride system, never been done before, a first of its kind, which takes you into the world of Star Wars, immerses you into the world created by George Lucas, then the hype machine will be nonstop.
There is nobody out there pushing this IP to the masses at the moment. But there will be. There will be. And then all the smack talkers on wdwmagic will have egg on their faces. Again.
Has everyone really forgotten the absolute craze around the first movie? (rhetorical).
And people still second guessing Cameron's ability to deliver.
Cameron delivered with a good visual, not with a good narrative. The craze was because it was pretty visuals that we had never seen before. Not because the movie was good. However, if they make the land equivalent to what the concept art showed, they may have a win. If they don't, then it will not be a magical day at the most Magical Place on Earth.
I'm here, for a bit. It would have been easier if we didn't have about 10 active threads on this board essentially discussing the same things:
1.) Potter 2.0;
2.) The right now mythical Star Wars Land;
3.) Disney vs. UNI;
4.) What HTF thinks of this;
5.) Stuff closing (or not) for SW construction (that is still the stuff of myth);
6.) Why attendance numbers are not nearly as important as fanbois think;
7.) MM+ and how it fits in with any/all of the above.
I don't know how anyone who isn't here 24 hours a day keeps up with all the nonsense.
Soarin 2.0 excites you? A boat ride which has been done 1000 times already excites you? Avatar, the IP, excites you?
Hey, I defended the project. I called the haters out several times saying they will all be there when Avatar opens despite their claims to the contrary. I've even tried to point out there yes, in fact, there are some fans out there. Yes, I'd visit the area when it opens. But, truth be told, Avatar isn't a gripping IP, unlike Potter or Star Wars. Yes, Avatar did very well for itself in theaters. But, do people care about it as much as they do Potter? Star Wars? Star Trek?
And please, point out what I said that was inaccurate.
I hope they have a stand selling doohickeys to attach to them.
