The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
LOL @Lee - never would have pegged him for having the bromance gene. :)

@Lee is one of the finest men I know and I am, truly, proud to call him my friend (if any of you tell him this, I will hunt you down and cover your home in 1997 EPCOT guide maps)!

And I am not 'just' saying that because I find his wife to be ... one fine specimen of womanhood!

L
I too totally notice all the details like that - it's just me, as well. I notice the cash register receipts, the napkins, the branding on the cups...it all registers with me. I think that's the difference between "us" (the folks who get it, if I may be so bold, the "Reality Crew"), the Lifestylers, and the general public.

The general public doesn't give a fig about finding an off-brand product at a competing park.

The Reality Crew notices it, kind of goes "aw..." and misses the old days when it just wasn't necessary, but realizes in reality the cash that buys the product isn't worth any less to the folks running the stores. Gotta sell what sells.

The Lifestyler's head explodes, because they are stuck in a Chinatown "She's my sister/She's my daughter/She's my sister!"-slap fest between "Disney should not be supporting other brands!" (or vice versa), and "But everything Disney does must be cute and wonderful and good and we should be happy with whatever we get!" until their poor minds just can't take it any more. (Rinse, repeat.)

Yep. Agreed. BTW, nice to see you posting again. We have lost too many valued voices here (but at least the nuts haven't staged a coup!)
 

wogwog

Well-Known Member
I heard that too. Forgot to ask if there were any blackouts at the other parks this summer at all ... WDW parks, that is.
Mr. Poker just looked it up. Just AK Saturdays in July and first two Sats in Aug. Thinks that is for the Lion King night show. Studios only Aug 23. None at Epcot.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
where would a club 33 even go at wdw? Im guessing magic kingdom?

I have heard two locations thrown out at MK (and not going to put them out just yet) ... but I've also heard of a 'satellite' location at Studios (which sorta makes me think of what 1901 is at DCA). But this thing seems to be taking forever to get off the ground.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Generally, hotel profitability is rather like a hockey stick. Using a fictitious hotel as an example, a 50% occupancy rate is needed for that hotel to breakeven on profitability. Above that level, the incremental cost of servicing additional guests plummets. In this example, the difference in profitability between a 50% and a 60% occupancy rate can be significant.

Conversely, a slightly lower occupancy rate can have a tremendous effect on profitability.

Ideally, Disney wants to set room rates in order to maximize total profit. Disney wants to balance between occupancy and room rate to produce the greatest margin. This balance depends on what the market will bear.

Historically, WDW operated at an incredibly high occupancy rate that approached and often exceeded 90%.

In the last 5 years, WDW's occupancy has headed downward.

In 2013, WDW's hotel occupancy rate was in the mid-70% range, a level comparable to 2002, a time when WDW closed wings and even entire hotels in the post-9/11 environment.

There are several possible reasons for this. However, given the strong theme park attendance in the last couple of years, what's clear is that, in growing numbers, paying customers no longer are finding 'value' in onsite stays. The gap between actual price and perceived value has grown large enough so that hotel occupancy is down even as theme park attendance is up.

Ideally, Disney wants both high prices and high occupancy. The way to achieve this is to add perceived value in WDW's hotels, taking advantage of Disney's unique position.

We already are familiar with this concept through Extra Magic Hours (EMH) and Disney's Magical Express (DME). Both provide customers with reasons to spend more to stay onsite. However, at current prices, these are no longer enough, resulting in an erosion of WDW's occupancy rate.

Realistically, Disney is not going to lower prices. They are at the point where they run "30% off" promotions for most of the year and yet occupancy remains stubbornly low.

Therefore, Disney needs to find new ways to add perceived value to onsite stays. As an extreme example, if Disney offered "50% off" theme park tickets to onsite guests, then occupancy would skyrocket. MyMagic+ represents another opportunity for Disney to differentiate itself with area hotels to provide perceived value.

Unfortunately, Disney's current management has been insultingly obtuse in their pricing strategies of late.

The Disney Dining Plan (DDP) used to offer about the equivalent of a 20% discount to guests who purchased it. "Agree to stay onsite & eat all you meals at a Disney restaurant, and we'll offer a discount." More recently, DDP prices have increased so much that it pretty much requires ordering the most expensive item on the menu and eating every bite in order to realize any financial savings. Today's DDP is nothing more than a prepaid meal plan. If you want a prepaid meal plan that provides a better value, then go purchase a debit card before your trip.

Earlier this year, Disney raised the price of a 5-day ticket by $15 and then immediately offered a "free day" (the equivalent of $10) to parties of 6 or more. P.T. Barnum aside, most guests are not that stupid.

Disney management needs to get more creative and offer real value. Simplistically, Disney needs to find new ways for the customer to perceive $2 in value for something that cost Disney $1.
To get the numbers up they need to add attractions and reduce the level of increases and/or keep prices stagnant. Failing that, a restructuring of the ticket plans or something else at a Magical Express level of innovation may help. It's what they wanted My Magic+ to be but by all accounts it appears the cost of this has voided any potential benefits relative to the 2005-2006 changes.
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
I think its cute that you call certain Disney fans Lifestylers, because you think you are above them in some way. When in fact, you are the only insider who feels self important enough to create threads named after himself, which actually contain very little insider info when you get down to it. You are also the only Disney poster, who feels the need to put others down in a way that's hurtful(the overweight, homosexuals, etc), for no good reason.

You honestly don't think some Disney fans are below other Disney fans? There are levels of insanity of fanboys out there and twitter especially shows it. (Hey Michael, if you're reading this, stop using your other account on twitter where you pretend you're a dead CEO...it scares me.)

The Spirit actually does have credible sources. You see darling, some of us in Media can get to these sources without whoring our time and social media posts for information.

The Spirit has made jokes about his spirited self before on here. He's sort of like Duffy the Bear: lovable but misunderstood. :p
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
It's because the incorrectly regard it as a mature market. It was an easy defense to the public since they took over in 2005. However, Universal has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the market hasn't matured.

WDW is only a mature product because they view it that way; its a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Could you imagine what they could do if they dropped 500m or $1B into SW at DHS?
 

StageFrenzy

Well-Known Member
I have heard two locations thrown out at MK (and not going to put them out just yet) ... but I've also heard of a 'satellite' location at Studios (which sorta makes me think of what 1901 is at DCA). But this thing seems to be taking forever to get off the ground.
Surprising because of the quick ROI.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
You honestly don't think some Disney fans are below other Disney fans? There are levels of insanity of fanboys out there and twitter especially shows it. (Hey Michael, if you're reading this, stop using your other account on twitter where you pretend you're a dead CEO...it scares me.)

The Spirit actually does have credible sources. You see darling, some of us in Media can get to these sources without whoring our time and social media posts for information.

The Spirit has made jokes about his spirited self before on here. He's sort of like Duffy the Bear: lovable but misunderstood. :p

Well I do whoring on the side because I'm a freelancer; I need the money!
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Are there really multiple pages to the DAK to expand parking lot thread?

(I do think this might be one of the signs that the end of the world is near!)

And all we are doing is sitting here talking about Universal, for cripes sake. I'd rather not be. I'd rather be talking about how they are half-way through building Star Wars land, ground breaking to opening day in 2 short years. Or how I couldn't believe how they made 7DMT such an immersive experience, and even after five years it was more than worth losing the dark ride because we got all kinds of cool show scenes plus a fun outdoor segment. Or even, wow, isn't that nice that they replace the film in Soarin' every few years to keep it fresh, and how they keep those domes in tip-top shape.

But no, we've got parking lots. And bracelets. Lots and lots of bracelets.

It's because the incorrectly regard it as a mature market. It was an easy defense to the public since they took over in 2005. However, Universal has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the market hasn't matured.

Although it's kind of silly (OK, really silly) to take satisfaction (or grief, for that matter) over anything on the internet, I do have to say that I believe you and I were some of the early folks refuting this before Potter had to shave and theme park attractions were even rumored. I don't mind being proven right, LOL.

There was a strong contingent of very knowledgeable folks (much much more so than I) who disagreed for a long time and really believed the whole "market is saturated" thing, because that's what the marketing research said. It always seemed obvious to me that this wasn't the case, that a slam-bam combo of theme and attractions could bring a whole new audience to Florida, and the more some folks say "hey Disney isn't really lagging in attendance" yet at the same time Universal skyrocketed - it's pretty obvious many more folks go to Orlando now than did before.

In the end, we are all better for it - I think what some folks miss in these discussions is that while we may rag the heck out of Disney, but it's because...more than anyone, we want them to show Universal how it's done and really blow the lid off. That's why you see Star Wars getting such fan buzz, because if Disney threw the money at it, and for the first time in a long time that actually seems a remote possibility - what's a half billion or a billion with what they paid for Star Wars and what they expect to make over the next forty years - they could not even make the Potter Swatter, they could be the Potter Thermal Detonator.

But...we have bracelets. And Avatar to look forward to.

Yay?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You honestly don't think some Disney fans are below other Disney fans? There are levels of insanity of fanboys out there and twitter especially shows it. (Hey Michael, if you're reading this, stop using your other account on twitter where you pretend you're a dead CEO...it scares me.)

The Spirit actually does have credible sources. You see darling, some of us in Media can get to these sources without whoring our time and social media posts for information.

The Spirit has made jokes about his spirited self before on here. He's sort of like Duffy the Bear: lovable but misunderstood. :p

And like Olaf, I like warm hugs ... from anyone except Imagineers ...those are creepy!
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I have heard two locations thrown out at MK (and not going to put them out just yet) ... but I've also heard of a 'satellite' location at Studios (which sorta makes me think of what 1901 is at DCA). But this thing seems to be taking forever to get off the ground.

*COUGH*DERBY*COUGH*

WDW is only a mature product because they view it that way; its a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Could you imagine what they could do if they dropped 500m or $1B into SW at DHS?

I just about peed myself. You posted this in between when I clicked reply and when I finished typing.

You and I have definitely not always seen eye to eye, so I think it's incredibly fitting that we both said exactly the same thing with the exact same numbers at the same time as the same blue-sky "if only" thought. Not that it's not painfully obvious, but at the same time I found amusing, LOL.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
History (especially the past two decades) is littered with HUGE names in American business that either don't exist at all anymore or exist in a tiny form compared to past greatness.

I am always amused when people just ignorantly assume that WDW is forever. It isn't.

Disney, under Iger, views O-Town as a mature market, hence NGE, which was designed to get more $$$ out of existing guests. Much like DVC is also designed to get more from the chronics, the addicts etc. ... That line of thinking is so wrong in so many ways. Yet that is what Iger, Rasulo and Staggs have sold the BoD and Wall Street on. One might surmise that with UNI growing its business so organically that those parties are going to start demanding answers louder and louder.
Shameless self promotion of an old article:
http://micechat.com/62433-disneys-mymagic-failure/
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
My concern for DHS and Star Wars land is certainly how well TDO will allow Imagineering to do it. Those guys and gals will need $$$.

What if these sequels bomb? Same with Avatar's? All these delays, etc could have irrelevant lands open after there phases around 2020.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
*COUGH*DERBY*COUGH*



I just about peed myself. You posted this in between when I clicked reply and when I finished typing.

You and I have definitely not always seen eye to eye, so I think it's incredibly fitting that we both said exactly the same thing with the exact same numbers at the same time as the same blue-sky "if only" thought. Not that it's not painfully obvious, but at the same time I found amusing, LOL.

No, we haven't always seen eye-to-eye but theres a lot of things of late we're on the same side of. This is one of them. Because it frustrates me. 2005 ruined us, the happiest celebration on earth gave us false hope that there would be constant investment in the parks post 9/11.

Universal may never outdraw Disney but they have buzz and momentum. How much national press did Disney get with 7DMTC? Not much.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It better be in Graphic Design! We pay ours well! Sadly no discounts at the Grand Flo. $550+ a night for y'all.

people who pay that don't deserve to have the money ... I have stayed at world class hotels and resorts and not paid that.

The once I stayed at the Grand Flo (about a dozen years ago) I paid $169 a night and thought it wasn't worth that.

I do admit that I like the look of the villas there, although I feel dirty saying it.
 

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