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The Spirited Back Nine ...

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Let's confirm something else: work (if you can call it that) has indeed started on two small Marriott-branded suite hotels at the empty former orange groves (who was that Spirit seen picking fruit off a tree in the wilds yesterday?) known as Flamingo Crossing. Disney's goal is to ship some of the sports groups over there to open up more inventory at the only resorts (other than DVC) that they have no trouble filling!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Drunks are an issue at EPCOT. Plain and simple. And adding a DRINK RESPONSIBLY on the Food and Wine and Sodomize You With the Prices Fest Brochure doesn't change the fact that instead of a tasting and experimenting with new tastes experience, F&W has become a Get Drunk Around the World For 16 Times What It Would Cost in the Real World Fest.

Of course, they're even worse at HHN's where fights are commonplace and security is nearly invisible in house queues.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
So budget is similar to DCA 2.0? That COULD be good news if handled right and not squandered on bullcrap, but we'll see. From what I have read online, DCA 2.0 cost around $1.1 billion. Insiders here can correct me if that's not accurate. I'm also not sure what specific attractions this entire budget encompassed, but from 2007-2012 DCA got the following substantial ride or attraction additions- Toy Story Mania, World of Color, The Little Mermaid, the entirety of Cars Land and all the less major cosmetic alterations the park got as well. I don't know if all of these were included in the supposed $1.1 billion budget.

Individually, a lot of the cloned stuff theoretically shouldn't be as expensive as the original versions, especially regarding the already unimpressive carnie attractions in the first place. A clone of Toy Story Playland shouldn't eat into the budget TOO much, don't know how much TSMM's expansion will cost but I also can't imagine it being massively expensive either. Cars and Star Wars are probably going to cost the most if they're getting the "big rides", and we don't know what level of ambition they're being built on. Assuming there's a fully realized clone of Radiator Springs Racers, its cost (while still pricey) should theoretically cost at least somewhat less than the original due to much of the design work already done. That is assuming they don't give a downgraded version. Don't know how much money is being dedicated to the visual overhaul, sounds like quite a bit (maybe more than DCA 2.0).

It is however very important to note that Disney is becoming increasingly wasteful with their budgets, even moreso since DCA 2.0. I would imagine even the same budget wouldn't yield as much content as it did back when DCA's overhaul started. And Cars Land had Lasseter supervising to ensure a top quality product, I'm unaware whether DHS' redo will have anyone like Lasseter in charge to ensure it's done properly and the bean counters don't get their grubby hands all over it to ruin things.

In your opinion 74, does anything you've heard about the DHS overhaul interest or please you? We kind of know to expect carnie rides out of Toy Story (probably the playland and TSMM expansion), but it's rather vague as to what "Cars" could mean (could mean something as good as Cars Land at DCA, or as pathetic as the embarrassing Cars ride at the Studios Disneyland Paris, or even something in between). What we know about Star Wars if also pretty vague at this point. So it would be nice to hear your early opinion about certain elements of this project.

BTW, kind of unrelated and feel free to ignore this if you like, but do you have anything new to share about the work being done to Animal Kingdom (regarding Avatar, Rivers of Light, or anything else)?
 
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TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
Back after finally experiencing Diagon Alley (yes, loved it ... but, no, it isn't close to perfect).

It isn't close to perfect?! It's much closer to perfect than not. Admittedly, the restrooms could be better...

The only things you can count on existing come 2019 would be ToT, RnRC, TSMM and ST.

Five years from now?! Wish I could care about that far from now. Maybe the dyed-in-the-wool fanbois do, but 2019? I probably won't live in this state by then.

It is likely that 1-2 other current aspects of the park will still exist, but possible none will.

Pitiful. Of course, the plans should have been made three years ago, and construction should already be near-completion by now.

But realize this is a five-year plan. Meaning Robert A. Iger and George A. Kalogridis and any exec with a middle initial over 50 will likely be gone when it is all done.

Well, that instills confidence in the quality of the plans.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Whenever Spirit starts a thread, I just picture him on the balcony of an I-4 Super 8, with his arms stretched out like Eva Peron before a crowd of EPCOT Center T-shirt clad fans (and some local gators) singing:

"Don't cry for me Disney Fan Bois

The truth is, I never left you...
"
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
The ONLY project that has yet to see the budget ax has been Kong.

That's nice. I was thinking Diagon might be the last gasp of "true quality."

There is deep concern among many in Creative that Thierry Coup and Co. could be hacking the blue sky third gate, which has been described as ''incredible'' to me.

"Hacking the blue sky third gate" meaning...?

Understand this is all despite the amazing numbers that Comcast posted last week. And get that this is the same trap that Michael Eisner fell into at Disney (20% growth annually, remember?) DA has been a phenomenal hit ... and yet that just isn't enough. There always has to be more, more, more.

Leave it to Wall Street to ruin a good thing.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Of course, they're even worse at HHN's where fights are commonplace and security is nearly invisible in house queues.

This past weekend multiple people got stabbed (one killed) in Canada's Wonderland's parking lot following a fight that broke out during that night's Halloween Haunt (an event like the ones held at other Cedar Fair parks).

People who were there said that security was poor and the crowds were worse than ever. Based on your post this sadly appears to be more common with Halloween events in amusement parks.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So budget is similar to DCA 2.0? That COULD be good news if handled right and not squandered on bullcrap, but we'll see. From what I have read online, DCA 2.0 cost around $1.1 billion. Insiders here can correct me if that's not accurate. I'm also not sure what specific attractions this entire budget encompassed, but from 2007-2012 DCA got the following substantial ride or attraction additions- Toy Story Mania, World of Color, The Little Mermaid, the entirety of Cars Land and all the less major cosmetic alterations the park got as well. I don't know if all of these were included in the supposed $1.1 billion budget.

TWDC played with that budget too. The figure they widely circulated was $1.2 billion, BUT that didn't include TSMM, WoC, the new Pixar Parade, all those night fests etc. The figure most in the business use when all of that is factored in is somewhere north of $1.6 billion.

Individually, a lot of the cloned stuff theoretically shouldn't be as expensive as the original versions, especially regarding the already unimpressive carnie attractions in the first place. A clone of Toy Story Playland shouldn't eat into the budget TOO much, don't know how much TSMM's expansion will cost but I also can't imagine it being massively expensive either. Cars and Star Wars are probably going to cost the most if they're getting the "big rides", and we don't know what level of ambition they're being built on. Assuming there's a fully realized clone of Radiator Springs Racers, its cost (while still pricey) should theoretically cost at least somewhat less than the original due to much of the design work already done. That is assuming they don't give a downgraded version.

Take this as an opinion, not a fact. But I am 95% certain that RSRs is not coming. Different attraction, different ride system.


It is however very important to note that Disney is becoming increasingly wasteful with their budgets, even moreso since DCA 2.0. I would imagine even the same budget wouldn't yield as much content as it did back when DCA's overhaul started. And Cars Land had Lasseter supervising to ensure a top quality product, I'm unaware whether DHS' redo will have anyone like Lasseter in charge to ensure it's done properly and the bean counters don't get their grubby hands all over it to ruin things.

Well, we all know the social media spectacle when JL was seen at WDW last month. But the facts are he has so many pies dealing with WDFA and PIxar and DLR that I find it very hard to believe he'll have much oversight here at all. He's also got SDL (with an entire TS themed resort) and a new version of TSMM next up for HKDL. Kathy Mangum is talented, but there's realistically only so much she can do. And then there's Trowbridge overseeing the SW work. How that will work as far as reporting goes, I am not sure.

In your opinion 74, does anything you've heard about the DHS overhaul interest or please you? We kind of know to expect carnie rides out of Toy Story (probably the playland and TSMM expansion), but it's rather vague as to what "Cars" could mean (could mean something as good as Cars Land at DCA, or as pathetic as the embarrassing Cars ride at the Studios Disneyland Paris, or even something in between). What we know about Star Wars if also pretty vague at this point. So it would be nice to hear your early opinion about certain elements of this project.

I need to hear more, BUT I am excited by the possibilities in sort of a distant way (you know, like some men sat and watched the Olsen twins for years kind of hoping and wishing for possibilities!)

They are spending. But they always spend. NGE makes UNI's work look like it was done on the cheap because WDW wastes money ... you know, while cutting the quality of meat they buy or the amount of turkey they place on a sandwich or making sure no one steals soda (BTW, found a great way to almost do the same. Thanks to the friend who clued me in as I used it last night at dinner!)

Amazing how they spend so poorly, but Wall Street loves Iger ... Wall Street wants to collectively get on its knees in front of him (insert the fanboi/Imagineer joke of your choice here).

BTW, kind of unrelated and feel free to ignore this if you like, but do you have anything new to share about the work being done to Animal Kingdom (regarding Avatar, Rivers of Light, or anything else)?

Only that a blue alien se-x kitty wearing mouse ears at HHNs said that ''Avatar would be coming to a theme park near you around 2075'' ... I know that RoL had major budget cuts but that's old news at this point. It should open in early spring 2016. Avatar should start opening in late 2017.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Whenever Spirit starts a thread, I just picture him on the balcony of an I-4 Super 8, with his arms stretched out like Eva Peron before a crowd of EPCOT Center T-shirt clad fans (and some local gators) singing:

"Don't cry for me Disney Fan Bois

The truth is, I never left you...
"

While I once stayed at a Red Roof Inn (and lived to regret it), I have never stayed at a Super 8 in my life.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
Only that a blue alien se-x kitty wearing mouse ears at HHNs said that ''Avatar would be coming to a theme park near you around 2075''
Sort of off-topic, but I hated that they did this joke again. Same exact joke, word for word, 3 years in a row now. Same costume and I think it's the same actor as well. It's funny once, maybe even the second time, but it's getting old now.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
@WDW1974 whats your opinion on Gringotts?

I was thinking of waiting a few days to put out my feelings to build tension in the loins of UNI fanbois, but since you asked and since I am still awake ...

Um ... ah ... uhhhh ... how do I answer this?

I liked it. I liked it a lot. But I didn't love it. And I don't think it comes close to being a Top 10 attraction worldwide.

It's fun. The queue is phenomenal (except for the cheap paint job of the supposedly marble columns ... hey, Gwyn agreed with me and she worked on the damn thing). Love the elevators, which remind me of JTTCoTE at TDS. The detail is terrific. The attraction is thisclose to being a true family ride as it's not close to being as intense as FJ or even the Mummy. But there are still multiple show synching issues (again, ride with someone who knows every inch of the attraction and you'll get it). It's still wonderful. But it is similar to how I felt after riding Transformers. Liked it, but enjoyed Spidey more. Liked Gringotts, but it doesn't compare to FJ for me.

FWIW, I loved Diagon Alley much more as a total package then Gringotts as a ride. That's largely how I feel about Cars Land in Anaheim versus RSRs itself. That one area is so far above the quality of anything UNI has done before. It makes the rest of the park (a very good one) pale in comparison. Hell, it makes Hogsmeade pale in comparison. It just really is that good.

And I need to run ... but I absolutely loved the HE as well (the issue with it, though, is guest feedback -- non fanboi -- hasn't been very good. They view it as transport, not an attraction, which may be ridiculous, but is also true.

Later in this thread: what did @Lee dress up as for MNSSHP.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I'll be rather disappointed if Great Movie Ride is killed off entirely, especially if it means replaced by either a non ride or a ride dominated by video screens. Updating is fine, but it sounds like it's in a danger of much more than that. I don't look forward to losing another classic and rich quality Disney ride (with the elaborate set pieces and animatronic figures) like we did with so many at EPCOT...

Will also be sad if they don't find some way or another to keep the Osborne Lights around. Christmas decorations at WDW parks outside of Magic Kingdom are sparse enough as it is without their loss. From my experience, it also drives major crowds to the parks during that season and would probably negatively impact attendance to a considerable amount if they kill them off.

I'm also disappointed to hear that Universal is already becoming greedy and stingy with future attraction budgets. They were starting to sound like they were going for blood in the theme park war. Would have been good not just for Uni fanboys, but I was also wishing they'd push Disney harder to compete as well. They were on their way at least, some very good first steps. Not happy at all to hear that this may never actually occur.

Take this as an opinion, not a fact. But I am 95% certain that RSRs is not coming. Different attraction, different ride system.
Not sure how to feel about that if your hunch is correct. I'm all for originality in rides if you can go full-on with a new concept and give it your all. But it's going to be rather hard for me to imagine Disney building a completely new type of Cars ride and have it not come across as an inferior ride compared to RSR. I don't have a high level of faith in modern Disney's ability to wow me, this is doubly so in regards to WDW.

TWDC played with that budget too. The figure they widely circulated was $1.2 billion, BUT that didn't include TSMM, WoC, the new Pixar Parade, all those night fests etc. The figure most in the business use when all of that is factored in is somewhere north of $1.6 billion.
Then would you say DHS' budget is closer to the $1.2 billion or $1.6 billion figure?

Only that a blue alien se-x kitty wearing mouse ears at HHNs said that ''Avatar would be coming to a theme park near you around 2075'' ... I know that RoL had major budget cuts but that's old news at this point. It should open in early spring 2016. Avatar should start opening in late 2017.
Thanks. I hope River of Light wasn't mutilated beyond salvage. The concept art looked very nice and reminiscent of something on the scale and ambition of World of Color, hope it doesn't end up being a huge letdown. I also hope the boat ride is still included in Avatar Land, news about the project is super dead right now. I don't even know if vertical construction has begun yet (assuming not since i've yet to hear anything about that).
 
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Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Let's confirm something else: work (if you can call it that) has indeed started on two small Marriott-branded suite hotels at the empty former orange groves (who was that Spirit seen picking fruit off a tree in the wilds yesterday?) known as Flamingo Crossing. Disney's goal is to ship some of the sports groups over there to open up more inventory at the only resorts (other than DVC) that they have no trouble filling!

Amen!!!
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
And I need to run ... but I absolutely loved the HE as well (the issue with it, though, is guest feedback -- non fanboi -- hasn't been very good. They view it as transport, not an attraction, which may be ridiculous, but is also true.
Makes sense. Many of Unis guests are on WDW vacations and probably see it and think immediately of the monorail. A much higher themed monorail with a show on-board, but a monorail none-the-less (from the average guests perspective). So they don't understand why they have to wait so long.
 

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