The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[Gabe1]

What everybody seems to miss on the Deluxe price increases is that Disney has to keep dramatically increasing hotel prices, so that they can dramatically increase DVC prices and yet still try and make it look like a good deal by comparison in the sales pitch.

The business model is do everything possible to jack up revenue from the cash-cow DVC, and if they can also get people to pay more for regular hotel stays, that is gravy.

I know there isn't an answer but I wonder what the saturation point is with DVCs. The Poly should be easy, there is that fan base. But money to borrow is tighter. People with real money are brighter and just pay. A decade ago people were refinancing to DVD, not happening these days and many of the young are struggling to just buy a real home. College is astronomical. I wonder who the target buyers are beyond the Poly.

And the teepee. I hope it is a joke. They should have a learning curve with Dixie Landings and Song of the South. Ya`d think?

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

Just wanted to reenforce that DVC at Caribbean Beach Resort's Trinidad South is definitely being considered. Union negotiations are occurring right now and the one that represents the housekeepers has Trinidad South on their agenda. If CBR goes forward with conversions, I'd expect Port Orleans would be the next choice.

 

[Fe Maiden]

So while Disney leadership definitely deserves criticism for reasons being discussed here, perhaps they also deserve some credit for maintaining and updating the WDW resorts as they have.

I don't think we should give them credit for doing things they should be doing anyway. Especially when it seems they only do the absolute minimum at that.

 

[SirLink]

They can't. And that's the problem.

From 1991-2000, DVC amounted to four resorts, two of which were not even at WDW, one not even in the state of Florida. Since then ... well, take a look. I know DVCers hate this, but the increase in their ranks has come right along with the Walmarting of WDW and the parks getting stale and neglected. I wish the DVC rank and file started a campaign to bring change to WDW. I'd certainly help them. But I get the feeling that even those unhappy, the ones who stay at WDW but visit UNI instead, just are apathetic about things.

So lets say it hits 2042 ( so I was a little out by three years) and Disney refuses to renew any contract that expires that year. Can they not legally? Or is it more theorised as "well we can still sell it and collect the maintenance so it doesn't cost us a thing"?

 

[Kman101]

I understand not wanting to give them credit for what they "should" be doing, but at the same time, I don't see what's so wrong in giving them their credit when they do maintain things and when they do things that they "should" be doing. Efforts need to be appreciated, regardless (IMO) even if you don't think it's that important. If that were me, even doing a tedious job every day, I still want to be appreciated and thanked.

 

[Nemo14]

I understand not wanting to give them credit for what they "should" be doing, but at the same time, I don't see what's so wrong in giving them their credit when they do maintain things and when they do things that they "should" be doing. Efforts need to be appreciated, regardless (IMO) even if you don't think it's that important. If that were me, even doing a tedious job every day, I still want to be appreciated and thanked.

They get plenty of thanks from wallets...

 

[seascape]

So lets say it hits 2042 ( so I was a little out by three years) and Disney refuses to renew any contract that expires that year. Can they not legally? Or is it more theorised as "well we can still sell it and collect the maintenance so it doesn't cost us a thing"?

They do not need to offer you an extension and yes they will take over ownership and would remodel and resale the units. That is the deal we all agreed to when we purchased them. DVC is a right to use timeshare. It's not permanent ownership. That is why I don't understand why people are saying this is short term profit. However it is possible that as conversations happen at resorts that already have DVCs in them it would make sense to offer extensions to the existing owners. That may also be the reason for WL being the first.

Now why do people here who hate DVCs care? If Disney wants to do this it has no effect on the parks but it does give Disney a source of money that could be used to upgrade and build new attractions and yes even a 5th gate. The cash flow from DVC sales is huge. Especially if they are just converting rooms. The cost should be under $50,000 a room. If the points averaged 100 a week at $160, a point that would take 3 weeks of point to cover the costs and start having a profit. If they can sell 40 more weeks that a $2,000,000 profit per room and a conversion of 300 rooms at WL, BWK, BC, and GF, would result in over 2.4 billion dollars. Now don't tell me it costs Disney anywhere near $600 a week to take care of these rooms a week. That is what the maintenance fees are at $6.00 a point. As everyone also knows timeshare have a much higher occupancy rate and my numbers still leave 9 weeks unsold. They can't sell them all because they need to update at time but you can see huge profits which a good portion of should go to the parks. Then in 2042 it starts all over again. This is long term huge profits and money for the parks which is what we all want. It may not be the business model you like but it is a good business model and DVC care about the parks because the parks drive the sales.

 

[Kman101]

They get plenty of thanks from wallets...

LOL. I suppose that is true. And after posting that, the more I thought about it the more I realize it's not exactly the same ...

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

As a VWL owner, this is going to take me a while to process. Right now, I think WL has almost the perfect balance between DVC and rack rate rooms. With the way they priced points for the GF, I have to wonder how much they're planning on charging. I would think that they've got to be close to the breaking point with regards to both the timeshares and the regular rooms....I suppose they are already there with the regular rooms on the deluxes. Don't people who work for Disney stay at other hotels and look at prices? I'm going to a conference at the end of the month and staying at a real nice looking joint in Aix-en-Provence (near Marseille) and it is running $130 or so a night (already did a rough conversion from Euros). Heck, the partner hotels near DTD aren't that expensive. How could they not consider lowering prices? What happens if you drive up and just ask for a room for a night at a deluxe? Would they go down if I turned around and started to walk away after being quoted $325 or whatever for a parking lot view?

We were just in Aix! It's great. George, if you have a chance go to Baux-de-Provence and see the light show inside the limestone caves. It is the most amazing thing we've ever seen. Better than any nighttime Disney show.

 

[danv3]

Glad you are disgruntled.... But as I type this response, I notice you are staying at Saratoga Springs and Boardwalk Villas in 87 days. Maybe this is why Disney won't care. Yes they have our money, but, to the point I was making above, even disgruntled DVC members still go despite being disgruntled. That's the point. 74 says he'd like to see some sort of DVC member uprising. Where would we find such members? I already know the answer is nowhere, unless he knows something else which he hasn't shared on here.

Having paid the money to buy in and the annual dues, I pretty much have to keep going to try to recoup my investment. I'm not going to just let the points lapse.

I certainly wouldn't advise anyone else to buy in. Anyone that asks me for Disney advice I tell to stay off property.

 

[wm49rs]

They do not need to offer you an extension and yes they will take over ownership and would remodel and resale the units. That is the deal we all agreed to when we purchased them. DVC is a right to use timeshare. It's not permanent ownership. That is why I don't understand why people are saying this is short term profit. However it is possible that as conversations happen at resorts that already have DVCs in them it would make sense to offer extensions to the existing owners. That may also be the reason for WL being the first.

Now why do people here who hate DVCs care? If Disney wants to do this it has no effect on the parks but it does give Disney a source of money that could be used to upgrade and build new attractions and yes even a 5th gate. The cash flow from DVC sales is huge. Especially if they are just converting rooms. The cost should be under $50,000 a room. If the points averaged 100 a week at $160, a point that would take 3 weeks of point to cover the costs and start having a profit. If they can sell 40 more weeks that a $2,000,000 profit per room and a conversion of 300 rooms at WL, BWK, BC, and GF, would result in over 2.4 billion dollars. Now don't tell me it costs Disney anywhere near $600 a week to take care of these rooms a week. That is what the maintenance fees are at $6.00 a point. As everyone also knows timeshare have a much higher occupancy rate and my numbers still leave 9 weeks unsold. They can't sell them all because they need to update at time but you can see huge profits which a good portion of should go to the parks. Then in 2042 it starts all over again. This is long term huge profits and money for the parks which is what we all want. It may not be the business model you like but it is a good business model and DVC care about the parks because the parks drive the sales.

DVC money isn't going into the parks....

 

[pixargal]

I receive flyers from a community in the NC mountains trying to sell us property there. Here is a picture of one of the amenities they offer. I think it looks great. They did a nice job blending it into the environment. However, I can't picture them being built over the water, as Spirit mentioned.

 

[flynnibus]

Now maybe i'm missing something, but I just don't see how this will make your future stays at the WL less than prior ones. Just because rooms have been converted to DVC doesn't mean you can't still pay with cash and the rooms are going to be upgraded! How is that a bad thing? And as @ParentsOf4 has pointed out multiple times, renting points can find you extreme steals.

Start here...

You are a hotel that offers paid services like room service... A spa.. Etc and you rely on a percentage of your hotel guests to opt for your services. You need a critical mass to make offering your services cost effective and practical.

Now consider if dvc doesn't offer services like room service... Or turn down service... Or say, a spa...

If you are a hotel losing more and more of your rooms to dvc... Do you think your resort services are going to thrive or starve when the number of hotel rooms shrinks?

 

[alphac2005]

Major corporations used to be run on full, down to the finest minitua with 10 year business plans. @WDW1974, would it be safe to say at this point that the company is like most major corporations in this country that there just isn't such a thing, or that they aren't developed in the way that they were historically? And if there is, what do these geniuses envision a decade from now? I'm assuming it's a timeshare property that just happens to contain theme parks that they are obligated to at least operate at a minimum standard.

Personally, it's all sad. Disney is a reflection of what has gone so wrong with corporate America and they offered what so, so few ever do: A deep and personal connection that brings virtually irrational loyalty. They're losing that loyalty like lemmings falling off a cliff. Is there a road back? Most likely not unless there is some giant epiphany in how corporations operate and that's all a huge disappointment. Growth and attractions changing are one thing, but going from a golden brand to a junk seller is another. Spirit, one other thing: I remember a whole team was based out of Orlando (if I believe correctly), who's job was akin to the Disney Institute, as they'd go to other major corporations and teach them the Disney way. Do they still do this? I assume that they do and that's even more laughable.

 

[The Mom]

Sorry @The Mom, I've made a seperate [rip-off] thread for DLP stuff here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/magical-dlp-rumours-thoughts.887042/

Thank you! Trying to keep stuff tidy so that people won't miss a topic of interest because it gets buried in all the chit chat.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So where does this leave us in 10 years?

These peopl lack a vision.

 

[lebeau]

Agreed. You hear frequently on this site about families with 3 or 4 kids, too, who are very limited in options at WDW resorts. They can't all afford the DVC villas so options at both values and mods would be smart.

The problem is that Disney will probably price them at outrageously high rates like they did at Art of Animation.

 

[Nemo14]

So where does this leave us in 10 years?

These peopl lack a vision.

I don't know, but this comes to mind...

 

[jmb2676]

Here is the question: Where are you going to find the unhappy DVC members? I can stand up and say I am one of them, but, I'm the only one I know. I have friends who are DVC members, and if you dare mention the decline of the parks, they become more vicious than the V infected vampires on True Blood. Find them on fan sites? Hardly a chance of that happening. Any Disney fan site I read, in the DVC sections, you won't find many disgruntled DVC members. And if you do, they all say the same thing, A DAY IN A RUN DOWN MK IS BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. If you dare say you are going to stay in your DVC but visit only Uni, you get chastised.

So, do disgruntled DVC members, who are appalled by the state of decay in WDW and want change, exist in large enough numbers to even get their attention?

Or would Disney even care?

I'm with you on this one. After my trip last year I rented out my points this year and will likely do the same next year. If I do go next year it will likely be a quick trip for 1 day of Star Wars Weekend and a visit to Diagon Alley. I am not quite ready to sell yet but probably not all that far off either. I tried to sell to my parents who just added their 4th or 5th contract at the GF a couple of months ago. I still have a hard time understanding why they keep adding points...

 

[marni1971]

Disney, at the highest levels, knew exactly (and I do mean exactly) what UNI was building in Potter 2.0 when the shark was still lurking in Amity.

In that case I'm sure they're fast tracking Avland and adding an E ticket too as we speak.

Or not.

At least one company in town still considers the parks the core operation.