The Spirited Back Nine ...

[wdwfan4ver]

I agree with WDW1974's stance on tobacco. I never smoked or use tobacco in my life as a kid, teenager, and as an adult.

I know what smoking does first hand to a person due to what I saw as a kid. I had had relatives that developed smoking related health problems when I was a kid including a relative that had a smoking related illness so bad, that his wife couldn't leave him alone.

I even had breathing problems growing up despite not being a smoker.

 

[lazyboy97o]

SunRail finally got built a decade later, but it is a heavy rail commuter line from the northern suburbs to downtown. It's only 30 miles long and should have been Light Rail for ease of long term operation, but it was cheaper to use existing heavy rail tracks and so they are running heavy trains on old freight track for short stop/go distances. But at least it's a train carrying a whopping 3,000 riders per day.

SunRail doesn't serve the airport and gets nowhere near any theme parks or tourist centers, thus staying off Disney's radar.

I believe SunRail is now up to about 4,000 riders per day with a few recent days up to 6,000 due to extended service hours. I applaud SunRail for being cost conscious and utilizing existing infrastructure. A lot of communities want all new infrastructure, which means going around the population centers that followed the existing infrastructure. It may not have many riders now, but it is now an existing incentive for future development the way trains were an impetus for development in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It'd also be wise of SunRail to get into the real estate game and develop station adjacent lands, this is how Hong zking's transit authority routinely generates significant profits.

That so many transit projects are built around federal finding really hurts the chances of transit in the Orlando area serving the employment centers, as they are also the tourist centers. The Feds are not fans of funding tourism projects and therefore federal transit fundin is typically not available to "tourist oriented" projects. In a more diverse area that can make sense, but it is killer when the local economy is so heavily built around tourism.

The construction of HSR was never really about how feasible it is but its a fast way to make jobs in the local area and temporary spur states economy. Nothing more nothing less.

Again, that is like saying a title pawn is a good idea because it temporary boosts your income.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Interestingly, Disney is helping fund and plan for the Anaheim streetcar, unlike the icy reception such transit plans have received from Disney execs in Orlando. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Well that's because for one thing, DLR has no version of Magical Express, so this would allow people to get from the airport without taking a car. Second, DLR has no true competition in the area. Sure Knott's is nearby, but they lose no threat.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Frankly I'm more worried about a police drone, Those things are HEAVY on the order of 10-50 pounds along with a gallon or so of Av Gas or Nitromethane as fuel and those are flown over crowds all the time.

It's only a matter of time before operator error drops one of those into a crowd or into a plane or helicopter bringing it down or killing and maiming unsuspecting members of the public.

There is a reason the military uses flight qualified officers in their drone program.

I know some people who have been doing this professionally for a bunch of years…

Short version? You really have to know how to fly these things. They are custom rigs have one person flying, the other person controlling the camera. And a third person as a spotter.

Whoever this guy is who put them up… he's risking some serious liability. Like an insane lawsuit if for whatever reason it comes down on someone.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

Several light rail and heavy rail systems had been talked about in Orlando metro for over a decade. But Disney would only support any rail plan that avoided I-Drive, competing theme parks, and the Convention Center, and insisted any rail project had to offer direct service from the airport to WDW without intermediate stops. That Disney demand killed any ability to get the various projects off the ground because a metro area rail system must serve a variety of housing and employment centers, not just be an express train from the airport to WDW paid for by taxpayers.

How sad! Tourists in the area could have definitely benefited from an express train/monorail connecting at least MOST of the Orlando/Kissimmee attractions. Disney keeps on operating independently from the other attractions due to the greediness of those who run the company.

 

[PhotoDave219]

How sad! Tourists in the area could have definitely benefited from an express train/monorail connecting at least MOST of the Orlando/Kissimmee attractions. Disney keeps on operating independently from the other attractions due to the greediness of those who run the company.

yes but it's all about keeping them on Disney property…

 

[fillerup]

Several light rail and heavy rail systems had been talked about in Orlando metro for over a decade. But Disney would only support any rail plan that avoided I-Drive, competing theme parks, and the Convention Center, and insisted any rail project had to offer direct service from the airport to WDW without intermediate stops. That Disney demand killed any ability to get the various projects off the ground because a metro area rail system must serve a variety of housing and employment centers, not just be an express train from the airport to WDW paid for by taxpayers.

A typical newspaper article from the 2000's... http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2003-10-27/news/0310270326_1_route-bee-line-Disney

With typical blunt "Our Way or the Highway" statements about local politicians from Disney execs of that era....
"Disney refuses to cooperate with a Bee Line train... "I'd be terribly surprised if any of the people on that authority would be willing to roll the dice," said Tom Lewis Jr., Disney vice president for transportation development."

Things were icy. And the plans went nowhere. And then Disney invented Magical Express.

SunRail finally got built a decade later, but it is a heavy rail commuter line from the northern suburbs to downtown. It's only 30 miles long and should have been Light Rail for ease of long term operation, but it was cheaper to use existing heavy rail tracks and so they are running heavy trains on old freight track for short stop/go distances. But at least it's a train carrying a whopping 3,000 riders per day.

SunRail doesn't serve the airport and gets nowhere near any theme parks or tourist centers, thus staying off Disney's radar.

That's a very telling quote from a Disney exec and I remember the debate well. Still in all, there were indeed discussions over a couple of decades of various transport systems but nothing was actually planned with anything concrete other than the OIA - Tampa project.

By the end, Disney's stance had softened. The last incarnation before Rick Scott killed it included a stop at both the Convention Center and WDW with DIsney agreeing to donate land for the station, although the exact location was never finalized.

And just for clarity, the Orlando to Tampa rail was never going to be High Speed in the true definition of that term. I think the High Speed description was just to make the project sound sexy.

The Florida High Speed Rail Commission had said that the entire point to point route would be 84 miles and would be traveled in 64 minutes. That's an average of 78 mph. You could describe that as a Moderate Speed system at best.

I generally travel 78 mph on the turnpike so I guess I and my fellow drivers qualify as a Moderate Speed non-rail system.

 

[Hakunamatata]

How sad! Tourists in the area could have definitely benefited from an express train/monorail connecting at least MOST of the Orlando/Kissimmee attractions. Disney keeps on operating independently from the other attractions due to the greediness of those who run the company.

I might be missing out, but what other business provides transportation to its direct competitor?

 

[FutureWorld1982]

I might be missing out, but what other business provides transportation to its direct competitor?

We are talking about public transportation here, actually. Disney would have not approved a public transit system if it also linked other attractions.

 

[Hakunamatata]

We are talking about public transportation here, actually. Disney would have not approved a public transit system if it also linked other attractions.

Yes. They made a business decision. That doesn't meen its greed.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

Yes. They made a business decision. That doesn't meen its greed.

They refuse to give Guests the opportunity of having public transportation and enjoy other areas of Central Florida so that Disney can get most of their vacation money. That sounds very greedy to me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

How sad! Tourists in the area could have definitely benefited from an express train/monorail connecting at least MOST of the Orlando/Kissimmee attractions. Disney keeps on operating independently from the other attractions due to the greediness of those who run the company.

Even if Disney agreed, most transit projects are built with federal funds which will not be issued for a tourist oriented project.

That's a very telling quote from a Disney exec and I remember the debate well. Still in all, there were indeed discussions over a couple of decades of various transport systems but nothing was actually planned with anything concrete other than the OIA - Tampa project.

By the end, Disney's stance had softened. The last incarnation before Rick Scott killed it included a stop at both the Convention Center and WDW with DIsney agreeing to donate land for the station, although the exact location was never finalized.

And just for clarity, the Orlando to Tampa rail was never going to be High Speed in the true definition of that term. I think the High Speed description was just to make the project sound sexy.

The Florida High Speed Rail Commission had said that the entire point to point route would be 84 miles and would be traveled in 64 minutes. That's an average of 78 mph. You could describe that as a Moderate Speed system at best.

I generally travel 78 mph on the turnpike so I guess I and my fellow drivers qualify as a Moderate Speed non-rail system.

The use of the term was not just for flashy appeal. While average speeds were barely in the "higher speed" range, the plan was very much to use genuine high speed equipment. That is what made it eligible for the federal funds. That is why I have often compared it to buying a Ferrari to use for your daily commute. The state of Florida was going to buy incredibly expensive trains designed to travel at 150+ mph and only barely get them shortly up to about 120 mph on the stretch between Tampa and Lakeland while maybe getting that high between Lakeland and Walt Disney World.

 

[unkadug]

They refuse to give Guests the opportunity of having public transportation and enjoy other areas of Central Florida so that Disney can get most of their vacation money. That sounds very greedy to me.

It sounds like a business decision to me.

 

[Hakunamatata]

They refuse to give Guests the opportunity of having public transportation and enjoy other areas of Central Florida so that Disney can get most of their vacation money. That sounds very greedy to me.

I'm sure Disney could give away cash and you would find a way to implicate Disney in greed.

 

[fillerup]

Even if Disney agreed, most transit projects are built with federal funds which will not be issued for a tourist oriented project.

Exactly so.

The use of the term was not just for flashy appeal. While average speeds were barely in the "higher speed" range, the plan was very much to use genuine high speed equipment. That is what made it eligible for the federal funds. That is why I have often compared it to buying a Ferrari to use for your daily commute. The state of Florida was going to buy incredibly expensive trains designed to travel at 150+ mph and only barely get them shortly up to about 120 mph on the stretch between Tampa and Lakeland while maybe getting that high between Lakeland and Walt Disney World.

The Ferrari analogy is completely apt.

 

[fillerup]

They refuse to give Guests the opportunity of having public transportation and enjoy other areas of Central Florida so that Disney can get most of their vacation money. That sounds very greedy to me.

How is Disney denying guests this opportunity? The Lynx bus system (public transport) operates at WDW and has done so for many years.

You can use the Lynx trip planner and find that you can travel from Disney property to Universal Studios for example in only 1 hour and 18 minutes.

 

[TP2000]

The Florida High Speed Rail Commission had said that the entire point to point route would be 84 miles and would be traveled in 64 minutes. That's an average of 78 mph. You could describe that as a Moderate Speed system at best.

I generally travel 78 mph on the turnpike so I guess I and my fellow drivers qualify as a Moderate Speed non-rail system.

Amtrak's standard diesel locomotives regularly go 79 MPH between stops. Although most locomotives and rolling stock Amtrak currently uses was designed to safely cruise at 110 MPH, but old signaling and iffy track maintenance mandate that Amtrak keep the top speed artificially lowered to 79 MPH. The one big exception to that is Amtrak's Southwest Chief, which is allowed to go 90 MPH on Santa Fe track in California.

Back in the 1950's when Santa Fe maintained the tracks and ran the passenger train as its own Super Chief, the top speed was 100 MPH for long stretches. That was 60 years ago, using 1940's technology! And the on-board food and service was way better than Amtrak!

You don't need custom-built electric "High Speed Rail" equipment to get a passenger train to go just 84 miles at a speed of 100 mph, with two stops inbetween. If you maintained the tracks properly, you can do that very easily with the 30 year old equipment and technology that Amtrak uses on its many routes today.

But then you can't get any politicians excited about the "FREE MONEY!" collected from the magical money trees that grow on the banks of the Potomac River in Washington DC to build an all-new High Speed Rail system with the cool pointy locomotives and the glossy paint schemes.

 

[bhg469]

Indeed he is.

However the observation that Disney's prime demographic is made up of very basic people… That holds true.

Gosh dave, you do care!

And you're right!

 

[bhg469]

That's a rather nasty comment. Shall we assume you are one of the 25% ?

I wouldn't say it was nasty but it's accurate. People on this site are very well informed compared to the typical guest. I think my 75% may be a low guess.

 

[GoofGoof]

It sounds like a business decision to me.

I'm with these guys on this. Why would Disney spend billions on a fancy wrist band system to keep people on property and then turn around and support a publicly funded project that would make it easier for guests to leave their property.