The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

pixargal

Well-Known Member
We own AKV DVC and love to stay there. Sitting on the balcony and watching animals come and go is priceless. The night vision goggles experience was interesting.

The parks, though, not so much.

At EPCOT there is nothing I want to ride and the world shops seem to have the same stuff year after year. We have never been to Food and Wine and so we might try that.

At DHS we like the Star Tours ride and the Mermaid show. We were pretty disappointed in Star Wars Weekend. We had an insanely overpriced meal at Hollywood and Vine. I am still muttering about value received for money spent.

At MK I like the retro rides the best. The new show where they project it onto the castle is worth seeing. Also liked the fire breathing dragon.

Haven't been to the AK in a while. There is a shortage of air conditioning and I am sensitive to the heat. My daughter went on the Kilimanjaro Safari and was impressed. When they add nighttime hours, we will reevaluate.

On our next trip we will stay at AKV Kidani and go to Universal to see the Harry Potter additions. We are all excited to ride the Hogwarts Express and see Gringotts Bank.

Speaking of thousands of dollars, it is very easy to spend that much. The magic bands make it even easier. We won't spend that much on our next trip. We are pretty experienced and know how to cut costs. Even with care, it is very expensive. Don't get me started about the dinner at Hollywood and Vine. It won't be pretty.
I agree with your post. We own at BWV, and that keeps us coming back. We eat breakfast in the room and then out for a few hours in the parks. We come back to the resort and hang out by the pool or the community hall. I love the old school video games! We might throw something on the grill and then head over to Epcot to watch Illuminations!
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
I've seen the horsedrawn streetcars run at WDW in the winter in recent years. But I don't remember any of the motor vehicles running. I'm sure they do occasionally, or maybe just one Omnibus or something motorized?

If I remember correctly, they do have the whole fleet (or at least several cars) out in the mornings at rope drop, but as soon as the first mini-parade (what ever the name is? Let's move it it or so????) goes through, everything vanishes and never returns. So, I think they run for 2 hours or so. At least that seems to have been my experience.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
I find it interesting, that those who explain why they are vacationing at WDW, in the majority seem to be DVC owners. If you don't count the purchase price, I do think that this does not fall under what @WDW1974 asked for, as he asked who was willing to spend thousands of dollars.

I do think there is a difference between going to WDW because it is a nice place to escape for a reasonable amount of money, because your accommodation is pre-payed or going on a pricey vacation to WDW.

After a visit back to DL earlier this year (my third after 1992 and 2005) I recently realised that the Disney destination that I find myself planning trips to in my head is indeed DL. Part of that might be that I have spent less time there, but for many years it used to be WDW. So, currently my thinking is that if I end up in Florida to take a cruise on the Disney Fantasy (need to get on one of the new ships!), of course I would want to visit WDW for a few days. But I am no longer sitting here in Germany constantly checking flight prices to Orlando hoping for some deals to come out. I find myself watching flight prices to LAX instead.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
A Spirited serious question to all the folks who still have pixie dust in their eyes: what currently going on at WDW has you excited enough to burn through thousands of dollars by visiting in 2014 or 2015?
I go because:
  1. If I wait till the perfect time, my kids will be grown and gone.
  2. Gives me something throughout the year to look to.
  3. My DW, not the most spontaneous traveler, likes the "bag on plane and your there" lower planning aspect.
  4. In spite of manifest short comings, it is still fun.
  5. And...... Universal.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why anyone needs to explain or justify their choice of vacation destination.

I don't see people's answers as that they feel they need to justify themselves, but just generally giving an answer as to their motivation. I find it interesting to read everyone's replies. Makes for an interesting topic of discussion and is also nice to get some more background to the regulars on these threads. :)
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Globally, Disney spends a ton of cash on maintenance, with the largest amount going to WDW.

The question is whether Disney spends enough.

Recalling what CFO Jay Rasulo said about investments in 2011:

“Five years ago or so we used to be pretty demonstrative about $1 billion number being an ongoing level without special projects added to it.

"You have to remember though that in those five years in the capital projects that we have put in the ground, which each have their own growth strategy, each is filling in different parts of the portfolio, when they are back on board they all need ongoing FF&E and maintenance capital to keep them going.​

"So I would say that that $1 billion number is low.”​

With baseline capex at $1B back in 2006 along with inflation and the additional projects brought online since 2006, today’s Furniture, Fixtures and Equipment (FF&E) may very well be over $2B. Most of today's "investments" consist of basic maintenance, not "special projects". Whether $2B is enough for maintenance depends on what you think about quality at the parks.

Looking more closely at 2013, total company investments (which includes FF&E) were $2.8B. With FF&E approaching $2B, total annual revenue at $45B, and Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue at $14B, it's apparent that the budget for all "special projects" (e.g. Pandora) being shared across all company segments is comparatively small. In 2013, Disney spent 6% of total revenue and 20% of P&R revenue on "investments", most of that simply on maintenance.

For comparison, in 1974 with company revenue at $430M and P&R revenue at $280M, total investments were $67M, 16% of company revenue and 24% of P&R revenue. The 1970s were a difficult period for Disney, with an energy crisis severely impacting travel, and they had cut back tremendously on investments in an effort to keep the company afloat.

In 1983, the year after Epcot opened, Disney invested heavily in P&R. Corporately, there was a sense that WDW was the Disney brothers final legacy and a real commitment to seeing it turned into a complete resort. Until Eisner joined in 1984, Disney effectively had become a theme park company. With company revenue at $1.3B and Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue at $1.0B, total investments were $418M, 32% of company revenue and 42% of P&R revenue.

In 1994, Disney was in the middle of the "Disney Decade". With company revenue at $10.1B and Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue at $3.5B, total investments were $2.9B, 29% of company revenue and 83% of P&R revenue.

In 2004, P&R still was suffering from a post-9/11 economy. (Things began to improve at the parks in 2005 with the introduction of the less expensive Magic Your Way ticket and Disney's Magical Express.) With company revenue at $30.8B and Parks & Resorts (P&R) revenue at $7.8B, total investments were $1.4B, 5% of company revenue and 18% of P&R revenue.

(In case anyone wonders why I picked these years, I wanted to do 10-year increments but don't have complete data for every year. These years are approximately 10 years apart.)

As has been true ever since DLR opened in 1955, the lion's share of investments have been in P&R. For example, in 2013, Disney spent $1.14B domestically plus another $970M internationally in P&R, for a total of $2.11B. (Recall that total investments for the year were $2.8B.) The resorts really are tremendous physical assets requiring constant capital.

What sticks out is the jump in total revenue after Eisner joined in 1984. When Eisner was brought on board, Disney's only successful segment was P&R. After that, the company as a whole began firing on all cylinders. Eisner (along with significant contributions from others) really did lead the effort to save Disney.

Still, Eisner invested heavily in the theme parks. Under Eisner, there were several years when annual investments exceeded $5B. This was in absolute dollars. In inflation-adjusted dollars, this was over $8B. Those of us who saw WDW expand tremendously during the "Disney Decade" know that a lot was spent in Orlando.

Just imagine what could be happening at WDW today if Disney was investing closer to $8B annually.

What also sticks out is that P&R investments have plummeted. Prior to 9/11, Disney was not afraid to spend big at the theme parks. Understandably, P&R investments collapsed in the post-9/11 economy, when travel and all vacation destinations were adversely impacted. However, it appears corporate attitudes never changed as the economy recovered.

When it comes to P&R investments, Disney's current senior executive management still operates like it's 2002.

Thanks for breaking it down. I would think that the more sizeable decrease in spending occurred after 2006. It seems like an arbitrary time frame globally, but it was a significant period of change for the company. You had Soarin', Everest and Lights Motors Action all coming online around the same time as the Disney Dining Plan, Magical Express and Magic Your Way Tickets. Since then, you've had Toy Story Mania and New Fantasyland for major additions.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Just think, in a week and a half, TPFKaTD-MGMS will go back to being dead beyond 2-3 attractions.
The park has 4 excellent rides. There's no need to downplay it when that's the best thing you can say about it.
I know I've asked this and not gotten one response, but has anyone heard of a Lifestyler giving up their Premier Pass now that it is $1,029? Anyone ...
I did not renew mine, and have no plans to buy a new one. I will however be staying on site at Universal and possibly be buying a USO AP in September.
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
A Spirited serious question to all the folks who still have pixie dust in their eyes: what currently going on at WDW has you excited enough to burn through thousands of dollars by visiting in 2014 or 2015?

Short answer, nothing.

This is a question that I revisit frequently--and so does my family. As I make no secret to hide, even though I'm frustrated I still have a crumb of pixie dust in the corner of my, hm, left eye that I can't quite dislodge. Just one crumb.

So, the reason to go back would be, well, just to go back.

That said--we have no plans to do so. We've been a lot, and to directly answer your question, no, there's nothing going on over the next two years that's interesting enough. They made some sort of error in not having anything on the slate for a couple years.

If we did go back--it would be to see Potter. Tough to figure out how we'd work in some Disney days, but because of that damn crumb, it would be tough to go down there and NOT go. But we might. And we definitely wouldn't stay on property, even though 'that's the way we've always done it.'

My whole family feels this way. NFL does not have enough pull to make us want/need to go back.
A new home for the Lion King doesn't. A Frozen overlay? Nope. A new Soarin' movie? Nope. The thing that drives desire to return are E-Tickets. Must-rides. Must-sees. 'How did they do that?' Technological breakthroughs. NEW stuff.

Trying to placate the crumb means we might consider DisneyLand. I haven't seen CarsLand, and I have wanted my family to see World of Color, I was there on business alone and thought that was incredible.
So that might be in the cards. Disney P&R will probably get some of my money along the way.

We will definitely go in '17 to see Pandora, and all the other DAK enhancements. And maybe, just maybe, there'll be something Star Wars going on by then(probably just under construction).

Between now and then, it's a crapshoot. I won't say we won't go, but I will say we have no plans and feel no pull to do so.

One caveat. If maintenance and service increased by a large leap. If I heard from you that the parks were back to providing DCL-type service. If the Yeti were fixed. If Roger Rabbit's silhouette were repaired. If all the incredible attention to detail and show were returned to the way they captured me
in the first place--I might go just to see it, feel it, be in it again. To applaud the extra spending and initiative it would take to raise the guest experience to its former glory. That, in itself, is an E-ticket,
and it's a shame it's been bulldozed. (But in the meantime, I know I can get some of that at DisneyLand(
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Thanks for breaking it down. I would think that the more sizeable decrease in spending occurred after 2006. It seems like an arbitrary time frame globally, but it was a significant period of change for the company. You had Soarin', Everest and Lights Motors Action all coming online around the same time as the Disney Dining Plan, Magical Express and Magic Your Way Tickets. Since then, you've had Toy Story Mania and New Fantasyland for major additions.
For the years that I have data, Disney’s 4 lowest years of capital investment as a percentage of P&R revenue all have been under Iger, who took charge in 2005 (only 8 full fiscal years so far). These 4 years were below 2002-2004 investment levels, when WDW was shuttering hotels and laying off hundreds.

Examining this more closely, Iger’s single year of largest capital investment as a percentage of P&R revenue is only about half the average under Eisner. Eisner started the cuts that lead to the decline in WDW quality but he also invested in the resorts like no other Disney CEO.

I’m pretty sure there were a few years in the mid-1970s when investments were lower, but there was an oil crisis and Disney was pooling its money for the huge EPCOT investment.

Today we think of Disney as a corporate megalith but the Disney of the 1970s was a modestly-sized company. At the time, EPCOT’s total cost was going to be something like the equivalent of 2 full years of company-wide revenue. For perspective, just imagine today’s Disney with $45B in annual revenue building a $90B theme park.

Disney’s bold decision in the late 1970s to start construction on EPCOT was roundly criticized by Wall Street, yet Disney has been cashing in on that wise investment for decades.

Frankly, if most companies listened to Wall Street, nothing would ever get built. Instead, companies would spend most of their capital buying back stock and acquiring other companies.

As @rael ramone mentioned earlier, Disney has been spending billions buying back stock. We also know they've spent billions buying Pixar, Marvel, and LucasArts.

We know who Iger listens to. :(
 
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ChrisFL

Premium Member
I was thinking about it the other day...it may have been a miracle that we got EPCOT Center at all, even without it being in Walt's city form...it was such a huge undertaking based on the ideals of the man who had been dead for 16 years by the time it opened. It really took an enormous effort, several re-designs and massive cost, but it did happen.
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why anyone needs to explain or justify their choice of vacation destination.

No one needs to, of course. I take it as, this is a Disney fan site, what's the general attitude towards the next couple of years at WDW? Just a conversation starter, a poll to take the temp. of the community.

Seemed like a good topic to me, and it's been interesting to think about, and to read other people's responses.
 

dupac

Well-Known Member
We're not going back. The money we would spend going to WDW is either going to a trip to DL with my parents and sibs (which would be our first time farther west than Breck, CO) or being added to for a first time trip to Munich for my hubs and me. :D

I know WDW holds special memories for us, but in our mind, why not go make new special memories in other places too?
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
We're not going back. The money we would spend going to WDW is either going to a trip to DL with my parents and sibs (which would be our first time farther west than Breck, CO) or being added to for a first time trip to Munich for my hubs and me. :D

I know WDW holds special memories for us, but in our mind, why not go make new special memories in other places too?
As an adult, I grew up wot the simpsons. Even though the simpsons addition to universal doesn't draw a lot of attention, I was as happy there, in moes, as I have ever been anywhere in disney for the past 15 years.
 

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