The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[crispy]

Voting with your dollar comes to mind. There are other theme parks. Other Disney parks. Or other destinations around the world that are quite popular and they have no rides meet and greets or DVC. As I explained I haven't been on these boards for quite a while. I don't mean to be a jerk or belittle your complaining about the state of WDW. But as long as people (who should know better) keep spending money at wdw while they do nothing then I don't blame them for not adding anything.

I also believe that money talks. Many of us have stopped going to Disney, visit other parks instead of WDW, limit their trips, etc., but truthfully, there is someone standing in line to replace the dollars we don't spend. That's the crux of the problem. When people stop staying at over-priced Disney hotels, they start turning them into DVC to make up the difference. When sales on food an merchandise dip a bit, prices get raised to cover it because SOMEONE (not necessarily you and me) will pay it. We all love Disney. We all see the issues. We see how the promise short-term profits are overruling common sense. Unfortunately, WE see it, but money people don't. And they are going to continue to visit and spend money even when we don't.

We often say that people often have to hit rock bottom before they can pick themselves. We see that at some point the short-sighted decisions that are being made now will come home to roost. The die-hards, the once-in-a-lifetimers, and the foreign tourists are going to be priced out at some point. Maybe then will we see a change because WDW will have hit rock bottom. But I don't wish for that because I love WDW. I would love to have an effective way to turn the tide before they reach rock bottom (and I'm not sure that tee-pees on the water, isn't it), but me "just not going" isn't going to do much in the grand scheme of things (even though it does make me feel better).

 

[CDavid]

I wouldn't be shocked if happens to Port Orleans because it now looks like Disney has been setting the French Quarter to decrease attendance on purpose despite the redoing of the rooms a couple years ago.

I am saying that because of how Disney has been treating the French Quarter for the last couple years like the French Quarter hasn't been offered the free dining for people that live in the United States, and not being mentioned on Walt Disney World - Lodging Walt Disney World Resort Hotels episode on Destination America despite Port Orleans Riverside being mentioned. I also know the Port Orleans French Quarter hasn't hasn't been receiving discounts for the last couple years at least either.

Since Disney has manipulate survey's in the past like the Main Street Electrical Parade and leave Spectro Magic to riot, who says Disney isn't capable of manipulating thing outside of survey's.

What is the occupancy rate at Port Orleans (French Quarter), though? Are the lack of discounts/free dining intentional or do they merely reflect a resort with less of an occupancy problem than the other moderates or Dixie Landings (Riverside) next door? Although it lacks some moderate resort amenities (because Disney likes to pretend it and Dixie are one resort), its more compact size seems to hold greater appeal for some guests.

Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken, but there haven't been many (or any) discounts at Art of Animation's standard (Little Mermaid) rooms either; It was my assumption Disney had no trouble filling those rooms.

 

[jrriddle]

What to know what I think? Of course you don't but I'm going to tell you anyway. I think that they are right. It is going to take at least 3 more generations before Disney loses the uniqueness that makes it Disney. Old Walt left a very deep foot print and it is going to take a long time to fill in.

In the meantime, Universal is investing millions and millions into a park which will never be anymore then just another interesting place to see when people come down to visit Disney. The amount of people needed to support Universal has to increase by huge numbers to ever justify spending what Disney already has over the last 40+ years. Disney isn't playing catch up Universal is.

They have managed to equal and exceed legendary Disney quality in the new build out, but, they do not have Walt's legacy. TWDC is not wrong in thinking that all they have to do is sit back and wait for Uni to have spent to their break even point and they will stop building new stuff. Why, because corporate and stock holders will demand a massive return on the investments and it is going to take years to payback their current rate of expansion.

They will be a great park, with great and amazing attractions, but, they will never have the Princesses and the Mouse and the gang that today's children have been raised with. Admission prices aren't even all that different. Their target audience is much older in physical years, but, still stuck in a world of fantasy and that is what the continuing success of the HP franchise is going to require. The children (small ones) are accommodated in areas, but, they are not targeted. Disney will remain the family destination for a long time to come and may never lose that identity. However, Universal Orlando will be an extremely worthwhile place to visit for a day or two, which is an expansion of one day over what they have always had.

In short, Disney has a lot of time to go before they need to care what Universal is doing. Unless Uni keeps upgrading their new stuff, it will grow as stale as what everyone thinks that Disney has become. It's an expensive business to be in.

No argument from me. I'm sure 50 years from now there will be conversations about how complacent Uni is.

 

[Stevek]

I find it odd that 20 pages in and no one is really irate that Disney knew about Potter 2 coming (in some detail from what I gather) and they did nothing. Everyone is upset about a resort being converted to DVC? This complacency seems to be the problem. Everyone just accepts that TDO is going to do nothing. So let's complain about the loss of a resort. I think the bigger issue,adding nothing impressive to the parks, is just being accepted by everyone because that's what TDO always does. As long as this is the general attitude then I don't blame them for not responding to Potter. Why bother.

I don't think people are really accepting that TDO is doing nothing. There are probably hundreds of pages or posts flaming TDO for doing nothing either in response to Potter or in general. "Nothing" being subjective as they clearly brought us a new FL, revamped Test Track and other various changes. The reality is that many people think that what they've done just isn't enough and their focus overall is quite mis-guided i.e. DVC.

 

[jrriddle]

I also believe that money talks. Many of us have stopped going to Disney, visit other parks instead of WDW, limit their trips, etc., but truthfully, there is someone standing in line to replace the dollars we don't spend. That's the crux of the problem. When people stop staying at over-priced Disney hotels, they start turning them into DVC to make up the difference. When sales on food an merchandise dip a bit, prices get raised to cover it because SOMEONE (not necessarily you and me) will pay it. We all love Disney. We all see the issues. We see how the promise short-term profits are overruling common sense. Unfortunately, WE see it, but money people don't. And they are going to continue to visit and spend money even when we don't.

We often say that people often have to hit rock bottom before they can pick themselves. We see that at some point the short-sighted decisions that are being made now will come home to roost. The die-hards, the once-in-a-lifetimers, and the foreign tourists are going to be priced out at some point. Maybe then will we see a change because WDW will have hit rock bottom. But I don't wish for that because I love WDW. I would love to have an effective way to turn the tide before they reach rock bottom (and I'm not sure that tee-pees on the water, isn't it), but me "just not going" isn't going to do much in the grand scheme of things (even though it does make me feel better).

That is a well written reply. Thank you. I like Disney myself but I'm just saying if you don't like what's happening then don't feed the problem with vacation money (speaking generally not specifically to you). There's a real France a real Norway and so many other amazing places to see in this world. If you don't like what Disney is doing and you don't care for Uni then go travel the world. It's a great place with a lot of really great people.

 

[jrriddle]

I don't think people are really accepting that TDO is doing nothing. There are probably hundreds of pages or posts flaming TDO for doing nothing either in response to Potter or in general. "Nothing" being subjective as they clearly brought us a new FL, revamped Test Track and other various changes. The reality is that many people think that what they've done just isn't enough and their focus overall is quite mis-guided i.e. DVC.

I get it. I'm still claiming ignorance and being absent. please see my reply to Crispy.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

What to know what I think? Of course you don't but I'm going to tell you anyway. I think that they are right. It is going to take at least 3 more generations before Disney loses the uniqueness that makes it Disney. Old Walt left a very deep foot print and it is going to take a long time to fill in.

In the meantime, Universal is investing millions and millions into a park which will never be anymore then just another interesting place to see when people come down to visit Disney. The amount of people needed to support Universal has to increase by huge numbers to ever justify spending what Disney already has over the last 40+ years. Disney isn't playing catch up Universal is.

They have managed to equal and exceed legendary Disney quality in the new build out, but, they do not have Walt's legacy. TWDC is not wrong in thinking that all they have to do is sit back and wait for Uni to have spent to their break even point and they will stop building new stuff. Why, because corporate and stock holders will demand a massive return on the investments and it is going to take years to payback their current rate of expansion.

They will be a great park, with great and amazing attractions, but, they will never have the Princesses and the Mouse and the gang that today's children have been raised with. Admission prices aren't even all that different. Their target audience is much older in physical years, but, still stuck in a world of fantasy and that is what the continuing success of the HP franchise is going to require. The children (small ones) are accommodated in areas, but, they are not targeted. Disney will remain the family destination for a long time to come and may never lose that identity. However, Universal Orlando will be an extremely worthwhile place to visit for a day or two, which is an expansion of one day over what they have always had.

In short, Disney has a lot of time to go before they need to care what Universal is doing. Unless Uni keeps upgrading their new stuff, it will grow as stale as what everyone thinks that Disney has become. It's an expensive business to be in.

You may be very right from a practical and financial sense. But it won't bring me back to WDW. At their current plans, Universal will bring me back- but it will cost Disney two full days of my trip when they used to have all of them.

 

[CDavid]

What to know what I think? Of course you don't but I'm going to tell you anyway. I think that they are right. It is going to take at least 3 more generations before Disney loses the uniqueness that makes it Disney. Old Walt left a very deep foot print and it is going to take a long time to fill in.

In the meantime, Universal is investing millions and millions into a park which will never be anymore then just another interesting place to see when people come down to visit Disney. The amount of people needed to support Universal has to increase by huge numbers to ever justify spending what Disney already has over the last 40+ years. Disney isn't playing catch up Universal is.

They have managed to equal and exceed legendary Disney quality in the new build out, but, they do not have Walt's legacy. TWDC is not wrong in thinking that all they have to do is sit back and wait for Uni to have spent to their break even point and they will stop building new stuff. Why, because corporate and stock holders will demand a massive return on the investments and it is going to take years to payback their current rate of expansion.

They will be a great park, with great and amazing attractions, but, they will never have the Princesses and the Mouse and the gang that today's children have been raised with. Admission prices aren't even all that different. Their target audience is much older in physical years, but, still stuck in a world of fantasy and that is what the continuing success of the HP franchise is going to require. The children (small ones) are accommodated in areas, but, they are not targeted. Disney will remain the family destination for a long time to come and may never lose that identity. However, Universal Orlando will be an extremely worthwhile place to visit for a day or two, which is an expansion of one day over what they have always had.

In short, Disney has a lot of time to go before they need to care what Universal is doing. Unless Uni keeps upgrading their new stuff, it will grow as stale as what everyone thinks that Disney has become. It's an expensive business to be in.

My concern is that both you and Disney executives greatly overestimate "brand loyalty" on the part of vacation guests; Detroit once made the same mistake, and we know how that turned out. Walt Disney World thrives on repeat visitors, yet the Disney parks aren't giving them the new, innovative, and exciting attraction and themed experiences they are looking for. At the same time, there are two or three largely (or wholly) unexplored parks just up I-4, which hold strong appeal, and are in the midst of a rapid growth and expansion similar to that which once drew many new guests to Walt Disney World. Nostalgia is a very powerful motivator, but it only takes you so far; I think we're much closer to the edge of the cliff than you realize.

The perception of Disney parks as the "family destination", and Universal as more for teens and adults, is potentially one of Disney's most serious problems. We've probably all heard of people who erroneously think of the Magic Kingdom as more of a park for kids, which aside from the MK mountains would hold limited appeal for adults (with the inverse possibly true at Epcot). Disney may be able to keep pushing the ball down the road a bit longer, but they need to be very concerned with what Universal (and also central Florida and nationwide tourist destinations) is doing right now. The deeper hole you dig, the longer (and harder) to dig yourself back out.

 

[crispy]

That is a well written reply. Thank you. I like Disney myself but I'm just saying if you don't like what's happening then don't feed the problem with vacation money (speaking generally not specifically to you). There's a real France a real Norway and so many other amazing places to see in this world. If you don't like what Disney is doing and you don't care for Uni then go travel the world. It's a great place with a lot of really great people.

Agreed. We are not, and have never been, Disney only people. I don't think you'll find many people here who are. In the past three years, my family has visited at least 15 states and two Canadian provinces which isn't the easiest thing to do with young kids (we love road trips!). Unfortunately, traveling to the real France and the real Norway just isn't in my budget right now.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

What is the occupancy rate at Port Orleans (French Quarter), though? Are the lack of discounts/free dining intentional or do they merely reflect a resort with less of an occupancy problem than the other moderates or Dixie Landings (Riverside) next door? Although it lacks some moderate resort amenities (because Disney likes to pretend it and Dixie are one resort), its more compact size seems to hold greater appeal for some guests.

Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken, but there haven't been many (or any) discounts at Art of Animation's standard (Little Mermaid) rooms either; It was my assumption Disney had no trouble filling those rooms.

The only recent information I got on that is what Gabe1 mentioned earlier in this thread on page 10. Gabe1 posted while she was at the French Quarter for almost 2 weeks in April, The French Quarter has 1/3 or 1/2 of its buildings not used at a time that the Riverside was overbooked.

What Gabe1 mentioned was different than what I experienced in late August to the day after Labor Day last year while I stayed at the French Quarter. The only thing I can think is the French Quarter get very busy certain times of the year or a trend changed.

Before the information Gabe1 posted, I thought the lack of discounts and not promoting it was caused the rooms being filled due to the info I read in the past in terms of booking.

 

[crispy]

I get it. I'm still claiming ignorance and being absent. please see my reply to Crispy.

If you have a few years, you can read through all the Spirited threads.

 

[Jennifer66]

The perception of Disney parks as the "family destination", and Universal as more for teens and adults, is potentially one of Disney's most serious problems. We've probably all heard of people who erroneously think of the Magic Kingdom as more of a park for kids, which aside from the MK mountains would hold limited appeal for adults (with the inverse possibly true at Epcot). Disney may be able to keep pushing the ball down the road a bit longer, but they need to be very concerned with what Universal (and also central Florida and nationwide tourist destinations) is doing right now. The deeper hole you dig, the longer (and harder) to dig yourself back out.

My family is a good example of this. When our kids were younger, we took them to WDW, but now they would much, much rather go to Uni (they are 17 & 19), so that's where we go when we decide to go to Florida. We are doing a long weekend at WDW next month because I "won" park tickets at a charity auction, but it will just be my DH and me (how do I FP that concrete at EP?)
As far as the nostalgia quotient goes, I'm over it. I'm sure when we eventually have grandchildren we will take them to WDW, but almost assuredly not exclusively like we did with our kids--there's too much to do in the Orlando area.
We also would never consider DVC or any timeshare because we don't want to locked into a limited amount of choices or one company, and I am against the whole concept (anyone remember the obnoxious "sell your timeshare for cash" commercial that played incessantly?). I also will probably never stay onsite again. As almost everyone has stated, the prices are out of control for the product received. I'll stick to the Swalphin.

 

[Atomicmickey]

Come on, jt. You know as well as I do that they don't use the money from DVC to fuel content, or upkeep, or expansion. If that were actually the case, you'd see a lot less complaining on this site and a whole heck of a lot more discussion about the excitement of the new projects coming down the pipe.

DVC has become a necessary evil. It's required for them to continue to build and sell because they have to "feed the beast". They've got to show Wall Street the numbers every quarter, and there are very few ways to do that as quickly and with as high margin as DVC. So they add. If they don't, the quarterly report doesn't look nearly as good, the shareholders aren't happy, the stock drops, and it hits those in charge where it hurts... In their pocket.

Don't be naive... The people in charge are not focusing on the long term health of the P&R division... They're focusing on the short term profitability of the division during their tenure in charge. They know they're not there forever, and they're not concerned about what happens when they're gone. They want to do whatever they can to bank as much $$ personally as possible, while they can. You don't do that by spending billions in new attractions, or gates, or virtually anything that you can't show a direct (and fast) ROI on. You do that by wringing more blood out of the turnip. You do it with smoke and mirrors. You spend billions to data mine and increase guest spend without them noticing. You tie them into decades long contracts for hotel rooms they pay for the right to use and get them to pay for your own resort infrastructure and amenities in the form of yearly dues. Cut back on the number of hotel rooms (and therefore expense) at the same time?? Even better.

Over the past decade, the ways WDW has blatantly tried to squeeze more out of every guest are numerous and sickening, IMO. And it's not because I don't like capitalism. I own multiple companies myself. It's sickening to me because they're not giving anything back at the same time. They're not keeping the parks fresh. They're not opening shuttered restaurants and attractions and locations. They're not GIVING anything. They're only TAKING.

A large majority of their guests are sheep... And they know it.

Unfortunately, it seems to me, a lot of corporate America is like this these days. Sigh.

 

[tirian]

We've known or suspected this for a while, and most people have been irate since Uni announced DA and Disney announced nothing. People can only repeat the same frustration so many times online—even though the anger is justified now more than ever before.

I find it odd that 20 pages in and no one is really irate that Disney knew about Potter 2 coming (in some detail from what I gather) and they did nothing. Everyone is upset about a resort being converted to DVC? This complacency seems to be the problem. Everyone just accepts that TDO is going to do nothing. So let's complain about the loss of a resort. I think the bigger issue,adding nothing impressive to the parks, is just being accepted by everyone because that's what TDO always does. As long as this is the general attitude then I don't blame them for not responding to Potter. Why bother.

 

[jrriddle]

Agreed. We are not, and have never been, Disney only people. I don't think you'll find many people here who are. In the past three years, my family has visited at least 15 states and two Canadian provinces which isn't the easiest thing to do with young kids (we love road trips!). Unfortunately, traveling to the real France and the real Norway just isn't in my budget right now.

Well if you & the family ever get up to Toronto PM me the wife & I will play tour guides

 

[tirian]

Let's summarize reality:

• Disney is coasting on nostalgia without actually investing in WDW, beyond disappointing additions and necessary infrastructure upgrades. Those disappointments include FLE, with its bad forced perspective and lackluster rides; Pandora, which will be gorgeous but is based on a concept few people care about; and DVC villas, which would be great if Disney gave us a reason to return to the parks. A refreshed parade and hub expansion don't count for much when Epcot and DHS are shadows of their former glory.

• Epcot is stale, and shoehorning Frozen into an environment where it doesn't fit won't fix Future World or the open-air nightclub that was once called World Showcase. But look! A paint store puked all over Innoventions.

• The most obvious expansion still hasn't happened at DHS, and the park's centerpiece remains a plastic hat that sells pieces of tin.

• Disney Springs is coming. Hooray?

• TDO is trapped by its multi-billion dollar investment into MM+, a program specifically designed to rip money from you and move you around the theme parks without having to actually invest in new things to do.

• The resorts are grossly overpriced by any standard.

• The old mentality that WDW is a showcase for future technology and improving the world—indeed, the idea that Disney should do amazing things simply because it CAN—is dead. Look at the bus routes and broken monorails as examples.

• The WDC itself has become a collection of franchises that don't relate to one another and replace creativity with products.

• Artistic integrity, the joy of filmmaking, and the magic of theme parks are dead at the WDC.

• Despite the problems, the company makes money hand over fist. The Disney Channel is some of the worst tripe on TV, but it controls the tween market. "Frozen" was a moderately decent movie hailed as the Second Coming of Walt. Marvel movies are essentially mechanized products with a known sex offender directing the most glossy productions. ABC is an albatross that nevertheless makes money.

• It all makes money.

• Lots of money.

• Iger is named Best CEO and our complaints on a message board don't matter.

• Our opinions are, nevertheless, right.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You may be very right from a practical and financial sense. But it won't bring me back to WDW. At their current plans, Universal will bring me back- but it will cost Disney two full days of my trip when they used to have all of them.

Yes, but you're still going to WDW aren't you? Until that stops, WDW will still be the big wheel on the block.

My concern is that both you and Disney executives greatly overestimate "brand loyalty" on the part of vacation guests; Detroit once made the same mistake, and we know how that turned out. Walt Disney World thrives on repeat visitors, yet the Disney parks aren't giving them the new, innovative, and exciting attraction and themed experiences they are looking for. At the same time, there are two or three largely (or wholly) unexplored parks just up I-4, which hold strong appeal, and are in the midst of a rapid growth and expansion similar to that which once drew many new guests to Walt Disney World. Nostalgia is a very powerful motivator, but it only takes you so far; I think we're much closer to the edge of the cliff than you realize.

The perception of Disney parks as the "family destination", and Universal as more for teens and adults, is potentially one of Disney's most serious problems. We've probably all heard of people who erroneously think of the Magic Kingdom as more of a park for kids, which aside from the MK mountains would hold limited appeal for adults (with the inverse possibly true at Epcot). Disney may be able to keep pushing the ball down the road a bit longer, but they need to be very concerned with what Universal (and also central Florida and nationwide tourist destinations) is doing right now. The deeper hole you dig, the longer (and harder) to dig yourself back out.

I don't think that the teens and young adults have ever been what was drawing folks to WDW. When you have a family, you go where the demand is. The younger ones will outweigh the influence of the older ones, especially if the older ones have already been there. The idea that MK is for kids is, of course, still a concern, but, it always has been. Once many people, myself included, brought my kids to WDW, I was hooked as well because then I knew it wasn't just for kids. Universal may very well be exactly what is needed for the adults or adult couples with no children that haven't ever experienced WDW, but that is the way it has been since Uni was first built and especially after IOA was built.

I think that there is a real possibility that one can way underestimate the power and hold of the "Brand Loyalty". This is especially true of a Disney Park. It promises many things and, whether we care to admit it or not, still delivers on many, many of those promises.

Remember I have been a visitor to WDW regularly since 1983. My children have long since grown up and have children of their own. I am still drawn back to the place and my eyes have not gotten completely filled in with pixie dust. They are wide open and I do see the REAL differences between then and now and it isn't what people seem to think it is. I'm also getting older and may or may not be able to go many more times, but, I still do, just like I did when Uni first opened up, share my vacation time between Disney and Uni, as well as Seaworld and a multitude of other places in central Florida. I have no interest in HP at all other then the fact that I would like to see it so I can have a real opinion. I also have 3 grandchildren between the ages of 12 and 14 and absolutely none of them have any interest at all in HP. HP isn't going away, but, like everything else, new things show up and people look in different directions. Uni seems to have a strong edge right now, but, will it stay that way? If history means anything, not to the degree it is right now.

BTW, in the event that people are scratching their heads and wondering exactly what this has to do with DVC's, it is exactly why they are still and will remain a source of revenue to Disney even if they never set foot in a Disney park.

 

[PeterAlt]

Well, on a very gloomy, sad and depressing Thursday evening, let's talk some about WDW's future roadmap.

Let's look at what is coming and why? And what the plans say about WDW's current and future business model.

Also, as a favor to Steve and Marcia, let's try and stick to the few topics here. I'll still pop into Seventh Heaven for anything goes type discussion of WDW, UNI and general media and entertainment talk. So, if ya'll are ready, these are some things you may find interesting (if you don't, you don't need to express it here, just move on to one of the countless threads here that does interest you):

WDW's biggest DVC expansion has started and it is not going to take place (for now) where you think;
WDW is effectively done with deluxe resorts. You won't see a new one ever built unless a significant change happens in management;
WDW can't fill the resorts that it has, so be ready to watch rooms disappear;
WDW has thrown in the towel on Flamingo Crossing. It isn't happening. Dead;
Oh, and one little thing about Disney and UNI and how there are no secrets in the business ... we'll talk about that too.

OK, let's go ...

It's the End of the World as I Know it but I Feel Fine!



Seriously, they're not going to finish the EC resorts? Or will they just build moderate priced rooms on those two lots? Something's not right...

 

[SirLink]

Let's summarize reality:

• Disney is coasting on nostalgia without actually investing in WDW, beyond disappointing additions and necessary infrastructure upgrades. Those disappointments include FLE, with its bad forced perspective and lackluster rides; Pandora, which will be gorgeous but is based on a concept few people care about; and DVC villas, which would be great if Disney gave us a reason to return to the parks. A refreshed parade and hub expansion don't count for much when Epcot and DHS are shadows of their former glory.

• Epcot is stale, and shoehorning Frozen into an environment where it doesn't fit won't fix Future World or the open-air nightclub that was once called World Showcase. But look! A paint store puked all over Innoventions.

• The most obvious expansion still hasn't happened at DHS, and the park's centerpiece remains a plastic hat that sells pieces of tin.

• Disney Springs is coming. Hooray?

• TDO is trapped by its multi-billion dollar investment into MM+, a program specifically designed to rip money from you and move you around the theme parks without having to actually invest in new things to do.

• The resorts are grossly overpriced by any standard.

• The old mentality that WDW is a showcase for future technology and improving the world—indeed, the idea that Disney should do amazing things simply because it CAN—is dead. Look at the bus routes and broken monorails as examples.

• The WDC itself has become a collection of franchises that don't relate to one another and replace creativity with products.

• Artistic integrity, the joy of filmmaking, and the magic of theme parks are dead at the WDC.

• Despite the problems, the company makes money hand over fist. The Disney Channel is some of the worst tripe on TV, but it controls the tween market. "Frozen" was a moderately decent movie hailed as the Second Coming of Walt. Marvel movies are essentially mechanized products with a known sex offender directing the most glossy productions. ABC is an albatross that nevertheless makes money.

• It all makes money.

• Lots of money.

• Iger is named Best CEO and our complaints on a message board don't matter.

• Our opinions are, nevertheless, right.

I would say Marvel is the best part of TWDC and that is mainly because of Marvel being Marvel. We shall see with Ant Man though.

Just gotta hope they pull someone in from the outside that has a passion for intelligent entertainment. Maybe we can reverse the last decade of TWDC.

 

[tirian]

They're the best products, even though most of the last few movies have felt extremely similar. (Hence why even the critics who liked X-Men—DOFP noted that all recent Marvel movies are essentially the same).

But like you said, that's just Marvel being Marvel. Guardians looks like it will be a decently fun movie, complete with the typical unintelligible final action scene.

I would say Marvel is the best part of TWDC and that is mainly because of Marvel being Marvel. We shall see with Ant Man though.

Just gotta hope they pull someone in from the outside that has a passion for intelligent entertainment. Maybe we can reverse the last decade of TWDC.