The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I don't always get my point across correctly, so... This thread is discussing the business model for TWDC in general for its P&R. I was saying that because my waitlist of 6 months didn't come through, the company let a customer walk away. They in no way tried, at all, to ensure I would pay to get into the theme parks, and hopefully spend more money in them.
There should be something in place that sees that a guest does not walk away from spending money. I didn't mean to infer that it was DVC's responsibility to do so. I am annoyed that I got no email saying my waitlist didn't come through though. DVC member services should have handed off my failed request to marketing, or whatever other department within the company. I mean, isn't it obvious that I wanted to spend money at Disney? I waitlisted 6 months out for a date I knew I could make. So, all the plans for those dates have changed, and Disney is not included in my plan B. They let a guest go elsewhere for a 3 night stay.

This has been something I have mentioned to friends at the company for years. Disney makes it tough, often, to actually give them your money.

I recently renewed my AP for the 34th straight year and the process I had to go through because their damn MDE site simply doesn't work often was quite ridiculous and took about an hour of time, three CMs in three different departments and me screwing around online. That just is sorta insane. (which I likely am since I could just not buy the damn thing and have friends walk me in for free).
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The merchandise is indeed a problem. Last year, a friend visited me and couldn't find anything to spend $$$ on. She brought about $300 for souvenirs and purchased a single t-shirt.

Most mugs aren't dishwasher safe. Pins and Vinylmation appeal to a certain demographic. Nearly all collectibles are also available online or at a Hallmark store. Most t-shirts are insanely overpriced, and the average consumer knows enough about quality to realize it's just a Hanes Beefy Tee. Between the prices and the variety, Disney needs to get its merch act together.

I can't quite comprehend why/how Disney gets people to buy mugs and dishware that you can't stick in a dishwasher or microwave. This isn't 1984. C'mon. Get with it.

***Stop reading here if you love the new Co-Op at TSFKaDD***

And seriously, fanbois, why are you getting all hot and bothered by the merchandise at TSFKaTM? Most of it isn't WDW specific. Most of it has been on sale for months in Anaheim because it was made as generic 'specialized' stuff that has both DLR and WDW art/logos/themes on it so they can sell it at both resorts. Except for some items that are badly out of place ... like Orange Bird in Anaheim.

I don't want a glass that has the DLRR on one side and BTMRR at WDW on the other. I don't want DISNEY PARKS merchandise. I want DL stuff ... and EPCOT stuff ... and DCA stuff etc.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yes, it is a great new International terminal. I have only flown out of it once, on Norwegian Air. I generally use Air New Zealand for flights to Europe on their excellent 777 non-stops to London from LAX (Fabulous Kiwi service in very mod planes, and great food and wine). But the bad part is Air New Zealand flies out of crummy Terminal 2 along with Virgin Atlantic, Avianca, V Australia, and a few other international carriers that don't use A380's and thus aren't in the International Terminal. Most of the LAX International Terminal airlines are flying A380's into LAX or have committed to by 2016; Air France, British Airways, Korean Air, Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa, Singapore Air, Malaysia Airlines, Thai Airways, China Southern, and Qantas. LAX is busy with A380's, and that new terminal is a Godsend for them.

LAX is trying to clean itself up, I get it. They are spending a couple Billion dollars on fixing LAX from now through 2017, and I wish them all the luck in the world. They need it.

But if you can use John Wayne or Long Beach for your Disneyland visit, those are much closer and much easier airports to use. Especially for domestic tourists flying within the USA.

LAX apologist here, but it is truly improving and it isn't the nightmare that many east coasters (and SoCal snobs!) view it as.

When John Wayne offers me the same variety of flights and aircraft and opportunities to fly upfront at the same price points and also offers me the lower rates on rental cars that I get at LAX, then I'll use it more often. Or maybe just after I marry a Laguna Niguel Sugar Mama!!!:devilish::greedy::D
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
This has been something I have mentioned to friends at the company for years. Disney makes it tough, often, to actually give them your money.

I recently renewed my AP for the 34th straight year and the process I had to go through because their damn MDE site simply doesn't work often was quite ridiculous and took about an hour of time, three CMs in three different departments and me screwing around online. That just is sorta insane. (which I likely am since I could just not buy the damn thing and have friends walk me in for free).
Charter passholder is the highest level lifestyler badge one can earn!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
There are a surprisingly large number of guests who buy one-day tickets at the gate.

My favorite personal story happened a few years ago when I was staying at the Dolphin. I struck up a conversion with another family at the pool and we happened to get onto the subject of tickets. They explained to me that they were buying one-day tickets every day. I repeatedly tried to explain to them that they were paying far more than if they simply bought a multi-day ticket but, no matter what a said, they were convinced that buying one-day tickets every day was less expensive. o_O

Whether a single day, multiday, or annual pass, ticket price trends are consistent across the decades. Ever since the late 1990s, ticket prices have exploded. I tend to graph one-day tickets because that's the only ticket type that has existed for the entire history of WDW without significant changes in benefits.

Even a one day ticket is slightly confusing because WDW used to sell admission and rides separately. For example, in 1971, park admission cost $3.50 while a 12-ride Adventure Book (the most that WDW offered) cost $5.85. I've compensated for this by adding the two together in the graph. (Note that some attractions were included in the price of admission.)

The one radical departure in ticket pricing occurred at the very end of Eisner's tenure, when P&R was desperately trying to recover from a post-9/11 economy.

The Magic Your Way (MYW) ticket was introduced in 2005, offering a la cart pricing. Prior to that, WDW tickets tended to be all-inclusive. Most automatically included the 'park hopping' and 'water parks & more' options. Many also automatically included the 'no expiration' option.

The MYW offered a no-frills option: entry into one theme park per day at a significantly reduced price. It offered a low-cost option for visiting a WDW theme park and, not surprisingly, business improved after that.

The irony is that comparable all-inclusive tickets leaped in price that year. However, since most did not care about the 'no expiration' option while many others were willing to forgo the 'park hopping' and 'water parks & more' options, the price of a WDW vacation dropped for many. Furthermore, to encourage more visits, Disney practically gave away tickets after 4 days. (Only $4/day more for tickets longer than 4 days.)

With guests paying less for tickets, and much less for longer length tickets, guests were able to spend more on hotels. Along with the introduction of Disney's Magical Express (DME) in 2005, WDW's hotel occupancy leaped upward.

What Disney did in 2005 was make the total price of a WDW vacation less expensive by offering lower ticket prices and free airport transportation. By doing so, Disney was able to capture a larger share of vacation dollars because guests were less likely to rent cars and stay offsite.

The goal was not to squeeze every penny out of guests. It was to provide a more affordable, more convenient, longer stay vacation package that allowed WDW to ultimately capture a larger share of the market. MYW and DME gave paying customers real reasons to book longer onsite stays at WDW.

Ultimately, it produced a boom in WDW business that lasted until "The Great Recession".

In 2011, 2012, and 2013, the goal has been very different. It's been to squeeze every last penny out of guests. MyMagic+ along with its MagicBand gimmick simply reflects more of that same thinking.

Squeezing pennies out of paying customers is not the way to grow a business. Corporate Disney needs to be more creative, like they were in 2005.

MYW is what we call Georgie K's Golden Ticket to the Bigtime.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
When we were then in March, knowing full well we likely won't return anytime soon, we easily spent $300 in Epcot (all Epcot branded items) and another $200 for generic Walt Disney World merchandise. I mean 4 sweatshirts alone between my wife and I were probably over $200. That being said, as a Disneyland local, I probably haven't spent $200 in total on merch over the past 5 years. We got caught up in the WDW moment...just like Disney wanted us to.

HINT: If you really need to buy WDW BRANDED merchandise, then I'd strongly suggest a drive two miles off property to the Lake Buena Vista Premium Outlets and WDW's Character Premiere outlet store (there are other nice stores, but we're talking Disney now). I NEVER buy a damn thing in the actual parks without a CM and their 35% (sometimes up to 50% at holidays) discount close by. Period. If I don't have a friend around, then it is outlet shopping all the way.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
I can't quite comprehend why/how Disney gets people to buy mugs and dishware that you can't stick in a dishwasher or microwave. This isn't 1984. C'mon. Get with it.

***Stop reading here if you love the new Co-Op at TSFKaDD***

And seriously, fanbois, why are you getting all hot and bothered by the merchandise at TSFKaTM? Most of it isn't WDW specific. Most of it has been on sale for months in Anaheim because it was made as generic 'specialized' stuff that has both DLR and WDW art/logos/themes on it so they can sell it at both resorts. Except for some items that are badly out of place ... like Orange Bird in Anaheim.

I don't want a glass that has the DLRR on one side and BTMRR at WDW on the other. I don't want DISNEY PARKS merchandise. I want DL stuff ... and EPCOT stuff ... and DCA stuff etc.
The DISNEY PARKS thing is pretty annoying. Why is Disneyland Resort even mentioned on the tag area of a shirt celebrating Walt Disney World's 40th? Just really weird.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I absolutely agree about merchandise. Terrible selection, and vastly overpriced. I was interested in some of the HM merch, but really, it's just too expensive. I also agree that many are looking for resort specific merchandise and there just really isn't any. They don't seem to have a clue in terms of merchandise. They're getting better because they realize nostalgia sells so that's why we're getting ride specific shirts and some merchandise. I was also vastly disappointed in the Tower of Terror merchandise. I'm willing to spend a bit of money but it's either too generic or too overpriced. I only bought a Heroes and Villains shirt on the 24 hour day because I was lucky enough to be gifted a gift card. It was $30. For a Hanes shirt. Granted, it DOES glow in the dark, but really? $30 for a shirt?

I have a $1500 dancer statue/figurine from the Tower Shop at DCA on my coffee table. Classy, Artsy and nothing that says Disney because while it fit the location it was sold at, it wasn't Disney BRANDED.

And if I wanted Hanes tees, I could go to Target. I don't.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Hey @WDW1974

When you were talking about the renaissance Knott's is currently going through. I found the same on a recent trip to Kings Island outside of Cincinnati. It had gone through some pretty dark times under Paramount, with concrete and generic show buildings added in various places, plus a lack of upkeep and maintenance.

When CedarFair took over, they began a phase by phase lift of the park. Fixing up and refurbishing opening day attractions, as well maintaing the main mall and hub around the Eiffel Tower, which I might add, has "hub trees" that make the eiffel tower appear taller and farther away, as well as an assortment of flowers, shrubs, and topiaries.

CedarFair has also added some new rides, and brand new roller coaster complete with themed queue and building, plus it's landscaped.

I saw cast members maintaining the queues, and cleaning up spills and messes left by guests within minutes after they happened (By messes I mean they spilled food!)

It was a nice reprieve from going to WDW (after all I chose not to renew my AP at the end of 2011 and got an AP to Disneyland Paris instead).

It was especially nice seeing their interest in maintaining their classic attractions, as well a theme park that actually has greenery and hub trees in it...you know Magic Kingdom up until 2003.

That's good to hear. Matt certainly knows what he is doing (just see DCL and DLR for past examples) and while Cedar is a different animal to some degree, quality will always result in $$$. Knott's has turned around night and day in the last three years and I think Disney fans are going to be surprised and happy by the direction of the next attraction coming to Buena Park.

I got to talk with Raffi Kaprelyan, the GM of Knott's last month, and to see his dedication and respect for the history of the place is very reassuring about the future. The man is passionate about the guest experience and the park's incredible history.

BTW, today was reopening of the classic Calico Mine Train ride and here is a review:

http://www.latimes.com/travel/theme...rry-farm-calico-mine-ride-20140611-story.html

Anyway, to be fair, Paramount never knew what it wanted to do when it owned the parks. And when Viacom swallowed Paramount, they had no desire to operate theme parks whatsoever (any news on that on again, off again licensed park for Spain? how about the one for the UK?) and I'm sure that showed. I do know that King's Dominion was my second favorite childhood theme park behind MK. I recall lots of trees, greenery, fountains etc there as well. I haven't been back since the 1980s, but hope to at some point.

It's funny how many Disney fanbois will look down their noses at parks like these. But sadly it isn't the 1980s and that arrogance is very misplaced. Disney could learn a thing or two from the smaller, regional operators.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Nope.

Unaffordable is when fewer people can afford them and when you have to go outside your traditional markets because you have reached a point of diminishing returns with those 'chronics' ... unaffordable is also when those 'chronics' (I was for decades) visit, but instead of spending $5,000 in a week on your business, spend $500 (that's also now me).

The parks have never been empty due to prices, no matter how crazy or unreasonable they become. The parks only empty in times of global crisis be it the Arab energy embargo of the 70s, the recession of the Carter years, the recession under Bush The Elder and the first Gulf War in 1990-91, the 9/11 attacks and their aftermath, the years that followed the 2007-08 economic collapse.

I really can't imagine a scenario where WDW or UNI or any major operator has empty parks based on prices charged.
Sorry, but that is not the meaning of unaffordable unless you break it down to certain segments of society. If you do that then, to many people Disney has always been "unaffordable". Change in direction, yes! Change in consumer spending, yes! Change in consumer outlook, yes! But, who is to say that those that are currently spending their money there are any different then those that did before them.

I'm not sure I understand your post. Because on one hand you ARE saying it has gotten unaffordable then in the last sentence you are saying that the price charged makes no difference. I believe that is what I said about admission prices, which is what everyone has been getting their knickers in a knot over. It isn't a problem with the admission price, although many of us would like to see it lower, it is what they charge for every other damn thing in the resort that is becoming, and in many cases have already reached, unaffordable.

I believe that one of your favorite expressions is..."they are bending over to pick up a penny, while dollars are flying over their heads". That is the same thing with the argument that the ticket prices are out of line with everything and how it has so vastly outpaced inflation, when it is of no consequence at all. It's the rest of the stuff that is altering the plans of people. It's not even the idea that they are not building new stuff, it's that even if they did, it is getting to the point that the only way they can go there and not end up in the poor house is to bypass all of Disney's big money makers... hotels, meals and treasured trinkets. If they added six more gates, that would not change anything. It is still to expensive to stay there for most people, however, a visit is still doable if offsite works in the scenario. With all that they have spent on Magic Express to keep people onsite, you would think that someone would be smart enough to realize that first they have to be able to afford to stay onsite before you can keep them there.
 
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WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The Avengers happened.

I think that's very simplistic. You have to have a desire ... an interest ... just to go see a film. The No. 1 film at the box office last weekend was co-penned by a good friend's nephew (Michael Weber of 500 Days of Summer fame). But I am not a 19-year-old female and the whole idea of a love story involving young people with cancer just isn't what I go to the movies to escape into. I want to escape from things (today that would be school shootings, Iraq coming apart, sharia law etc) I want something that transports me and entertains me, much like theme parks.

I am not sure I would have ever seen The Avengers, let alone in a theater, except that it was an 86 degree day in Germany and they are not big on AC over there!
 
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WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Charter passholder is the highest level lifestyler badge one can earn!

Nah! (although I have a family member who agrees with you!)

I tend to view the Four Corners crowd that could barely afford minimum credit card payments a few years ago, but suddenly has the money to pay $1,029 for Premier APs as the great badge.

Of course, in addition to my WDW AP, I have held APs for all other Disney resorts worldwide (except TDR) at various points.

But I have always considered myself Fan Royalty, myself!
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
One way of being weak to me as a Lifestyler is never visiting UNI/IOA, SW/AQ/DC, BGT etc while crowing about how MAGICal WDW still is. It's a simple as that. You lose respect in my eyes when you chose to ignore the other top products in themed entertainment because you are in love with a BRAND. ... It's sorta like being in love with a phony voice from your iPhone ... didn't they make a movie about that?
That is bad logic. It's like saying that a person has to buy a Toyota in order to talk about how much he likes his Honda.
 

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