The Spirited Back Nine ...

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
Really? I stood there and watched my mother come to tears after seeing the condition of Pop Century. Who is she? She was on the opening day crew that trained Cm's. She refers to it as "her resort". If there is one area of WDW where I feel I might have some "inside" knowledge is maintenance and janitorial. Both my mother and her husband were CM's in those areas at one time or another. My mother had 20 years in the company working in as many as a dozen different jobs from working as a concierge to renting strollers and everything in between. Her husband worked in maintenance and janitorial.....he had 18 years of service. Between them both...that's 38 years! I think they are more of an authority then just about anyone here.

Food quality? Again.....really? There was a time when at all the resorts had a chef that was always present and constructed the menu. A simple hamburger was cooked to order. Now? Precooked and reheated. That's better? Most of the restaurants have basically the same generic menu. Is it possible to get a good meal on property? absolutely...at an exorbitant cost. The DDP and its effect on the menus have been well documented here. When the DDP started you received an appetizer, entre, desert and the tip was included. Now you get a entre and a joke of a desert. That's it! That's better?

Any worse? I seen a puddle of coca cola lay and dry up in a resort elevator for FOUR days! I know for a fact that most maintenance crews have been cut. How can this result in the same quality of cleanliness? The majority of maintenance is now contracted out.

Your right everyone can have their opinion but it doesn't make it a correct one.
It's funny you mention the condition of Pop. I feel like Disney hasn't done room refurbs of their value resorts in... have they ever? I mean, I know they are the "value" resorts, but still, everything needs a little TLC every now and then.

Honestly, i'm surprised they haven't gone through with retheming Pop! to another side of AoA... Do something like Frozen, Tangled, Wreck-it Ralph and Big Hero 6 (if BH6 is popular) as the franchises for the sister hotel. That gives 2 princess properties and 2 "boy" properties and they're all recent and successful films.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion that WDW is the number 1 theme park (in the U.S.? in the world?). However, @ParentsOf4 can explain better than anyone else here that posters' reactions to current WDW hotel pricing strategy are in no way based on the company "not pricing things the way we want" but rather on recognition that the current strategy is unsustainable and is greatly hindering occupancy rates. Pricing is a science, but WDW is using that science to realize short-term gains over long-term company health. It's like starving yourself for a month to fit into an outfit for a party with no thought to the overall repercussions to your body.
Actually, the fact that pricing affects occupancy needn't have any complicated analysis behind it. Obviously it will. @ParentsOf4 can provide arguments and explanation supporting THAT, but he cannot provide evidence as to what causes "posters' reactions" on this site. Indeed, my reaction to Disney pricing has nothing at all to do with a belief that the current strategy is unsustainable. As smart as I am, I don't think I know better than the people with all the information at their fingertips what pricing strategies are sustainable or not. My reaction to Disney's pricing strategy on hotels is simply that I don't believe Disney's deluxe or moderate resorts are worth the price they are charging (the value resorts aren't up to the level of comfort I look for). However, it is clear that plenty of others think differently, as they are staying at those hotels and paying those rates.

Also, as an Economics major, and an accountant, I would suggest that while setting prices is a science in some ways, customer reactions are not. The numbers can tell you a lot, but they don't turn customer satisfaction or profit maximization into a science.
 

RivieraJenn

Well-Known Member
Actually, the fact that pricing affects occupancy needn't have any complicated analysis behind it. Obviously it will. @ParentsOf4 can provide arguments and explanation supporting THAT, but he cannot provide evidence as to what causes "posters' reactions" on this site. Indeed, my reaction to Disney pricing has nothing at all to do with a belief that the current strategy is unsustainable. As smart as I am, I don't think I know better than the people with all the information at their fingertips what pricing strategies are sustainable or not. My reaction to Disney's pricing strategy on hotels is simply that I don't believe Disney's deluxe or moderate resorts are worth the price they are charging (the value resorts aren't up to the level of comfort I look for). However, it is clear that plenty of others think differently, as they are staying at those hotels and paying those rates.

Also, as an Economics major, and an accountant, I would suggest that while setting prices is a science in some ways, customer reactions are not. The numbers can tell you a lot, but they don't turn customer satisfaction or profit maximization into a science.

Fair enough. But the allegation I was responding to from xstech25 was that people are "angry" because they can't afford/don't like the current pricing. It is my observation that the majority of posters here are not angry about that--they are largely informed consumers who are angry at Disney's short-sighted business practices. I would say many (myself included) agree with your opinion that the resorts are not worth the current rates. The solution to that is easy--don't stay there. Many of us do not. But the reason, as far as I can tell, we keep DISCUSSING these things is that we recognize how detrimental they are to the overall operation, and we wouldn't be spending time on this forum if we didn't care about WDW as a whole. Reducing the discussion to an allegation of sour grapes shows a willful disregard for the actual issues at hand.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
we recognize how detrimental they are to the overall operation.
Except that we (or you) don't "recognize how detrimental they are". That implies that it is an observable fact that they are detrimental. Instead, we (you) believe/contend/conclude that they are detrimental "to the overall operation".

The people making the decisions don't believe that, or they wouldn't be making those decisions. And those people have far more information than I or you or @ParentsOf4. That doesn't mean the people making the pricing decisions are right, of course, but they have a better chance of being right than those without the information (you and I) do.

We are in a position to say, however, that we don't like the prices, as you and I have both done.
 
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Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
what? You thought Disney was going to replace Backlot tour with an E-ticket?
Anyone who thought that only have themselves to blame for their disappointment. I said it before, I will say it again. When it comes time for WDW, expect nothing to less than nothing and Disney will never disappoint. Expect nice, big, lavish toys, and well, you'll always be disappointed, with Disney and WDW.
 

EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
Either that, or TDO needs to pay up to redesign their pyro shows to avoid the major new attractions now operating underneath the fallout zone.

I have a glassy house on a hill in Villa Park, California where most rooms have windows that face Disneyland a few miles due west. For the last two decades I have seen the fireworks every night I'm at home, and Disneyland cancels fireworks either beforehand, or mid-show, about 10 to 20 nights per year due to wind. When was the last time we heard that Magic Kingdom cancelled their fireworks show due to "unfavorable wind conditions at higher elevations" (that's the in-park spiel that plays at Disneyland on windy nights)?

As for flying overseas, I'm actually more comfortable flying in a jet overseas than I am over land. If it's a Boeing, the plane has a dramatically better chance of making a surviveable crash landing on water than it does on land. I only fly Boeing planes, mainly 777's or 747's, when it's time to go overseas for that exact reason. William Boeing made a point of over-engineering his aircraft to survive water landings. Other plane manufacturers, notably Airbus, never put as much effort into designing their aircraft to survive a water landing.

That said, even a lowly Airbus can survive a water landing nicely when the pilot knows what he is doing.
us_airways_plane_crash_hudson_river_nyc_6.jpg


And if you are going to Tokyo Disneyland, you absolutely must fly JAL or Singapore! If you fly a US airline to Japan, you are doing it wrong.

I'm far more comfortable shooting through the stratosphere at 600 miles per hour when the plane is over water. So much so that I have the stewardess stop bringing me drinks after my second, so that I can coherently put the life vest on and jump overboard and swim to the raft without drunk drowning.

But when the flight is over land? We're all gonna die, so I'll have another Scotch, please! :cool:
Two of my friends were on this flight.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
It's funny you mention the condition of Pop. I feel like Disney hasn't done room refurbs of their value resorts in... have they ever? I mean, I know they are the "value" resorts, but still, everything needs a little TLC every now and then.

Honestly, i'm surprised they haven't gone through with retheming Pop! to another side of AoA... Do something like Frozen, Tangled, Wreck-it Ralph and Big Hero 6 (if BH6 is popular) as the franchises for the sister hotel. That gives 2 princess properties and 2 "boy" properties and they're all recent and successful films.
Pop!'s already got quite a few movies scattered around it what with Jungle Book, Lady and the Tramp and Roger Rabbit being particularly prominent. Just embellish and build on that, replace the non-Disney movie junk (perhaps recycling the Pac-Man ghosts on the 80s building for a new Wreck It Ralph area) and there you go.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Once again, why is there another doom and gloom session over TSPL? This does not preclude anything else coming to DHS, it's just the first/quickest addition along with the third track. We knew this weeks ago... Then Spirit told us again, and now we are on the third cycle.

The only thing MiceAge revealed was that a Toy Story version of Junkyard Jamboree is likely replacing the Parachute Drop... which is actually a very good thing since it's a way better flat ride...

Woody's Roundup I 'reckon.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
Miceage has triple confirmed that the backlot tour is being replaced with Toy Story Playland and one of the rides will be a re-themed clone of the cars land favorite.....Mater's Junkyard Jamboree


what? You thought Disney was going to replace Backlot tour with an E-ticket?
No, it wasn't logical to think the E-ticket would come in the first round of expansion, as that isn't what DHS is most in need of. DHS is most in need of...exactly what they seem to be building -- family Bs and Cs. 3 or 4 of those can be built quickly, will provide capacity (although not as much as is needed), and will give families more to do in a park that has too few rides for those who don't like thrills. It's not a flashy first phase, but it is the one that makes the most sense.

Of course, if they stop at Toy Story Playland-type stuff and don't do more with DHS, that'll be criminal.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
Once again, why is there another doom and gloom session over TSPL? This does not preclude anything else coming to DHS, it's just the first/quickest addition along with the third track. We knew this weeks ago... Then Spirit told us again, and now we are on the third cycle.

The only thing MiceAge revealed was that a Toy Story version of Junkyard Jamboree is likely replacing the Parachute Drop... which is actually a very good thing since it's a way better flat ride...

Woody's Roundup I 'reckon.
Indeed, having experienced TSPL in Paris, the visuals and atmosphere are absolutely wonderful, especially at night, RC Racer is a lot fun (but needs a dual track for capacity), slinky dog is a perfectly passable flat ride, and the parachute drop is meh at best. MJJ, on the other hand, is an excellent flat ride, so it is a significant upgrade. Indeed, the only real problem with TSPL in Paris is that there is no headliner attraction. TSMM fixes that problem.
 
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tribbleorlfl

Well-Known Member
Also, as an Economics major, and an accountant, I would suggest that while setting prices is a science in some ways, customer reactions are not. The numbers can tell you a lot, but they don't turn customer satisfaction or profit maximization into a science.
Fellow Economist here, and you said basically what I was going to say. I work in the pricing area for a large insurance company and we have a saying: "Pricing is equal parts art and science." While there are corporate requirements (and in my case, statutory requirements) for profit, target growth and reserves that need to be accounted for, there are other considerations that simply cannot be boiled down into quantifiable formulae. Usually "getting creative" means going out at a lower cost, but not always.

Not that I agree with the DVC strategy of converting surplus rooms or think the value of the Moderates and Deluxes is there at current prices, but it's entirely possible that their overall pricing models show that the additional occupancy resulting from lower prices might not actually yield higher revenue or profit. I can only begin to imagine what the elasticity is like.
 

TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
Anyone who thought that only have themselves to blame for their disappointment. I said it before, I will say it again. When it comes time for WDW, expect nothing to less than nothing and Disney will never disappoint. Expect nice, big, lavish toys, and well, you'll always be disappointed, with Disney and WDW.
Well, it's always nice to dream. Of course, I also like to dream I'll win the lottery, and I'm sure you all can guess how far that's gotten me.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Except that we (or you) don't "recognize how detrimental they are". That implies that it is an observable fact that they are detrimental. Instead, we (you) believe/contend/conclude that they are detrimental "to the overall operation".

The people making the decisions don't believe that, or they wouldn't be making those decisions. And those people have far more information that I or you or @ParentsOf4. That doesn't mean the people making the pricing decisions are right, of course, but they have a better chance of being right than those without the information (you and I) do.

We are in a position to say, however, that we don't like the prices, as you and I have both done.
Gobs of data notwithstanding, product pricing always has been a bit of an art form. It's about trial-and-error more than anything else. Reams of data and market analyses often don't present an accurate account of how the public will react to a new pricing scheme.

The people making pricing decisions at Disney are no different. They are guessing too. Some might pretend to understand the public but, as so many of us have seen with the many meaningless surveys Disney likes to conduct, data can be massaged to tell all sorts of stories. If the CEO says, "I'm thinking about raising prices. I want you to conduct a survey to determine if the market will support higher prices", I can pretty much guarantee you that any corporate climber worth her or his salt is going to produce a survey whose results are: "Boss, you are a genius. The market will support higher prices." :D

Not that I have any first-hand experience with this sort of thing. ;)

Only someone who wants to have a run-in with the SEC would admit to having private data showing that WDW prices are reaching a tipping point. However, I have written posts analyzing publically available data suggesting just that.

I've also suggested that WDW's pricing strategy for 2014 reflects Disney's recognition of this trend, and that Disney has started to adopt their pricing accordingly.

2015 should offer better news for the WDW consumer than 2011-2013 did. :)
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
Not that I have any first-hand experience with this sort of thing. ;)

Only someone who wants to have a run-in with the SEC would admit to having private data showing that WDW prices are reaching a tipping point. However, I have written posts analyzing publically available data suggesting just that.
I might have experience in run-ins with the SEC.

But from the safer side of the run-in.
 

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