The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[WDW1974]

there are still two pages to read, but i want to comment on this: the disney "magic" is largely subjective, but really referred to the disney difference; the attention to detail that existed at WDW that you couldn't find at a six flags, or busch gardens, or universal. so, yes, i do believe you have to experience the other parks to see if that difference still exists.

i was a long-time disney apologist. i went to universal once in 1995, then not again until 2011 because my wife wanted to see WWOHP. even then, i was uncomfortable to even be stepping foot in universal. fast forward to now and i've been at UNI twice in three years and am planning another trip to see potter phase 2. why? simply because there's a lot more, what i grew to know as, "disney quality" at universal than there is at WDW nowadays. any lifestyler who forsakes other parks to sing disney's praises is doing themselves and their readers an injustice.

I have seen things over the last two years at parks from SWO to BGT and BGW and Knott's -- and obviously UNI and IOA -- that are much, much better than WDW. Some small, some not so.

There was a time not all that long ago when nobody touched WDW on pretty much anything (except perhaps cost). It feels like ancient times, though.

 

[WDW1974]

This is one of the reasons why I love the "Kings" parks. Though their entryways and malls are slightly different, I actually love the fact that they diverted from using the typical Magic Kingdom style entrance with a street heading toward the castle, and instead went with a mall. I really enjoyed having lunch last weekend under shady trees next to the fountains along the main mall at Kings Island.

And as you can see @WDW1974 both Kings Island and Kings Dominion are full of #hubtrees!

BUT LETS TALK ABOUT THAT CONCRETE VIEWING SPACE TO SEE THE LOW PYRO FOR WISHES!

The best news I can give is that it won't be Wishes in a few years!

But the sickening slaughter of trees and turning the MK PARK into a hot as hell concrete jungle really doesn't get enough ripping in fan circles.

 

[StageFrenzy]

There was a time not all that long ago when nobody touched WDW on pretty much anything (except perhaps cost). It feels like ancient times, though.

Careful with ancient, it may become attached to your name. I would hate for someone to attach from below to your name.

 

[WDW1974]

People already have flocked offsite, which is why Disney's occupancy rate is the lowest since 2004 when they had a lot few DVC rooms artificially inflating the occupancy rate.

In the hotel industry, WDW's occupancy rate used to be stellar. Now it's just about average.

Anyone running a successful business who would settle for average industry performance should be slapped silly.

Disney needs to devise a strategy that not only increases occupancy but improves it to such an extent that they need to build more hotels.

We talk about Disney coasting, living off nostalgia and past glory at the theme parks. Well, they are doing the same at their hotels as well. Disney leadership needs to get hungry, not greedy.

I'm still amazed at their numbers.

Only Disney could get people to pay $300-900 a night for standard hotel (and motel) rooms in freaking Orlando.

When I see someone paying $299 for a discounted room at the BC or $500 for a non-discounted room at the Poly, I think there's someone with too much money and too little brainpower.

But I guess you can't put a price on the Disney MAGIC, right?

 

[MMDVC]

Obviously the designers and decision makers do not really enter the theme parks. They have no idea of the concrete jungle they are creating. They def have not entered one of the fancy bathrooms during the heat of the day... especially the Women's: with soiled diapers and female products cooking in the trash cans. Quite the magical experience.

 

[WDW1974]

The thing is that TDA is perfectly fine with turning business away at this point. They recognize they are already at the saturation point for what DLR can handle and keep guest satisfaction high. This is evidenced by them stopping sales on the select annual passes, participation in the CitiPass (tickets to Universal and SeaWorld), and by them limiting the number of consecutive days that can be purchased. These are all indicators of a message of "we've got all the business we can handle, take your money elsewhere".

Anaheim's issues are completely different from Orlando. Anaheim's problem isn't capacity from an attraction perspective, it's that they don't have enough of a geographical footprint to put more people into the tight confines of Disneyland park. Gridlock on the park's pathways lead to decline in guest satisfacton.

This is the exact opposite of what is going on in Orlando. Orlando's "blessing of size" is currently our curse. The parks can physically cram in more guests, the issue is what to do with them while they are there. There isn't enough attraction capacity. To offset that lack of capacity and provide a way to mitigate guest satisfaction, TDO came up with the nightmare that is MM+. In their eyes, virtual time management was a better (translate that into cheaper) solution than building more infrastructure (rides and attractions).

I'm sure there will come a point where Anaheim will be concerned about taking back days from their competitors; but, that will likely happen when expansion comes and that day will be a good one for all fans of DisneyParks. For now, all TDA needs to do is keep the locals happy - which means keeping the parks fun. If they have to upset some by taking away some of the cheaper annual passes to keep them out of the parks, so be it.

Not completely accurate with respect to Anaheim. They are looking to build the business there and ADD bodies to the parks. DCA, especially, can handle millions more visitors annually. And DL with expansion can as well.

What TDA is desperate to do is change the visitorship patterns of local APers who use the place as a mall. To be fair, WDW Lifestylers do too, but they generally spread out more and WDW has acres and acres and acres and acres of paved parking. TDA doesn't want Friday nights and all day Sunday to be insane with traffic nightmares as well. They don't want a Sunday in October to be busier than a Saturday in June. That's what's behind the suspension of all new (they will renew anyone) SoCal annuals. They simply want to change the way the locals use the parks (misuse might be the accurate term).

WDW is playing this game in other ways. They want to discourage park-hopping. They know MK is bursting at the seams and they don't want to add real expansions and people-eaters. So, they think the answer is better spreading of the crowds (so they'll use FP+ to greatly increase waits at attractions where they never were much of an issue from small attractions like the Tea Cups to major ones like Pirates and Mansion) and trying to push the crowds to Disney's other three gates, which also can handle millions more guests annually.

I like what TDA is doing much more than what TDO is.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The offsite hotels have been raising their rates at a pretty high speed. Well maybe not the rates but the fees OMG the fees.

As I said in another thread, the average in Orlando for a 3-star appears to be around $100/night, but that is a base that does not include any of the fees they can think of slapping on top of that. Parking, internet, fitness centre, "resort fees" (everyone's favourite). UNI's hotels are guilty of this too, as are any convention properties since they know a large number of clients will not be paying anything close to rack rate, but at least they have the real perk of Express and you can find good deals during the off-season.

I still think $150/night for a WDW moderate is too much though, even including the airport transfers (probably the best on-site perk at the moment).

 

[Magenta Panther]

The best news I can give is that it won't be Wishes in a few years!

But the sickening slaughter of trees and turning the MK PARK into a hot as hell concrete jungle really doesn't get enough ripping in fan circles.

Six Flags Over Georgia is also beautiful in that way. It's like the park was built around the existing trees in that area. Really lovely park.

 

[WDW1974]

It has been brought up many times on these boards that it isn't really a serious event. Of course, it isn't it's Disney for goodness sake.

You are wrong about this point. Plain and simple. There may be fun 5K, but there's no such thing as fun half-marathon or marathon. And there are thousands of serious runners that take part in these events annually. They don't do it just to take a selfie with Goofy at Mile 6.

I know you view this (wrongly) as an attack on fatties. That isn't true. What you push is an attack on serious runners and safety.

 

[WDW1974]

Hello all. I know I've been quiet but I've been extremely busy with Diagon. Looking forward to the next project to fight the battle again.

Now, c'mon. I am not giving you a like just for showing up!!!

Even I don't get 56 likes for just showing up and saying 'How are YOU doin?''

 

[WDW1974]

There are local level races all over the place and aren't fleecing you like a Disney race does. It's clear you've clueless in this and just want to advocate for something without any knowledge of the situation... or apparently any clue what motivates recreational runners. It's not about competing like world class runners and you've no idea what burdens this mash up causes.

This is like arguing with a wall. I've been down the road on this subject with him numerous times and he just doesn't understand or won't accept reality. He thinks we all (especially FAT me) hates fatties.

 

[Nubs70]

Try looking at any big race... they are all like this.. it's part of the run. It often takes MILES for the pack to thin out. But that's why runners want to minimize this, not say 'well she tried!' as they get tripped or turn an ankle dodging people at mile 7, 8, 12, 15, 20, etc. When people are in the right corrals, it thins out as the faster ones pull away and some slow down. When the corrals are not regulated well, you have faster people running into slower people all the time.. or worse.. people trying to run around walkers.

Real road races also incorporate rabbits in the lead corrals. Rabbits are runners who set the initial brisk pace. This helps to stretch out the field from the beginning. Once the field is sufficiently stretched, the rabbit drops out. Rabbits never intend to finish the race.

 

[WDW1974]

Is the OP sure about that Heat 3 peat??

After last night?!??!

No, I am not. They look tired, spent and like they are playing a half step behind.

 

[WDW1974]

Sad to hear that about Kong, will there be no AA's at all? And Damn Disney for still going forward with Frozen in Norway, it just doesn't make sense how stupid they are. Man am I going to miss that ride

I didn't say that. I said that Kong will be heavily screen-based. That doesn't really thrill me .

 

[Funmeister]

@WDW1974 - Think LeBron is LeGone?

 

[WDW1974]

spirit anything about the Idol show closing Jan 4th thread? or cant really elaborate yet

I posted in that thread. But not at all surprised. And don't read too much into it, although, eventually, the building will be repurposed with Star Wars.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Oh, it is. But I think it is far more of an issue for business travelers than it is for leisure ones. I think the average O-Town hotel rate has been between $100-120 for the better part of the last decade (@ParentsOf4 likely has the exact figures and the pie charts to go along with them!.

Since you asked ...

Offsite rates in Lake Buena Vista have been climbing in recent years. The local competition has been taking advantage of Disney's price increases to follow-up with price increases of their own, which probably helped
WDW's occupancy rate last quarter.

Excluding WDW, the average rate of the Metro Orlando area was about $102/night last year. It was highest in the Lake Buena Vista area (i.e. Disney's backyard), where the rate jumped almost 9% to about $113/night.

International Drive experienced a much more modest 2.6% increase, to about $112/night.

You still can get a cheap hotel along Route 192, where the rate averaged about $70/night.

When you look at these prices, the Port Orleans Riverside rate of $196/night (excluding tax) this summer is excessive.

Disney's Grand Floridian will set you back $627/night this summer.

What's really scary is Revenue Per Available Room (RevPAR). (RevPAR takes into account average daily rate and occupancy rate.)

In 2013, the Metro Orlando area (excluding WDW) RevPAR was $72.

WDW averaged over $200!

Disney's hotels are cash cows.

Corporate Disney really should stop with the DVCs and start looking for ways to grow their hotel business. They already have nearly 24,000 non-DVC hotel rooms. Let's see them come up with a strategy to grow that to 30,000. (Oh, and actually fill them. )

Universal has a plan for more hotels. Let's see if Disney will set aside its ego and recognize that Universal has the right idea.

Build more at the theme parks and more paying customers will want to stay onsite!

It's a strategy that worked at WDW in the 1980s and 1990s. If done right, it can work again.

When it comes to WDW, corporate Disney needs to get out of the post-9/11 mentality that it's been operating in for nearly 13 years.

 

[WDW1974]

It's interesting that studios have made May-June 2016 so jam packed, when really any release date nowadays can net a high grossing film.

May 6th, 2016 - Captain America 3 and Batman v. Superman
May 27th, 2016 - X-Men: Apocalypse and Alice in Wonderland 2
June 10th, 2016 - The Amazing Spider-Man 3
June 17th, 2016 - Finding Dory and How to Train Your Dragon 3

Seems like they are doing themselves a disservice by opening up so close together. Perhaps an attempt to bring the Summer Movie Season back?

Note: I expect (hope?) that studios will eventually move some of these release dates. Especially May 6th. I just can't see Warner Bros risking their biggest comic-book film to date.

I just don't get it ... much like the whole tent pole strategy of Disney (and others).

Summer movie season now is like April, May and June.

Studios release films in July and August now that they have lower expectations for. Largely, they don't release blockbusters in what is really summer. Spring is the new Hollywood summer. Hell, won't Cap America 2 be out on DVD by August (only half-kidding as Iger would love that type of release deal)?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Hell, won't Cap America 2 be out on DVD by August (only half-kidding as Iger would love that type of release deal)?

September 9th

 

[WDW1974]

Certain Spirit,

It is all due to the Netflix and The Sopranos. Which is free now on Amazon Prime. The streaming revolution is here.

Um ... huh? ... Ahm ... Sopranos has been done for what 3-4 years now? What are you talking about?

PS- Your father must be in Pigeon Forge. They have to card everyone.

Nope. ALthough I think he'd like it there.

PSS- I just wanted to make one contribution to your thread because it is kinda sad it is Friday and you are here. I guess I am getting soft in my advanced years. Plus the Heat lost.

That was mighty thoughtful of you. ... Yes, I suppose it is. But I've already spent over two months of the year away from South Florida, and sometimes you need to be home and boring on a rainy, ugly night.

I've thought you were soft since I joined the site, if that makes you feel better!

OK, gotta go, the valet needs me out of the car and I am running late. Cheerio.

Are you trying to sleep in a stranger's car again?