The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[michael.fumc]

Within the last 10-to-15 years, U.S. median household income has lagged far behind WDW price increases. Each year, a shrinking percentage of Americans can afford a WDW vacation.

As I've posted before:

View attachment 56179


In recent years, WDW's attendance gains primarily are from Brazil and Argentina. Visitors from those South American countries have median incomes of over $100K, placing them in the top 5% incomes of their respective countries.

I stand by my statement that WDW has never been so unaffordable.

One day ticket has really gone up, but I wonder how many people who enter the park only have a day ticket. Disney seems to want you to spend several days in all the parks, tickets price go down to $60 at 5 days and all the way down to $35 per ticket at ten days. I still believe the one day tickets seem high, but are really in line with other parks in my opinion, however I think the goal of WDW resort and parks are Not to be just something you do when you are on vacation, they want to be your vacation

 

[NearTheEars]

Nothing, and let me emphasis this, NOTHING would ever stop me from having a Mickey Bar even if the lines stretched all the way to Myrtle Beach.

Is is blasphemous that I prefer the ice cream sandwhich? I mean, it's still mickey shaped and all.

 

[Cesar R M]

I don't often agree with you, but I do in this case. What is shown in the video is not what I was expecting, doesn't "feel" like you are looking out a window. Maybe the effect works better in person. The rest of the train looks perfect.

[Edit] Now that I look at it closer, it appear that the window extend up beyond the top of what we are seeing, that might help make it more convincing.

let's not forget that videotapping a screen will never look good.. (flicker.. difference in frequency rates and fps, viewing angle..etc..)

queing through the gift shop you say?

has potential

also they could have carts of food and drinks for when the lines are really long.

 

[bhg469]

One day ticket has really gone up, but I wonder how many people who enter the park only have a day ticket. Disney seems to want you to spend several days in all the parks, tickets price go down to $60 at 5 days and all the way down to $35 per ticket at ten days. I still believe the one day tickets seem high, but are really in line with other parks in my opinion, however I think the goal of WDW resort and parks are Not to be just something you do when you are on vacation, they want to be your vacation

I bought one, because 2 days would have been a waste of time and money, 3 days would be worse.

 

[Cesar R M]

One day ticket has really gone up, but I wonder how many people who enter the park only have a day ticket. Disney seems to want you to spend several days in all the parks, tickets price go down to $60 at 5 days and all the way down to $35 per ticket at ten days. I still believe the one day tickets seem high, but are really in line with other parks in my opinion, however I think the goal of WDW resort and parks are Not to be just something you do when you are on vacation, they want to be your vacation

I honestly dont think the park prices are the problem. the hotel prices are the issue (in the WDW bubble I mean)

I really think they try to squeeze the clients so much in the hotels and food offerings and then wonder why people are not buying their merchandise as much as before.

 

[bhg469]

let's not forget that videotapping a screen will never look good.. (flicker.. difference in frequency rates and fps, viewing angle..etc..)


also they could have carts of food and drinks for when the lines are really long.

Very true, look at the pictures and videos of the new dwarf AAs. The faces look terrible in photos.

 

[Cesar R M]

Very true, look at the pictures and videos of the new dwarf AAs. The faces look terrible in photos.

some of them indeed do, I actually found 2 of them kinda believable.
also the entrance looks really good (with the giant chandeliers )

 

[bhg469]

I honestly dont think the park prices are the problem. the hotel prices are the issue (in the WDW bubble I mean)

I really think they try to squeeze the clients so much in the hotels and food offerings and then wonder why people are not buying their merchandise as much as before.

Exactly, the ticket price is pretty much on par with the amount of attractions at your disposal, the hopper I mean. If you spend 100 on juat MK you're insane.

The hotel rooms are laughable in price. They are eventually going to have to fix the problem because no moderate is worth 200 a night.

 

[tirian]

I honestly dont think the park prices are the problem. the hotel prices are the issue (in the WDW bubble I mean)

I really think they try to squeeze the clients so much in the hotels and food offerings and then wonder why people are not buying their merchandise as much as before.

The merchandise is indeed a problem. Last year, a friend visited me and couldn't find anything to spend $$$ on. She brought about $300 for souvenirs and purchased a single t-shirt.

Most mugs aren't dishwasher safe. Pins and Vinylmation appeal to a certain demographic. Nearly all collectibles are also available online or at a Hallmark store. Most t-shirts are insanely overpriced, and the average consumer knows enough about quality to realize it's just a Hanes Beefy Tee. Between the prices and the variety, Disney needs to get its merch act together.

 

[Next Big Thing]

if both Universal parks go above 10 million a year, what will the parking situation be like??

Thats a fantastic question.

The garages at Universal were originally built to be able to added levels later on if needed, so I assume they would go up.

Although the parking problems would only be amplified if rumors that parking for Uni's new water park will be in the garages (and bussed over) as well.

 

[Nubs70]

Within the last 10-to-15 years, U.S. median household income has lagged far behind WDW price increases. Each year, a shrinking percentage of Americans can afford a WDW vacation.

As I've posted before:

View attachment 56179


In recent years, WDW's attendance gains primarily are from Brazil and Argentina. Visitors from those South American countries have median incomes of over $100K, placing them in the top 5% incomes of their respective countries.

I stand by my statement that WDW has never been so unaffordable.

Do you have a graph comparing ticket price to current method CPI? And former method CPI prior to the substitution effect?

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I agree with @ParentsOf4 post.

In '09 my family saved for 5 months to take a 6 day trip to WDW . Our trip in '12 took about 9 months to save enough. Same days, same resort, same everything. Looking at a trip for next fall ('15) and we think we need to start now for that September trip.

Our household income has increased every year in this true example. The problem is that those increased dollars don't go as far as they did. Disney's price increases don't help, but are not the total problem.

Come to DLR instead, we'll treat ya right!

 

[ScoutN]

Within the last 10-to-15 years, U.S. median household income has lagged far behind WDW price increases. Each year, a shrinking percentage of Americans can afford a WDW vacation.

As I've posted before:

View attachment 56179


In recent years, WDW's attendance gains primarily are from Brazil and Argentina. Visitors from those South American countries have median incomes of over $100K, placing them in the top 5% incomes of their respective countries.

I stand by my statement that WDW has never been so unaffordable.

Booking trips via credit card and paying for it over 24 months does not make a place affordable, either. Take a trip to any high status region in the country and you see the lifestyle of fancy and expensive everywhere within them. Many of which are mortgaged through their nose and living that life via credit cards.

 

[5thGenTexan]

Another fantastic post, Parentsof4.

I carved out the points above that I'd like to address. DME was an incredible idea- get people from airport to hotel room and lock 'em in it. It works! It works BRILLANTLY. Probably better than they thought it would. It has allowed fresh out of high school, fresh out of college students to celebrate at WDW without worrying about having someone 25 or older (in my state, at least, the minimum age is 25) present to sign for and rent a car. It's allowed families who don't want to drive, or are afraid of driving in a 'foreign' city, a chance of getting directly from airport, to hotel. Once you're dumped off at the hotel, Disney got you. Everything from that point on you're buying off of them, unless you're one of those smart folks who orders from local grocery stores and has delivered, which to be honest, not many people are aware that you can do that. When your trip is done, Disney hauls you and your bags back to the airport and dumps you off once again.

The 'not dealing with luggage' is also a huge, HUGE turn on for people. Disney hit it out of the park with DME. I could see how that alone would increase revenue in just about every part of the business.

HOWEVER... not doing much since then to boost sales besides gimmicks and "gotchas" is not a healthy way to keep such a massive business model afloat. It's twofold:

- It has become more affordable to rent a car, stay offsite, and eat offsite than it has been to use DME and eat/sleep onsite

-Other Orlando theme parks are doing a solid job of upkeep and adding new and exciting things to their parks, swaying those who would stay exclusively on Disney property to venture out. Even if these folks still stay onsite, they are renting a car, and thus spending dollars elsewhere.


Disney isn't getting the full pie anymore, they're getting a piece or two.


Just my two cents, but I thank you again for your insightful post.

Ok, I am kinda simple. So lay it out straight for me.

Why does TWDC do what they do? Or is it a matter of why the folks in Florida do what they do?

I admit that I don't get the hierarchy at Disney. I do not get WHY there is a varying degree of value and service among the divsions in the Disney company.

Why is the perceived value higher to many on a DCL ship than it is going to WDW?

Is raising prices and delivering less a theme park trend that the big wigs learn at Theme Park Big Wig Camp????

I know Six Flags is looked down upon by many here, but I grew up in the Dallas / Fort Worth area and made many trips to Six Flags Over Texas. It was the original. It was built by Angus Wynne after a trip to Disneyland. SFOT had themed lands from the beginning. Texas - France - Spain - Mexico - Confederacy -USA. The park used to be kept spotless. Over the past 20 - 25 years many of the attractions that made SFOT special have been removed and replaced by puke up your guts coasters. They don't pay attention to the landscaping like they used to. The park is not kept as clean as it used to be. For all that, the keep raising the price.

I see the parallels... So I just assume there is a concerted effort to see how much they can milk out of the theme park consumer.

 

[Omnispace]

Ok, I am kinda simple. So lay it out straight for me.

Why does TWDC do what they do? Or is it a matter of why the folks in Florida do what they do?

I admit that I don't get the hierarchy at Disney. I do not get WHY there is a varying degree of value and service among the divsions in the Disney company.

Why is the perceived value higher to many on a DCL ship than it is going to WDW?

Is raising prices and delivering less a theme park trend that the big wigs learn at Theme Park Big Wig Camp????

I know Six Flags is looked down upon by many here, but I grew up in the Dallas / Fort Worth area and made many trips to Six Flags Over Texas. It was the original. It was built by Angus Wynne after a trip to Disneyland. SFOT had themed lands from the beginning. Texas - France - Spain - Mexico - Confederacy -USA. The park used to be kept spotless. Over the past 20 - 25 years many of the attractions that made SFOT special have been removed and replaced by puke up your guts coasters. They don't pay attention to the landscaping like they used to. The park is not kept as clean as it used to be. For all that, the keep raising the price.

I see the parallels... So I just assume there is a concerted effort to see how much they can milk out of the theme park consumer.

You made me curious about Cedar Fair. Not exactly my favorite out there since they are not high on the historic sensitivity scale. Even friends I know who have visited Cedar Point for many many years say that they basically forgot about their traditional family-based guests in favor of the extreme coaster crowd. But anyway, a good article about Cedar Fair for comparison to @ParentsOf4 's numbers on Disney.

CF says they are a "regional amusement park" so it's not an exact comparison but it's interesting to see how Matt Ouimet has been doing -- actually pretty good. One point the article seems to make is the parks raise prices similar to other markets -- once one of them raises prices they all take advantage of it. But CF seems to be focusing on more than just raising prices. Promising quote by Mr Ouimet: "I want to make sure everyone who leaves the gate thinks they got a good value for their price."

To The Article>>>>
_

 

[Longhairbear]

Sorry if I am not following. Are you just suggesting that DVC should contact you proactively to suggest other options if your waitlist doesn't go through? If so, I couldn't disagree anymore. I do not want my maintenace fees to staff a large group of people who just have daily waitlists where they call everyone based on an assumption on when they want to give up on the waitlist and say at 90 days out, become travel agents for you. What about those that want to wait until 60 days out, what about if they leave you a voice mail and say X is available but by the time you contact them, X is no longer available. All the tools are available to you to decide when you plan to give up on your waitlist and check for alternatives. Being POed that our maintenance fees don't go to convoluted travel agent attempts is misguided.

If my assumptions were wrong...sorry.

I don't always get my point across correctly, so... This thread is discussing the business model for TWDC in general for its P&R. I was saying that because my waitlist of 6 months didn't come through, the company let a customer walk away. They in no way tried, at all, to ensure I would pay to get into the theme parks, and hopefully spend more money in them.
There should be something in place that sees that a guest does not walk away from spending money. I didn't mean to infer that it was DVC's responsibility to do so. I am annoyed that I got no email saying my waitlist didn't come through though. DVC member services should have handed off my failed request to marketing, or whatever other department within the company. I mean, isn't it obvious that I wanted to spend money at Disney? I waitlisted 6 months out for a date I knew I could make. So, all the plans for those dates have changed, and Disney is not included in my plan B. They let a guest go elsewhere for a 3 night stay.

 

[Crafty]

Nothing, and let me emphasis this, NOTHING would ever stop me from having a Mickey Bar even if the lines stretched all the way to Myrtle Beach.

Are you sure you don't mean Dole Whip?

 

[Crafty]

I don't for a minute dispute all that you said in that post. I'm positive that all of it is true. The problem I have is that in spite of the highlighted line, there are more people going to WDW then ever before. In my mind that makes that statement incorrect. It may be expensive, it may be what many feel is out of line, but, it has not, in any form, made it unaffordable. It's just a bigger piece of our collective income. Unaffordable is when the parks are empty. That may happen before too long, but, it hasn't happened yet.

I dunno about that. Instead of going every year, people may be cutting back to every two or three years.

A good deal of people are the one-and-done rs because a return trip is too expensive and the cards are maxed out.

There's a solid chance people are going now because they realize it'll be too expensive later, you know, seize the day and all.

I understand the parks are more crowded now but disney is indeed pricing out the low-middle middle-middle and middle-upper classes (If you believe such things exist, but that's for another thread) in an attempt to see "what the market will bear".

We just got back from a trip to Disney, and on this trip we spent the way we always have. However, looking at the total that we spent, I am thinking of not renewing our APs which expire in August. We don't have another trip booked and we are thinking to delay our next trip. If we stay away for 9 months or a year, we can save some money. I think that we are not alone in thinking that the total spent is too much.

Walt Disney said that it was important to provide value to Disneyland guests. Value for dollar spent keeps people returning. We ate at the Hollywood and Vine Star Wars character dinner. It was a pleasant experience, but no where near balancing value for money spent. It was this dinner and the ridiculous costs that got us started thinking we were spending too much.

Sometimes one single experience can send you over a tipping point. That happened to us at the H&V dinner.

Prior to our WDW stay, we spent 4 days at HHI Disney resort. The difference in costs was notable. No theme park tickets, and no Disney dining. We actually bought Disney merchandise because we had extra money.

I agree with the previous posters when they imply that Disney will kill the golden goose with these price increases. When price increases exceed income, it will be OK for a while, but in the long term declines are inevitable.

 

[TP2000]

Thanks for the tips! However, have you seen the new International Terminal at LAX? It is quite amazing! It seems to be brand new and has all kind of cool screen effects and is really nice to hang out in! Lot's of great food choices as well. I looked around and found this blog post that describes it nicely. And it even shows the flight that I took (the AF A380).

Yes, it is a great new International terminal. I have only flown out of it once, on Norwegian Air. I generally use Air New Zealand for flights to Europe on their excellent 777 non-stops to London from LAX (Fabulous Kiwi service in very mod planes, and great food and wine). But the bad part is Air New Zealand flies out of crummy Terminal 2 along with Virgin Atlantic, Avianca, V Australia, and a few other international carriers that don't use A380's and thus aren't in the International Terminal. Most of the LAX International Terminal airlines are flying A380's into LAX or have committed to by 2016; Air France, British Airways, Korean Air, Emirates, Etihad, Lufthansa, Singapore Air, Malaysia Airlines, Thai Airways, China Southern, and Qantas. LAX is busy with A380's, and that new terminal is a Godsend for them.

LAX is trying to clean itself up, I get it. They are spending a couple Billion dollars on fixing LAX from now through 2017, and I wish them all the luck in the world. They need it.

But if you can use John Wayne or Long Beach for your Disneyland visit, those are much closer and much easier airports to use. Especially for domestic tourists flying within the USA.

 

[George]

I don't for a minute dispute all that you said in that post. I'm positive that all of it is true. The problem I have is that in spite of the highlighted line, there are more people going to WDW then ever before. In my mind that makes that statement incorrect. It may be expensive, it may be what many feel is out of line, but, it has not, in any form, made it unaffordable. It's just a bigger piece of our collective income. Unaffordable is when the parks are empty. That may happen before too long, but, it hasn't happened yet.

In a holistic sense I think you and @ParentsOf4 are both correct. The parks are crowded. However, if you dig into Mr. 04's posts he is pointing out that there has been a deleterious impact on profits and revenue with the price hikes. My family would be a good example. We're just back from a WDW family reunion that I heavily financed and we've never eaten in the room so many times. Out of 6 dinners, we had 2 in the parks and 4 in my family's 1BR unit (we were a party of 9). Also, my family (which has been a WDW family since 1972) spent the least amount of money I've ever seen them spend on merchandise and there was lots of making fun of prices which didn't happen the last time I did this (6 years ago). So, we were there and in the parks en masse, but spending less. Vacations are my expense (wife and I both work and we have a monetary division of labor). For the first time EVER, my wife was looking at WDW prices and suggesting other things we could do next summer with the kids.