The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[tamotu99]

-For the poster saying that Universal will surpass Epcot in attendance over the next few years: Kong vs. Frozen will be a blowout on the Disney side. I love King Kong, but he peaked in the 1930's, Frozen is hot now.

Also for all the doom and gloom over next gen, I found Fastpass plus to be an amazing upgrade over the original version of the system. Being able to gain fastpasses on my phone, instead of running around the park like a lunatic was a very nice change by the company.

Oh, and I was just at Disney, and Imagination was still open........

A top class well themed Frozen attraction, vs a top class well themed kong attraction, yes you're right . a maelstrom frozen overlay vs a top class well themed kong attraction, and although frozen may get the initial numbers it will not have the staying power and will not have the rerideability

at the end of the day the success of a ride long term is mostly dependent on how good the ride is, not on what the ip, after all how many people ride splash mountain but have never seen song of the south, an IP is great for grabbing the headlines and getting people to book first time

 

[Lord_Vader]

This x1000. Anyone who says "there's nothing for little kids" has never spent hours with a toddler in "If I Ran the Zoo" or "Curious George." Anyone who says IoA is not themed probably raced to the JP river ride then race out again, missing the Discovery Center and the various bits of theming along the paths. People who fantasize about WDW getting back Marvel don't seem to notice the hot line phone or the FF car or the Iron Man statue in the comics shop or the picture of JJ Jamison with Cap in the Spidey queue.

Disney created the commando mentality with FP. It's had nothing but a negative effect on their parks. If you can appreciate UOR with the same mentality guests had in 1970s-80s WDW, you'll get much more out of your visit.

You are right with the exception that Disney created the commando mentality. I think the commando mentality is the result of guests trying to maximize their every moment to the expense of "stopping to smell the roses." FP/FP+ when used to free time does just what it is supposed to, allows a guest the extra time to explore and take in all that the parks (WDW & USF/IoA) have. You see the commando mentality everywhere you go, at the Smithsonian, St. Louis Zoo, Chicago's History Museum, literally everywhere.

People are spending $$$ on their vacation and think that they are maximizing their time by running from place to place and not enjoying where they are for being there.

 

[SJN1279]

A top class well themed Frozen attraction, vs a top class well themed kong attraction, yes you're right . a maelstrom frozen overlay vs a top class well themed kong attraction, and although frozen may get the initial numbers it will not have the staying power and will not have the rerideability

at the end of the day the success of a ride long term is mostly dependent on how good the ride is, not on what the ip, after all how many people ride splash mountain but have never seen song of the south, an IP is great for grabbing the headlines and getting people to book first time

Just because Frozen will be an overlay, doesn't mean it won't be a quality attraction. I think Kong will be good, but I believe that it will be another Universal attraction that relies heavily on screens over practical effects.

Harry Potter is Universal's only real weapon against Disney, and that well is slowly drying up.

 

[GLaDOS]

Just because Frozen will be an overlay, doesn't mean it won't be a quality attraction. I think Kong will be good, but I believe that it will be another Universal attraction that relies heavily on screens over practical effects.

And clearly, Transformers raising USF's attendance means people don't care for those attractions.

 

[SJN1279]

And clearly, Transformers raising USF's attendance means people don't care for those attractions.

It may have raised attendance, not no where near a Disney level park. Potter is the only weapon.

 

[GLaDOS]

It may have raised attendance, not no where near a Disney level park. Potter is the only weapon.

What a ridiculous statement. It raised attendance by a million people in 1/2 a year, nearly the same amount as New Fantasyland did in a full year. Saying Transformers was a failure because it didn't raise attendance by 3 million people in a single year is ludicrous

 

[awilliams4]

I have to say I am rather po'd at DVC member services at the moment. We didn't get our waitlist at the Grand California Villas. I had to go to the DVC website to confirm that I would not be staying at a Disneyland resort, and therefore would not be going to Disneyland for a 3 night mini vacation.
Me thinks their priorities are a bit intercoursed. No follow up for alternate accommodations were offered. That's a huge fail in my book.
They don't even offer a full price, never mind a discounted price, on a resort stay to make sure I go there. Has it gotten to the point that they don't care, and that the rooms will fill anyway?

Sorry if I am not following. Are you just suggesting that DVC should contact you proactively to suggest other options if your waitlist doesn't go through? If so, I couldn't disagree anymore. I do not want my maintenace fees to staff a large group of people who just have daily waitlists where they call everyone based on an assumption on when they want to give up on the waitlist and say at 90 days out, become travel agents for you. What about those that want to wait until 60 days out, what about if they leave you a voice mail and say X is available but by the time you contact them, X is no longer available. All the tools are available to you to decide when you plan to give up on your waitlist and check for alternatives. Being POed that our maintenance fees don't go to convoluted travel agent attempts is misguided.

If my assumptions were wrong...sorry.

 

[mahnamahna101]

It may have raised attendance, not no where near a Disney level park. Potter is the only weapon.

Increasing capacity and guest spending is Universal's weapon... they took two empty areas of the park (Soundstage 44, and International Food and Film Festival area) and made them must-sees. They added rides without replacing anything... what a novel concept. While Kang and Kodos isn't anything special, it gives little kids something to do in the back-section of the park.

Family additions:
Despicable Me - stationary seating for those under 40"
Kang and Kodos - nice little spinner for kids
HE - rumored to be a spectacular E-ticket
Kong - supposed to have no height requirement, also an E-ticket
JP/JW expansion-revamp - rumors range from junior wooden coaster to Discovery Center dark ride to dino carousel, either way this will be for the 40" and under crowd.
KidZone revamp - should finally make this area all-ages like Fantasyland
Toon Lagoon - family dark ride could fit where the TL theater is
Seuss - bound to get some new stuff soon

Personally, I'd love to see Seuss get a nice makeover/expansion from 2016-2018. Get Cat back to being an all-ages dark ride, fix Seuss Trolley so that the ride doesn't have a 40" height requirement (32" would be ideal), add a trackless Lorax dark ride next to Cat, put a yearround show in the Grinchmas soundstage, take Lost Continent and build a Whoville mini-land (Grinch E-ticket with 38"-40" height requirement, Horton family boat ride, Noisarium walkthrough), fix up If I Ran the Zoo and relocate 1F2FRFBF to Green Eggs and Ham's spot. A frog hopper on Sneetch Beach themed to Yertle the Turtle... Seuss would be complete.

 

[Hyperspace Hoopla]

Here's where I think Disney has the upper hand on Universal, and maybe it just applied to me - but I don't think so.

My wife and I have been to all of the area theme parks many times. Since my young son was born, we've only done Disney - here's why. First, Magical Express takes me to my hotel and back to the airport free of charge - no rental car needed. For me to call a cab is doable certainly, but a bit of a hassle when there's a bus or a boat right outside to take me to a park for free.

Second, we take two trips to Disney a year. My DVC discounted annual pass is good for three vacations (typically May - Dec - May) for the price of hopper passes for a single one week stay. Universal might be great, but why would I pay $300 plus cab fare both ways to visit Universal, when I can usually walk to a Disney park for free?

Finally, my young son doesn't like thrill rides yet, but my wife does. It has admittedly been about 7 years since our last trip to Universal, but I don't remember there being enough that my son will do to justify the time and expense. Plus, my wife would be miserable if she we went all the way there and then didn't get to ride Hulk or the Mummy.

When he's a little older, I think we'll plan a short trip for the period when our AP's have expired (if we go May - Dec - May, we don't activate the new passes until the next Dec). We'll book a hark ticket event, maybe MNSSHP, do 2 days at Uni and one at Seaworld. Until then, I think it's all Disney for us.

 

[SJN1279]

Family additions:
Despicable Me - stationary seating for those under 40"
HE - rumored to be a spectacular E-ticket
Kong - supposed to have no height requirement, also an E-ticket
JP/JW expansion-revamp - rumors range from junior wooden coaster to Discovery Center dark ride to dino carousel, either way this will be for the 40" and under crowd.
Toon Lagoon - family dark ride could fit where the TL theater is
Seuss - bound to get a new dark ride someday

-Despicable Me- Having to sit in stationary seating is a nice feature, but it limits the adults from experiencing the full attraction.

-Hogwarts Express may be a great E-ticket(remains to be seen), but it also is a ride limited by the fact that it dumps you off in another park without a return trip. It sounds like it will be a low capacity confusing mess.

-The rest is all rumors and speculation. My son can't ride rumors and speculation or Star Wars Land yet. Also babyswap at Universal pales in comparison to babyswap at Disney.

 

[PhotoDave219]

It may have raised attendance, not no where near a Disney level park. Potter is the only weapon.

Havent we had this discussion before about facts and numbers? Do some damn research first.

In 2011, after the Wizarding World of Harry Potter was open for a full year, attendance at IOA jumped 29%, from 5.9M guests to 7.6M.

That outdrew three Disney parks: DCA at 6.3M, WDSP at 4.7M and HKDL at 5.9M.

So yes, the initial HP expansion did draw IOA up to the level of several Disney Parks. Flashing forward 2 years, DCA is now drawing 8.5M and IOA is at 8.1M. HKDL grew to 7.4M while WDSP is down to 4.4M.

So yes, IOA & USF both draw a Disney Park level.

 

[SJN1279]

What a ridiculous statement. It raised attendance by a million people in 1/2 a year, nearly the same amount as New Fantasyland did in a full year. Saying Transformers was a failure because it didn't raise attendance by 3 million people in a single year is ludicrous

The number one park in Orlando raising attendance by a wide margin raising attendance by one million is much more impressive than the number 6 park in Orlando doing so.

For my money, New Fantasyland blows Harry Potter 1.0 out of the water. More attractions, more balance, greater capacity, and just all around more things to experience.

 

[SJN1279]

Havent we had this discussion before about facts and numbers? Do some damn research first.

In 2011, after the Wizarding World of Harry Potter was open for a full year, attendance at IOA jumped 29%, from 5.9M guests to 7.6M.

That outdrew three Disney parks: DCA at 6.3M, WDSP at 4.7M and HKDL at 5.9M.

So yes, the initial HP expansion did draw IOA up to the level of several Disney Parks. Flashing forward 2 years, DCA is now drawing 8.5M and IOA is at 8.1M. HKDL grew to 7.4M while WDSP is down to 4.4M.

So yes, IOA & USF both draw a Disney Park level.

Not a Disney park Orlando level, my mistake.

 

[baymenxpac]

The number one park in Orlando raising attendance by a wide margin raising attendance by one million is much more impressive than the number 6 park in Orlando doing so.

For my money, New Fantasyland blows Harry Potter 1.0 out of the water. More attractions, more balance, greater capacity, and just all around more things to experience.

your (in my mind, irrational) preference for disney over UNI is apparent. but the OP has requested we not get bogged down in this tired debate, so -- since this thread provides the most salient information on the boards -- let's try to abide by that.

 

[71jason]

You are right with the exception that Disney created the commando mentality. I think the commando mentality is the result of guests trying to maximize their every moment to the expense of "stopping to smell the roses." FP/FP+ when used to free time does just what it is supposed to, allows a guest the extra time to explore and take in all that the parks (WDW & USF/IoA) have. You see the commando mentality everywhere you go, at the Smithsonian, St. Louis Zoo, Chicago's History Museum, literally everywhere.

People are spending $$$ on their vacation and think that they are maximizing their time by running from place to place and not enjoying where they are for being there.

Yes, but again, that's Disney as well. @ParentsOf4 has done some nice charts showing how WDW prices have outpaced inflation. I agree there is a "we spent $15,000, you're going to see everything, kid!" mentality, but only because WDW has raised prices.

 

[tamotu99]

Havent we had this discussion before about facts and numbers? Do some damn research first.

In 2011, after the Wizarding World of Harry Potter was open for a full year, attendance at IOA jumped 29%, from 5.9M guests to 7.6M.

That outdrew three Disney parks: DCA at 6.3M, WDSP at 4.7M and HKDL at 5.9M.

So yes, the initial HP expansion did draw IOA up to the level of several Disney Parks. Flashing forward 2 years, DCA is now drawing 8.5M and IOA is at 8.1M. HKDL grew to 7.4M while WDSP is down to 4.4M.

So yes, IOA & USF both draw a Disney Park level.

Yeah but WDSP sucks and isnt at the level of a Disney Park, (my understanding is that it was rush built, at a budger price, to comply with the deal they made with french/parisan government) ratatouille will help a bit, but to be honest in needs probably double what DCA did, it is by far the worst laid out theme park (well at least Disney theme park)

The number one park in Orlando raising attendance by a wide margin raising attendance by one million is much more impressive than the number 6 park in Orlando doing so.

For my money, New Fantasyland blows Harry Potter 1.0 out of the water. More attractions, more balance, greater capacity, and just all around more things to experience.

New fantasyland is alright, but it by no way has the pulling power of Harry Potter, the theming level of harry potter is a step above fantasyland, it is a step above any land in WDW.

 

[Todd H]

For my money, New Fantasyland blows Harry Potter 1.0 out of the water. More attractions, more balance, greater capacity, and just all around more things to experience.

You can't be serious. The Pixie Dust is strong in this one.

 

[GLaDOS]

The number one park in Orlando raising attendance by a wide margin raising attendance by one million is much more impressive than the number 6 park in Orlando doing so.

Yet again, you're moving the goal line. First it's "no one wants to see screen attractions" then it's "Transformer's attendance bump didn't put it on DHS/DAK's level" now it's "MK gaining people is more impressive".

It's okay to admit you were wrong, you know.

 

[mahnamahna101]

The number one park in Orlando raising attendance by a wide margin raising attendance by one million is much more impressive than the number 6 park in Orlando doing so.

For my money, New Fantasyland blows Harry Potter 1.0 out of the water. More attractions, more balance, greater capacity, and just all around more things to experience.

More? Let's see... we lost a classic dark ride for a M&G, got an admittedly beautiful B&TB area but no dark ride, Little Mermaid clone that has a wonderful queue line and facade but is bland on the inside, and Tangled bathrooms which admittedly look better than the old Skyway station.

SDMT is a great, if far too brief, addition that finally gives Fantasyland something close to an E-ticket. A Frozen or B&TB trackless dark ride would push it past Potter for sure. If the area had an E-ticket (Little Mermaid is a C+, SDMT a D+), I'd agree... but nothing in NFL tops FJ as far as ride experience. The show building needs to be covered up (maybe Great Hall could be built behind the castle, giving Universal a reason to fix that fatal flaw)

Considering how much Universal spent ($260 million), and how much Disney did ($500 million)... Potter was a better ROI. Added 2.2 million guests over a 3 year period. Increased guest spending to astronomical levels. Allowed Universal to increase attraction count at USF. Paved the way for Diagon Alley.

For the record, by the end of 2015, both parks will have sky-rocketed past DCA. By 2021, Hollywood Studios is toast unless they add Star Wars Land and a Monsters Inc. door coaster, Animal Kingdom will be equaled since Pandora will likely be a solid addition, and Epcot will be within 1 million guests of being reached. You can bet all of the additions over the next few years will get both parks past 10 million guests.

 

[asianway]

Hey spirit looks like "Salad & Breadstix" is upholding the fine journalistic heritage set by her predecessor: news articles consisting of lifestyler quotes.

If you're going to never leave your desk for a story you may as well outsource to India