The Spirited Back Nine ...

[GoofGoof]

considering the hard limit of the parks seems to be fixed by some security department (the firefighters right?)
I dont see how "more" they would be. during peak time, they would still be at peak.

That's the point. Every day would be a max capacity day. If you've ever been to a park when the gates are shut down its not fun and can border on unsafe.

 

[Mike S]

That's the point. Every day would be a max capacity day. If you've ever been to a park when the gates are shut down its not fun and can border on unsafe.

The only time I've been to a park while it was shut for capacity was when WWoHP first opened at IoA. I was SHOCKED at the sea of people still waiting to get in when we got out of City Walk. We went over to USF instead until later when we were finally able to get into IoA and rode Forbidden Journey on the first official day it was open. Only time I've ever done that at a theme park so far.

 

[flynnibus]

The real issue is how dyschotemous things are with the other gates. Animal Kingdom in its current state does very little to help with the resort during problem periods - when most guests dump out of it and head to other parks. More than Avatar, the night show, which will actually keep guests in park during the critical afternoon/late evening periods is a big first fix to the problem. The other parks desperately need to pick up the slack before MK explodes.

Yup - the real problem is Disney has one core park, and three other temporary diversion parks. Disney's own design in attractions, entertainment, and schedule causes the whole resort to come crushing down on MK on the busiest nights. Disney need to shape it's customer behavior to find more value in staying in the other parks. FP+ tries to do that half heartedly through force.. instead of creating DRAW to stay in parks.

If DHS took 2-3 days to enjoy instead of 8hrs... you wouldn't need as much MK capacity.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Is the draw for the twins M&G that crazy?

It seems to be anything frozen related. The Osborne lights frozen dessert party still sells out…

I think @71jason set it either on here or somewhere else… But this is an intellectual property that's prime for a boutique park. You can make your own little replica Airendale, you can have an ice skating rink inside somewhere, you going to sing-along, you can have a meet and greet, you could have a couple of rides...

Limit admission to a couple thousand people and charge A lot of money.

 

[Travel Junkie]

That's the point. Every day would be a max capacity day. If you've ever been to a park when the gates are shut down its not fun and can border on unsafe.

I could see a day when WDW is no longer walk up, buy your ticket, and get in. You purchase your tickets six months out, set up which park you are at which day, all your rides, shows, food etc and then EVERYTHING is preplanned according to a schedule. You see the beginnings of this with MM+. They can max out every park every day by doing this and with minimal wait time to guests since everything is on a set schedule. I would hate it, but this appears to be the direction they are heading, especially if they refuse to add capacity to the parks.

 

[asianway]

I could see a day when WDW is no longer walk up, buy your ticket, and get in. You purchase your tickets six months out, set up which park you are at which day, all your rides, shows, food etc and then EVERYTHING is preplanned according to a schedule. You see the beginnings of this with MM+. They can max out every park every day by doing this and with minimal wait time to guests since everything is on a set schedule. I would hate it, but this appears to be the direction they are heading, especially if they refuse to add capacity to the parks.

With flex pricing of course.

TDR already requires you to specify a date when purchasing tickets

 

[Fe Maiden]

Disney need to shape it's customer behavior to find more value in staying in the other parks.

While they are at it they should work on reshaping customer behavior to find value resort wide. Until they can get the other 3 parks to become at least full day parks, go back to the "Vacation Kingdom" concept and get families especially repeat families to spend time doing other things instead of Theme Park Day 1, 2 , 3 , 4, repeat. I know some will say since there are more parks its harder to do, but I don't think so. Especially when 3 of the 4 parks are half day.

Give special discounts (not some disingenuous 5% off but something worthwhile) to repeat guests for horseback riding, boat rentals. These were things we loved doing as kids (except for Discovery Island, that was pretty lame). Take one of the golf courses and make it a family or beginners course and offer free club rentals. The first time I played golf was on one of the WDW courses. You might get people hooked, who knows instead of buying one of those nasty theme park shirts with every character known to man, they might splurge on some golf merch.

 

[flynnibus]

While they are at it they should work on reshaping customer behavior to find value resort wide. Until they can get the other 3 parks to become at least full day parks, go back to the "Vacation Kingdom" concept and get families especially repeat families to spend time doing other things instead of Theme Park Day 1, 2 , 3 , 4, repeat. I know some will say since there are more parks its harder to do, but I don't think so. Especially when 3 of the 4 parks are half day.

Give special discounts (not some disingenuous 5% off but something worthwhile) to repeat guests for horseback riding, boat rentals. These were things we loved doing as kids (except for Discovery Island, that was pretty lame). Take one of the golf courses and make it a family or beginners course and offer free club rentals. The first time I played golf was on one of the WDW courses. You might get people hooked, who knows instead of buying one of those nasty theme park shirts with every character known to man, they might splurge on some golf merch.

sorry, wholelistic thinking with long term strength is not a desirable trait here. Hit your metrics solider - that's what you should be focused on.

 

[Fe Maiden]

sorry, wholelistic thinking with long term strength is not a desirable trait here. Hit your metrics solider - that's what you should be focused on.

Oh I know. Even as I was typing it, I was thinking someone in the offices of TDO will find it amusing.

 

[flynnibus]

Oh I know. Even as I was typing it, I was thinking someone in the offices of TDO will find it amusing.

Yeah I know. What you described is what WDW was to me growing up. We would do Keys to the Kingdom so we had access to everything as if it were an inclusive resort. The canoeing and campfires at FW.. to see the electric water parade. The power boats... swimming.. learning to ski on bay lake.. doing the Revue or Luau.. playing golf...

I still argue (and have) that Disney is responsible for conditioning the masses to the 'gotta do it all' mentality that leads to everyone stressing out and overloading in the parks.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

I agree with everyone there is a resort wide capacity issue, but capacity is half of the problem. At some point the infrastructure just does not exist for the parks in their current design to fit more people. There is a tipping point when no matter how many rides there are you can't shove any more people down Main Street to get to them. The infrastructure issues are far more nebulous and require large scale overhauls like those occurring in the hub.

This is apparent at Disneyland, despite having way more capacity, the actual infrastructure would crumble far earlier than Magic Kingdom.

Honestly in my opinion Magic Kingdom had passed the tipping point (and larger guests and strollers probably haven't helped). Disneyland passed that point too... And the only thing that suddenly reversed the looming disaster was the DCA overhaul.

The real issue is how dyschotemous things are with the other gates. Animal Kingdom in its current state does very little to help with the resort during problem periods - when most guests dump out of it and head to other parks. More than Avatar, the night show, which will actually keep guests in park during the critical afternoon/late evening periods is a big first fix to the problem. The other parks desperately need to pick up the slack before MK explodes.

Love it or hate it, but Epcot does have the infrastructure to handle more guests (although maybe not the capacity), if for only that reason (and not for thematic reasons) frozen in the short term is a better choice for that park.

The hub and spoke design does have the potential to create the exact kinds of bottlenecks you see on Main St as an single point of ingress/egress will always create that.

Disneyland gets away with its narrow walkways and chokepoints because they have enough capacity to draw people off the streets. Special events aside (New Years, 4th of July, 24hr party, etc.), I contend that you can get around Disneyland and get more accomplished far easier than the Magic Kingdom. Under those special event scenarios, all bets are off for both locations and it's usually the "event" that keeps guests in the streets and contributes to the problems.

When DEMAND exceeds SUPPLY, the end result is always a mess.

The only solution is to keep people away from contributing to the problem and pull them and hold them away from the park with the demand/supply issue.

This is what DCA's refurb has been able to do to a great extent in Anaheim and this is exactly what WDW needs out of DHS and AK with their upcoming "expansion". Let's just hope that the expansion expands capacity and doesn't just create a draw. If these new expansions don't add enough capacity and simply increases demand, then WDW simply has created MK's "problems" in two additional parks.

EPCOT really could step in with significant funding and be a solution as you are correct, by design it can handle far more people on its streets than the other parks. It just needs compelling reasons to visit and keep people there.

Of course, FP+ is compounding the "infrastructure" problem by pulling guests out of line; but, hey - what do we know, we are the people that simply care about the well being of the place.

The people in charge of the place I think are still too content to keep letting more and more guests visit their resort and leave feeling less and less fulfilled... all while spending more money than ever.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Brooksie on the MAGIC of social media.
http://nytimes.com/2014/12/08/busin...social-media-chatter-to-target-hit-films.html

 

[Goofyernmost]

I could see a day when WDW is no longer walk up, buy your ticket, and get in. You purchase your tickets six months out, set up which park you are at which day, all your rides, shows, food etc and then EVERYTHING is preplanned according to a schedule. You see the beginnings of this with MM+. They can max out every park every day by doing this and with minimal wait time to guests since everything is on a set schedule. I would hate it, but this appears to be the direction they are heading, especially if they refuse to add capacity to the parks.

That is what MM+ is all about. That is exactly what the purpose is and what it is achieving. They don't do it yet, but before long once they have maxed out, crowd wise, MK they will simply tell everyone that NO FP's are available, no ADR's are available and then they will suggest which park will have those available and that this is where you should head on that day. That's what I've been saying since it was first talked about. The smallest part of MM+ is supplying FP's for the benefit of the guest. It's is for them to have control over where everyone is at any given time.

 

[Figments Friend]

Unfortunately, this scenario sounds very similar to have many around here have already experienced.

Re: the Cast Members - there has been a change in the quality of service in my opinion and unfortunately, I believe it is directly related to two things: the current attendance load in the parks and the introduction of MM+/FP+. The parks FEEL busier than ever because attendance is going up, attraction capacity is not increasing along with it, and FP+ is taking people out of physical lines and leaving them to roam the streets. In addition, MM+/FP+ has left many of the Cast Members I've spoken with frustrated and feeling helpless as the system is wrought with technical issues and very few solutions at their fingertips to assist guests. Those that I've spoken with feel that they have their hands tied and can't offer anything more than "I'm sorry" to the guests.

Re: FP+ and time management - You hit the nail on the head. The system that is supposed to make things easier and less stressful actually works in the opposite capacity. I refer to FP+ as the Croc from Pan. You play the role of Hook and are always on the lookout for the Croc (time) to catch up with you and spoil your day. The best kind of Disney Magic was and will always be the impromptu and spontaneous moments that you don't expect or plan and FP+ does it best to take all of that away.

The good news is that there is a solution to the way you are feeling. There is a way to restore your belief in Disney Parks and recharge that battery - Disneyland Resort. Next year will be very special as DLR will be celebrating their 60th anniversary and it will be a perfect time to go once the celebration starts.

The problems with WDW these days only magnify with repeat visits. There is still magic there; but, to borrow a promotional phrase from Disney Parks - it's Limited Time Magic these days. The more you visit, the more you realize the resort isn't living up to its potential or even close to the high standards it set for itself decades ago.

Great post.
I was just about to say *Go to Disneyland!!* but you covered it well.

DLR is where to be in 2015.
Just GO....and leave WDW behind.

 

[Figments Friend]

-

Since we are touching on the topic of FP+...



A FP+ option that might actually be worthwhile -




( thanks to AJH219 for originally posting this graphic in another thread )

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

"This is what DCA's refurb has been able to do to a great extent in Anaheim and this is exactly what WDW needs out of DHS and AK with their upcoming "expansion". Let's just hope that the expansion expands capacity and doesn't just create a draw. If these new expansions don't add enough capacity and simply increases demand, then WDW simply has created MK's "problems" in two additional parks."

YES! This is exactly what Cars Land and especially Radiator Springs Racers has accomplished. RSR is the new drawing card at the Disneyland Resort. It was confirmed to me by cast members that folks go into DCA, get a FastPass for the attraction and then move on the other areas. Even go to DL and return to DCA when their return time is ready. The catch? RSR Fastpasses for the day are gone within the hour. Then its the standby or single rider line- which holds tons of people IN queue, not out of it. (Remember those days before FastPass? The pedestrian paths were easy to navigate.)

Just IMAGINE a park with a series of must-see one of a kind attractions done this excellently. Disney and its fans can have its cake and eat it too IF the suits will invest in the highest caliber of attractions. A win/win for everyone, investors and fans.

 

[gonnichi]

Great post.
I was just about to say *Go to Disneyland!!* but you covered it well.

DLR is where to be in 2015.
Just GO....and leave WDW behind.

I went to DLR this fall for one day. It was my first time there. Now it has ruined WDW for me. I'm kinda sad really. I'm definitely going back in Disneyland in 2015. It is so amazing compared to MK. Just seeing how much better Peter Pan was is quite amazing. Disneyland is so tiny but amazing. They really care about giving the guests the best at Disneyland. I went close to Halloween so maybe my view is off a bit, but they rethemed rides just for Halloween!!! The only problem I have with DLR is that I cant spend a whole week there, to many other great things to do in Cal.

 

[njDizFan]

So TWDC spent 2 billion for FP+ and all the required maintenence/upgrades on technological infrastucture(which generally depreciates faster than brick and mortar).

Now by rerouting customer and preplanning experineces, WDW is able to shuffle around enough parkgoers to avoid major expansion/ 5th gate. With the extra benefit of reducing staff when needed and the ability to sell more merchandise. AT the current growth rate, when could we see phase closures during minor holiday weeks? The tipping point is edging closer so that the customer is becoming disgruntled before they get to their first attraction.

 

[Figments Friend]

I went to DLR this fall for one day. It was my first time there. Now it has ruined WDW for me. I'm kinda sad really. I'm definitely going back in Disneyland in 2015. It is so amazing compared to MK. Just seeing how much better Peter Pan was is quite amazing. Disneyland is so tiny but amazing. They really care about giving the guests the best at Disneyland. The only problem I have with DLR is that I cant spend a whole week there, to many other great things to do in Cal.

My most recent visit to DLR this past September i stayed a week and only did the two Parks.
But i will admit i am not your *typical Guest*...

Most folks can do just about everything in both Parks in 4 or 5 days, but i like to take my time and savor every detail.
I also like to re-ride favorites multiple times and do a lot of observation and photography.

It is very VERY easy to stay a week in Southern California even if you are not visiting DLR.
I have done this a couple of times already, and there was still SO much to do and see around the area.

I prefer DLR to WDW these days.
There really is something special out there in CA, and Disneyland will be getting some fantastic additions and upgrades next year.

Every WDW Vet who has plans to visit Florida next year should seriously re-think that option.
Visit California instead. You don*t know what you are missing!
I did*nt until i made the jump...and there is no turning back now.
I love Disneyland!

 

[Mike S]

My most recent visit to DLR this past September i stayed a week and only did the two Parks.
But i will admit i am not your *typical Guest*...

Most folks can do just about everything in both Parks in 4 or 5 days, but i like to take my time and savor every detail.
I also like to re-ride favorites multiple times and do a lot of observation and photography.

It is very VERY easy to stay a week in Southern California even if you are not visiting DLR.
I have done this a couple of times already, and there was still SO much to do and see around the area.

I prefer DLR to WDW these days.
There really is something special out there in CA, and Disneyland will be getting some fantastic additions and upgrades next year.

Every WDW Vet who has plans to visit Florida next year should seriously re-think that option.
Visit California instead. You don*t know what you are missing!
I did*nt until i made the jump...and there is no turning back now.
I love Disneyland!

Making the trip out west in less than two months now. I'm so excited I can't wait for Indiana Jones and Cars Land