The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[Figments Friend]

Several members, I'm sure someone can identify them. The most recent effort was called " Fix the Magic" or something. Don't think it ever got past the "what should the logo look like??" stage. It never works.

D-Troops was the only site that ever served this purpose and it's long gone.

Reading this, i felt a need to comment.
It only takes one person with a idea to get the ball rolling and make a big change happen.
You would be amazed at what a difference one person can make by stepping out on the edge and proposing something.

Example that immediately comes to mind -

This very website*s Forum, WDWMagic.com, was used by a certain Member back in 2007 to rally the masses and turn around the Company*s decision to not honor or celebrate EPCOT*s 25th anniversary.
The WDC publically announced it was blowing it off...and just doing a private acknowledgment for CMs.
With a lot of fans upset and disappointed, there was a huge outcry.


Enter said Member, who started a thread right here and asked *Why can*t we just all show up and celebrate ourselves?*
Member pitched the concept and immediately people came on board to help make it a reality.
Thus began a crusade, and that tiny pebble started rolling and ended up becoming a gigantic boulder - a force to reckon with thanks to the help of several key participants.
Then the press picked up on *the movement*..and the rest is history.

Disney did a complete turnaround, retracted it*s original plans and instead rolled out the red carpet in ways that any serious longtime EPCOT Center geek would appreciate.
They went above what was being assumingly expected at that time, and for most who attended the Event that day, it was mind blowing.

It was a incredible story of how it all happened, and that 25th Birthday of the Park was a wonderful day to experience. Just a massive turnout of people, and it all ended up being quite a memorable public event happening after all.
This was long before D23 existed and capitalized on the idea when the 30th came around...and charged people big bucks to attend it. The 25th was free for ALL lovers of EPCOT and it*s history, and it only happened because of the power of the people.
The fans rallying together POSITIVELY made a huge difference, and Disney history was made that day.


Search *EPCOTs 25th* to learn more.
It was quite a spectacle.

I am proud to have been a part of making all of that happen.
Actually, i was the little dragon that started the thread here....but i digress.....

I know a Park Anniversary event is probably not considered on the same tier as major Park improvements or enhancements, but my point of this post is to show that with the right attitude and the right people in place, BIG CHANGES *CAN* happen.
If one just sits by the sidelines and does nothing, then *nothing* is what will happen.
You have to MAKE it happen...and have others with the same passion for such things help you to achieve that goal.

I know firsthand how powerful social media in the fan community can be.
The key is what i stated earlier - POSITIVE attitude ( no wining and ) and the RIGHT people on your side.

Hope this will inspire folks to *take a chance* and run with it.



And now, not to further derail the topic on hand, let us return to the topic of DVC.

I despise it.
Always have, and i have never been shy in expressing that opinion.
It is indeed a terrible cancer that has slowly been destroying WDW over the last few years.
Those who buy into it do not seem to understand that by doing so, they are helping to destroy the very thing they profess to love.
It is a vicious, destructive circle that is sucking the vital essence out of what was once a beautiful landscaped-by-nature *Vacation KIngdom of the World*.
Now it is littered with *condos* and poorly designed *apartment complexes*.
Breaks the heart to see the atrocities taking place on Florida soil.
I think this is one of the reasons i stopped visiting and now focus on Disneyland instead.
It is just too damn depressing for me now to visit WDW.

 

[TalkingHead]

1.) We are Walt Freaking Disney World. We have always been No. 1 and we always will be No. 1 (I won't point out in this thread how many great name in American business and industry thought this way and are either history or shells of what they once were);

Reminiscent of the Bruce Vaughn D23 line: "No one can touch us."

Uh, yeah, actually...

 

[wdisney9000]

(remind me one day to talk about why flooding at WDW happens now when it never did for the resort's first quarter century: here's a hint, it's because they built the town of Celebration!)

Considering the fact that almost everything they build based on having a water feature eventually develops a maintenance nightmare, or in the case of the lakes and lagoons there are possible health issues, why would they want to build (more) rooms over the water?
I'm thinking in terms of a child falling in, or a bad storm blows water in the room and someone files a lawsuit for health issues, or any unforseen water issue years from now. Is it a bad situation waiting to happen or do they have safeguards in place?

(Edit to add: we all need to work together to keep this thread on track. Only WE... can prevent drifting, mmmkay)

 

[SpaceMountain77]

True deluxe resorts don't have folks arriving with bags of crap they picked up at the Walmart. They just don't. You never saw that at WL or BC or Contemporary in the 80s or 90s. It's standard everyday now.

DVCers have endless choices at WDW. Folks who want a true deluxe resort sans timeshare barely have any choice at all.

Although I am a DVC member, I do appreciate this sentiment. Prior to the addition of BLT, the Contemporary was my favorite WDW resort. Now, I find myself drawn to Disney's Yacht Club because it is a stand-alone resort.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Funny how they want to spend as little as possible then dump billions into MM+ thinking it would somehow MAGICally make guests spend more money rather than going with the age old way of building something that gets people excited and want to come and spend money. But I guess that little mine ride is enough, right? Why should they do more?

It looks different on the balance sheet.

.... which is the problem with having business people in charge.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But wasn't AL (MiceAge) successful in holding Disneyland accountable? (to a point?)

Lutz had already been established as a personality for some time when he left MousePlanet to start MiceAge. I think what really ended up catching everyone's attention, and proving that he was right and not just a crank, was when a guest was killed on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad in September 2003.

 

[John]

Let's summarize reality:

• Disney is coasting on nostalgia without actually investing in WDW, beyond disappointing additions and necessary infrastructure upgrades. Those disappointments include FLE, with its bad forced perspective and lackluster rides; Pandora, which will be gorgeous but is based on a concept few people care about; and DVC villas, which would be great if Disney gave us a reason to return to the parks. A refreshed parade and hub expansion don't count for much when Epcot and DHS are shadows of their former glory.

• Epcot is stale, and shoehorning Frozen into an environment where it doesn't fit won't fix Future World or the open-air nightclub that was once called World Showcase. But look! A paint store puked all over Innoventions.

• The most obvious expansion still hasn't happened at DHS, and the park's centerpiece remains a plastic hat that sells pieces of tin.

• Disney Springs is coming. Hooray?

• TDO is trapped by its multi-billion dollar investment into MM+, a program specifically designed to rip money from you and move you around the theme parks without having to actually invest in new things to do.

• The resorts are grossly overpriced by any standard.

• The old mentality that WDW is a showcase for future technology and improving the world—indeed, the idea that Disney should do amazing things simply because it CAN—is dead. Look at the bus routes and broken monorails as examples.

• The WDC itself has become a collection of franchises that don't relate to one another and replace creativity with products.

• Artistic integrity, the joy of filmmaking, and the magic of theme parks are dead at the WDC.

• Despite the problems, the company makes money hand over fist. The Disney Channel is some of the worst tripe on TV, but it controls the tween market. "Frozen" was a moderately decent movie hailed as the Second Coming of Walt. Marvel movies are essentially mechanized products with a known sex offender directing the most glossy productions. ABC is an albatross that nevertheless makes money.

• It all makes money.

• Lots of money.

• Iger is named Best CEO and our complaints on a message board don't matter.

• Our opinions are, nevertheless, right.

You know what's ironic about this....as if there Things were not getting painted as before....lightbulbs burnt out. No these things started long ago. Nobody mentioned it.......till they went with blank napkins and it blew the lid off. NAPKINS! People were saying that we were nit picking....that it was ONLY napkins.....no! no! it was the symbolism in those napkins. So here we are today.

DVC is one thing but to cannibalize existing resorts is another. We all know that the resorts are/were a cash cow. DVC is now just a bigger cow. Now TDC collect cash without costing them a dime. No maintenance, no house keeping....nada.

BTW someone tell jt that if Disney builds a 5th gate in the next 10 years I will carry him piggy back to the front desk of SSR, pay for his stay and buy him as many churros as he can eat.....aint gonna happen.

 

[Gabe1]

What is the occupancy rate at Port Orleans (French Quarter), though? Are the lack of discounts/free dining intentional or do they merely reflect a resort with less of an occupancy problem than the other moderates or Dixie Landings (Riverside) next door? Although it lacks some moderate resort amenities (because Disney likes to pretend it and Dixie are one resort), its more compact size seems to hold greater appeal for some guests.

Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken, but there haven't been many (or any) discounts at Art of Animation's standard (Little Mermaid) rooms either; It was my assumption Disney had no trouble filling those rooms.

I said this earlier but in April POR was booked, actually oversold. CM discounts were only available at moderate level at FQ or CS-ranch. FQ was 1/3 to 1/2 empty buildings and generally the busing is great out of the FQ but this time they linked everything but the morning run to MK with POR which made the commute by bus nasty long.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

I think the issue is very simple: Disney has reached the end of the line with ever increasing prices and doesn't wish to shift their pricing model. This solves their problems in the short term ... buys them another 5-10 years if a new management team doesn't come in and change things. But I need to run ...

Sadly it's the death throes of a dying concept. The Disney we knew is no longer sustainable, and the quality we've grown to expect simply costs too much. The balance sheet needs to show endless profits, and the only way to do that is to become Walmart.

 

[ProfSavage]

Reading this, i felt a need to comment.
It only takes one person with a idea to get the ball rolling and make a big change happen.
You would be amazed at what a difference one person can make by stepping out on the edge and proposing something.

Example that immediately comes to mind -

This very website*s Forum, WDWMagic.com, was used by a certain Member back in 2007 to rally the masses and turn around the Company*s decision to not honor or celebrate EPCOT*s 25th anniversary.
The WDC publically announced it was blowing it off...and just doing a private acknowledgment for CMs.
With a lot of fans upset and disappointed, there was a huge outcry.


Enter said Member, who started a thread right here and asked *Why can*t we just all show up and celebrate ourselves?*
Member pitched the concept and immediately people came on board to help make it a reality.
Thus began a crusade, and that tiny pebble started rolling and ended up becoming a gigantic boulder - a force to reckon with thanks to the help of several key participants.
Then the press picked up on *the movement*..and the rest is history.

Disney did a complete turnaround, retracted it*s original plans and instead rolled out the red carpet in ways that any serious longtime EPCOT Center geek would appreciate.
They went above what was being assumingly expected at that time, and for most who attended the Event that day, it was mind blowing.

It was a incredible story of how it all happened, and that 25th Birthday of the Park was a wonderful day to experience. Just a massive turnout of people, and it all ended up being quite a memorable public event happening after all.
This was long before D23 existed and capitalized on the idea when the 30th came around...and charged people big bucks to attend it. The 25th was free for ALL lovers of EPCOT and it*s history, and it only happened because of the power of the people.
The fans rallying together POSITIVELY made a huge difference, and Disney history was made that day.


Search *EPCOTs 25th* to learn more.
It was quite a spectacle.

I am proud to have been a part of making all of that happen.
Actually, i was the little dragon that started the thread here....but i digress.....

I know a Park Anniversary event is probably not considered on the same tier as major Park improvements or enhancements, but my point of this post is to show that with the right attitude and the right people in place, BIG CHANGES *CAN* happen.
If one just sits by the sidelines and does nothing, then *nothing* is what will happen.
You have to MAKE it happen...and have others with the same passion for such things help you to achieve that goal.

I know firsthand how powerful social media in the fan community can be.
The key is what i stated earlier - POSITIVE attitude ( no wining and ) and the RIGHT people on your side.

Hope this will inspire folks to *take a chance* and run with it.



And now, not to further derail the topic on hand, let us return to the topic of DVC.

I despise it.
Always have, and i have never been shy in expressing that opinion.
It is indeed a terrible cancer that has slowly been destroying WDW over the last few years.
Those who buy into it do not seem to understand that by doing so, they are helping to destroy the very thing they profess to love.
It is a vicious, destructive circle that is sucking the vital essence out of what was once a beautiful landscaped-by-nature *Vacation KIngdom of the World*.
Now it is littered with *condos* and poorly designed *apartment complexes*.
Breaks the heart to see the atrocities taking place on Florida soil.
I think this is one of the reasons i stopped visiting and now focus on Disneyland instead.
It is just too damn depressing for me now to visit WDW.

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody." - Lily Tomlin

 

[stlphil]

Getting tired and want to run off for some other fun pursuits (not that this can't be fun but ...) ... I can't answer your question as to what Disney is thinking largely. I could say what a few people who work for them think, but that wouldn't help much.

I think the issue is very simple: Disney has reached the end of the line with ever increasing prices and doesn't wish to shift their pricing model. This solves their problems in the short term ... buys them another 5-10 years if a new management team doesn't come in and change things. But I need to run ...

Okay, I'm a little slow today but I finally get your point about why this news is so important. For a while now you and others here (such as @ParentsOf4) have been warning that Disney's business practices in Orlando are unsustainable and various tipping points were coming.

This plan to have DVC cannibalize the Deluxe resorts means that one of those tipping points has now been reached.

Can other tipping points be far behind?

 

[flyerjab]

Might as well chime in on this. At this time I am sitting at a table by the volcano pool at The Poly enjoying club level goodies as my family of 5 eagerly awaits the fireworks at MK. We are on day 7 of a 16 day trip into The World, staying at 6 different resorts - BWI club level (CL), VWL, KV, Poly CL, VGF, YC CL. And to make matters worse, WDW took a huge wad of pixie dust and MAGICally upgraded us from a studio to a 2 bedroom in the VWL. Just setting the picture so you can see my perspective.

I don't consider myself a pixie snorter though, as I will give credit where credit is due (Diagon Alley). That being said, I love WDW and so does my family. I have a WONDERful and MAGICal time here. Do we spend major money to do this? Absolutely. Did we buy into the VGF last year when they were first offered? You bet. For emphasis again though, I do not wear rose-colored
Disney glasses. We were in EPCOT today, and I weep every time because I know how incredible that park could be. For our next Orlando vacation, we will also be giving the boy who lived some of our money cause Diagon Alley looks amazing.

Do I think WDW makes great business decisions? I don't know. I don't have the business acumen that posters like @ParentsOf4 and other posters do. I can only hope that what they are doing works out in both the short and long term. Despite what a lot of people post about on this forum, I still fully enjoy what WDW world has to offer. Maybe cause I am not married to or are familiar with the legacy as some off you are. We are only 5 years into our time spent getting to know WDW. In truth though, I think that makes me the worst kind of nightmare for some of the posters on this thread. I have never soared with Dreamfinder or looked straight at the Chinese Theater prior to the arrival of the BAH. Nor have I needed to dodge the swipe of a yeti.

As far as WDW is concerned, I know what I know about the parks/resorts in more recent terms. And it suits my family just fine. Because of that, my wife and I will be purchasing more points in the not too distant future (most likely resale). We haven't tired of it or find WDW's offerings stale as we try to really build variety into the trip. DVC membership helps make that more possible. Next year we will be adding a stay at the HHI resort for even more options.

Looking over everything, I like to believe that WDW currently exists somewhere in between @jt04 's praise and @marni1971 's almost twitter-like negative reality. I know that WDW could be better and I know Iger has the money and the creative minds to do it. All things in the business world, however, are cyclical. For the past however many years, TDO has been crazy conservative, using creativity to support cost cutting and implement more austerity type measures as opposed to high-priced, innovative E-ticket attractions. Ultimately, this strategy will run its course, and declines in attendance and/or DVC sales either through lack of interest or stiff competition will occur, and the strategy pendulum will start to swing in the other direction. I actually think that Diagon Alley is the best thing that could have happened right now. I pray for a third gate and more hotels also, as we have no issues visiting UNI parks and strong competition is something I feel TDO just isn't used to. Right now, however, attendance doesn't seem to concern them. They are too busy trying to keep people on site and longer and I suppose they think DVC is the answer. DVC has been very successful so why not use what works, right? I think that is what TWDC thinks. @WDW1974 , during my first 7 days on this trip, I have been asked to participate in 4 separate surveys, and they were all about the same thing - how long are you visiting, are you staying on property, and - this is a telling question - how many days are you visiting the WDW parks. All questions geared towards are you staying on property and if so, how much time are you in our parks when staying on property. Never questions about my opinion of the parks. You can tell where their focus is right now.

Anyway, must get to bed. I love watching the workers putting up the bungalows from the Poly club at breakfast. I always enjoy your threads, @WDW1974 . Your in-your-face honesty and occasional 'snarkasm' is always welcome, as are your insights.

 

[dhall]

Sadly it's the death throes of a dying concept. The Disney we knew is no longer sustainable, and the quality we've grown to expect simply costs too much. The balance sheet needs to show endless profits, and the only way to do that is to become Walmart.

That's complete and utter nonsense, but that is current management's thinking.

 

[ParentsOf4]

It occurs to me that Disney's apparent decision to convert additional Deluxe Resort rooms to DVC is exactly the kind of move corporate leadership makes when it doesn't believe in its own ability to grow the business. It's indicative of an organization that has given up on "best in class" and has instead settled for "good enough".

Nearly all great business ventures were started by those who were passionate about what they did. Those businesses thrived as long as leadership remained passionate and had vision.

As I've suggested before, today's Disney leadership lacks passion for what they do. They have no vision. To them, the theme parks are nothing more than (very large) paychecks.

I typically avoid the 'What would Walt do?" hypotheticals but, in this case, I can't help but think that Walt Disney would be mortified by how WDW is being run.

 

[stevehousse]

I'm just shocked that instead of turning every deluxe into DVC, they don't just lower their hotel prices for one year as a "test" to see how much better their occupancy rates would be...it's asinine...

 

[Longhairbear]

I firmly believe it is bonuses for the executives in the short term.
I also think we will see the start of "One DVC", much like "One Disney" where all the plates, bedding, furniture, lamps will all become the same at some point in the future. Remember the styrofoam cups at the studio villas? And all of it to line the wallets of executives with more, and larger bonuses.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Reading this, i felt a need to comment.
It only takes one person with a idea to get the ball rolling and make a big change happen.
You would be amazed at what a difference one person can make by stepping out on the edge and proposing something.

Example that immediately comes to mind -

This very website*s Forum, WDWMagic.com, was used by a certain Member back in 2007 to rally the masses and turn around the Company*s decision to not honor or celebrate EPCOT*s 25th anniversary.
The WDC publically announced it was blowing it off...and just doing a private acknowledgment for CMs.
With a lot of fans upset and disappointed, there was a huge outcry.


Enter said Member, who started a thread right here and asked *Why can*t we just all show up and celebrate ourselves?*
Member pitched the concept and immediately people came on board to help make it a reality.
Thus began a crusade, and that tiny pebble started rolling and ended up becoming a gigantic boulder - a force to reckon with thanks to the help of several key participants.
Then the press picked up on *the movement*..and the rest is history.

Disney did a complete turnaround, retracted it*s original plans and instead rolled out the red carpet in ways that any serious longtime EPCOT Center geek would appreciate.
They went above what was being assumingly expected at that time, and for most who attended the Event that day, it was mind blowing.

It was a incredible story of how it all happened, and that 25th Birthday of the Park was a wonderful day to experience. Just a massive turnout of people, and it all ended up being quite a memorable public event happening after all.
This was long before D23 existed and capitalized on the idea when the 30th came around...and charged people big bucks to attend it. The 25th was free for ALL lovers of EPCOT and it*s history, and it only happened because of the power of the people.
The fans rallying together POSITIVELY made a huge difference, and Disney history was made that day.


Search *EPCOTs 25th* to learn more.
It was quite a spectacle.

I am proud to have been a part of making all of that happen.
Actually, i was the little dragon that started the thread here....but i digress.....

I know a Park Anniversary event is probably not considered on the same tier as major Park improvements or enhancements, but my point of this post is to show that with the right attitude and the right people in place, BIG CHANGES *CAN* happen.
If one just sits by the sidelines and does nothing, then *nothing* is what will happen.
You have to MAKE it happen...and have others with the same passion for such things help you to achieve that goal.

I know firsthand how powerful social media in the fan community can be.
The key is what i stated earlier - POSITIVE attitude ( no wining and ) and the RIGHT people on your side.

Hope this will inspire folks to *take a chance* and run with it.



And now, not to further derail the topic on hand, let us return to the topic of DVC.

I despise it.
Always have, and i have never been shy in expressing that opinion.
It is indeed a terrible cancer that has slowly been destroying WDW over the last few years.
Those who buy into it do not seem to understand that by doing so, they are helping to destroy the very thing they profess to love.
It is a vicious, destructive circle that is sucking the vital essence out of what was once a beautiful landscaped-by-nature *Vacation KIngdom of the World*.
Now it is littered with *condos* and poorly designed *apartment complexes*.
Breaks the heart to see the atrocities taking place on Florida soil.
I think this is one of the reasons i stopped visiting and now focus on Disneyland instead.
It is just too damn depressing for me now to visit WDW.

I love you, but slinging out cupcakes and Marty Sklar and a fireworks tag for one day is not BIG CHANGE. Plus, the 25th celebration seems to have been the work of a single exec, not the whole company or even TDO admitting some kind of fault. Getting TWDC to drastically change the way it thinks about its "DisneyParks Florida"? That's BIG CHANGE! I doubt Iger, Staggs and Rasulo would even listen to a dissenter within their inner circle who was telling them they've got it wrong.

Several members, I'm sure someone can identify them. The most recent effort was called " Fix the Magic" or something. Don't think it ever got past the "what should the logo look like??" stage. It never works.

I believe it was Fix the Magic, but it did actually operate for a while (I think at least a year). I know because I posted about how faded and nasty the laptop screen in the 90's section at Pop was (been that way since at least 2006, btw, and probably still is today). It never really caught on, and the webmaster didn't want to pay for it anymore.

Since we're talkin tepees, where they actual tepees (like tents) on platforms over the water or more huts with teepee looking tops. I'm still struggling with the look.

Aside from the look, the water area down by the dock at WL is particularly buggy and swampy. Could be more problematic than the Poly location.

The map in the office in the DVD building clearly shows a little squiggly line with green on one side and blue on the other side.... that means clear blue water, right? Why would you need to go to WL and look at it?

They have managed to equal and exceed legendary Disney quality in the new build out, but, they do not have Walt's legacy.

I'm pretty sure Walt's legacy is just laying around somewhere in the Boneyard north of BLT. Uni could just drive by and pick it up off the ground; TDO doesn't want it anymore.

 

[matt9112]

There is no doubt DVC moving into a resort has a number of impacts. In most cases though, I think the guests staying there as non DVC members win with upgraded amenities. I usually feel it is the villas side that is a bit lacking - often with no dedicated checkin/front desk, no nearby pool etc.

Other than potential price increases and reduction in availability, I don't see this as a bad thing for WL regulars.

those price increases are huge...and you know it Steve...you hardly can afford to go to WDW anymore.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

It occurs to me that Disney's apparent decision to convert additional Deluxe Resort rooms to DVC is exactly the kind of decision corporate leadership makes when it doesn't believe in its own ability to grow the business. It's indicative of an organization that has given up on "best in class" and has instead settled for "good enough".

Yes, to me, the conversion of hundreds of deluxe hotel rooms to DVC villas suggests that they believe a ceiling has been reached. It reminds me of the quote, in order to achieve our goals we must lower our standards. Instead of developing an aggressive market strategy to fill unoccupied rooms, they will remove hundreds of rooms from the inventory and artificially inflate the occupancy rate.

 

[Figments Friend]

I love you, but slinging out cupcakes and Marty Sklar and a fireworks tag for one day is not BIG CHANGE. Plus, the 25th celebration seems to have been the work of a single exec, not the whole company or even TDO admitting some kind of fault. Getting TWDC to drastically change the way it thinks about its "DisneyParks Florida"? That's BIG CHANGE! I doubt Iger, Staggs and Rasulo would even listen to a dissenter within their inner circle who was telling them they've got it wrong.

Cupcakes...?
We did'nt have any for the 25th that i recall...but we did enjoy a sack load of Mickey Bars instead at the end of the evening.


As noted in my post, i realize that a Park Anniversary celebration can be considered in some opinions to be in a different tier as far as 'importance' goes...so i agree with what you are saying.
MAJOR changes, from within the Company, can only really happen 'within the Company' to some degree.
However, it still takes people on the outside willing to suggest and support those changes in some positive way to get the ball rolling.

I will agree that the extreme higher ups within the WDC are fairly isolated in some respects. The attitude about the Florida property is not going to change anytime soon, but people 'out there' can still voice concern and most importantly, 'vote with their wallets'.

At some point i hope to see big changes in that attitude towards WDW, but i seriously have doubts that will take place until a major shakeup or economic collapse happens.

Here's hoping .....