The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[spacemt354]

You probably will never understand because you did not grow up going to Disneyland (right?).

For DL veterans who've been to MK as well, they may prefer DL because of its rich history, a big part of it having to do with Walt Disney. I'm sure you understand most Disney fans are huge fans of Walt Disney himself. People who grew up going to Disneyland we're told stories of when Mr. Disney was alive and how he'd be strolling through the park. The personal touches and things found in the park that have been there for decades. We learned of the parks history through CMs and television shows. There are kids, who are now grown adults and most of them elderly, who remember watching the Disneyland show and being excited for its opening. Some of them remember seeing Walt Disney in the park. It's like some guests feel closer to Walt Disney through Disneyland, as bizarre as that is.

There are eleven, soon to be twelve Disney parks around the globe, but only one was fully developed by the man himself. All of the parks are unique, but that fact alone makes Disneyland unique in a special way. Many Disneyland fans, especially the elderly ones, take A LOT of pride in this fact, and this is why they will always prefer the original and bring up the whole "Walt had nothing to do with it" reason. To them, the others lack a personal touch by Walt Disney, and, therefor, are inferior. It's just a history/Walt Disney thing, but again, I don't expect you to really understand where these people are coming from. I hope this explanation helps a little bit with your trying to understand.

I think the issue is, we have to respect where other viewpoints are coming from.

If someone has grown up with Disneyland and is explaining it to someone who has never been there, it's hard to convey a feeling, an emotion, a sense of attachment to the original theme park created and enjoyed by Walt Disney.

Though it's not quite fair to simply dismiss other parks as being 'inferior' (especially if you haven't visited them) simply because you've grown up with the original. The same type of respect DL folks ask for from others regarding their 'home', should be the same respect they distribute to others who might call WDW or TDL or anywhere else their 'home'

Despite that, in the fan community, that level of understanding on both sides is probably never going to be obtained. And frankly, as long as my family and I are happy and want to call a Disney park 'home', that's really all that matters, not whether or not somebody understands my viewpoint.

 

[stlphil]

In my case I am staying on site, but spending less than $1000 on flight + hotel + airport transfers before tax, and I'm not staying at All-Stars either. I'm also not the kind of person who pays for a 7-day hopper with fun option "just in case" I want to do any of those things at any given time. I'd have to really s-t-r-e-t-c-h the food budget to hit $2K, let alone the $7 grand figure that gets thrown around here sometimes. Such is the perk of travelling solo. When it comes to vacation spending, it's about doing it smart, not just paying the asking price. I also already did an on-site stay at UNI early in the year and only want to do one day there for Diagon Alley.

And speaking of prices, can someone explain to me why Swalphin is charging the better part of $300/night for a Spetember weeknight when they were offering $148/night Easter weekend and I can get a room at AKL for $198/night for the same day, even booking through Disney?

Could it be the reason for the Swalphin pricing is they are EPCOT resorts and F&W is going on?

 

[Absimilliard]

How I see it, CCI built an absolute masterpiece in Boulder Dash at Lake Compounce, which was twice voted the best wooden coaster in the country in 2004 and 2013. They built the coaster on the side of a mountain, making sure to remove as few trees as possible and even build the supports into actual boulders. The ride did go under a major refurbishment during the 2007-2008 offseason after new owners bought the park, re-tracking the ride and getting new trains.

That is not correct for the most part.

CCI did not build a masterpiece in 2000. The poor design and shoddy construction made the ride a disaster only a few years after construction are well known in the industry. A funny example: a small park in Maine contracted a new coaster. The ride is not even finished that the owner of CCI phoned her crew, told them to pack their things and to move to California to build Ghostrider! She left TWO guys there and the park maintenance crew had to basically finish the ride themself. As for the tunnel they paid for? Nowhere to be seen...

When GCI came in (the people who built the new White Lightning at Fun Spot America near Universal) to rebuild Boulder Dash at Lake Compounce, they spent two years during the offseason adding footers, rebuilding the structure and changing all the track to proper coaster grade wood. The horrific construction basically broke down the trains and so they got two used trains from Hersheypark to replace the original set. The job GCI was so good the park general manager now proudly say Boulder Dash is a GCI masterpiece and it worked... After the large American Coaster Enthusiasts event with over 400 attendees in june 2013, the ride was voted again the best wooden coaster in the world.

Back to Ghostrider, there are not many solutions. What Six Flags been doing since 2011 is take their problematic rides and call a company from Idaho who come in, rip out the existing track, reinforce and modify the structure and add new elements with their I beam steel track. The result is a ride that kinda feel like a wooden coaster, but with none of the excessive roughness and maintenance. I have a hunch Ghostrider will get that treatment soon....

 

[asianway]

I remember the "Promote Paul Pressler" campaign and the empassioned arguments that went with it. And.... Pressler was promoted, caused even more damage....and moved on to CEO of another company. Al's dialogues not only exposed a sick culture within a single company, they highlighted an entire disfunctional business culture.

Al did a great job for sure. Castro & that @RSoxNo1 guy are the only ones with any fire anymore. I get the feeling everyone else is angling to get on the media invite list.

 

[spacemt354]

If you think that WDW suddenly turns your family into a loving bunch just because Goofy had fun rubbing Uncle Harry's bald head over breakfast at Chef Mickey's, then you may just not travel enough.

I have a friend who I have tried to get out of her comfort zone for probably 20 years now (yeah, you can see how successful that's been!) and her answer always is ''I love chocolate ice cream, so why should I try any other flavor?'' That is what I see with SOME of the WDW chronics. Before you start a nasty reply, please realize I am not talking about anyone here. I am speaking in general of a mindset ... a mindset that may be ''Vacation for us is two weeks at the BW every July and 10 days at VWL every third December too.'' There's a whole world out there. A world of amazing places, some even include theme parks. And one does themselves no service by repeating the same thing every year, even if they enjoy it because they are precluding the opportunities to enjoy what else is out there.

I agree with most of your assessment, though where I differ is where you say "one does themselves no service by repeating the same thing every year."

If I like something, I usually stick with it. Like you were saying with the chocolate ice cream, that's me with a lot of things in life, but I don't see what's wrong with it and I think it's a bit of a leap to claim I'm not doing myself a service for enjoying a certain vacation.

Our family might be different, considering we usually travel in a large group. Aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. Around 10 people on most occasions. With a lot of people, there are several factors that some people might take for granted, that tend to add up over a week. Travel expenses, food, hotels. If you're used to traveling with your significant other and budgeting for just 2...Multiply that budget by 5. It's easier in a small group to take a trip to Europe, or Hawaii, or Asia. In a large group, not so much. We've looked into Perillo tours in Italy and such, but the amount of stress and aggravation just to get to the destination and back, coupled with the excess cost and anxiety of keeping everyone on the same page just isn't worth it. Because what's it all for? What are we doing this for? So that we can do ourselves a 'service' and see a different location despite all the unnecessary variables we have to deal with?

Walt Disney World is our home. Though it's not the pixie dust that brings us back. We don't march to the "brand's" fife. If we enjoyed Cape Cod or somewhere else more, we wouldn't go back and would go there instead. But the fact is that the place brings us together like no other place we've been to. Yes, we've been to California, Disneyland, and because we drive down (saves the cost of flying), we've visited basically every city on I-95 and even as far west as Asheville, NC. But those stops along the way always lead us to our favorite vacation destination. And although we enjoyed California, we still prefer Disney World.

Could it be because we are comfortable with it? Because it offers something for everyone and we can all vacation with the peace of mind because we know where everything is and we can actually use the week off we have in the summer to simply relax in our favorite place? Yes, that's why we go back. Granted that was why we were so frustrated last time with the front desk nonsense, but from what I have read and heard from others, it seems like the issues have been fixed, which is good. And I'm sure people will say we can relax in other places around the world, but I disagree. We do ourselves a service when we are together as a family in our favorite place. That's the best service we will ever do.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

You probably will never understand because you did not grow up going to Disneyland (right?).

For DL veterans who've been to MK as well, they may prefer DL because of its rich history, a big part of it having to do with Walt Disney. I'm sure you understand most Disney fans are huge fans of Walt Disney himself. People who grew up going to Disneyland we're told stories of when Mr. Disney was alive and how he'd be strolling through the park. The personal touches and things found in the park that have been there for decades. We learned of the parks history through CMs and television shows. There are kids, who are now grown adults and most of them elderly, who remember watching the Disneyland show and being excited for its opening. Some of them remember seeing Walt Disney in the park. It's like some guests feel closer to Walt Disney through Disneyland, as bizarre as that is.

There are eleven, soon to be twelve Disney parks around the globe, but only one was fully developed by the man himself. All of the parks are unique, but that fact alone makes Disneyland unique in a special way. Many Disneyland fans, especially the elderly ones, take A LOT of pride in this fact, and this is why they will always prefer the original and bring up the whole "Walt had nothing to do with it" reason. To them, the others lack a personal touch by Walt Disney, and, therefor, are inferior. It's just a history/Walt Disney thing, but again, I don't expect you to really understand where these people are coming from. I hope this explanation helps a little bit with your trying to understand.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Raven24. I got your point, and I understand that. I will still cal WDW my home, but I get your attachment to DL. Walt Disney was a fantastic person, like I said before. Thanks also to the others that replied.

 

[Omnispace]

That is not correct for the most part.

CCI did not build a masterpiece in 2000. The poor design and shoddy construction made the ride a disaster only a few years after construction are well known in the industry. A funny example: a small park in Maine contracted a new coaster. The ride is not even finished that the owner of CCI phoned her crew, told them to pack their things and to move to California to build Ghostrider! She left TWO guys there and the park maintenance crew had to basically finish the ride themself. As for the tunnel they paid for? Nowhere to be seen...

When GCI came in (the people who built the new White Lightning at Fun Spot America near Universal) to rebuild Boulder Dash at Lake Compounce, they spent two years during the offseason adding footers, rebuilding the structure and changing all the track to proper coaster grade wood. The horrific construction basically broke down the trains and so they got two used trains from Hersheypark to replace the original set. The job GCI was so good the park general manager now proudly say Boulder Dash is a GCI masterpiece and it worked... After the large American Coaster Enthusiasts event with over 400 attendees in june 2013, the ride was voted again the best wooden coaster in the world.

Back to Ghostrider, there are not many solutions. What Six Flags been doing since 2011 is take their problematic rides and call a company from Idaho who come in, rip out the existing track, reinforce and modify the structure and add new elements with their I beam steel track. The result is a ride that kinda feel like a wooden coaster, but with none of the excessive roughness and maintenance. I have a hunch Ghostrider will get that treatment soon....

I wouldn't mind it if Knott's tore down Ghostrider. Even though I enjoyed it when it was new, it pretty much obliterated a lot of unique history. Knott's should have embraced and expanded their California Marketplace, not build a coaster in the middle of it. They had a "lifestyle center" before the concept had really taken off in the retail world. Talk about lack of vision...!

 

[Smiddimizer]

Has WDW really declined or or is it just changing to meet guest expectations?

Put it this way: guest expectations have changed-they've declined, along with WDW.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I think the issue is, we have to respect where other viewpoints are coming from.

If someone has grown up with Disneyland and is explaining it to someone who has never been there, it's hard to convey a feeling, an emotion, a sense of attachment to the original theme park created and enjoyed by Walt Disney.

Though it's not quite fair to simply dismiss other parks as being 'inferior' (especially if you haven't visited them) simply because you've grown up with the original. The same type of respect DL folks ask for from others regarding their 'home', should be the same respect they distribute to others who might call WDW or TDL or anywhere else their 'home'

Despite that, in the fan community, that level of understanding on both sides is probably never going to be obtained. And frankly, as long as my family and I are happy and want to call a Disney park 'home', that's really all that matters, not whether or not somebody understands my viewpoint.

I agree with you, but once people have made up their minds about this particular subject, especially the older fans, it's hard to change their minds.

 

[fbb]

You rang?...
Can you imagine such uniformly slender, healthy, attractive young women working at a 21st century Disney park?!? Walt sure knew what he was doing.

Whoever hires the young women for the Mexico pavilion at Epcot also knows what he's doing.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Raven24. I got your point, and I understand that. I will still cal WDW my home, but I get your attachment to DL. Walt Disney was a fantastic person, like I said before. Thanks also to the others that replied.

You're welcome, but just to clarify, I'm not speaking from a personal standpoint. I personally don't have an opinion on the subject of Disneyland vs. Magic Kingdom.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Could it be the reason for the Swalphin pricing is they are EPCOT resorts and F&W is going on?

Already said the dates were before September 19.

 

[dadddio]

To them, the others lack a personal touch by Walt Disney, and, therefor, are inferior. It's just a history/Walt Disney thing, but again, I don't expect you to really understand where these people are coming from.

I wonder if you see the error in their logic?

 

[dadddio]

If you took time to read what most of us inside over a lengthy time., You'd find out that most of the people you think that are being "negative "are some of the biggest Disney fans out there and think they can be doing so much better than they currently are. And we are such fans of the company, we want to see them doing better than they are right now.

I think that those people believe that they are big fans, anyway.

 

[dadddio]

Yes, definitely this....especially American Airlines...ironic that they are now under the same company umbrella as Japan Air, but the difference in quality is like the difference between a Motel 6 and a Four Seasons

American Airlines does not and has never owned JAL. They are code share partners through OneWorld. That's all.

 

[LithiumBill]

My family chooses WDW/Orlando for or big vacations (for now). We travel all around during the summers. Taking trips to New Hampshire, Maine, DC, Vermont, NYC... lots of places. We do lots of driving trips, and enjoy those places. But our family is not ready for a trip abroad - cannto afford it, and I am sure that my kids would not want to do the same things that the wife and I will - someday the two of us will travel to make up for these places.

Yes we can make memories everywhere else, and we do. I have thousands and thousands of pictures and treasures to prove it.

But when we take a BIG TRIP when we get together we all agree to visit WDW and Orlando.

I don't like to be considered a RUBE or UNEDUCATED HICK for doing so. It feels like Spirits comment on this was, GO FORTH AND DO OTHER THINGS... That we are indoctrinated into some pixie dust mayhem... We are not. We go to UNI, and enjoy it. It's not MAGICal Disney Marketing, it is our families love of the PArks and time together. We are not drenched in Disney merchandise (although my girls are covered in FROZEN at the moment).

Not everyone that goes is a low-minded lemming.

 

[LithiumBill]

And to be fair, I love what Sprit says here, and value his opinion immensely! I want to travel like he does, for sure! Someday I'll flip to the 1%, someday.

 

[TP2000]

Not to be rude, but, what's the big deal?

You aren't rude at all! This is great conversation.

The big deal stems from the fact Orlando management has made a conscious decision to fabricate a fake history that ties Walt directly to the planning, design and implementation of Magic Kingdom Park circa 1967 to 1971. Except he was already dead and cremated before then. And his plans for the theme park on the Florida property before his death in 1966 were nothing more than an exact copy of Disneyland circa 1965 (the original cut and paste).

But TDO figures there's some money and good will to be made by attaching the Florida property more to Walt. So they create a fake history, fudge the facts a bit, and stretch the truth. From the WDW official website comes this description of the Keys To The Kingdom guided tour...

An in-depth, 5-hour look at the most iconic theme park at Walt Disney World Resort.
Hear the intriguing story of Walt Disney and how his vision, innovation and creativity brought the theme park to life. You’ll gain insight on Walt’s thought process as he was designing the park, learn fun trivia and little-known facts, discover hidden Mickeys and other often-overlooked details, and more.

Really?!? He did this in the late 1960's from beyond the grave?

And that's just the official website blurb. When I took this tour almost 10 years ago, the perky tour hostess was throwing out all sorts of Walt-based falsehoods and fabrications and erroneous information. "Walt wanted the view here on Main Street to...." "Walt was always a big fan of Mark Twain's stories, so when he designed the Rivers of America here he...." "It was always Walt's dream for the Magic Kingdom to be..." "Walt wasn't satisfied with the simpler Mr. Lincoln show at Disneyland, so he planned this show in Florida to feature every President in the nation's history and instructed his Imagineers to..."

I didn't want to be "that guy", so I just gritted my teeth and smiled along with the clueless East Coast rubes also on the tour who lapped up every word the hostess said. On about the second hour of the tour I had gotten over being annoyed and was thoroughly entertained by how factually inaccurate or just plain dumb her tour spiel was, and it became hilariously funny! I've considered taking the tour again, just for the comedy of errors.

Here's Walt Disney's plan for Magic Kingdom Park as posted in the Florida Project Room at Imagineering in Glendale, California in October, 1966. This was what was on the wall during Walt's last visit to WDI in Glendale about 45 days before he died at St. Joseph's Hospital on December 15, 1966.

The "park" is a cut and paste copy of Disneyland circa 1966, right down to New Orleans Square and StorybookLand and the Matterhorn and the Flying Saucers. Motor Inns and campgrounds surround the park, and directly in front is a monorail station flanked by what is identified on better screengrabs as an "Ice Rink" and "Rollerdrome". (Uh, okay Walt, if that's really where you want an ice rink...)

But then again, nothing that was approved by Walt in 1966 for the Florida property actually made it into the opening day roster of facilities by late 1971. That ice rink never had a chance.

Walt in the Florida Project Room, October 1966 - Walt was dead six weeks after this photo was taken. Nothing pictured here existed by 1971.

Sad thing is that there are a lot of WDW CM's, and too many casual fans as customers, who believe Walt Disney had anything to do with the planning, design or implementation of Magic Kingdom Park as it opened five years after his death in 1971. History matters. If you lie about history to gain profit or friends, that's a problem.

 

[CDavid]

Whoever hires the young women for the Mexico pavilion at Epcot also knows what he's doing.

or she's doing

I rather think the stunning appearance of many young female Cast Members (at several World Showcase pavilions) provides ample evidence they were hired by a man...

 

[FutureWorld1982]

Sad thing is that there are a lot of WDW CM's, and too many casual fans as customers, who believe Walt Disney had anything to do with the planning, design or implementation of Magic Kingdom Park as it opened five years after his death in 1971. History matters. If you lie about history to gain profit or friends, that's a problem.

I get that point, and I agree with that. Facts should be stated as they are, not molded to their liking.
That said, mine was a side point. I am more than happy that we have the parks we currently have, no matter if they were designed by Walt Disney or not. It's the Disneyland VS. Walt Disney World comments that I don't get. Enjoy all the parks as they are. Yes, Walt Disney World has quite a few areas where it should improve, but so does Disneyland. I love both Resorts, by the way.