The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[Richterbon23]

I'm not asking this to be flippant... It's a sincere question...

The problems in the parks were highly evident long before 3 years ago when you bought in. What are you seeing now that you didn't 3 years ago? Or is it a situation where at the time you were more new to the parks and just couldn't notice the issues? Was it an impulse buy or something (like we hear happens to SOOOOO many people)?

I'm genuinely curious.

EDIT TO ADD: Probably 12 years ago I went through the whole DVC spiel. This was when we first started vacationing at the parks a few times a year, when we started having kids. We had maybe 10 visits under our belts at the time (so it's not like we were complete rookies). We got so far as to have the paperwork sent to us and everything... But I just couldn't bring myself to make a multi-decade commitment. Thank the flying spaghetti monster I didn't sign on that dotted line. Since then, we've seen what's continued to happen at the property, and just gotten smarter in general. For example, if we had known about resale at the time, there's no way we would have even gotten as close as we did at the time.

But my point is... We were fairly familiar with the parks and so forth, and even WE almost pulled the trigger on what would have been looked at for decades as an albatross and an impulse buy. If WE almost did that... I can't think of how many thousands of others do the same thing and actually put pen to paper.

No I was very aware of the problems... Deep inside I had hope that they would change the way they were doing things. Bit unfortunately they haven't.

My wife and I were planning to get married in Disney but decided to buy DVC instead and have a wedding back home. Don't get me wrong I love Disney, but I am well aware of the issues and every year it is getting a little easier to not go for as long or whatever. Each year we have gone to UNI for a little longer and based on what I am hearing from DA it will be longer. I could sit in hogsmeade all day!

 

[henrycpa91]

So lets say it hits 2042 ( so I was a little out by three years) and Disney refuses to renew any contract that expires that year. Can they not legally? Or is it more theorised as "well we can still sell it and collect the maintenance so it doesn't cost us a thing"?

Actually, that is the beauty of doing a DVC2 at Beach Club Resort...they could simply "add" the existing BCV1 inventory to the DVC2 and let it all end at the same time! This actually solves a problem for DVD about not needing to "extend" BCV...and that would be true for BWV as well...

 

[jt04]

Come on, jt. You know as well as I do that they don't use the money from DVC to fuel content, or upkeep, or expansion. If that were actually the case, you'd see a lot less complaining on this site and a whole heck of a lot more discussion about the excitement of the new projects coming down the pipe.

DVC has become a necessary evil. It's required for them to continue to build and sell because they have to "feed the beast". They've got to show Wall Street the numbers every quarter, and there are very few ways to do that as quickly and with as high margin as DVC. So they add. If they don't, the quarterly report doesn't look nearly as good, the shareholders aren't happy, the stock drops, and it hits those in charge where it hurts... In their pocket.

Don't be naive... The people in charge are not focusing on the long term health of the P&R division... They're focusing on the short term profitability of the division during their tenure in charge. They know they're not there forever, and they're not concerned about what happens when they're gone. They want to do whatever they can to bank as much $$ personally as possible, while they can. You don't do that by spending billions in new attractions, or gates, or virtually anything that you can't show a direct (and fast) ROI on. You do that by wringing more blood out of the turnip. You do it with smoke and mirrors. You spend billions to data mine and increase guest spend without them noticing. You tie them into decades long contracts for hotel rooms they pay for the right to use and get them to pay for your own resort infrastructure and amenities in the form of yearly dues. Cut back on the number of hotel rooms (and therefore expense) at the same time?? Even better.

Over the past decade, the ways WDW has blatantly tried to squeeze more out of every guest are numerous and sickening, IMO. And it's not because I don't like capitalism. I own multiple companies myself. It's sickening to me because they're not giving anything back at the same time. They're not keeping the parks fresh. They're not opening shuttered restaurants and attractions and locations. They're not GIVING anything. They're only TAKING.

A large majority of their guests are sheep... And they know it.

Here is how I see it with my rose colored glasses. Disney Springs will move DVC memberships at SSR. Pandora and other adds coming to DAK will move DVC memberships at the AKL. Proving that adding content to the resorts has wide-ranging economic benefits. The ultimate win-win. I just have more faith in people than many here. I just don't think there is some grand conspiritorial money grab going on. If there was there would not be construction going on every where you look. OBJ even had an article documenting all the progress.

 

[SirLink]

Actually, that is the beauty of doing a DVC2 at Beach Club Resort...they could simply "add" the existing BCV1 inventory to the DVC2 and let it all end at the same time! This actually solves a problem for DVD about not needing to "extend" BCV...and that would be true for BWV as well...

That sounds terrible either way. DVC needs to go the way of PAL Mickey.

 

[George]

Jt, even you can't gloss over this huge mess.

A motion cinema and a boat ride (if we're lucky) and a rebuilt mall won't help much.

Until WDIs outrageous overcharging is reigned in and we see some serious 10 figure investment in the parks there will be long term investment in everything BUT the parks.

Remember them? The theme parks?

The Giant Ball Place used to be pretty cool. Is it still around?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

The Giant Ball Place used to be pretty cool. Is it still around?

Yeah, that's the place with the booze and the countries. You can travel the world and get sloshed at the same time! So amazing

 

[henrycpa91]

That sounds terrible either way. DVC needs to go the way of PAL Mickey.

I meant "Beauty" from the Disney/DVC/DVD perspective....

 

[SirLink]

Jt, even you can't gloss over this huge mess.

A motion cinema and a boat ride (if we're lucky) and a rebuilt mall won't help much.

Until WDIs outrageous overcharging is reigned in and we see some serious 10 figure investment in the parks there will be long term investment in everything BUT the parks.

Remember them? The theme parks?

Question: If WDI charged stuff at reasonable rates would Burbank decide to splash more cash or is it a chicken and the egg. Burbank wants bang for buck, WDI has to prove profitable and as WDI has too many bodies doing nothing they have to charge over the odds for a simple extra spinner.

Is that the situation? Bruce Vaughn and the gang don't want to fix it so you have to wonder who really does?

 

[Goofyernmost]

The Giant Ball Place used to be pretty cool. Is it still around?

You must mean "Planet Hollywood", yup still there!

 

[rael ramone]

Yes, Disney is going back to the WL.

No, they won't be building any (OK, not entirely true) new villas. What they will be doing is converting a large number of rooms in the main building from hotel to DVC. In addition, much infrastructure work is planned from a total redo of Artist Point, to expanding the pool deck to adding a new concierge lounge (actually multiples, one exclusive for DVC).

As both myself and @ParentsOf4 have articulated, WDW's current business model is fundamentally flawed and broken. And those geniuses who run Disney have come to the same conclusion. They just don't get why. They think DVC is the Golden Goose and they only care about short-term gains. It's not that the WL couldn't fill 98% of its rooms most of the year IF they lowered prices. It's that WDW's model doesn't allow for $150 a night rooms beyond CM discounts.

Take a look at this summer. Do you have any clue how pathetic WDW load levels are? The entire main building at the Grand Flo is empty as rooms are being redone to look like Vegas rooms from 2010. The Poly has multiple buildings that are empty. The BW has many rooms out of service for hard good rehabs. And guess what?

They still are lucky to have resorts that are 65-75% full (not total occupancy, available occupancy which is a huge difference).

This is definitely big news, and not of the 'good' variety.

They see the resort is broken, and they see the fix is to double down on what broke it.

They see the way to increase value to their overpriced deluxe rooms to the guests isn't to make the resorts better, it's to reduce 'cash room' capacity. Don't spend $500 on a room because it's worth $500. Spend $500 because someone else will get that room and you'll be stuck in the nonMAGICAL Swan, Dolphin, or Bonnet Creek resorts...

While UNI offers a carrot, TDO threatens with a stick. While UNI spends cap-ex to add to the resort, TDO spends to take stuff away. How 'Walt' like of them...

They want a Potter Swatter? Bring back The Vacation Kingdom. While the foundation of that is better cleanliness & maintenance resortwide and a workforce that recieves First World Wages - the Main Floor of that is the resorts:

The resorts need to do their own heavy lifting. A $500 room should attract a guest by the offerings of that specific resort. How many resorts on property are worth a long weekend at rack rates - and you do nothing but eat at that hotels restaurants, shop at its stores, and recieve all of your recreation within the grounds of that specific resort? Does the thought of spending a day at the resort feel like your wasting a day? Or is it an essential part of your vacation? Shouldn't a $500 (yes, I know rack for most are much, much more) room be enjoyable to spend non-sleeping time in? Shouldn't it be in a resort with pleasant common areas that tie in the theme? Have a nice sit down restaurant where you can walk-in to a good meal for lunch that starts with fresh bread? Sufficient pool areas for all guests? Fitness facilities on property? (CBR & POR not having a fitness center is comical. The Poly not having it's own is criminal).

Next floor up is the other auxiliary options available over the entire WDW resort. Advertise better what these are, and make more of them.

But instead it's all parksparksparksparksparksparksparks in the ads. And if people are conditioned to be all parks, all the time - then when they finish TDO's parks they want to do other parks - and then they wonder why am I spending $500 plus on these rooms when I can spend much less on rooms that are closer to the other parks?

Why not instead have the parks be just a part of a larger vacation? Slow the guests pace down. Entertain them in other ways. Maybe the Potter Swatter is a round of golf? Or an afternoon in the GF's lobby listening to the jazz ensemble? Or ride a horse? Or maybe just lay in a hammock?

And to put it over the top? Length of stay passes to all parks complimentary (imagine a Vegas hotel charging a $100 cover charge to use the slots?). A handful of paper fastpasses (based on type of hotel & length of stay) good anytime for any attraction w/o any pre-planning for each hotel guest. A policy of never automatically turning away a resort guest from a sit-down walk-in (sit em right away if tables are empty - let them take a no show's table if every table is genuinely booked - and yes staff the eateries accordingly).

If you make it more of a vacation (more restful & relaxing), perhaps the guest will get into a pace, and won't want to disturb that pace by leaving the property...

 

[Jeffxz]

Here is how I see it with my rose colored glasses. Disney Springs will move DVC memberships at SSR. Pandora and other adds coming to DAK will move DVC memberships at the AKL. Proving that adding content to the resorts has wide-ranging economic benefits. The ultimate win-win. I just have more faith in people than many here. I just don't think there is some grand conspiritorial money grab going on. If there was there would not be construction going on every where you look. OBJ even had an article documenting all the progress.

That's a nice theory, but Disney is no longer actively marketing SSR or AKV*. Seems like a lot of work to put into properties that you are not actively pushing for people to buy.

*You can still buy points for these resorts from Disney, they just aren't actively pushing guests to buy them. They are pushing for GFV.

 

[jt04]

Jt, even you can't gloss over this huge mess.

A motion cinema and a boat ride (if we're lucky) and a rebuilt mall won't help much.

Until WDIs outrageous overcharging is reigned in and we see some serious 10 figure investment in the parks there will be long term investment in everything BUT the parks.

Remember them? The theme parks?

Sorry 'M', I appreciate the contributions you make here and you are probably the most important contribtor but using such hyperbole about Pandora and Disney Springs shows that this conversation on this subject here is not quite fair and balanced. And just like with Disney Springs, the optimists here will have their trust rewarded.

 

[seascape]

Actually, that is the beauty of doing a DVC2 at Beach Club Resort...they could simply "add" the existing BCV1 inventory to the DVC2 and let it all end at the same time! This actually solves a problem for DVD about not needing to "extend" BCV...and that would be true for BWV as well...

They can't just extend the DVC dates. The contracts have an ending date and Disney can't just make someone responsible for a bill because they want to. There would probably be an extension offered but that would cost extra. On the other hand it would probably be worth it. If they offered an extension on the Boardwalk I would buy it at the rigth price. I have 100 points there and would pay up to $35.00 a point for an extension from 2042 to 2064. I don't expect Disney to offer it that low though and I don't think I would pay any more than that because I will be over 80 in 2042 and I still will have point at SSR and GF.

 

[SirLink]

I meant "Beauty" from the Disney/DVC/DVD perspective....

The only people it actually benefits are the executives of WDW Resort, it hurts the company because you still have rooms not being able to be sold and creating more rooms for people who would potentially spend $5000 for a weeks stay at deluxe spending more up front on DVC but long term pays Disney less. AKA the "Hatred for the long term"

I would wager Disney has about 5000 rooms too many on property.

 

[marni1971]

Sorry 'M', I appreciate the contributions you make here and you are probably the most important contribtor but using such hyperbole about Pandora and Disney Springs shows that this conversation on this subject here is not quite fair and balanced. And just like with Disney Springs, the optimists here will have their trust rewarded.

Hyperbole? Nah.

Balanced and informed observation ? Maybe.

Though please do correct me.

 

[jt04]

That's a nice theory, but Disney is no longer actively marketing SSR or AKV*. Seems like a lot of work to put into properties that you are not actively pushing for people to buy.

*You can still buy points for these resorts from Disney, they just aren't actively pushing guests to buy them. They are pushing for GFV.

I am sure they are pushing the higher priced units most heavily. But there is room at both AKL and SSR for expansion I think. So, wouldn't be suprised to see that some day. Everything goes in cycles. Including expanding theme parks.

 

[xdan0920]

Yeah, that's the place with the booze and the countries. You can travel the world and get sloshed at the same time! So amazing

I especially like all the outdoor toilets they themed to look like shrubberies! So fun.

 

[Sneezy62]

Points inflation? Add 200 rooms to WL at double the points per night and then readjust the points chart a year or two down the road? Possible?

 

[George]

I especially like all the out door toilets they themed to look like shrubberies! So fun.

Hooray! I love this too. And the pass out areas themed like asphalt underneath Off Kilter viewing benches!

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I especially like all the out door toilets they themed to look like shrubberies! So fun.

Maybe if people had more respect for the park and didn't treat the festivals like a frat party, things would be different. But who am I kidding - everyone loves booze (especially Epcot's management)!