The Spirited Back Nine ...

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
When I hear people like yourself and @WDWFigment say such things, at the same time people who worked on O-Town's best new offerings at DA are saying it, it makes me feel good because I really fell in love with HKDL the first sweltering day I spent there back in 2008. And it just keeps getting better all the time.

I think it says something that the first Disney park annual pass I've ever gotten -- and this is after extensively visiting the U.S. parks for decades -- is for HKDL. Of course, it helps that you can get an AP for HKDL (called "Magic Access") starting at about $30 more than a 2-day ticket... and that the AP allows you to easily save many times that amount just on the cost of staying at one of the on-site hotels, which are both fantastic.

On top of that, the discount on food and merch can also come in handy when you feel tempted to buy out a good chunk of the Archive Shop -- which is stocked full of very nice merchandise themed specifically to Mystic Manor/Mystic Point. In addition to the usual pins, shirts, and plush (the several plush variants of Albert were extremely popular), I appreciated the fact that the store also offered items specifically targeted to the adult Disney fan demographic.

Things like S.E.A. (Society of Explorers and Adventurers, part of a thematic backstory that links HKDL with TDS) leather passport covers and luggage tags, and a very cool polo shirt, are nice enough to warrant a purchase by the casual visitor, but have that extra additional appeal to a diehard Disney fan. To me, this says that the park actually cares about all of its demographic bases, and not just the broadest possible swath of the general public. It's a lesson that some of the domestic parks are only starting to learn -- that catering at the same time to casual, "once in a lifetime" visitors and to diehard Disney fanatics is not a mutually exclusive proposition. (It wasn't just Mystic Point that had "land"-specific merchandise -- Grizzly Gulch and Toy Story Land also featured a wide variety of items themed specifically to their respective areas. And not once did a merchandise CM fail to ask whether I was an AP when they ran me up -- a fact I appreciated, as it ensured that I received my AP discount on every purchase.)

But in this area, as in many others, HKDL has seen tremendous improvements since I first visited in 2007. I remember trying in vain to find a nice, HKDL-specific T-shirt on that visit -- and the pins and plush on offer were all of the generic "Disney parks" variety. What a difference a few years make -- not to mention the determination by park management to commit to quality and detail over a "lowest common denominator" mentality.

This commitment has clearly permeated down to the CM level. I remember encountering a number of indifferent CMs during my first visit 7 years ago. In addition, despite the fact that HK was a British colony for over a century, I found that many CMs were unwilling or unable to effectively communicate in English with guests. This time around, every CM I encountered was at least proficient in English, if not fluent -- there certainly seemed to be a higher percentage of English-speaking CMs than at TDR. Furthermore, every CM I met was unfailingly polite, helpful, and competent. Even when a particular CM at a store might not know about the availability of a specific type of merchandise, for example, they were able to immediately find a store manager who was both fluent in English and thoroughly knowledgeable. I had many highly enjoyable conversations with CMs, both in the park and hotels, and I felt that HKDL CMs across the board really understand and embrace what it means to work for a Disney theme park.

There were countless examples of CMs going the extra mile to ensure that I had what Disney might characterize as a "magical" vacation. At HKDL, however, the "magic" was more than just lip service -- it was going the extra mile to tend to a guest, not because you're going to get a monetary bonus or some sort of formal recognition, but because it's inherent in the brand of the company you're working for. In short, I really felt the "Disney difference" at HKDL -- something that's been sorely lacking at some of the company's other parks for a long time.

On several occasions, CMs who saw me taking photos, or expressing a particular interest in theming or some other aspect of the park, took the time not only to engage me in conversation, but went out of the way to make the interaction special. In the Main Street Corner Cafe, this meant not only taking a photo of me with my meal, but gathering a group of CMs to help photograph me with a very amusing prop. And after I'd ridden Mystic Manor a couple of times, some CMs recognized me. We had a nice conversation about the attraction, which ended up with them presenting me a beautiful, illustrated and personalized certificate featuring Lord Henry and Albert -- something I would gladly have paid for had it been for sale. (I won't even mention all the stickers and other ephemera that I was given over the course of my visit.)

These are the sorts of interactions that you see depicted in the photos in Disney brochures and websites -- the kind of spontaneous embodiments of so-called "magic" that are actually increasingly rare in real life. The fact that so many HKDL CMs took the time to engage an adult visitor in such a fashion (not to mention a visitor from the U.S., who was unlikely to return to the park in the near future) really amazed and impressed me.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
This WAS at WDW. Underneath Spaceship Earth. (And next to me was a CM taking a picture, too).

Perhaps it was a 'Meet & Greet' (complete with Photopass) advertising TDO's commitment to park cleanliness. :eek:

:hungover::hungover::hungover: Cue the brand advocate who will tell us the 'parks are better and cleaner than ever' :hungover::hungover::hungover:

The small bunnies you see around the 'World are cute, This is simply disgusting:hungover::hungover::hungover:
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
When John Lasseter came on board at Disney, I guess I expected him to take over the entire entertainment and theme parks divisions. To be the "go-to" guy for any final decisions on any of Disney's creative endeavors. Very unrealistic and unfair of me, I know. There was, after all, only one Walt. Lasseter has, nonetheless, been a very important part of Disney's recent success. Too bad he's currently embroiled in a wage-fixing scandal (basically, he and Catmull, among others, conspired with other animation studios to screw over animators with wage-fixing schemes - to prevent other studios from "poaching" artists, i.e. offering them better pay and benefits than were offered by their current employer, a situation which would lead to higher wages for the guys who make those lucrative characters come to life, which in turn would lead to smaller bonuses for the suits. Oooh, can't let that happen, NO sir. And btw, that kind of jerk behavior is not capitalism at its worst. It's totally not how capitalism is supposed to work. It'll be interesting to see how Lasseter and his cronies get out of this one. Because, sadly, I think they probably will.)

No this is Crony Capitalism or as John Stossel sums it 'C--pitalism', Although I'm pretty sure that the dynamic duo of 'Staggs-n-Rasulo' are trying to grease the skids for a Lasseter/Catmull 'forced exit' as it would remove two top contenders for the top slot when Iger steps down.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
When John Lasseter came on board at Disney, I guess I expected him to take over the entire entertainment and theme parks divisions. To be the "go-to" guy for any final decisions on any of Disney's creative endeavors. Very unrealistic and unfair of me, I know. There was, after all, only one Walt. Lasseter has, nonetheless, been a very important part of Disney's recent success. Too bad he's currently embroiled in a wage-fixing scandal (basically, he and Catmull, among others, conspired with other animation studios to screw over animators with wage-fixing schemes - to prevent other studios from "poaching" artists, i.e. offering them better pay and benefits than were offered by their current employer, a situation which would lead to higher wages for the guys who make those lucrative characters come to life, which in turn would lead to smaller bonuses for the suits. Oooh, can't let that happen, NO sir. And btw, that kind of jerk behavior is not capitalism at its worst. It's totally not how capitalism is supposed to work. It'll be interesting to see how Lasseter and his cronies get out of this one. Because, sadly, I think they probably will.)
Well cronyism puts money in the suits' pockets, so there won't be much of a change in the near future I think...
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
my only guess is the need ride capacity asap and TSPL gives them a quick option while the big stuff is under construction

Or placing my Cynic hat on - it allows them to see if a $150 million flat ride/TSMM upgrade package will maintain current gate, if so, It will be ALL DHS gets. Sorry kiddies but if TDO can maintain gate at historic norms at DHS WITHOUT spending a billion plus THEY WILL.

Remember TWDC considers parks a 'mature' business ie no growth. It will take UNI beating at least one Orlando park for a couple of years running to make them rethink current strategy
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Just a follow-up post (since the last one was getting a bit long) about the attractions, food, and theming at HKDL...

Although HKDL was light on attractions for a number of years after it opened, what was there was generally done well and maintained well. With the additions of Toy Story Land, Grizzly Gulch, and Mystic Point, HKDL has really stepped up its game.

As I mentioned in my first "quick hit" post, you could drop Mystic Point as-is into TDS and not see a difference in the quality and scope of theming. I have no problem with the fact that the land has only one real attraction -- not when it's an E-ticket plus attraction like Mystic Manor. In this regard, I much prefer quality over quantity... for example, dropping a Magic Carpets-type spinner into the land, solely for the purpose of upping the attraction count, would detract from the atmosphere far more than it would contribute.

Although Mystic Point's restaurant, the Explorer's Club, is counter service, it's one of the most intricately themed restaurants in any Disney park. The attention to detail is evident in the quality of materials used -- the heavy wood chairs (carved with MM/MP logos) and the intricate, inlaid stone work in the tables are substantially nicer than what you see in most of WDW's table service restaurants. The furniture is even themed appropriately to its respective setting, as the tables and chairs are different in each of the restaurant's culture-specific rooms (China, India, Egypt, Russia, and Morocco).

Overlooked a bit in the excitement over Mystic Manor is HKDL's Frontierland-analogue, Grizzly Gulch. I love the fact that Grizzly Gulch and its star attraction, the Big Grizzly Mountain Runaway Mine Cars, were designed to mesh together and interact in a very organic fashion -- the walkways through Grizzly Gulch pass over and beside BGM's tracks, so you really feel that the mine tracks are an intrinsic part of the landscape, rather than something you observe from a distance, like BTM. The same effect is true for Grizzly Gulch's various buildings -- a bank, mercantile, etc. that have been overtaken by an operational geyser field. Even though Grizzly Gulch is not quite as extensive as the MK's Frontierland, the fact that you can walk around and through many of the buildings that constitute the "town" lend it a feeling of greater verisimilitude. You feel like you're in a real town, albeit a modestly-sized one, rather than walking along a long series of building facades. (I also loved the background music in Grizzly Gulch, which, along with the superb lighting on BGM after the sun sets, is wonderfully evocative of traditional romantic notions of the Old West.)

As for Big Grizzly Mountain, it's an amazing coaster that has a couple of enjoyable twists (along with some nicely animated Animatronic bears). It takes the Expedition Everest formula and dramatically improves upon it -- although BGM doesn't have any big drops, it does have surprising moments of speed that, coupled with the track layout, give some good pops of airtime. I personally loved the ride, but if I have one minor quibble, it's due to the ride being built by Vekoma. As such, it has a very similar "ride feel" as other Vekoma-built Disney coasters, like Everest and DLP's Big Thunder Mountain, despite having a completely unique layout. In other words, the coaster feels "butter smooth" in a way that, say, the MK's BTM does not. In a sense, BGM is to the MK's BTM much as DL's Space Mountain is to the MK's Space Mountain. There's no feeling of "ricketiness" to BGM, which some might argue is part and parcel of the theming of any "runaway mine train" type coaster. (I personally like a little bit of roughness to my coasters, which is why I generally prefer the MK's BTM to DLP's arguably better-themed version.)

Even Toy Story Land is extremely well done. Although it features the same attractions as its counterpart in Paris, HKDL's version feels like a full-fledged, completely developed land, due in part to better attraction placement and the addition of a dedicated shop, food kiosk, and (yes) land-specific bathrooms. I found myself won over by TSL in HKDL, despite initially having serious reservations about the land and whether an explicitly "modern" area had any place in a Magic Kingdom-type park, as such parks traditionally feature only themed settings rooted in the past or future.

Although I attribute part of TSL's appeal to the fantastic CMs and even the food offerings (whether or not you like pineapple Dole Whip, you'll likely love mango Dole Whip, as I did), I honestly think I was won over by the sheer amount of joyful energy permeating the land. TSL always felt lively and full of families having fun together, even beyond the generally happy vibe throughout the park. In short, it felt like everything you would expect a Disney park to be. With the addition of TSMM in a few years (the pathway/entrance to TSMM's location is already built), TSL should more than hold its own as a respectable contributor to a place that has rapidly become one of my favorite Disney parks.

I also mentioned it's a small world in my initial post. I'd argue that small world, more than any other attraction, really exemplifies what HKDL has gotten right. For starters, most of the other small worlds have largely been direct adaptations of a 1960s-era conception of relevant world cultures. With a fully-developed Asia section that includes substantial depictions of a number of Asian cultures, HKDL's small world finally transcends the abbreviated versions of Asia elsewhere that feature little more than a small handful of dolls spinning plates and bowing in kimonos. Even more important, however, is how well executed the ride is -- as an initial matter, HKDL's small world gets it right by employing Mary Blair's familiar aesthetic. (One of the reasons I've never really warmed up to DLP's small world is the fact that it foregoes Blair's stylized depictions of world landscapes and architecture in lieu of cartoony versions. As such, DLP's small world is undeniably "colorful," but loses most of the ride's original charms.)

Something that doesn't come across in POV ride-throughs of HKDL's small world is the excellence of the attraction's lighting design. Lighting is something that isn't often discussed with regard to attractions, but it absolutely makes a difference, and I hope that whoever was in charge of the lighting design got a big fat raise. From the color-changing plaid hills of Scotland to the glowing, shimmering water ripples in Africa, the lighting effects add immeasurably to the attraction.

On top of that, every single doll, effect, and light bulb (on both the inside and outside of the attraction) was in perfect working order. Believe me... I went on the ride three times and made an effort to find even a single burnt-out bulb: there were none. The facade of the ride features the parade of dolls and functioning clock seen at DL, but the queue is almost entirely indoors, like that of the MK -- very helpful when you're somewhere that's as hot and humid as HK can be. In short, HKDL's small world really embodies what HKDL has done right because it takes something that's pedestrian and dramatically improves upon it.

Many of HKDL's guests are first-time visitors from parts of the world where, arguably, things like burnt-out light bulbs and non-moving dolls don't make a lick of difference. I'm sure that the vast majority of HKDL's visitors wouldn't think any less of the park or of the Disney company if a ride as unexciting as small world was only a cheap, abridged version of the ride, or even if it was falling into disrepair. (Moreover, very few of them will have even seen another version of small world, so they wouldn't know if they'd gotten a clearly inferior copy.) Why, then, take so much time and effort to make sure that the attraction is not only the best possible version of the ride, but also that every minute facet of it is in perfect working order? That is the "Disney difference" -- ensuring that your product is of the highest possible quality simply on principle, and not because you think you need to in order to earn a few extra bucks. It's something that Disney parks elsewhere, but especially in Orlando, appear to have forgotten.

Yes, you did say that. But, to be fair, I've seen you act that way everytime we dine out and your food arrives at the table!:D

I will close by saying that I really enjoyed the food at HKDL, but especially the sweets (wish I could get that mango Dole Whip at WDW!) and drinks. HKDL has really aced the sweet-snack challenge, much as Universal has in Orlando with its various Harry Potter offerings. The Blueberry Myst and Grizzly Geyser drinks were great, but what I really loved was the Main Street Corner Cafe's Popcorn Carnival, a caramel-flavored milkshake that's topped with caramel corn. :D

What else? HKDL's Halloween offerings were great... and included in the price of admission. The two walk-through haunted houses were almost as highly detailed and themed as an E-ticket ride-through attraction. They were appropriately creepy and scary without being gory, and I thought they struck the perfect balance of being dark and edgy while still being distinctively Disney. Something similar would work wonderfully in the domestic parks... which is why I doubt we'll see anything anytime soon!
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
No this is Crony Capitalism or as John Stossel sums it 'C--pitalism', Although I'm pretty sure that the dynamic duo of 'Staggs-n-Rasulo' are trying to grease the skids for a Lasseter/Catmull 'forced exit' as it would remove two top contenders for the top slot when Iger steps down.
Lasseter and/or Catmull have never been contenders for the top job.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
My avatar: 'Rizzo' Taken at WDW.
OK, so now I see, there is a mouse/rat that is spotted in WDW so therefore it is less clean then it used to be. OK, what does that have to do with cleanliness? WDW, as far as I remember is located in the great outdoors, plopped within a large swamp and many pastures, and some of nature had the nerve to show up? How much do you want to bet that there are and have been mass amounts of vermin that live within the cracks and crevices of WDW. That's why the don't try and stop the "non-venomous" snakes from occupying the rivers and ponds of WDW as well. That's the very reason why in Disneyland they have the feral Cats roaming around the park. Tourists in all there wisdom scatter food about, thrash cans contain food that was thrown in there by the more thoughtful tourists. Rodents are attracted to loose food. I've had mice invade my home at one point. Are you saying that my house wasn't clean?

Really nothing to be even a little concerned about. If that is known as Brand Advocate, so be it. But you are asking, no, demanding that Disney prevent that from happening. How, do you propose that they do that without harming the Eco-culture of the surrounding area? Should they poison them? Should they send crews out to shoot them on sight? Should they set about a billion mouse traps randomly around the area? Just how do you stop nature from invading any wide open to the world, piece of land. Much ado about nothing!
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
Really nothing to be even a little concerned about. If that is known as Brand Advocate, so be it. But you are asking, no, demanding that Disney prevent that from happening. How, do you propose that they do that without harming the Eco-culture of the surrounding area? Should they poison them?

To be fair to Disney many of the bushes in the parks have rat poison traps hidden in them.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member

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