The Spirited Back Nine ...

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
the 5 meters away trashcan is just TOO FAR AWAY for their precious.
This is the type of thing that I wonder if it's a more recent attitude. I never visited the parks before the mid 90's, so I can't speak for myself, but were guests in the earlier days of WDW so lazy that they would litter rather than walk 5 feet to a trash bin or hold onto the trash until they reach the next bin in the queue? Because that isn't even an exaggeration. In every queue on a busy day you will see litter just a few feet from trash bins.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
Im assuming that thing was frosted in sarcasm the was so many mid-20 year old elsas woke up frosted this morning...
No, i'm serious as anything. The only thing "wrong" with DAK is Chester/Hester. Epcot has Imagination (Starring Captain EO!), UoE, and closed pavillions which could all be fixed with a good amount of money put into the park.

I'm not say, however, that DAK doesn't need a lot of money poured into it though. My original statement was saying that it is generally in great shape going forward, it just needs massive expansion. I really don't see how people can look at DAK and say that it has "problems". It's only problem is being under built (besides of course the previously mention Chester/Hester area).
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
This is the type of thing that I wonder if it's a more recent attitude. I never visited the parks before the mid 90's, so I can't speak for myself, but were guests in the earlier days of WDW so lazy that they would litter rather than walk 5 feet to a trash bin or hold onto the trash until they reach the next bin in the queue? Because that isn't even an exaggeration. In every queue on a busy day you will see litter just a few feet from trash bins.
Yes. And the 80s too. Popcorn used to be everywhere. Like those ghost dog leashes. I do remember more CMs moving throughout the queues, though. And there always seemed to be a nearby custodian sweeping up the messes. And they'd actually smile and say hello. That's one thing I noticed on my recent trips.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I agree that they need to add more resources to park maintenance. The question was whether the issues now are based on lack of resources or cleanliness of park guests

A question (posed by you..) that means nothing to the end game. It doesn't matter if it's guests or Disney failing... it's Disney's job to maintain the standard.

If someone moves into your house and therefore you start making more trash than you did before... If the trash can is overflowing and your house is a mess... you can't say "well, its because we are making more trash now... not my fault" - No, your job was to adapt to the new situation and take the trash out more often than you did before because that is what is necessary to maintain a level of cleanliness.

If guests are worse now, then Disney will need to work harder to maintain the same outcome. The outcome is what matters, and it's Disney's job to protect.

By ignoring the slobs and letting the scene fester... they are complacent.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
This is the type of thing that I wonder if it's a more recent attitude. I never visited the parks before the mid 90's, so I can't speak for myself, but were guests in the earlier days of WDW so lazy that they would litter rather than walk 5 feet to a trash bin or hold onto the trash until they reach the next bin in the queue? Because that isn't even an exaggeration. In every queue on a busy day you will see litter just a few feet from trash bins.
No, they did not or, at least, not to the extent that they do now.

There was another more subtle reason why the park grounds were cleaner back then as well. They had a huge staff of people that were out there, mostly in stealth mode, that would be ready to pick up that cigarette butt the second it hit the ground. You could smoke anywhere back then. You didn't see anyone but a cigarette would drop and instantly someone was there with the needed equipment to pick it up right away. When designated areas were established the crew was sent home. They also picked up stuff other then cigarettes as well, but, it wasn't as much as now.

Of course, it has to be considered that there weren't as many Guests at any given time then either, but, I remember that everyone I knew were much more conscience of litter and tried to keep things clean. Now they pay a fortune to get in so the heck with them, let Disney pick it up.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Dang, if Hunny Hunt is "only" a D-Ticket, what is Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh? AAA-Ticket?

I know it's subjective, but I don't see any way Hunny Hunt isn't an E-Ticket. It's not drawing 90+ minute waits solely on the account of the 5 North American fans who visit TDL in any given day...

With that said, I would also expect Frozen to be on a grander scale. In part because I'd expect it to be longer, in part because some technical progress has been made in the 15 years since Hunny Hunt opened.

That's kind of why I'd actually classify it as a D+... it's NOT meant to be an insult against Pooh, quite the contrary. In my mind it's a classic D-ticket Fantasyland ride on steroids. Fantastic new technology was employed, top notch AA's, a massive budget spent on it too.

I personally don't use the ticket classification system based on how "good" a ride is, the wait times it draws, etc. Rather the general scope and purpose it fulfills as part of the land its placed into. It's still a relatively short ride, consisting of primary 5-6 main scenes (two of which are major). A simple, but well themed queue accompanies the experience, not necessitating a pre-show. Small World next door is the E-ticket of the land, even if in its current state, it's actually a worse ride than Hunny Hunt.

Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh is also a D-ticket, they fulfill the same purpose. It however is a mediocre D-ticket, while Hunny Hunt is a world-class D(+)-ticket that clearly had a much larger budget.

It doesn't particularly matter though how I classify it, other than fulfilling expectations/a subjective matter of opinion. If you expect Hunny Hunt to be on the same level as Mystic Manor, it isn't. But, that's not fair to Hunny Hunt in the least. It's meant to be a Fantasyland classic dark ride, with a lavish budget, while Mystic Manor is a headliner of a land. With those expectations for each, they are equally amazing at fulfilling their purpose.
 

John

Well-Known Member
Cleanliness and maintenance, something I can speak about with a level of inside knowledge were it comes to WDW. I have family and friends who were CM's that worked in this area. Its a combination of everything that has been mentioned here in the thread so far.

The biggest reason is Disney itself. @flynnibus is correct the final product is up to Disney, its their fault it has come to this level.

Guest are different, their attitudes are different. You don't have to look no further then the way people dress now versus then. People dress with no self respect. Nor do they act with much respect. There is no doubt that people today have a much more self entitled attitude. They treat the parks the same way.

One of the biggest differences is maintenance and up keep staff. There was a time when most CM's were long time employees ( I know, my mother was one ) They had a vested interest in the parks/company. They made a decent salary, they had wonderful benefits. They were treated like family. The company cared about them and they cared about the company. Those CM's are long gone. Now most front line CM's are CP, seasonal ect. Maintenance is contracted out to a subcontractor. They have no stake in the company. Painting, electrical, cleaning and other services are contracted out. They do it as fast as they can and out the door. People complain about light bulbs being burned out. Paint being chipped. The front line managers fill out a form then when TDO has a certain amount of forms they contract out the work. They no longer have crews who work around the clock to keep up the place.

Why? we all know why.....MONEY.......Profits......stock value.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
I don't know what a new "show set" might mean for GMR, but I do have to admit that I might not be completely against a Star Wars scene replacing Alien if done correctly. Specifically a recreation of THIS iconic scene from Empire Strikes Back (ESB has well earned its place as a great classic movie, and it's generally agreed to be the best in the series)-
Lukevaderesb.png


A pair of impressive Luke and Vader animatronics dueling could be super awesome to look at. Something similar to this was actually done in Disneyland Paris' version of Pirates of the Caribbean, there's a new scene exclusive to that version of the ride where a pirate and a guy from the town (who almost looks like the inspiration for William Turner) have a sword fight. It's rather impressive even to this day, and that was a ride built over 22 years ago. I could totally see a lightsaber battle using the same sort of AA technology to make it look like they're really fighting (perhaps with even newer AA tech).
I made the same suggestion a few weeks ago but was shot down...someone that thought Alien was more relevant than SW.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Maybe this is too philosophical of a discussion, but weren't those jobs always minimum wage or close to it? Maybe it's because minimum wage isn't enough to live on today. In the 80s or 90s when WDW was exceptionally clean did the people working there have any real incentive to do their job well?

I considered posting this in the thread about wages, but didn't really want to get involved in that thread. I found this Orlando Sentinel article years ago, in a previous battle about WDW wages on another forum. It's from 1989, Disney was advertising a hiring blitz prior to the opening of the Studios, Pleasure Island and the new resorts and a starting wage of $5.05. At that time, minimum wage was $3.35 and in 1990, it was raised to 3.80. So no, WDW wages, weren't always close to minimum wage. That 1989 wage, was 50% more than minimum wage.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_walt-disney-disney-world-disney-characters

Somewhere in some hard copy files, I have some statistics about pay from like 1980 for Disneyland, and I don't remember what it was, but I have a memory of it corresponding to like $20-$25 an hour in current wages. There was a huge philosophical shift on CM pay in the 90's.
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
I considered posting this in the thread about wages, but didn't really want to get involved in that thread. I found this Orlando Sentinel article years ago, in a previous battle about WDW wages on another forum. It's from 1989, Disney was advertising a hiring blitz prior to the opening of the Studios, Pleasure Island and the new resorts and a starting wage of $5.05. At that time, minimum wage was $3.35 and in 1990, it was raised to 3.80. So no, WDW wages, weren't always close to minimum wage. That 1989 wage, was 50% more than minimum wage.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_walt-disney-disney-world-disney-characters

Somewhere in some hard copy files, I have some statistics about pay from like 1980 for Disneyland, and I don't remember what it was, but I have a memory of it corresponding to like $20-$25 an hour in current wages. There was a huge philosophical shift on CM pay in the 90's.


I dont think disney paid quite that high in the 80s (adjusted for inflation, I'm assuming you mean) but they did certainly offer better benefits, perks, insurances, etc than they do now.
 

Cody5294

Well-Known Member
It seems like this is the most busiest food and wine year I've been too. Can anyone confirm that this is the most popular year?
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I considered posting this in the thread about wages, but didn't really want to get involved in that thread. I found this Orlando Sentinel article years ago, in a previous battle about WDW wages on another forum. It's from 1989, Disney was advertising a hiring blitz prior to the opening of the Studios, Pleasure Island and the new resorts and a starting wage of $5.05. At that time, minimum wage was $3.35 and in 1990, it was raised to 3.80. So no, WDW wages, weren't always close to minimum wage. That 1989 wage, was 50% more than minimum wage.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_walt-disney-disney-world-disney-characters

Somewhere in some hard copy files, I have some statistics about pay from like 1980 for Disneyland, and I don't remember what it was, but I have a memory of it corresponding to like $20-$25 an hour in current wages. There was a huge philosophical shift on CM pay in the 90's.
didnt they moved a big chunk of their basic workforce towards university students?
 

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