The Spirited Back Nine ...

[SirLink]

It would be if the competition was delivering better results than Disney and Pixar animation. But it isn't, both divisions are thriving with Lasseter at the helm. The parks are another matter.

Eh?... I'm strictly talking animation quality.

Even though I think I hate all Disney's animated output bar maybe Ratatouille, the only bearable movie.

 

[71jason]

According to a friend of mine, an Elsa and Anna led a Frozen SingAlong at the Winterfest Kickoff in Sevierville,TN last night

A college friend of mine in Spokane has a teen daughter who has made a cottage industry dressing herself and her sister up and working birthday parties.

Obviously all of these could be shut down in a heartbeat by Disney Legal but only so much time in the day, not sure this is ultimately costing the company anything. If anything, it fuels the phenomenon even more. Girls at a fake Elsa sing-along are more likely to want a Disney-approved Elsa doll at Christmas.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

@SirLink
I don't fully agree with your desire to see budgets on these films cut just because someone else, with government tax breaks, does it cheaper, there are ways to cut down the budgets without sacrificing quality TO A POINT. I'll let Steve Hullet speak, but films like "Brave" and "Monsters U." for Pixar and "Big Hero 6" have expensive, but necessary R&D costs that will pay dividends long term.

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2013/11/lower-budgets.html?m=1
Most animation studios that I know about, union or otherwise, could produce theatrical animated features for under $100 million. But they would have to do a few things differently, like for instance:

1) Stop hiring big name stars for voice roles that could be better done by professional voice actors. Disney used this business model for years. Outside of Bing Crosby on "Ichabod Crane," I can't think of many super stars Walt employed on his cartoons. Radio and character actors filled the parts better, so they were the ones who got the gigs.

2) Tie the movie down in story. Work the whole thing out before heavy duty production. Get the character and production design set. Then put the animated feature into work. (I know of one big budget cartoon feature, fortunately a hit, that kept morphing and changing and running up a bigger and bigger tab as sequences were put into animation, pulled out of animation, then put into animation. Note to management: This gets expensive.)

3) Rely more on top-notch board artists and less on A-list, live-action screen writers who don't know the medium and often produce expensive, unsuitable screenplays that either have to be heavily revised or thrown out and replaced with something else.

4) Stop overgilding the lily. "Ultra realistic" isn't always the best solution. Because computers can render every feather on a bird or blade of grass on a rolling hillside doesn't mean all that rendering has to be done. Illumination Entertainment designs films that work well for the story being told but don't cost a jillion dollars in fancy visuals. More expensive doesn't necessarily make for a better movie. More expensive sometimes gets in the way.

5) Strive for a lean administrative staff. Administration is a needed component inside a studio, but it doesn't add artistic value. So it's wise to make admin as large as it needs to be, but no larger. (When administrators are calling lots of meetings that accomplish little beyond slowing down the creation of the picture, that means there are too many of them.)
Twenty-one years ago, Disney's Aladdinwas released. It cost $28 million and grossed over $217 million in the U.S. and Canada. Adjusted for inflation, the Arabian Nights tale would cost $46,729,665.00today. So what was the crew -- many of whom are still working in the biz two decades later -- doing right?

* The screenwriters were young, energetic, and loved animation. And because they were not yet big names, they didn't cost an arm and a leg.

* The story director was one of the best board artists in the business.

* The directors were experienced veterans with multiple quality features under their belts.

* The animators and designers and technical staff were all seasoned professionals.

* Disney Feature Animation was on a roll, racking up hit after hit. The department's chops were up, and the staff had a lot of self-confidence.

There is no hard and fast formula for creating successful animated features. It's art, after all, not science. But running up unnecessary costs adds nothing.

 

[SirLink]

I would love to hear these necessary R+D costs for these films, as they were pretty bland films.

If this expensive R+D was necessary the next films would be cheaper but they are not ...

 

[FrankLapidus]

@SirLink
I don't fully agree with your desire to see budgets on these films cut just because someone else, with government tax breaks, does it cheaper, there are ways to cut down the budgets without sacrificing quality TO A POINT. I'll let Steve Hullet speak, but films like "Brave" and "Monsters U." for Pixar and "Big Hero 6" have expensive, but necessary R&D costs that will pay dividends long term.

Fair points but if he's using Aladdin as an example then its worth remembering that when that film was made, Disney pretty much was the mainstream animation industry. Its easier to dictate smaller budgets when there is no competition, when studios like Pixar and DreamWorks came along then costs went up; the top animators and artists could ask for more money because if they were not going to get it at Disney, Katzenberg was waiting for them at DreamWorks. Marketing costs went up, star power became more prevalent.

You're right about R&D costs and Disney's success in merchandising their animated films has also allowed for bigger budgets. Its hard to argue with their strategy when in the past four years Disney and Pixar have both released films that have broken the billion dollar barrier and set new industry records.

 

[WildcatDen]

I totally agree on that one, but you do have to get Lee to show you Dollywood at Christmastime!

Dolly and Wood just seem to be a natural 'pairing'. . .

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

the top animators and artists could ask for more money because if they were not going to get it at Disney, Katzenberg was waiting for them at DreamWorks. Marketing costs went up, star power became more prevalent.

Not anymore! Flawless golden boys like Ed Catmull have engaged in illegal wage fixing agreements to keep that from happening! Maaaaagical

 

[TeriofTerror]

I honestly don't care about WDAS or Pixar related content, I find it generally all too sickly sweet for myself ... I would rather they save around $100million per animated feature and place that extra money into a money earner for the company like Parks and Resorts. Considering that DM2 and Toy Story 3 did similar numbers WW ... I wish they would spend less.

Words are coming out of your mouth. They don't make any sense.

 

[TomP]

Obviously all of these could be shut down in a heartbeat by Disney Legal

Actually, I think the Elsa sing-a-long at out local beer depot went quite well.....

 

[jdmdisney99]

I would bet some of these places are trying to fly under the radar with this stuff. Here's a video of a Frozen sing along done in Ocean City, NJ over the summer. I would be surprised if Disney approved this.

Yep, I saw the long line to meet ripoff Elsa when I was visiting over the summer. Too petty for legal top get involved I guess.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Not anymore! Flawless golden boys like Ed Catmull have engaged in illegal wage fixing agreements to keep that from happening! Maaaaagical

I was flicking through his autobiography at DHS this year and one of the CM's asked me what I thought about that but I had no idea what she was talking about. Its slipped my mind since but I'll have to look it up, thanks for inadvertently reminding me.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I was flicking through his autobiography at DHS this year and one of the CM's asked me what I thought about that but I had no idea what she was talking about. Its slipped my mind since but I'll have to look it up, thanks for inadvertently reminding me.

Pando Daily has done some excellent reporting on the arrangements between the studios, which is part of a larger no hiring cartel in Silicon Valley.
http://pando.com/2014/07/07/reveale...imation-in-silicon-valley-wage-fixing-cartel/

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I would love to hear these necessary R+D costs for these films, as they were pretty bland films.

If this expensive R+D was necessary the next films would be cheaper but they are not ...

Brave and Monsters U: Overhaul of animation software with Presto
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tech/watch-a-rare-demo-of-pixars-animation-system-presto-98099.html
Introduction of Global Illumination with Monsters U.:http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/21/4...d-the-way-light-works-for-monsters-university
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/monsters-university-rendering-physically-based-monsters/

Big Hero 6: Hyperion Global Illumination System
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/disneys-new-production-renderer-hyperion-yes-disney/

 

[Figments Friend]

I've never seen Treasure Planet but ever since joining this board I've had a growing feeling that I have to.

Highly recommend a viewing.
A interesting twist to the ol' 'Treasure Planet' story...with some gorgeous artwork and cool concepts.
Excellent animation too, particularly Silver and Dr. Doppler.

To this day i am convinced 'Treasure Planet' would have been a bigger box office success if it came out just a couple of years later then it's actual release date.
The world was 'pirate crazy' after the huge success of 'POTC: Curse of the Black Pearl' and having 'Treasure' as a follow up shorty afterwards would have made it a huge hit.
At the time of it's release, i think it was largely ignored...which is a shame as it was very well done.

 

[sshindel]

Brave and Monsters U: Overhaul of animation software with Presto
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tech/watch-a-rare-demo-of-pixars-animation-system-presto-98099.html
Introduction of Global Illumination with Monsters U.:http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/21/4...d-the-way-light-works-for-monsters-university
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/monsters-university-rendering-physically-based-monsters/

Big Hero 6: Hyperion Global Illumination System
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/disneys-new-production-renderer-hyperion-yes-disney/

That third article brought up a point that I had never once considered, which I feel utterly idiotic for missing and missing how huge an advantage it gave Disney.

But each content creation group (ILM, Pixar, etc) has their own pipelines, and this helps “innovate forward as fast as we can.” Each group does individual “computer graphics experiments and then shares the outcomes with the other groups,” he explains.

Thank you for posting those, even though all the talk of lighting gave me flashbacks to 15 years ago in Computer Graphics class in college trying to get one measly light source to show up correctly on the screen!

 

[BrerJon]

Seems to be dumped in January, but then again, last time they did this Disney released the $36 million budget Gnomeo and Juliet (as a Touchstone film) in February 2011 and it made $200 million.

This is very odd, and quite out of the blue, but because they've kept it such a surprise, and the surrounding internet hype this will make, I can see it doing very well indeed. Can anyone else think of a film of that scale that has been kept secret until a few weeks before release?

Even the animation community hadn't heard anything about the film until yesterday. When Disney first registered the 'Strange Magic' domains, many thought it was for a Frozen sequel.

There's no scheduled international dates (probably not to compete with Big Hero 6 which doesn't open in many countries until next year), and no trailers have been seen... it's like the movie just dropped out of the sky, which makes me think there's a pretty interesting story behind its production, or at least the marketing strategy.

It's animated by Lucasfilm in Singapore who have done well on Rebels and Clone Wars, so it's unlikely to be a total dud either as they usually do a good job. This ain't no DisneyToon Planes.

 

[ProfSavage]

Nothing to add, just wanted to use this animated gif...

 

[BrerJon]

I disagree. I thought the humor in the show works well for adults. It was written (in mere weeks) by a veteran of the Bill & Ted show, and I think that definitely helps it. Some talented comedic performers, as well--a lot of Comedy Warehouse/Adventurers Club alumni.

Ah that's interesting, I'm not surprised to learn that though, I definitely got that vibe from it. The sing-a-long concept is pretty excruciating for anyone not the target audience, but most people seem to really enjoy the Storytellers side of it. Any show that basically winks and says 'yeah I know parents, you're sick of this and hate it', while in an official park, is doing something right.

 

[BrerJon]

A college friend of mine in Spokane has a teen daughter who has made a cottage industry dressing herself and her sister up and working birthday parties.

Obviously all of these could be shut down in a heartbeat by Disney Legal but only so much time in the day, not sure this is ultimately costing the company anything. If anything, it fuels the phenomenon even more. Girls at a fake Elsa sing-along are more likely to want a Disney-approved Elsa doll at Christmas.

There definitely seems to be far less of a heavy-handed legal approach to things nowadays. I wonder how much influence Star Wars has had on that?

Many years ago Lucas made a public statement that they weren't going to go after anyone making fan films, costumes, or any activity that wasn't making a profit, and indeed ran a fan film festival to encourage it. That did nothing to harm the popularity of Star Wars, so maybe Disney is learning a lesson or two?

 

[BrerJon]

I was flicking through his autobiography at DHS this year and one of the CM's asked me what I thought about that but I had no idea what she was talking about. Its slipped my mind since but I'll have to look it up, thanks for inadvertently reminding me.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business...figure-in-the-wage-fixing-scandal-101362.html