The Spirited Back Nine ...

[disneydudette]

Can't you buy 'Park Exclusive' merchandise online? Why is seeing it in an actual Disney Store that far fetched?

My mom hasn't been down since 2007... but she'd love that shirt as a holiday gift. I can't be the only one this holiday season, shopping at malls and stores, with a Disney Parks fan in the family.

I guess I don't see the issue?

Between Disneystore's promotions (free shipping, 2 for $25, etc) and emailed coupons of 10%, 15%, 20% off... it's not difficult to buy 'Park Merchandise' for less, from the comfort of your own home.

Not to mention that DisneyStore.com also has 'exclusive' park merchandise that you can't even find IN the parks... such as attraction specific Tee's like Maelstrom, BTMRR, Snow White, etc.

Even on my last trip to Myrtle Beach, the area outlets had a Disney store... where I purchased 2 Everest shirts for less than $8 each. That was in South Carolina... 6+ hours away.

Outlets are nothing new... most resort guests just don't get the option to visit them 'thanks' to ME and a vacation in the 'bubble.'

I know I can buy two 2-liter bottles of Coke for one 20oz in the park. I know I can stay in a 4-bedroom private home with pool for what it costs to stay at the Polynesian with 35% off. I know I can get better deal on certain merchandise outside of the parks... than what's sold inside.

But you'll still see me sipping on a coke, walking to the monorail, with my newly purchased MouseGears Epcot tee in hand.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Acceptance of declining quality is enabling FURTHER declines in quality, Go to DL or TDL and see the difference between parks that are run to Disney standards as opposed to parks which are run to TDO standards. DL has had it's downs as well but it has a strong LOCAL fanbase who calls out TDA and embarasses them in the press so TDA is forced to run the parks to the standards set by Disney up through the Eisner years.

One of the biggest sticking points between OLC and TWDC is the declining quality at WDW and how the quality declines are hurting OLC's business and how OLC has to constantly counter the damage that WDW is doing to the Disney Theme Park Brand worldwide.

Let's just say the asian parks are an eye opener - visit ANY one of them and you will never see WDW the same way again and the comparison will not be in WDW's favor.

You hit upon the key right there. TDL has a strong LOCAL fanbase who calls out TDA. The few regular people that go to WDW are, by percentage not that significant. As I have stated about a million times until the bottom line starts to show the strain it will not change. It won't be our complaining or even our verbal disgust of lesser quality that will make a difference. It will be forces much bigger then us that will drive change. It has to start with Disney upper management. Until they direct things to improve they will not. They are also conveniently located on the other side of the country completely buffered from any direct anger.

I am not any happier about the decline in quality then you are (although I don't feel it is as god-awful as most of you make it out to be) but, I know how these things work. Only loss of sales or direction from above will alter anything. I have told this story before but I went to DL during the 50th Anniversary Celebration and frankly I found more problems with lack of maintenance there then I have ever seen in WDW. And that was after the big push to "fix" things up for the "party". And that is coming from someone that almost never looks for flaws, however, when they are glaring, I do see them.

Like so many other topics lately, there comes a time when we are just repeating the same old thing for an eternity, so I will close out participation at this time. You are welcome to the last word. I have said, what I think, and nothing as been said yet that has made me think I should change my mind. I'm sure this is true for you as well.

 

[CDavid]

Do what other purveyors of limited edition merchandise do destroy it, When customers get burned by buying high priced 'limited edition' merch and then seeing same merchandise discounted at your usual outlets word gets around and people simply are not that stupid.

Once again poor brand management while stooping for pennies while dollars fly overhead.

The key to limited edition merchandise is keeping it limited

The ideal solution is to better understand your market and to produce specific merchandise which your customers really want to buy in appropriate quantities so you don't end up with boxcars full of unsold items. Disney has a problem in that area, so we end up with lots of generic "Disney Parks" stuff which can be sold nearly anywhere, and a notable avoidance of attraction specific and specialty merchandise (like the new Haunted Mansion shop, an exception to the rule) which Disney execs fear won't sell well (partially because they have a poor understanding of their own customers).

I don't really disagree with your basic points, but I would argue Disney does need places where they can offload items that just didn't sell and recoup the investment - and also so we don't potentially see even fewer specialty items going forward. However, care needs to be taken where and to whom such clearances are offered. Many guests won't buy your $40 shirt in the Magic Kingdom if there is an Disney outlet a mile from their off-site hotel offering the same item for $15.

 

[ford91exploder]

You hit upon the key right there. TDL has a strong LOCAL fanbase who calls out TDA. The few regular people that go to WDW are, by percentage not that significant. As I have stated about a million times until the bottom line starts to show the strain it will not change. It won't be our complaining or even our verbal disgust of lesser quality that will make a difference. It will be forces much bigger then us that will drive change. It has to start with Disney upper management. Until they direct things to improve they will not. They are also conveniently located on the other side of the country completely buffered from any direct anger.

I am not any happier about the decline in quality then you are (although I don't feel it is as god-awful as most of you make it out to be) but, I know how these things work. Only loss of sales or direction from above will alter anything. I have told this story before but I went to DL during the 50th Anniversary Celebration and frankly I found more problems with lack of maintenance there then I have ever seen in WDW. And that was after the big push to "fix" things up for the "party". And that is coming from someone that almost never looks for flaws, however, when they are glaring, I do see them.

Like so many other topics lately, there comes a time when we are just repeating the same old thing for an eternity, so I will close out participation at this time. You are welcome to the last word. I have said, what I think, and nothing as been said yet that has made me think I should change my mind. I'm sure this is true for you as well.

Well said @Goofyernmost, Agree with all the points you make.

One final thought though Spirit notes that THIS board and especially the Spirited threads DO have executive eyeballs on them, One side effect of the cheesesteak/pizza/sammich breaks is that those executive eyes need to keep reading as the thread is not convenient for compartmented reading it's more of a stream of consciousness thread.

 

[ford91exploder]

The ideal solution is to better understand your market and to produce specific merchandise which your customers really want to buy in appropriate quantities so you don't end up with boxcars full of unsold items. Disney has a problem in that area, so we end up with lots of generic "Disney Parks" stuff which can be sold nearly anywhere, and a notable avoidance of attraction specific and specialty merchandise (like the new Haunted Mansion shop, an exception to the rule) which Disney execs fear won't sell well (partially because they have a poor understanding of their own customers).

I don't really disagree with your basic points, but I would argue Disney does need places where they can offload items that just didn't sell and recoup the investment - and also so we don't potentially see even fewer specialty items going forward. However, care needs to be taken where and to whom such clearances are offered. Many guests won't buy your $40 shirt in the Magic Kingdom if there is an Disney outlet a mile from their off-site hotel offering the same item for $15.

No one argues that Disney needs outlets for job lots of excess merchandise (2012 dated items in 2014 etc), The problem is they do not understand their customers/markets so they buy lots of generic junk which can be sold anywhere (and IS) and then they wonder why in park merchandise sales are stagnating.

Hint 'Nothing unique to BUY' - and everything else is available online or at outlet stores for less than you can buy it in the park for.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well said @Goofyernmost, Agree with all the points you make.

One final thought though Spirit notes that THIS board and especially the Spirited threads DO have executive eyeballs on them, One side effect of the cheesesteak/pizza/sammich breaks is that those executive eyes need to keep reading as the thread is not convenient for compartmented reading it's more of a stream of consciousness thread.

Well, I am a little skeptical about the degree of observation being done by those that really count. But, that's another discussion. There is a lot of ego involved in making that claim. Could be true, but, none of the rants have really amounted to any real change has it? And changes that have happened could easily be coincidence.

 

[ford91exploder]

Well, I am a little skeptical about the degree of observation being done by those that really count. But, that's another discussion. There is a lot of ego involved in making that claim. Could be true, but, none of the rants have really amounted to any real change has it? And changes that have happened could easily be coincidence.

True - but better than doing nothing at all.

 

[dupac]

The ideal solution is to better understand your market and to produce specific merchandise which your customers really want to buy in appropriate quantities so you don't end up with boxcars full of unsold items. Disney has a problem in that area, so we end up with lots of generic "Disney Parks" stuff which can be sold nearly anywhere, and a notable avoidance of attraction specific and specialty merchandise (like the new Haunted Mansion shop, an exception to the rule) which Disney execs fear won't sell well (partially because they have a poor understanding of their own customers).

I don't really disagree with your basic points, but I would argue Disney does need places where they can offload items that just didn't sell and recoup the investment - and also so we don't potentially see even fewer specialty items going forward. However, care needs to be taken where and to whom such clearances are offered. Many guests won't buy your $40 shirt in the Magic Kingdom if there is an Disney outlet a mile from their off-site hotel offering the same item for $15.

Completely agree.

Your comment regarding specialty merch reminded me that I also saw Haunted Mansion housewares at the OKC Disney Store as well. I couldn't help but think "didn't they just open a Haunted Mansion store?"

 

[ParentsOf4]

Acceptance of declining quality is enabling FURTHER declines in quality, Go to DL or TDL and see the difference between parks that are run to Disney standards as opposed to parks which are run to TDO standards. DL has had it's downs as well but it has a strong LOCAL fanbase who calls out TDA and embarasses them in the press so TDA is forced to run the parks to the standards set by Disney up through the Eisner years.

One of the biggest sticking points between OLC and TWDC is the declining quality at WDW and how the quality declines are hurting OLC's business and how OLC has to constantly counter the damage that WDW is doing to the Disney Theme Park Brand worldwide.

Let's just say the asian parks are an eye opener - visit ANY one of them and you will never see WDW the same way again and the comparison will not be in WDW's favor.

Whether or not WDW purists like it, Disney's recent strategy to restore WDW profitability has worked. For the first time in over a decade, Parks & Resorts domestic gross margin is back up to a historically normal level. The combination of quality cuts, price hikes, dumbed-down food, special ticket events, and delayed attractions has succeeded financially.

As @Goofyernmost has suggested on many occasions, things won't change until it impacts the bottom line.

Given the steady growth in domestic margin since 2010, Parks & Resorts leadership has every reason to believe the strategies they employed over the last few years worked. Still, this does not mean that they will use the same plan going forward. In American football, a single play can succeed, but the team will lose the game if it runs the same play over-and-over.

We've seen signs that Disney leadership has recognized this. 2014 price increases were lower than the previous 3 years. New bus stops at the Magic Kingdom, the hub redesign, a more entertaining Peter Pan queue, a third track for Toy Story Mania, and a third theater for Soarin' indicate that Disney leadership is willing to spend in order to address WDW's most serious problem: overcrowding. Even if slow in coming, the upcoming DAK and DHS expansions show that Disney leadership knows two theme parks have problems.

Purists are right to say that WDW has changed, and not for the better. WDW is still fun. However, it's no longer 'magical', at least not like the old days.

Now it's just a business, just like any other business. No better, no worse.

 

[1023]

In my mind that's not the definition at all. A true doom and gloomer always finds a problem with everything Disney does no matter what. If Disney doesn't do something they kill them for it. If they do something new and it's actually good and the doom and gloomer can't find a lot of flaws they fall back on either the fact that it's still way overpriced or that Universal is doing it better/faster/cheaper. If all else fails they make fun of the weight/dress/mental capacity of WDW guests.

As a founding member of Team Doom and Gloom, your definition of us matches me not at all.... That's the problem.... A "Doom and Gloom" member here is closer to a "realist", more so, than a "pixie duster". I know that I have plenty of things to say about WDW and most of them are good. As a "Doom and Gloom" member, you point out the things that are falling short. Some of us focus on "show", while others focus on "staleness". Still others see multiple areas all at once.

I have not once negatively commented about anyone's mental capacity or illness. I haven't addressed anyone's weight negatively, or perhaps at all. I did offer an opinion on a thread soliciting it about women's fashion choices for the parks. (The thread started out addressing comfort and not necessarily style.)

Just to note, a list of a few general things I think are great at WDW:

1.) Four separate and distinctly different themed parks centered around a brand I love.
2.) The enormity of the space used and still available.
3.) Dozens of themed resorts in varying price ranges with many unique features.
4.) A well planned transportation system available for all visitors.
5.) So many attractions (rides) and restaurants to experience each visit.

The thing I have been most vocally negative about is the roll out and implementation of the boondoggle known as MyMagic+ and it's associated ilk.

It's hard to define others for they rarely get the opportunity to tell you who they are.

*1023*

 

[Magenta Panther]

Whether or not WDW purists like it, Disney's recent strategy to restore WDW profitability has worked. For the first time in over a decade, Parks & Resorts domestic gross margin is back up to a historically normal level. The combination of quality cuts, price hikes, dumbed-down food, special ticket events, and delayed attractions has succeeded financially.

As @Goofyernmost has suggested on many occasions, things won't change until it impacts the bottom line.

Given the steady growth in domestic margin since 2010, Parks & Resorts leadership has every reason to believe the strategies they employed over the last few years worked. Still, this does not mean that they will use the same plan going forward. In American football, a single play can succeed, but the team will lose the game if it runs the same play over-and-over.

We've seen signs that Disney leadership has recognized this. 2014 price increases were lower than the previous 3 years. New bus stops at the Magic Kingdom, the hub redesign, a more entertaining Peter Pan queue, a third track for Toy Story Mania, and a third theater for Soarin' indicate that Disney leadership is willing to spend in order to address WDW's most serious problem: overcrowding. Even if slow in coming, the upcoming DAK and DHS expansions show that Disney leadership knows two theme parks have problems.

Purists are right to say that WDW has changed, and not for the better. WDW is still fun. However, it's no longer 'magical', at least not like the old days.

Now it's just a business, just like any other business. No better, no worse.

And that's what happens when you have a CEO without a single creative bone in his body. All Iger knows is stocks and brand leverage. Feh.

 

[Funmeister]

4.) A well planned transportation system available for all visitors.

With all due respect...when it may take you over an hour (sometimes an hour and a half or more) to get from one Disney destination to the next I hardly consider that a "well planned" transportation system.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Purists are right to say that WDW has changed, and not for the better. WDW is still fun. However, it's no longer 'magical', at least not like the old days.

Now it's just a business, just like any other business. No better, no worse.

Thats what is so annoying though. Disney has always been a business, yes, but it also realized that its success was, in large part, based on its brand and quality. The Disney parks were successful not because they were theme parks, but because they were far and away the BEST theme parks. It was the little touches, the extras, the things that look like waste on an Excel spreadsheet but that actually add so much to the guest experience - those things were the Disney difference. Cutting those may make the financials look great, but it can be hugely damaging for the brand over the long term. You'd think Iger, someone who loves branding and synergy, would realize this.

And whats true of Disney is true of just about all of Corporate America these days. Its cut offerings and raise prices. Benefits, 401Ks, hourly pay, vacation time - all have been reduced or stagnant in the last decade. It looks great on the company's bottom line, but its terrible for country and the economy in the long run.

 

[BrerJon]

I'm a certified D&Ger and I like this years Jingle Cruise.

That was basically my point - everyone who gets labelled, or self-labels as a doom and gloomer, tends to actually quite often have very positive things to say, which is why it's annoying when people say they just complain for the sake of it. Look at the reaction to the TCM sponsorship of GMR; pretty much unanimous praise from everyone supposedly in the 'doom and gloom' camp.

 

[BrerJon]

However, care needs to be taken where and to whom such clearances are offered. Many guests won't buy your $40 shirt in the Magic Kingdom if there is an Disney outlet a mile from their off-site hotel offering the same item for $15.

I suspect lots of guests who never even venture off-property don't even know the nearby Disney outlets in the malls exist.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Thats what is so annoying though. Disney has always been a business, yes, but it also realized that its success was, in large part, based on its brand and quality. The Disney parks were successful not because they were theme parks, but because they were far and away the BEST theme parks. It was the little touches, the extras, the things that look like waste on an Excel spreadsheet but that actually add so much to the guest experience - those things were the Disney difference. Cutting those may make the financials look great, but it can be hugely damaging for the brand over the long term. You'd think Iger, someone who loves branding and synergy, would realize this.

And whats true of Disney is true of just about all of Corporate America these days. Its cut offerings and raise prices. Benefits, 401Ks, hourly pay, vacation time - all have been reduced or stagnant in the last decade. It looks great on the company's bottom line, but its terrible for country and the economy in the long run.

The traditional Disney theme park model worked well for decades. However, empowered by Michael Eisner, Paul Pressler and Jay Rasulo broke it at the being of this century. Ever since, corporate Disney has struggled to restore Parks & Resorts profitability.

If Disney's current Parks & Resorts leadership had the creative talent of the predecessors that Eisner effectively fired, then it would have been possible to restore that old model.

For the most part, the people leading today's Disney are business people that could be running any Fortune 500 company. They resorted to a business-based model to restore profitability. With the right leadership, WDW could have been restored to its former grandeur and been profitable. That type of leadership no longer is allowed to make decisions at WDW.

Staggs and his minions lack creative talent. They simply went with what they knew, which was not based on the success that Walt Disney created.

 

[Mike S]

I'm a certified D&Ger and I like this years Jingle Cruise.

I'm a fan as well. Wish I did it more than just once on my trip. If Jingle Cruise is successful, who knows? Maybe we can finally get other holiday overlays in the future (Haunted Mansion Holiday, please Disney).

Completely agree.

Your comment regarding specialty merch reminded me that I also saw Haunted Mansion housewares at the OKC Disney Store as well. I couldn't help but think "didn't they just open a Haunted Mansion store?"

I saw some of the Haunted Mansion merch at the outlet in Sawgrass Mall. Just some plates and picture frames I think it was.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Staggs and his minions lack creative talent. They simply went with what they knew, which was not based on the success that Walt Disney created.

Absolutely true. Just look at the company's past and you can see its greatest successes were also its greatest risks. Walt literally bet everything on creating Snow White, and later Disneyland. Even EPCOT Center in the 70s/80s was a huge financial and creative risk for the company. But in each of those cases, there was the belief that the risk was worth it because the quality of the final product would reap long term rewards.

Today's Disney doesn't have 1/1000th of that belief. It puts its faith in "established" products (Marvel, Star Wars, etc.) rather than in its own creative endeavors (Frozen). And thats quite sad.

 

[Phil12]

Well said @Goofyernmost, Agree with all the points you make.

One final thought though Spirit notes that THIS board and especially the Spirited threads DO have executive eyeballs on them, One side effect of the cheesesteak/pizza/sammich breaks is that those executive eyes need to keep reading as the thread is not convenient for compartmented reading it's more of a stream of consciousness thread.

That is known as a spirited self esteem booster.

 

[Phil12]

Today's Disney doesn't have 1/1000th of that belief. It puts its faith in "established" products (Marvel, Star Wars, etc.) rather than in its own creative endeavors (Frozen). And thats quite sad.

Yes, we need more Frozen. I'm looking forward to Olaf's Hawaiian Holiday.