The Spirited Back Nine ...

[ParentsOf4]

I am not denying the WDW has changed and for the worst and I agree about the $$. My family has decided to avoid WDW until things change.

However, people have changed. They are less oriented on the group as a whole, are more focused on pleasing themselves and to heck with anyone else, and expect everything immediately. While people may have always felt like acting this way, it seems like people voice it and act on it more today than in the past.

I assure you that what you write ("people ... are more focused on pleasing themselves") happened decades ago. There's a reason Baby Boomers sometimes are called the "Me Generation".

The term was coined in the 1970s and pretty much everything you write was written back then too. Basic human DNA has not appreciably changed in 40 years, or even 4000 years. When it comes to human nature, the expression "there's nothing new under the sun" applies just as much today as it did in the 1970s.

What has changed is society, particularly its institutions. People react to their surroundings and how they are being treated by the government, businesses, etc.

As is frequently reported in the newspapers, there hasn't been such a large separation between The Haves and The Have Nots since the Great Depression. Wages have stagnated while CEOs such as Disney's own Bob Iger collect tens-of-millions and adopt business strategies designed to increase the concentration of wealth among The Chosen Few: higher prices for the masses, far outpacing their growth in income, while wasting net income on tens-of-billions in stock buybacks, providing immediate financial gains to those already owning Disney's $150 billion in stock while returning nothing back into the economy to build for the future.

If people seem to be reacting differently today, then it's because they are being treated differently today.

In the 1970s, WDW was a beacon of happiness exactly because it was like no other place. Roy Disney and Card Walker believed in Walt Disney's vision. They believed in Walt's commitment to providing quality family entertainment at reasonable prices.

When Michael Eisner took charge in 1984, he largely left the parks alone because they were the only division within Walt Disney Productions (soon to be renamed The Walt Disney Company) that was highly profitable. Disney's parks provided outstanding quality at reasonable prices, defying conventional business wisdom.

It wasn't until the mid-1990s that Eisner (and Frank Wells) began to interfere with Walt's winning formula. Still, Disney's theme parks provided relatively good quality at relatively good prices for another decade.

The wheels fell off the Parks & Resorts wagon in the early 2000s when Paul Pressler (immediately followed by Jay Rasulo) became Chairman of Parks & Resorts and began to manage the parks "by the numbers", rather than understanding why the parks had been financially successful for decades.

People have not changed.

The way people are treated at the theme parks has changed.

 

[WildcatDen]

I don't mean to make custodial's life any harder as it's not the greatest job in WDW, but I suspect they're not trained to go around scrubbing dirt off and looking for things to make the park sparkle. If that was made as much a priority as any code-V, that might help reduce the maintenance burden a little.

Back in the day, King's Island used to have an ARMY of Litter Getter's. You saw them everywhere all day with their little brooms and dust pan thingies. Now, you are lucky if you see one at all. Of course, you used to have the clown band as well. . . ahhh, the good old days!

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

I assure you that what you write ("people ... are more focused on pleasing themselves") happened decades ago. There's a reason Baby Boomers sometimes are called the "Me Generation".

The term was coined in the 1970s and pretty much everything you write was written back then too. Basic human DNA has not appreciably changed in 40 years, or even 4000 years. When it comes to human nature, the expression "there's nothing new under the sun" applies just as much today as it did in the 1970s.

What has changed is society, particular its institutions. People react to their surroundings and how they are being treated by the government, businesses, etc.

As frequently is reported in the newspapers, there hasn't been such a separation between The Haves and The Have Nots since the Great Depression. Wages have stagnated while CEOs such a Disney's own Bob Iger collect tens-of-millions and adopt business strategies designed to increase the concentration of wealth among The Chosen Few: higher prices for the masses, far outpacing their growth in income while wasting net income on tens-of-billions in stock buybacks, providing immediate financial gains to those already owning Disney's $150 billion in stock while returning nothing back into the economy to build for the future.

If people seem to be reacting differently today it's because they are being treated differently today.

In the 1970s, WDW was a beacon of happiness exactly because it was like no other place. Roy Disney and Card Walker believed in Walt Disney's vision. They believed in Walt's commitment to providing quality family entertainment at a reasonable price.

When Michael Eisner took charge in 1984, he largely left the parks alone because they were the only division within Walt Disney Productions (soon to be renamed The Walt Disney Company) that was highly profitable. Disney's parks provided outstanding quality at reasonable prices, defying conventional business wisdom.

It wasn't until the mid-1990s that Eisner (and Frank Wells) began to interfere with Walt's winning formula. Still, Disney's theme parks provided relatively good quality at relatively good prices for another decade.

The wheels fell off Disney's Parks & Resorts in the early 2000s when Paul Pressler (immediately followed by Jay Rasulo) became Chairman of Parks & Resorts and began to manage the parks "by the numbers", rather than understanding why the parks had been financially successful for decades.

People have not changed.

The way people are treated at the theme parks has changed.

I think I need an automatic like button for all your post.

 

[WildcatDen]

You could live on those wages back then, more specifically at Disney. And the wages haven't kept up with inflation or cost of living... while their bosses keeps on rising. A lot of people have to have multiple MW jobs to keep up now.

If you have a Speedway card it's even better, mine was $2.58

Used some of my points for $.25 off so I paid $2.44. Better deal last week at Kroger for my wife's car. Gas was $2.89 at Kroger and we had $1.00 fuel points. Thought I was in an episode of Twilight Zone paying under $2 a gallon.

So, isn't anyone going to question how I evidently knew @Lee and @WDW1974 were squirreled away? Sure, I was wrong about the Vests but somehow, I detected a ripple in the Force. Kindred Sprits perhaps?

 

[wdisney9000]

Any insight as to when they might make some additions/deletions to the finale reel?

Rumor is they are adding a scene from Sister Act 2...finally!!! /sarcasm

 

[Figaro928]

I simply don't have the time nor the inclination to argue with you. One does not negotiate with the fanatics that are Epcot Fanboiz.

Seriously, thank you for the laugh. I'm far from any type of fanboi(z) - Epcot or otherwise. In fact, I'm not really all that sure what a fanboi(z) is (are) !!!!! Just a suburban mom wide a double wide stroller and a double-wide opinion - both gunning for your ankles. (yes, probably worse than a fanboi)

 

[Figaro928]

Any insight as to when they might make some additions/deletions to the finale reel? Certainly that must be one of the easier things to fix in GMR. Really surprised they haven't gone for that low-hanging fruit. A few quick shots of Tangled, Ralph and Frozen in there... I guess images of Avengers would be verboten, but what about a Guardians shot?

Before they fix GMR's final reel maybe they should first take Lance Armstrong out of American Adventure.

 

[WDWFigment]

@WDWFigment 's excellent HKDL Halloween trip report is up.
http://www.disneytouristblog.com/halloween-hong-kong-disneyland/

Thanks! I wish I could have seen what they did a few years ago, but I was still impressed with this year's offerings. If only *that* is what the Villains Unleashed party were (a single day ticket to HKDL that includes its Haunted Halloween offerings is cheaper than the Villains party ticket OR a single day at DHS). Not holding out any hope of that ever happening...the line at Guest Relations for complaints would be longer than the line for TSM.

 

[WDWFigment]

Where did you post that Halloween stuff?

I do think that it being your first UNI attraction factored into your opinion.

No way do I place it in my Top 20 worldwide. Just no way at all. ... Spidey is in that. FJ absolutely is in it. EFG isn't.

You win a free drink or dessert on me if you ever stop ducking me and and happen to be in the same place at the same time (don't listen to the Twits on the Twitter as most of them are ... slightly to majorly out of their minds) ... so where you headed next? You must have a Disney trip scheduled before 2015? Feel free to PM me if you don't wish to publicize future travels. I don't put mine out (well, beyond heading to SDL's opening whenever that may be!)

Sorry, I thought I pasted a link to the post in here. I'll just copy and paste the old post...

A couple of you asked various questions about the Asian parks, so here are some random thoughts that are generally responsive to those questions:

-I had heard HKDL has a more intense Halloween than the US Parks but, holy cow, I was not expecting that. I ended up going through both houses the second time by myself because my wife refused to do Graves Academy a second time. Very, very well done and a great change of pace from the usual Halloween stuff in the US. I only wish HKDL debuted Paint the Night earlier or later so it didn't cause a cut to the rest of the Halloween stuff.

-Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but the stage show at HKDL (new for this year) features some local celebrity who is a member of S.E.A. He seemed a lot like Harrison Hightower, except not quite as dastardly, and he was collecting freaks rather than artifacts. Visually cool show, but entirely in Cantonese, so I probably missed something via dialogue (dialogue is seldom that important to Disney shows, so those who are letting 'not understanding anything' stop you from visiting the int'l parks--don't).

-I am not one of the 'anti-HKDL' people (quite the contrary), but I was underwhelmed by Paint the Night. Perhaps my expectations were too high, but I felt the pacing was terrible (they need to get rid of the show stops and interactive element--both were complete duds on opening night) and it feels a bit imbalanced in favor of contemporary/hip stuff. There are some flashes of brilliance in terms of the floats (and costumes!), but the parade needs more than a little tweaking. It's no Dreamlights, but definitely better than MSEP.

-Skeleton Friends at Tokyo DisneySea (YouTube it) is the best Halloween entertainment at any park, and prove that good 'streetmosphere' can be just as important as good attractions.

-Once Upon a Time is far better than I expected based on the reviews. It's not Disney Dreams quality, but it's a significant improvement over what WDW has--and I like Celebrate the Magic.

-Jungle Cruise enhancements are great, and their skippers are always a hoot. I don't get the controversy over The Lion King music (hasn't the attraction always been self-aware and broken the fourth wall?). All of my TDR friends said the night version was "much better," but I didn't find that to be the case. Was really just a minor tweak of the day version.

-Visited USJ, which is a great park, although it needs to add some serious capacity. Single rider saved me. Their WWoHP is better than USF's in terms of ambiance (Black Lake is a big deal). Space Fantasy is an attraction about which I had never heard, but is incredible. HHN was fun, especially the roaming zombies.

-No hard ticket Halloween events in any 3 of the Japanese parks I visited. Also, admission is ~$60 US for each of these parks and includes the Halloween events. Yes, it's cheaper to visit Tokyo DisneySea for a day than DHS. You could even do a meal at Magellan's and still come out ahead...

I have plenty more thoughts, but I'm not sure whether more than 2-3 of you actually care about the Asian parks, so I'll stop rambling now. If you want to know more, just ask...

...

Since that post, I've done full write-ups for each of the halloween offerings (TDS, TDL, HKDL, and USJ) w/ photos.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Sorry, I thought I pasted a link to the post in here. I'll just copy and paste the old post...

A couple of you asked various questions about the Asian parks, so here are some random thoughts that are generally responsive to those questions:

-I had heard HKDL has a more intense Halloween than the US Parks but, holy cow, I was not expecting that. I ended up going through both houses the second time by myself because my wife refused to do Graves Academy a second time. Very, very well done and a great change of pace from the usual Halloween stuff in the US. I only wish HKDL debuted Paint the Night earlier or later so it didn't cause a cut to the rest of the Halloween stuff.

-Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but the stage show at HKDL (new for this year) features some local celebrity who is a member of S.E.A. He seemed a lot like Harrison Hightower, except not quite as dastardly, and he was collecting freaks rather than artifacts. Visually cool show, but entirely in Cantonese, so I probably missed something via dialogue (dialogue is seldom that important to Disney shows, so those who are letting 'not understanding anything' stop you from visiting the int'l parks--don't).

-I am not one of the 'anti-HKDL' people (quite the contrary), but I was underwhelmed by Paint the Night. Perhaps my expectations were too high, but I felt the pacing was terrible (they need to get rid of the show stops and interactive element--both were complete duds on opening night) and it feels a bit imbalanced in favor of contemporary/hip stuff. There are some flashes of brilliance in terms of the floats (and costumes!), but the parade needs more than a little tweaking. It's no Dreamlights, but definitely better than MSEP.

-Skeleton Friends at Tokyo DisneySea (YouTube it) is the best Halloween entertainment at any park, and prove that good 'streetmosphere' can be just as important as good attractions.

-Once Upon a Time is far better than I expected based on the reviews. It's not Disney Dreams quality, but it's a significant improvement over what WDW has--and I like Celebrate the Magic.

-Jungle Cruise enhancements are great, and their skippers are always a hoot. I don't get the controversy over The Lion King music (hasn't the attraction always been self-aware and broken the fourth wall?). All of my TDR friends said the night version was "much better," but I didn't find that to be the case. Was really just a minor tweak of the day version.

-Visited USJ, which is a great park, although it needs to add some serious capacity. Single rider saved me. Their WWoHP is better than USF's in terms of ambiance (Black Lake is a big deal). Space Fantasy is an attraction about which I had never heard, but is incredible. HHN was fun, especially the roaming zombies.

-No hard ticket Halloween events in any 3 of the Japanese parks I visited. Also, admission is ~$60 US for each of these parks and includes the Halloween events. Yes, it's cheaper to visit Tokyo DisneySea for a day than DHS. You could even do a meal at Magellan's and still come out ahead...

I have plenty more thoughts, but I'm not sure whether more than 2-3 of you actually care about the Asian parks, so I'll stop rambling now. If you want to know more, just ask...

...

Since that post, I've done full write-ups for each of the halloween offerings (TDS, TDL, HKDL, and USJ) w/ photos.

The food now, all the food! How are the spring rolls?

 

[WDWFigment]

Hunny Hunt is a D ticket (a "D+" ticket really, that's why it's so beloved by North American Fans). I expect Frozen to be a grander scale attraction than Pooh.

Dang, if Hunny Hunt is "only" a D-Ticket, what is Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh? AAA-Ticket?

I know it's subjective, but I don't see any way Hunny Hunt isn't an E-Ticket. It's not drawing 90+ minute waits solely on the account of the 5 North American fans who visit TDL in any given day...

With that said, I would also expect Frozen to be on a grander scale. In part because I'd expect it to be longer, in part because some technical progress has been made in the 15 years since Hunny Hunt opened.

 

[GoofGoof]

Do you not remember the 80s?

I can visit many locations and resorts that have excellent maintenance, and it has little to do with a deteriorating society, but more of the people in charge who make sure things like this are taken care of. Believe it or not, it also has to do with the job and employers also, where the people you hire are treated well and live on a good income, will not only care more about the job, but feel they're a part of the team, and that really, really matters to them. Atmosphere matters. That's why you see more and more of comporate America pampering and respecting their employees... it actually works and translates back to the job. If it's a crap job with low pay and that's the way you're treated, that's what you're going to get.

It's less an issue with society and more with the conditions of the average worker (whose wages have not changed in decades, btw) and how they're treated. With how much people have been priced out of WDW vacations it's getting harder for me to buy that the WDW guest problem is based on class or income. The wealthy guests have always been pretty nasty, literally and figuratively. Trust me, a chunk of my life spent in Orlando tourisim dealing with the upperclass, even more with WDW, has removed any notions they're any better than the "Wal-Mart crowd."

The issue with society I was alluding to is the conditions of the average worker. I didn't want to get into a whole debate on minimum wage being too low (which I do think is true) and poor working conditions, but there is really no way to discuss this without talking about it. I also personally don't buy into the whole lower class guest at WDW theory. I just see it posted here a lot and was pointing it out.

 

[WDWFigment]

The food now, all the food! How are the spring rolls?

I love the food just about anywhere in Asia. The sushi around Tsukiji Fish Market in Tokyo is top notch. You can't beat a good Korean BBQ in Gangnam. HK has some great (and some suspect) street food. Oh, and the vending machines...so many good, bizarre drinks from the vending machines, which are on literally every block.

Surprisingly, Tokyo Disney Resort doesn't have that much in the way of Japanese food, but the snacks and other foods are very high quality and usually delicious. HKDL has pretty good dim sum, among other things.

 

[GoofGoof]

You can blame the guests all you want.. but it's still Disney's job to clean up after them and maybe even try shaping that guest behavior. But we can all go 'woe is me... can't help it' and accept it to. That's the way to ensure we hit bottom.



If you have more trash to clean up - then you need more people to clean it up. Adjust - not mope.

I agree that they need to add more resources to park maintenance. The question was whether the issues now are based on lack of resources or cleanliness of park guests. I still see it as a combination of both. When the parks were properly staffed and the place was spotless guests were also more respectful of their environment. I believe it was because they knew the reputation and how clean it was and wanted to be part of that environment. Almost like a pride in "ownership" even thought the guests didn't really own the parks.

 

[Cesar R M]

I haven't caught up with the thread yet, so excuse me if it's already been mentioned, but there's lots of talk amongst CMs at MNSSHP tonight that George Lucas was present in VIP areas and i've heard (but not as firmly confirmed) that Johnny Depp may have been present as well.

Johnny Depp really likes Disney. Doesnt he?

 

[71jason]

Johnny Depp really likes Disney. Doesnt he?

He eats at Citricos a couple times a year typically, so yes. Or at least his kids do.

 

[Cesar R M]

That queue is always nasty. I dont get why guets cannot use a trash can

because their precious honey booboo cant leave the queue for more than 5 seconds, they fear they will get delayed by 2 seconds when boarding the attraction.

 

[Cesar R M]

Spot on analysis.

perhaps the managers are too busy doing "meetings" and just staying in their offices than actually leading?

 

[Cesar R M]

He eats at Citricos a couple times a year typically, so yes. Or at least his kids do.

I'm surprised he prefers WDW then, I expected him to prefer Disneyland.

 

[PhotoDave219]

perhaps the managers are too busy doing "meetings" and just staying in their offices than actually leading?

I'm doing several instances that to be true in regards to the Magic Kingdom custodial team. Especially some of those that of been there 15 or 20 years and not interested in more than collecting a paycheck…