The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Nubs70 said:
Let's take 1 room cash at $400 and 1 room DVC at $67. Combined the cash inflow is $467 for the night. If both rooms get the same "experience". They each receive $233.50 of "experience".

Cash room pays $400 and receives $233.50 in "experience"

DVC pays $67 and receives $233.50 in "experience".

*numbers were kept simple for purpose of illustration.
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The profits for DVC are already locked in by Disney and long gone. The $67 is just the maintenance fees for that room covering the cost to operate the resort. In reality both guests are receiving $67 worth of experience. Actually the cash guest is getting more like $80 worth of service since they get daily housekeeping. One paid thousands upfront to "lock in" at that price and the other is paying $400 now to get it. The cash guest just generates $300+ of profit for Disney in the current year.

In other words it's not costing Disney $233.50 to provide the experience and they are losing money on the DVC guest but making up for it with the cash guest. Disney is actually still making a small profit from DVC maintenance fees but the vast majority of the fees are used to just cover the actual costs. There is no economic incentive for Disney to reduce service to DVC members since their fees cover any costs.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
ParentsOf4 said:
Disney's P&R investments in 2013 were at 15% while Uni's were at 26%.

Before Bob Iger took charge, Disney's P&R investments used to run over 25% every year, often above 30%.

Uni's Theme Parks margins are up exactly because they are investing in their product.

Disney's P&R's margins are down exactly because they are underinvesting in theirs.
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Are you saying that Satan Eisner put more money into the parks than The Weatherman?

(First, I knew that. Second, anyone who visited regularly in his tenure would know that!)

But hey, now you can go to EPCOT after closing and get six tiny samples of food and drink and enjoy a dance party (seriously, is this TDO's answer to any/every thing?) for the low, low price of $79 a person (and, yes, I am steering clear of the thread where I am sure many MAGICal members are talking about how wonderful that is!)
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
PrincessNelly_NJ said:
So 2015 rates were released today.
Notice they decided to widen the pricing gap between moderates.
POR is now the most expensive, followed by POFQ, then CSR, and finally CBR.
I'm assuming this is not only to make more money but to deter people from POR & POFQ and push them towards CSR & CBR to boost occupancy rates at those two resorts.

Combined with not including POR & POFQ in free dining and CBR now being able to accommodate 5, does this decrease the chances of DVC at the moderates?
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Not at all.

And those rates at the 'moderates' are flat out obscene. From 1988 to 2008, the most I ever paid to stay at one (including two weeks over the Millennium on a room booked in 1994!) was $129 at Coronado Springs the week after DAK opened. That was also the last time I paid rack rate at WDW. My typical rate at a moderate (leaving out cast rates) was likely about $80 a night. I still don't view them as worth much more than that.

I know folks can talk themselves into believing that Disney's rates are justified, but that doesn't make them so.

We're now at the point where rooms can top $300 at these motels. I-N-S-A-N-E.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
flynnibus said:
Certainly pricing will help steer the needle

IMO I can't fathom them doing DVC at moderates in the current form anyway. The pricing justification works out by comparing Deluxe pricing.. not mods really. They would have to create a whole new tier of DVC exchange I think to make building at the moderates work.
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True enough.

But I think they've already been planning this. And I think the different tiered prices at different value and moderate resorts is part of that.

I do know as far back as 3-4 years I heard Disney was thinking of getting rid of the 'deluxe', 'moderate' and 'value' designations and going strictly by location ... so say DAK Lodge, the All Stars and Coronado would all be part of the DAK/BB Resort Area etc. That makes it easier down the road to add DVC to ANY resort.

I wondered why they were talking about doing this and if this DVC at the CBR happens, I guarantee you that whatever form it is, that those designations for the resorts will disappear before.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
BernardandBianca said:
"$8,500 for a week in Orlando isn't outrageous?!?! I could travel the world in Faux Top One Percent style for MONTHS on that amount. "

I'd love to hear how you can do that (truly, I'm jealous). We just got back last autumn from a three week cruise through the Indian Ocean, and dropped a whole heck of a lot more than that (each). Talk about living in Faux Top One Percent style! Course, everything was included from the time we stepped foot in the airport here to when we returned to that airport.
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I know how to travel. I collect and use frequent flier miles and hotel loyalty points, but only when I can't travel for less than their value. I am flexible. I don't eat three meals a day (except when cruising!) and I am willing to eat a meal at ... yes ... a McDonald's or a sandwich in a train station if it means I can have a nice dinner or stay an extra day or three. I am not afraid to use Priceline's bidding service (in one year alone it saved me over $13,000 off retail and if Shatner ever gives it up, I'd advocate for them for free!) ... While I love First Class, I can sit in the back just fine. I don't buy a drink that costs me more than 15% than I'd pay in L.A. ...

In 2006, I spent two months in Europe (more, but that was consecutively) and with airfare I didn't come close to spending what you did. And I even spent some time at DLP during that trip too!

It can be done.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Stevek said:
I wish I could remember how much our AKL Savannah View was back in 2006. Seemed to be right around $200/night which is slightly more than we paid for our CBR room in March but night and day from an experience/quality standpoint.
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I paid about $125 for a savannah view (they called it obstructed, but I don't agree) in 12/06 at DAK Lodge. ... That was my last stay there until using DVC points in 2013.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
ParentsOf4 said:
Now, we can debate each step along the way but, ultimately, having DVC at a WDW resort benefits DVC members to the detriment of cash guests.
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Let's not because it's the conclusion that matters and you nailed it above.

I have watched DVC lower standards, upkeep and guest service at the BC, the WL and DAK Lodge (least amount) and it sure looks to be like that at the Contemporary and Grand Flo, although I haven't stayed at either since they've added timeshare.

About the only resort where it hasn't had a negative effect in my experience has been at the Grand Californian ... but they have a tiny presence there and I am repeating myself!
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
About the only resort where it hasn't had a negative effect in my experience has been at the Grand Californian ... but they have a tiny presence there and I am repeating myself!
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50 DVC units in the 1,019 room Grand Californian Hotel. Heck, 50 DVC units in the 2,498 rooms in Disney-owned hotels at the Disneyland Resort. Someone with a math degree can figure out what the percentage there is, compared to the percentage of DVC at the WDW hotels.

I'd always assumed there were 3,000 Disney-owned hotel rooms at Disneyland Resort. 20 seconds on Google tonight shows it's actually just under 2,500 rooms. And only 50 DVC units included in that total. Out of 20,000 total hotel rooms in the "Anaheim Resort District".

Another way Florida and California are very, very different. Who thought up "One Disney" again?
 
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Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Longhairbear said:
I am well aware that my personal tastes are not always the most popular, but...
that's one heck of an unattractive hotel.
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It's not just you. It's an unattractive building from 50 yards or more.

I clicked through the photos at the Sentinel link, and the interior décor and spaces are reasonably attractive in that tastefully-beige look that these upper-class hotels seem to favor.

But from 50 yards out, it's not pretty.
 
L

Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
TP2000 said:
It's not just you. It's an unattractive building from 50 yards or more.

I clicked through the photos at the Sentinel link, and the interior décor and spaces are reasonably attractive in that tastefully-beige look that these upper-class hotels seem to favor.

But from 50 yards out, it's not pretty.
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Is there a design /review process for Reedy Creek? Here in Palm Springs we are struggling with various opinions of the new hotel complex going up in the center of downtown. Constant revisions, and lots of opposing opinions.
I guess I am just surprised that the Four Seasons does not say "Luxury" just by looking at the outside.
 
HollyAD

HollyAD

Well-Known Member
yensid67 said:
Hey Crispy,
I don't travel often, but I have travelled some and found that The Clarion Lake Buena Vista was VERY comforting, a lot of amenities on site, and close enough to walk to Disney Springs and catch a Disney bus! Its no glitz and glamour here, just a simple COMFORTABLE hotel and room. Any of the Rosen hotels are very nice and for trumps Disney just on price. It offers 2 pools and splash zone for kids, a playground, a game room, a bar, a convenience store, a restaurant and laundry. The rooms have been through a multi-million dollar refurb a few years ago with frig and micro in every room at NO CHARGE! and all beds have pillow top mattresses...what else could you want from a room!? (ALL Rosen properties have been renovated in the past 2 years and the 'value' hotels look the same, while you still have a choice to stay with Rosen brand and choose a more expensive hotel within their brand)
You should check Rosen properties out...
The Clarion LBV, The Quality Inn(I-drive behind McD's), The Rosen Inn(I-drive across from Wet n Wild) and another'value' hotel on the southside of I-drive just off Sand Lake! Shingle Creek (2 Hotels) is their more expensive hotels for those who wish to spend the money.
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We stayed Clarion LBV last year for one night, pre-WDW. We were surprised with the place considering how cheap it was.
 

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