The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[marni1971]

Not to get too off-topic, but if you think maintenance at the WDW resorts has gotten bad, you need to check out Disneyland Paris. This was the exterior of the Newport Bay Club (a Yacht & Beach Club lookalike) just last week.

That whole resort as we speak is under a multi year renovation which includes (finally) all the cladding being replaced with synthetic.

 

[tirian]

Disney lost thousands of seasonal CMs when they bumped the hourly requirement up to 150/yr. Before that, it was 40 hours or even a day, depending on the division. Most of the college students (former CPs) that helped during peak times couldn't afford to travel to Florida for the new quota. That's why entertainment and F&B are constantly understaffed now.

You bring up a good point—how does Disney expect to staff these resorts if wings open and close as needed? How will they deal with the mold that WILL grow in those closed rooms? And what happens when DVC reaches oversaturation (which is already happening) and the Brazilian bubble bursts?

Once again, WDW defies permanent solutions in favor of short-term fixes.

They shut Port Orleans (then named) after the 9/11 drop in occupancy so that isn't far-fetched. When I was at the same now FQ in April easily 1/3 to 1/2 of the buildings were not being used over my almost 2 week stay while Disney overbooked POR. It could be done.

The problem with that is bringing them back online and staffing when done seasonally. For 2 days there was a huge high school group at the FQ that opened the large building next to the restaurant side of FQ for a few days. The small staff in the restaurant could not handle the meals, lines out to the door. Staffing is a problem already, there just are not that many quality individuals looking for on again off again employment in the Orlando area. The percentage of CPs and Internationals has escalated and this could increase if they build additional housing however the vast majority are not seasonal CMs either, they have to earn enough to cover the rent Disney takes out of their checks.

 

[tirian]

I know there isn't an answer but I wonder what the saturation point is with DVCs. The Poly should be easy, there is that fan base. But money to borrow is tighter. People with real money are brighter and just pay. A decade ago people were refinancing to DVD, not happening these days and many of the young are struggling to just buy a real home. College is astronomical. I wonder who the target buyers are beyond the Poly.

And the teepee. I hope it is a joke. They should have a learning curve with Dixie Landings and Song of the South. Ya`d think?

Teepees are a stereotype, but not racist. Many plains Indians lived in them while hunting.

 

[flynnibus]

I understand not wanting to give them credit for what they "should" be doing, but at the same time, I don't see what's so wrong in giving them their credit when they do maintain things and when they do things that they "should" be doing. Efforts need to be appreciated, regardless (IMO) even if you don't think it's that important. If that were me, even doing a tedious job every day, I still want to be appreciated and thanked.

The everyone gets a trophy strategy

 

[PREMiERdrum]

@WDW1974 So the those beautiful plans for the WL/RC DVC that leaked out a few months ago... the ones that almost made me think the WDC, in 2014, could still do "wow me" architecture... Those are dead?

Sigh. This is the worst kind of abusive relationship.

 

[George]

Here is the question: Where are you going to find the unhappy DVC members? I can stand up and say I am one of them, but, I'm the only one I know. I have friends who are DVC members, and if you dare mention the decline of the parks, they become more vicious than the V infected vampires on True Blood. Find them on fan sites? Hardly a chance of that happening. Any Disney fan site I read, in the DVC sections, you won't find many disgruntled DVC members. And if you do, they all say the same thing, A DAY IN A RUN DOWN MK IS BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE. If you dare say you are going to stay in your DVC but visit only Uni, you get chastised.

So, do disgruntled DVC members, who are appalled by the state of decay in WDW and want change, exist in large enough numbers to even get their attention?

Or would Disney even care?

There are enough of us that they will offer heavily discounted APs, but not so many that they will make "Horizons II: Optimistic Views of the Future as We See It, with a Choose Your Own Future Ending!" I am a chatty Cathy and I'd say this is a rough ratio of DVC members attitudes (2:1:1), with the 2 being completely satisfied, the 1 being we still like it but things are so expensive now that we'll eat in our rooms and occasionally have trips where we go out to the space center, hit Uni, and the beach, and the final 1 looking into the resale market because they are in wonderment that they ever made the decision to buy points. Right now though, there are quite a few more regular rooms than DVC rooms. If they really change that ratio, they're going to have to think about the rest of the resort. I doubt 1/4 to 1/3 of regular resort guests avoid Disney dining and occasionally stay on property whilst doing other area entertainment options. Now that one kid is considered an adult (11) and the youngest (9) will soon be an adult, I can't see doing a lot of the table service meals. Having been a regular visitor to WDW since 72 (albeit I was 3 at that time), I fall into the camp that believes food prices have gone sharply up whilst quality has gone down over the last 10 years or so. That opinion, coupled with the fact that many of the sit downs are buffets or family style, and there will soon be no way to avoid paying 40 or 50 bucks for a little girl who rarely consumes more than 5-6 molecules of food at a sitting means I'm not doing a lot of high end Disney dining. I KNOW this opinion is shared by many DVC members. I've talked to quite a few this June who had dropped the dining plan or were considering it. I even told a few people some of our easy to prepare dinners. Beside that, the Prime Time Cafe doesn't offer the tuna casserole any more. *sigh* Figaro fries, strawberry swirl, and tuna casserole. Consigned to the trash bin of culinary history.

 

[SirLink]

DVC money isn't going into the parks....

I don't know how many more times this can be stated.

P.S.Who is seascape his attitude seems familiar...

 

[Atomicmickey]

Just one last point on the UNI tidbit that I teased on the first page.

I'll go into depth more (likely over the weekend, but if I disappear for a few days ... please, don't fill this with BS and rants about be promising!) but have talked a lot to some friends who work for UNI and (this may or may not be a surprise ... folks here all have varying degrees of knowledge about the business of parks) and understand this: Disney, at the highest levels, knew exactly (and I do mean exactly) what UNI was building in Potter 2.0 when the shark was still lurking in Amity.

They knew. They were aware. They had chances to put things on a fast track. And what you have is New Fantasyland, new DVC and MM+ ... (please, I'm begging here, don't take this into a compare and contrast the companies deal ... we've done that in approximately 6,569,900 threads here!) ... But there are no secrets in the business at the highest levels and it was well known what would happen (probably well before I even put it out there).

So, OK, let's try to parse this out. Spirit, my question for your contacts would be, what is the
thinking behind this? I picture lots of suits, lots of meetings, lots of charts, graphs, statistical
analysis. And ultimately the decision was made that they didn't have to do anything at all.
I'd love to see the executive summary that made that recommendation.

There would be enough people involved that no one personal agenda could have been pushed,
unless it was from the very, very top. (These are all suppositions of mine, of course, but I'm
just going by other behaviors in the halls of giant companies that I've encountered)

So what would that summary have said? It seems like the general thought is that new attractions
do not drive growth in attendance or spending. That a new E-Ticket can't pay for itself these
days. The shortest distance between two points is to monetize existing assets (Harambe Nights, etc.).

So, effectively, less people go, but they spend more, and all looks good on the balance sheet.

The fact that they didn't care to respond to Potter makes Avatar seem even weirder. As you've
pointed out, more of an ego-driven project than anything else. "Well, you saw the report, we
aren't going to build much new, except for that one thing that Bob Iger went and signed that
deal for, sigh." (I am excited about the Rivers of Light show, but if they had wanted to, it should/could have
been open to compete with Potter.)

Why isn't Star Wars a no-brainer? Or are we truly just waiting to see how the new films play out
first?

You'd think a couple of fast tracked Pixar attractions--door coaster, etc. would be a no-brainer.

So, again--executive summary--why? Did they just decided to let Universal have this one? Do they
not think it's a good long-term play? What would be the flaw that they see in Uni's plan that makes
them shrug it off? Or . . . what else?

Thanks for sharing . . .

 

[Kman101]

The everyone gets a trophy strategy

No. Not the everyone gets a trophy strategy.

 

[Tasmanet]

Hi

I think there are several reasons that DVC's are popular and why there is a lot
of construction at WDW.

The prices are ridiculous at times when it is quiet . Recently I was trying to find
a good rate for a 2 bedroom DVC unit for 4 to 6 weeks in the hurricane season.
I could only seem to get the prices quoted on Debs site which by the way seem
to increase around 10 % every year . Reason being we were/are trying to escape
the Winter down here in Tassie.

There appears to be a bit of a trend towards DVC type accommodation around the
World . It is the only way to sleep in and get a decent breakfast especially the
Toast . Of course really top hotels you will get a decent breakfast in your room

There is a lot of cheap money around from Quantitative Easing at the moment
and I suppose you would use that instead of of your own to finance long term
renovations . Also the Disney mob might be getting everything up to scratch so
they can concentrate on China and then India.

Unfortunately the Good ol Days seem to be over for the bulk of the Middle Class
in the USA and most Asian Financial Cable TV seem to think that it is not getting
much better than now. Really interesting listening/watching to Bloomberg and
CNBC Cable from Asia compared to the US versions.

I love WDW and have stayed in all of the good Hotels around a dozen times over
the years .Luckily they are doing up our favorite the Poly , and DVC rooms over-
looking the Lake , along with a million things to do will get us back

 

[BoarderPhreak]

Seems to me that Disney's long-standing apathy is finally coming around to bite them in the .

 

[Tasmanet]

"The cost should be under $50,000 a room."

That would be for a Studio and I assume or $150,000 for a 2 bedroom.
I reckon you are out by a country mile on the costs.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I don't believe they had any meetings about what to do about Potter. I think they shrugged it off with a "Haha, WDW is unsinkable. We are the King of the World!" attitude.

 

[wm49rs]

Hi

I think there are several reasons that DVC's are popular and why there is a lot
of construction at WDW.

The prices are ridiculous at times when it is quiet . Recently I was trying to find
a good rate for a 2 bedroom DVC unit for 4 to 6 weeks in the hurricane season.
I could only seem to get the prices quoted on Debs site which by the way seem
to increase around 10 % every year . Reason being we were/are trying to escape
the Winter down here in Tassie.

There appears to be a bit of a trend towards DVC type accommodation around the
World . It is the only way to sleep in and get a decent breakfast especially the
Toast . Of course really top hotels you will get a decent breakfast in your room

There is a lot of cheap money around from Quantitative Easing at the moment
and I suppose you would use that instead of of your own to finance long term
renovations . Also the Disney mob might be getting everything up to scratch so
they can concentrate on China and then India.

Unfortunately the Good ol Days seem to be over for the bulk of the Middle Class
in the USA and most Asian Financial Cable TV seem to think that it is not getting
much better than now. Really interesting listening/watching to Bloomberg and
CNBC Cable from Asia compared to the US versions.

I love WDW and have stayed in all of the good Hotels around a dozen times over
the years .Luckily they are doing up our favorite the Poly , and DVC rooms over-
looking the Lake , along with a million things to do will get us back

What resort in India? And Disney gets monies from the Chinese for those resorts, so I'm not sure how that has anything to do with further incorporating DVC at the WL.

And if the good old days for the US middle class are over, I'm not sure trying to entice them (or anyone else) into DVC while simultaneously reducing room inventory is a terrific strategy....

 

[Fishbait]

I would love to stay on site. My problem is the prices. It's not that I can't afford it, but I appreciate getting value for my money. Disney hasn't been able to make me feel like I am getting value for what they are offering. That was the hotels, but it is also hard to feel that way about the parks too.

I don't know what it will take for them to wake up...but until they do they have lost me. Never been to Disneyland or done a Disney Cruise, I guess it is time to explore more things.

 

[Gomer]

I don't believe they had any meetings about what to do about Potter. I think they shrugged it off with a "Haha, WDW is unsinkable. We are the King of the World!" attitude.

It would be easy and comforting to think that Disney’s decisions over the last few years were based purely on arrogance and stupidity. Then they might fail soon and get replaced by people more to our liking. Unfortunately, I would fear its much worse than that. I don’t think they ignored potter. I think they had meetings and discussed how this would impact the market. I just think that their goals don’t align with those that actually attend their parks anymore and what they are acting on here is a extensively planned business model that just doesn’t have theme park fans in mind as a consideration for success.

It may be short-sighted and ill advised, and it will likely bite someone in the rear down the road once the current crop of executives is long gone, but I do think it is all going according to plan. We just don’t like the plan.

 

[awilliams4]

To a family like us, this is good news. We are DVC and to us, the parks represent just a portion of our vacation time at WDW. The resorts and the amenities are just as big a part of our vacation as the parks themselves. We however have no interest in staying in a hotel room while on vacation. We want a washer/dryer. We want a whirlpool tub, we want multiple rooms so if one spouse sleeps in, the other may enjoy the living room and read, watch TV, etc. We don't want to be all crammed and on the run all the time, we want to relax and have space.

We have always wanted to stay at the Yacht Club or the main buildings at the WL or BC. Or even say the 3rd floor in the Jambo house. But we won't unless they offer at least 1 Bedroom accomodations. So expanding DVC to all the main Deluxe buildings is a win for us. It is like having another 5+ resorts/experiences to now try out in the future.

 

[schuelma]

So, OK, let's try to parse this out. Spirit, my question for your contacts would be, what is the
thinking behind this? I picture lots of suits, lots of meetings, lots of charts, graphs, statistical
analysis. And ultimately the decision was made that they didn't have to do anything at all.
I'd love to see the executive summary that made that recommendation.

There would be enough people involved that no one personal agenda could have been pushed,
unless it was from the very, very top. (These are all suppositions of mine, of course, but I'm
just going by other behaviors in the halls of giant companies that I've encountered)

So what would that summary have said? It seems like the general thought is that new attractions
do not drive growth in attendance or spending. That a new E-Ticket can't pay for itself these
days. The shortest distance between two points is to monetize existing assets (Harambe Nights, etc.).

So, effectively, less people go, but they spend more, and all looks good on the balance sheet.

The fact that they didn't care to respond to Potter makes Avatar seem even weirder. As you've
pointed out, more of an ego-driven project than anything else. "Well, you saw the report, we
aren't going to build much new, except for that one thing that Bob Iger went and signed that
deal for, sigh." (I am excited about the Rivers of Light show, but if they had wanted to, it should/could have
been open to compete with Potter.)

Why isn't Star Wars a no-brainer? Or are we truly just waiting to see how the new films play out
first?

You'd think a couple of fast tracked Pixar attractions--door coaster, etc. would be a no-brainer.

So, again--executive summary--why? Did they just decided to let Universal have this one? Do they
not think it's a good long-term play? What would be the flaw that they see in Uni's plan that makes
them shrug it off? Or . . . what else?

Thanks for sharing . . .

Good post. Logic tells me that when WDI sees their bottom line really start falling at one of their parks (DHS I am looking at you), then they will be forced to at least address that situation.

Unless..unless that park is already failing and WDI just doesn't care? ("well, 3 out of 4 ain't bad").

 

[GoofGoof]

Start here...

You are a hotel that offers paid services like room service... A spa.. Etc and you rely on a percentage of your hotel guests to opt for your services. You need a critical mass to make offering your services cost effective and practical.

Now consider if dvc doesn't offer services like room service... Or turn down service... Or say, a spa...

If you are a hotel losing more and more of your rooms to dvc... Do you think your resort services are going to thrive or starve when the number of hotel rooms shrinks?

DVC does offer room service and you can still go to the spa, same as the hotels. I don't see why that would change. The only thing they don't offer is turn down service, but you can get daily housekeeping for an additional fee if you really want it. It won't likely negatively impact any of the services offered to hotel guests and if the resorts are really less than 65% occupied (DVC runs at a 95% rate) if anything you should see additional guest offerings and extended hours due to more demand. The only downside is the resort will be more crowded so there will be less open lounge chairs at the pool...a pool that is likely being renovated in anticipation of the additional DVC build out.

I know DVC is unpopular here and I agree it's a short sited strategy and a money grab for Disney, but sometimes I think people work too hard to demonize it.

 

[Gomer]

To a family like us, this is good news. We are DVC and to us, the parks represent just a portion of our vacation time at WDW. The resorts and the amenities are just as big a part of our vacation as the parks themselves. We however have no interest in staying in a hotel room while on vacation. We want a washer/dryer. We want a whirlpool tub, we want multiple rooms so if one spouse sleeps in, the other may enjoy the living room and read, watch TV, etc. We don't want to be all crammed and on the run all the time, we want to relax and have space.

We have always wanted to stay at the Yacht Club or the main buildings at the WL or BC. Or even say the 3rd floor in the Jambo house. But we won't unless they offer at least 1 Bedroom accomodations. So expanding DVC to all the main Deluxe buildings is a win for us. It is like having another 5+ resorts/experiences to now try out in the future.

And this is why you are not likely to ever see a full DVC member revolt.

As a DVC member, I get this. I am selfishly excited about the idea of more rooms at the WL. I know it’s a problem. I know it leads to lack of investment in the parks. Logically, I know it’s likely a bad thing for the company. But still, I’ll be happy I have more options, have a blast staying at the added hotels, and then carry a guilt complex about it the rest of the year until my next trip.