The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[Animaniac93-98]

What's the week in question?

Second week of the month.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Have no idea if this has been mentioned here, but was catching up on reading and this story was in the 5/30 print edition of THR:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/walt-disney-family-feud-inside-706029

It's quite sad, but not at all unusual. The story is more of an outline as it raises more questions than it answers, but it still is interesting.

Bob and Michael in one picture... Michael has his Mickey ears on. Haha

 

[marni1971]

I could personally care less if Walt

You might not but plenty of others do.

I don't like soccer but plenty of others do.

I deal with it.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

You might not but plenty of others do.

I don't like soccer but plenty of others do.

I deal with it.

I completely understand, that's why I said that I personally don't find that to be an important factor when choosing to visit a theme park. I will never understand people who say that Disneyland will always be the best just because it was personally built by Walt Disney. Yes, Disneyland Park is currently better than Magic Kingdom, but that's because of the offerings.

I deal with it too. Just stating my personal opinion. There's too much negativity on these forums (forums in general, not pointing to WDWMagic).

 

[justavoice]

Second week of the month.

A large insurance computer software conference is there mid sept. 15th to 18th

 

[The Mom]

Just a couple of reminders. No political or religious discussions, please. Please try to stay on topic as much as possible (given the nature of the thread) Please review the terms and rules from time to time. (posted on the bottom of the page) Thank you.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

A large insurance computer software conference is there mid sept. 15th to 18th

I was looking at dates just before that.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I will never understand people who say that Disneyland will always be the best just because it was personally built by Walt Disney.

You probably will never understand because you did not grow up going to Disneyland (right?).

For DL veterans who've been to MK as well, they may prefer DL because of its rich history, a big part of it having to do with Walt Disney. I'm sure you understand most Disney fans are huge fans of Walt Disney himself. People who grew up going to Disneyland we're told stories of when Mr. Disney was alive and how he'd be strolling through the park. The personal touches and things found in the park that have been there for decades. We learned of the parks history through CMs and television shows. There are kids, who are now grown adults and most of them elderly, who remember watching the Disneyland show and being excited for its opening. Some of them remember seeing Walt Disney in the park. It's like some guests feel closer to Walt Disney through Disneyland, as bizarre as that is.

There are eleven, soon to be twelve Disney parks around the globe, but only one was fully developed by the man himself. All of the parks are unique, but that fact alone makes Disneyland unique in a special way. Many Disneyland fans, especially the elderly ones, take A LOT of pride in this fact, and this is why they will always prefer the original and bring up the whole "Walt had nothing to do with it" reason. To them, the others lack a personal touch by Walt Disney, and, therefor, are inferior. It's just a history/Walt Disney thing, but again, I don't expect you to really understand where these people are coming from. I hope this explanation helps a little bit with your trying to understand.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I completely understand, that's why I said that I personally don't find that to be an important factor when choosing to visit a theme park. I will never understand people who say that Disneyland will always be the best just because it was personally built by Walt Disney. Yes, Disneyland Park is currently better than Magic Kingdom, but that's because of the offerings.

I deal with it too. Just stating my personal opinion. There's too much negativity on these forums (forums in general, not pointing to WDWMagic).

If you took time to read what most of us inside over a lengthy time., You'd find out that most of the people you think that are being "negative "are some of the biggest Disney fans out there and think they can be doing so much better than they currently are. And we are such fans of the company, we want to see them doing better than they are right now.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I was looking at dates just before that.

As long as it's after Labor Day, it should be average to slightly lower than average attendance?

 

[bhg469]

If you took time to read what most of us inside over a lengthy time., You'd find out that most of the people you think that are being "negative "are some of the biggest Disney fans out there and think they can be doing so much better than they currently are. And we are such fans of the company, we want to see them doing better than they are right now.

.

Agreed 10000000%

I didn't join this forum to bash Disney's shortcomings. I was one of those people that wanted to like right outside the gates of Epcot and spend every day of my life theret. This was as recently as 5 ish years ago. That has changed tremendously, it took me a while to figure out that I started loving wdw on its decline though. It is going to take some major attractions and a huge philosophy shift for me to look at them the way I did before.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Agreed 10000000%

I didn't join this forum to bash Disney's shortcomings. I was one of those people that wanted to like right outside the gates of Epcot and spend every day of my life theret. This was as recently as 5 ish years ago. That has changed tremendously, it took me a while to figure out that I started loving wdw on its decline though. It is going to take some major attractions and a huge philosophy shift for me to look at them the way I did before.

You know what ? At first I liked lil Bobby Iger. I liked his fence mending with Pixar in the acquisitions he's made. I like that he finally finished bringing the Muppets into the fold (That was started 20 years ago), I like the Star Wars & Marvel deals. The company is prime for another 25 years of outright dominance.

However I don't see the company striking while the iron is hot. I don't see them taking advantage of any of this. Yes, the Marvel cinematic universe is been fantastic. Pixar has stumbled a little of late… But that was bound to happen eventually. Star Wars is primed to explode… Hopefully in a fantastic way as opposed to the Death Star.

I just don't see the long-term reinvestment in what they already had before those acquisitions. The growth appears to be through acquisition rather then what we already had. And rather then ran fast, they become Wall Street's lapdog. The stock price goes up so Iger's salary goes up through his stock options. It's ridiculously corporate… And it frustrates the bloody hell out of me.

If they combined their current marketing pushes that they have for the theme parks… Mix that with the proper reinvestment that they used to do (see @ParentsOf4 's dissertation on that) and you would not be discussing the theme parks as a legacy business. You would not be discussing losing market share in Orlando. Instead… You would be talking about the dominance of what Disney is.

 

[wdisney9000]

Not to be rude, but, what's the big deal?

Isn't the Magic Kingdom Park a great park? Isn't it the most visited theme park in the world? Isn't it one of the favorite places for families to visit on the planet? THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.
Walt Disney was a fantastic person. Without him, we wouldn't have Disneyland, the Walt Disney World Resort (which will always be my favorite, even though many things need to change). That said, I can't understand why some people are so focused on who built this, what year it opened, etc... I could personally care less if Walt actually had a part on building the Magic Kingdom Park or not. All that counts is that the park captured the essence of what Walt believed in. It perfectly reflect Walt's dreams of having people step in a different world, where they can put their worries aside. Again, that's all that matters.

Of course, I thank you for reminding us about this fact, historically speaking. Because to me, it has no other value.

I hope you won't take this as a message directed to you. It is just what I think every time I hear this same discussion.

I think your missing the original point.

 

[Cesar R M]

Don't forget about Mat Damons movie "Promised Land" about anti-fracking was mostly funded by the royal family of the UAE. Companies likr WB, Paramount, and Universal are all cashing in as well. WB signed a multi-billion dollar contract already with the UAE

The new Four Seasons hotel in Orlando is coming along nicely and It will no doubt be extremely lavish but the money is coming from heavily UAE connected Prince Alwaleed who is a co-owner of the hotel chain. His partner is Monsanto loving Bill Gates. The Beverly Hills Hotel and The Hotel Bel-Air are already under fire from protesters due to the owner being the Sultan of Brunei who's country is under sharia law. It's funny how the LA Clippers fiasco received so much attention for weeks yet the Hotels being owned by a ruler who allows gays to be jailed and killed gets very little coverage. Such fair and balanced news. Donald Sterling may be racist, but he's got nothing on the Sultan.

There's all kinds of dots to be connected here and the rabbit hole goes quite deep. I guess the UAE is hoping their image and "brand" will come out cleaner looking on the other end if they give enough people money

I think the issue is.

The thing with the clipper team drama happened in US soil and was blasted very strongly.

What happens with these chains are.. they stay in their own countries.
If they dared to pull a sharia law in the United States and they were caught blasting a woman or similar.. It would cause an even bigger outrage than the clipper team drama IMHO.

 

[Cesar R M]

Not to be rude, but, what's the big deal?

Isn't the Magic Kingdom Park a great park? Isn't it the most visited theme park in the world? Isn't it one of the favorite places for families to visit on the planet? THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.
Walt Disney was a fantastic person. Without him, we wouldn't have Disneyland, the Walt Disney World Resort (which will always be my favorite, even though many things need to change). That said, I can't understand why some people are so focused on who built this, what year it opened, etc... I could personally care less if Walt actually had a part on building the Magic Kingdom Park or not. All that counts is that the park captured the essence of what Walt believed in. It perfectly reflect Walt's dreams of having people step in a different world, where they can put their worries aside. Again, that's all that matters.

Of course, I thank you for reminding us about this fact, historically speaking. Because to me, it has no other value.

I hope you won't take this as a message directed to you. It is just what I think every time I hear this same discussion.

I think the point was, they were selling the full history of the magic kingdom, the process.. the buildings..etc..
If they are giving you incorrect information.. wouldn't you be annoyed? If I want to know and pay the history, they could at least give me the correct one. Just IMHO.

Of course, If I just wanted to enjoy the park Id agree fully with your point of view.

 

[ChrisFL]

Fares to Japan are brutal. Especially when you want to splurge on Business for the 12 hour flight.

But whatever you do, don't fly an American carrier to Japan; with their battle-tank stewardesses in polyester potato sacks and a bad attitude serving microwaved slop. Fly Japan Airlines or All Nippon Airways and you'll think you went to heaven with gracious, attractive stewardesses in elegant uniforms serving edible food with an intense focus on the passenger experience and hospitality. No request is too small, the plane is immaculate, and the staff is pitch-perfect. If you can swing a Premium Economy seat on JAL or ANA, you'll get a domestic first class seat, free booze, and more courtesy from your cabin hostess than you ever thought possible.

But man, they sure don't offer any deals on the routes to Tokyo or Osaka!

Yes, definitely this....especially American Airlines...ironic that they are now under the same company umbrella as Japan Air, but the difference in quality is like the difference between a Motel 6 and a Four Seasons

 

[Omnispace]

Spirited Saturday Explanation:

I realize there has been some consternation and, dare I say, drama, over my asking a simple question. Understand there was no hidden agenda. I was curious and looking for opinions. This wasn't like say Eddie Sotto (remember him?) using a forum here for a book deal with Lifestyler Michael Crawford (did he sell his soul to be part of D23? you be the judge, I'll just pose the question and remind you all that if you aren't under the oath, the NSA is still watching!) that apparently isn't happening.

I wanted to hear opinions. That's usually why a Spirit might pose a question.

I won't argue with people who think WDW is still worth their thousands of dollars.

I will pose the idea that some of the folks who talk about going for family, for making memories, for nostalgia's sake may be addicted to Disney's marketing MAGIC.

If you want to have MAGICal times with family and friends, you do not have to go to WDW (or any theme park for that matter to do so) and it is simplistic and naive to say WDW makes those. It doesn't. People do.

I have had amazing times at WDW to be sure (and in every Disney park on the planet). I've also had amazing times hiking Denali National Park, walking the Great Wall of China, eating at cafes across from Notre Dame (no, not the home of the Fighting Irish), snorkeling in Hawaii, doing very little in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, camping in a tiny Maine town, looking down into the Grand Canyon, having ice cream while sitting on a bench looking at the surf come in in Laguna Beach, watching the lights come on across the Pearl River Delta from 108 stories up the Canton Tower, watching bears in the wild in Sequoia National Park, walking down LV Blvd's Strip, spending the week before Christmas in NYC ... I could list another 100 things that were with loved ones and MAGICal. The point being that the place doesn't make the MAGIC. The people do.

If you think that WDW suddenly turns your family into a loving bunch just because Goofy had fun rubbing Uncle Harry's bald head over breakfast at Chef Mickey's, then you may just not travel enough.

I have a friend who I have tried to get out of her comfort zone for probably 20 years now (yeah, you can see how successful that's been!) and her answer always is ''I love chocolate ice cream, so why should I try any other flavor?'' That is what I see with SOME of the WDW chronics. Before you start a nasty reply, please realize I am not talking about anyone here. I am speaking in general of a mindset ... a mindset that may be ''Vacation for us is two weeks at the BW every July and 10 days at VWL every third December too.'' There's a whole world out there. A world of amazing places, some even include theme parks. And one does themselves no service by repeating the same thing every year, even if they enjoy it because they are precluding the opportunities to enjoy what else is out there.

Anyway ... that's just my opinion. I'm enjoying reading yours. Maybe I'll turn them into a book?

Hmmm.....dropping some book deal hints.....is there something new here? I was following Eddie's thread -- it had some thoughtful discussion, like here. I always felt he was being genuine though his coincidental departure with Tony's window unveiling left me wondering what happened. Your comments make me feel like I missed something.

Everyone has their own idea of where they want to spend their vacations whether they are just a place to relax, a place to explore and discover, or a place to be physically active. I can understand the argument that there is more in this world to experience than to repeat the same destination, but when it comes to places like WDW one really needs to keep the comparisons within the same genre. Has WDW really declined or or is it just changing to meet guest expectations?

 

[asianway]

Hmmm.....dropping some book deal hints.....is there something new here? I was following Eddie's thread -- it had some thoughtful discussion, like here. I always felt he was being genuine though his coincidental departure with Tony's window unveiling left me wondering. Your comments make me feel like I missed something.

Everyone has their own idea of where they want to spend their vacations whether they are just a place to relax, a place to explore and discover, or a place to be physically active. I can understand the argument that there is more in this world to experience than to repeat the same destination, but when it comes to places like WDW one really needs to keep the comparisons within the same genre. Has WDW really declined or or is it just changing to meet guest expectations?

Speaking of Crawford...are they about ready to shut down D23 yet? Appears Destination D tix aren't selling like hotcakes

 

[wdisney9000]

I think the issue is.

The thing with the clipper team drama happened in US soil and was blasted very strongly.

What happens with these chains are.. they stay in their own countries.
If they dared to pull a sharia law in the United States and they were caught blasting a woman or similar.. It would cause an even bigger outrage than the clipper team drama IMHO.

Part of my point was that if all the (many) people who were outraged by Sterlings comments wanted REAL change for the world to be a better place, they would be all over this but theyre not. Sterling made racist comments. Nobody was physically injured but every media outlet was all over it. Wheres the compassion for men and woman suffering under sharia law whose leaders are making big bucks on OUR SOIL. It partially shows how biased (or bought and paid for) the media can be. Disney is no doubt aware that the UAE wants to use Disneys family friendly image to clean up their image. A good question is why would Disney take the risk? One big story about this could really do some damage, unless Disney knows that that kind of story will never see the light of day.

 

[Omnispace]

I'd like to think I have some influence on the community. My 'popularity' speaks for itself. But I am no Al Lutz and I have never desired that mantle. Al hit at the perfect time in a much tighter knit, much savvier, much ... well, smarter fan community.

I don't think it would be possible for example to get 98% of fans to agree that Walt had no input whatsoever into the creation of the MK.

Al often had a good three quarters of DLR fans behind his viewpoints and calls for change.

DLR has a base of fans that literally goes back more than half a century. Generations of people (not simply locals either) have taken an ownership of Walt's Park. WDW? ... Um ... no, nothing even close. There are WDW fans that spent hundreds of days at the parks who never knew WDW when it had less than four parks, never knew a WDW without DVC, never knew a WDW where the 'resort' was the whole point, never knew a WDW without pintrading, never knew a WDW without the DDP, never knew a WDW where entertainment offerings were often changed out annually, never knew a WDW where 'suits' actually wore them, never knew a WDW where you didn't depend on bus transportation, never knew a WDW where you could swim in natural lakes, never knew a WDW that didn't have upcharge events, never knew a WDW that just plain was classy and was run by folks who looked to EXCEED GUEST EXPECTATIONS ... nope, a 'WDW fan' who first came in 2000 or 2003 or 2006 (or even some in the 90s) probably looks at critics like me as if we are the crazy ones because they have no clue whatsoever as to what true WDW quality was for decades.

You can have Disco Yeti because the majority of fans who even realize he is non-functional simply don't give a damn and would rather get a picture with Jedi Mickey or buy an Orange Bird tee. And then you have something with WDW today that Al in his heyday never had to deal with in Anaheim: the Lifestylers, the bloggers, the whores. People who will read scripts from Celebration Place that Lovely Leanne (congrats on the nuptials, hun!) and her team wrote word for word. In reality, they aren't out there to spread the word about how MAGICal WDW is or get people to spend there, those are just byproducts. No, they exist to make so much noise (think screaming children on a crowded 737) that critics get drowned out. That is their strategy.

I'd argue that it doesn't work so well when some Spirits have the real world connections to cause trouble and cost a company $$$ for its ignorance and arrogance. But most don't and Disney has deep pockets.

I remember the "Promote Paul Pressler" campaign and the empassioned arguments that went with it. And.... Pressler was promoted, caused even more damage....and moved on to CEO of another company. Al's dialogues not only exposed a sick culture within a single company, they highlighted an entire disfunctional business culture.