The Spirited Back Nine ...

stevehousse

Well-Known Member
yeah i would think at the earliest EPCOT gets something big by 2021
the next few years will be about DHS and DAK

The sad part is, to them, Frozen is Epcot's next big thing so I'm sure there thinking is that they can justify not having to add anything for awhile because Frozen ride will bring the crowds. To us we think it's stupid , yes, but to every average guest, they will just see it as a must for their princess to have to go to Epcot to ride it.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
Good to see you spirit in between threads the world actually stops spinning.....scientists in a room somewhere hAve proven it....so I am glad you have returned for humanity.

Side bar: what is your basic background? I am curious if you were a CM at one point ect ect? What originally tied you to the mouse?
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Since this was planned a few years ago and kept having false starts, can you elaborate on what finally pushed the decision?
One thing: they had no other choice. The park would have died (no, not closed or anything, but just been a place where folks visit only for hops and spend no money).

There isn't anything there any longer.

The holdup was a few factors that we've discussed and, likely, a few we don't know. But it had to finally happen and now is finally.
The delay in starting the DHS redo is going to take some time to explain. Please bear with me. :)

Many recall the 3-year construction for EPCOT, which was a phenomenal pace for a project of that magnitude.

The scale was massive:

Epcot Construction.jpg



Fewer seem to recall that EPCOT was in a holding pattern for several years, mostly as a result of Disney trying to line up funding. (There also were internal disagreements regarding which way EPCOT should go but money was key.)

The work being done at DHS is nowhere near the scale of EPCOT but there is a similar primary reason for its delay: money.

For Bob Iger’s first 4 years as CEO, Disney’s Parks & Resorts (P&R) division established an all-time low capital expenditure (capex) budget vs. revenue. From 2006 to 2009, capex averaged only 9.6%. The only other period with a similarly low capex was 1976 to 1979, right before the start of EPCOT construction. (See, there was a reason I started by mentioning EPCOT. :))

Under Iger, Wall Street began to think that a capex of less than 10% was normal for a theme park. Iger was Wall Street’s darling.

Of course, a theme park capex budget of less than 10% is not normal. Heck, that much is needed just to keep the place from falling apart, and Disney theme parks are supposed to be ‘the best’. Wall Street didn't understand this and thought Iger was a miracle worker.

When capex started to climb from 2010 to 2012 to fund 2 cruise ships, Cars Land, the New Fantasyland, and MyMagic+, Wall Street became concerned. They started to question Iger. For those 3 years, capex averaged 19.9%.

19.9% sounds great, and it is. Arguably, Disney’s capex should average around 17%, especially since so much of what Disney classifies as capex is what CFO Jay Rasulo refers to as “maintenance capital”. The theme parks, hotels, and the supporting infrastructure undergo a lot of wear-and-tear. Disney’s resorts are getting old and in constant need of capital upgrades and repair.

However, we also have to put that 19.9% into historical perspective.

As I mentioned previously, Disney had a low capex from 1976 to 1979, similar to 2006 to 2009. However, for the 3 years after that (1980 to 1982), Disney averaged an unbelievable capex of 54.4%! In other words, in the late 1970s Disney was pooling its money before undertaking a massive expansion.

Thus, the 19.9% capex budget from 2010 to 2012 is nothing spectacular. In fact, it’s still below the average from the time WDW opened until Iger took charge. Over a 34-year period, Disney’s P&R capex averaged 23.8%. Considering that Iger’s peak year (2011) was at 23.1%, Iger’s capex budgets haven’t been particularly impressive.

To be clear, 23.8% is too high for today’s Disney. It’s simply not expanding at the same rate as it did in the 1970s to 1990s, nor should it. However, an average capex of 17% is eminently reasonable in order to achieve sustainable growth. So far, Iger’s P&R capex budgets have averaged 14.4%. If that 2.6% difference doesn't seem like much, it comes out to $2.4 billion in non-inflation adjusted dollars. That’s $2.4 billion that Disney’s theme parks have been underfunded since Iger took charge, at a time when Disney has spent over $38 billion on stock buybacks. :banghead:

Again though, Wall Street has a short memory. They have no historical perspective. They understand ‘today’. They wanted Iger to cut capex in 2013. Being a Wall Street darling, Iger complied. In 2013, capex was down to 15.0%.

For the first 9 months of 2014, capex was up to 16.7% but that number is deceptive. Because of the way Disney is required to report expenses, it’s reporting capex that’s actually being paid for by the Shanghai Shendi Group. In other words, Disney isn't paying a large chunk of that 16.7%.

Looking at Disney domestically (which Disney funds 100%), U.S. capex for the first 9 months of 2014 was 8.8%, a number beaten only by Iger’s record low domestic capex budgets in 2006 (8.1%) and 2008 (8.6%).

Cutting through all other excuses, work on DHS should have started years ago but was delayed because Iger and his minions didn't want to pay for it.
 
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Adam N

Well-Known Member
Here's hoping I'll be able to stay caught up on this thread.
So excited for things to change, no matter how long it may take. :)
 

draybook

Well-Known Member
Oh, I already know they plan on using it until the land opens. The writer loves using it and poking fun at disney.

While I have no problem with poking fun at Disney, at least TRY. Don't just do the same thing every **** year.


I dunno, they keep using the "this isn't the Magic Kingdom, I don't have to be nice to kids" line at the Horror Make Up show every year and it still gets chuckles from us....
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
I'm more shocked about UNI. This was the perfect opportunity to really strike and it seems they're deciding to pull the reigns back at the most inopportune time... DA with EFG should have been viewed as a key expansion to the park to really set it in the direction to put it on WDW's level, basically a stepping stone to a planned goal. It seems it's basically being viewed as: Well... that didn't bring in the insane return we'd hope for, so let's not do that again and while we're at it, let's cut all future projects down to size and don't let our ambitions get too lofty.

This could be the moment UNI shoots itself in the foot and loses all of the momentum and potential headway it was really making. This is very concerning.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
You summed up how I felt about Gringotts perfectly. It wasn't exactly "that was it?", more "that was fun", but closer to the first than I would have expected. Everything leading up to it was so well done (minus the Contact paper job on the columns which drove me nuts. There is faux work that works well at distances but never meant to be seen up close.) that the ride was a minor (again minor) letdown. And let's get it out in the open, those elevators were just dressed up Hydrolators from The Living Seas. I spent my time in them waiting to be welcomed to Seabase Alpha. Not that that is a bad thing.
Diagon Alley as a whole is so well done, the ride almost doesn't hold up to its scrutiny.

As for the rest of the news in here, I am cautiously excited, pessimisticly mind-blown by the budget numbers getting mentioned. How long did the DCA makeover take from announcement to open?
Considering that first time we went through the queue it was more of a "walkthrough" attraction with a bit of paper being your prize, I have to wonder if the mechanical problems are fixable. I completely concur with you and @WDW1974 ...those faux marble columns weren't well done. Distracting when you were right next to them. And it ain't no FJ.
 

cheezbat

Well-Known Member
I think EFG's big problem is that everyone expected a ride bigger and more exciting than Forbidden Journey. Honestly, I'm glad it's more tame. More people can ride it.
I think our problem as fans is that we expect each attraction to be bigger and better than the last one, and that's not how it needs to be. The parks need more family rides as well as the big E-ticket thrills. I expect Kong to be a huge ride, but expect lesser attractions added following Kong's opening.

As for the cutbacks on the Waterpark and third theme park, I truly hope not. If Comcast wants to play thus game at Disneys level, then they have to be willing to go all out.

I still hope this Waterpark is better than anything else out there.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
I think EFG's big problem is that everyone expected a ride bigger and more exciting than Forbidden Journey. Honestly, I'm glad it's more tame. More people can ride it.
I think our problem as fans is that we expect each attraction to be bigger and better than the last one, and that's not how it needs to be. The parks need more family rides as well as the big E-ticket thrills. I expect Kong to be a huge ride, but expect lesser attractions added following Kong's opening.

As for the cutbacks on the Waterpark and third theme park, I truly hope not. If Comcast wants to play thus game at Disneys level, then they have to be willing to go all out.

I still hope this Waterpark is better than anything else out there.
Although I read all the rumors saying how great Gringotts would be I also remembered that it was supposed to be tamer than Forbidden Journey. With that in mind I wasn't at all disappointed with it after my first ride (you can find my glowing slightly fanboyish review posted right after my first ride in the spirited seventh ;)), unless you count the lack of an animatronic Dragon a reason to be sorely disappointed with the whole ride.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Doom and gloom aside, it seems like 3/4 parks will come out significantly ahead of where they began this decade. I've long said if the DHS plans ever actually got pushed through I'd be pretty happy with their five-year medium term plans overall.

It's not perfect, but the WDW haemorrhage seems to have finally neared an end.

If only a few more Epcot refurbs (Imagination, Energy) firmed up there really wouldn't be a whole lot to complain about.

1 down, 3 to go... (Hat, Yeti, Imagination, COP)
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I think EFG's big problem is that everyone expected a ride bigger and more exciting than Forbidden Journey. Honestly, I'm glad it's more tame. More people can ride it.
I think our problem as fans is that we expect each attraction to be bigger and better than the last one, and that's not how it needs to be. The parks need more family rides as well as the big E-ticket thrills. I expect Kong to be a huge ride, but expect lesser attractions added following Kong's opening.

As for the cutbacks on the Waterpark and third theme park, I truly hope not. If Comcast wants to play thus game at Disneys level, then they have to be willing to go all out.

I still hope this Waterpark is better than anything else out there.
It was well know that Harry Potter and the Escape from Gringotts was to be more tame. The attraction simple fails to fully deliver on its concept.
 

DoTheImpossible

Active Member
This is pretty exciting news. I imagine Lasseter will pay close attention to at least the Cars portion of this re-do, which should help to protect the budget.

@WDW1974 I imagine you've said all you can (or know) for now. But any news on re-skins for the shows in the overhaul? (Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc.)
 

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