The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

stlphil

Well-Known Member
I don't know if they lack confidence... But more about risk adversion and seeing yourself as an aggregator vs a producer. (IMHO) You can scale faster and cheaper as an aggregator of other efforts...

Twdc is a conglomerate now... And that mindshare eventually works it's way down into the mindset of the subsidiaries too
I know it's just semantics, but in my mind a lack of confidence and overarching risk aversion are just two sides of the same thing.

Otherwise agree completely, especially the trickle down of the corporate culture.
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
If all the DVC profits go back into DVC, what business/shareholder value does Disney get from DVC?

Extremely short term in the form of the initial buy-in.
Theoretical long term that the person will continue to go to WDW completely and totally regardless of upkeep or lack of and buy whatever and eat whatever TDO offers...
 

PrincessNelly_NJ

Well-Known Member
I've been very anti-CBR for a while because of their cheap looking guest rooms and double beds. These new rooms look great. A total turnaround. I might actually have to start considering to stay here again. I hope the sliding doors get implemented in all the mods. The curtains in PO rooms just don't look as good.
Im with you. I'd stay value before staying at CBR but now I'm pretty set on CBR for my next trip in 2015 lol.
The curtains dont bother me but I'm sure my feelings on that will change when I start going with my children.
I could see POR getting some nice all white or plantation shutters style sliding doors... would look really nice.
Plus it is great that CBR will accommodate families of 5.
 

mgpan

Well-Known Member
This really is good news (I know, I know) for me. Because I've already decided that the next WDW vacation I take will include renting someones points, and further cuts down on how much I'm giving Disney and also gives me an awesome rate versus Disney rack rates or having to downgrade to a 'cheaper' hotel. That is, if I don't decide on offsite or at Universal, which is also being considered.

I loved Royal Pacific and also Dolphin, and I'd try renting points. However, just like those reserve months in advance with no refunds hotel deals, I don't want to lock myself into an investment to definitely travel months in advance and risk losing $$$.
 

wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to reenforce that DVC at Caribbean Beach Resort's Trinidad South is definitely being considered. Union negotiations are occurring right now and the one that represents the housekeepers has Trinidad South on their agenda. If CBR goes forward with conversions, I'd expect Port Orleans would be the next choice.
I wouldn't be shocked if happens to Port Orleans because it now looks like Disney has been setting the French Quarter to decrease attendance on purpose despite the redoing of the rooms a couple years ago.

I am saying that because of how Disney has been treating the French Quarter for the last couple years like the French Quarter hasn't been offered the free dining for people that live in the United States, and not being mentioned on Walt Disney World - Lodging Walt Disney World Resort Hotels episode on Destination America despite Port Orleans Riverside being mentioned. I also know the Port Orleans French Quarter hasn't hasn't been receiving discounts for the last couple years at least either.

Since Disney has manipulate survey's in the past like the Main Street Electrical Parade and left Spectro Magic to rot, who says Disney isn't capable of manipulating thing outside of survey's.
 
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henrycpa91

New Member
New member here guys. and yes, a DVC owner....not sure if I am disgruntled but certainly do not have blinders.

A couple of thoughts....

As we have learned with the FP+ system, Disney does not really factor the DVC owner into its plans. If they did they would not have went to this new system that really does not work for those of us that understood the old system and how to maximize us.

There simply are not enough DVC owners to influence the thinking of operations...They have to think about the one or two time visitors and how to maximize the dollars off of them. And the foreign visitor increase is right on.

I can see DVC expansion into or taking over existing resorts as good and bad. I like the idea of BWV becomming all DVC. It is most similar to OKW and makes a lot of sense. I can see a similar argument for the GF...long story short, once inventory sells, DVD has its profit and generally the room will be filled either by an owner or a renter. That is butts in the beds. From Disney's perspective that is a higher occupancy rate than they are getting now.

As a DVC owner I think this could lower annual MF. Simply put, if you look at the financials each year it appears the MF costs are being applied to DVC at a higher disproportionate rate than it should. But, the rental market will stagnate with all the new inventory. And do not forget..if not rented one month out, Disney is allowed to rent those rooms....

No and nope. They don't exist in large enough numbers and Disney doesn't care much either. As they keep increasing DVC there could be a tipping point where DVC members make up a large enough group to get noticed. DVC still only makes up about 10 to 15% of hotel rooms on property and at least half of the park visitors don't stay on site (maybe more than half) so 5% to 10% of total visitors max. If they were all unhappy (which they aren't) it could maybe be a big enough number to start a movement, but the guest base of WDW is so varied and would be really hard to organize. Guests from all over the U.S., Brazilians, British and other Europeans including lots of one time or infrequent visitors. It's not like DL with its large base of AP holders who could be somewhat rallied by a small group into action.
 

mgpan

Well-Known Member
What's going on in this picture? Did the guy rip the door off the wall or did it fall off? Hope no one was under there.

Ok... that shut me up. Definitely much better. I might actually stay there next year after seeing these!



photo7_zps42171f7d.jpg
 

Ray B

Member
I am an example of how DVC cannibalizes the Deluxe Resorts. I normally refuse to stay on property due to the ridiculous rates when I have to travel which is during school breaks. My daughter is having a special birthday next year so I decided to add a few days onto my off property timeshare stay as a surprise. My DW will only stay in a deluxe resort so I started to price them out. Then I realized I could just rent DVC points. I can stay in a studio at the Beach Club for half the rate of staying in a BC room. Or I can stay in a 1 bedroom with a kitchen for around the same rate as a mere room at the resort itself. Just doesn't make sense to me to pay exorbitant rates when I can just rent points.
 

stlphil

Well-Known Member
I disagree. We've seen that they still "got it". They can still innovate. Cars Land and Disney Sea are evidence of that.

The problem is that at WDW they don't feel that they NEED to. And I would say proof of that is knowing that down the street UNI is doing amazing things... All things that WDW leadership had details of years ago... And completely didn't react.

They just didn't NEED to. And they knew it.
I never said they can't still innovate, or even that I "think" they still can't innovate. What matters is what they think.

Disney Sea was and is a different "they", and it was built well over a decade ago so is hardly relevant.

Even Cars Land was green lighted a fairly long time ago, and by all accounts was an outlier because it wouldn't have been so great without having a champion in someone who did "get it". But even since then, senior roles have changed and their thinking has evolved/devolved.

All through their history, even just the history of WDW, the TWDC were confident and motivated to do stuff they didn't NEED to, and got rewarded handsomely for it. I dare say it is these things that they didn't NEED to do that are the exact reasons that we all are passionate enough about the place to spend any time at all on a forum like this.

Given their history, why doesn't that happen much today? I still think a significant, though maybe not the biggest, part of it is a lack of confidence (or okay being risk averse). Since I'm speculating, perhaps this could be because theme parks are way out of the comfort zone for the top executives, so they resort to relying on the more straightforward finances that they are more comfortable with. Or put more simply, they aren't Creatives.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
This thread hasn't even been up for 24 hours and it's already at 17 pages
And it really hasn't gone off topic, not too much anyway.

Now, on topic: I'd love to read more about what Disney knew and when they knew it about Diagon Alley, and what management meetings were like discussing the new Universal area. Can't wait for more info on that!
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
I never said they can't still innovate, or even that I "think" they still can't innovate. What matters is what they think.

Disney Sea was and is a different "they", and it was built well over a decade ago so is hardly relevant.

Even Cars Land was green lighted a fairly long time ago, and by all accounts was an outlier because it wouldn't have been so great without having a champion in someone who did "get it". But even since then, senior roles have changed and their thinking has evolved/devolved.

All through their history, even just the history of WDW, the TWDC were confident and motivated to do stuff they didn't NEED to, and got rewarded handsomely for it. I dare say it is these things that they didn't NEED to do that are the exact reasons that we all are passionate enough about the place to spend any time at all on a forum like this.

Given their history, why doesn't that happen much today? I still think a significant, though maybe not the biggest, part of it is a lack of confidence (or okay being risk averse). Since I'm speculating, perhaps this could be because theme parks are way out of the comfort zone for the top executives, so they resort to relying on the more straightforward finances that they are more comfortable with. Or put more simply, they aren't Creatives.

My point was that the Creatives can still innovate and create. It's all the external factors beyond them that's the problem.

I read your comment to mean that they just didn't have the ability anymore. It's there, it's just bottled up.
 

GrammieBee

Well-Known Member
Ah, doom, gloom and misery. The posts, which are mostly quite intellegent, are inclined to make me wonder why we plan to go back to Disney at all. Problems with maintainance, poor company leadership, increasing and/or outrageous costs, decaying infrastructure, lack of innovention, too many or not enough DVC units, empty hotel rooms, etc.,etc.,etc. My goodness, I could just cry.

Unfortunately, being a long time WDW visitor, I have to agree that many of the observations are quite true.

Incidentally, teepees can also be called wigwams. They were used by the plains Indians because they were relatively easy to set up and break down for traveling. They would look pretty stupid over the water.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
This thread hasn't even been up for 24 hours and it's already at 17 pages

It's such a double edged sword. I start out trying to stay up with these threads, but life gets in the way, and I can't sit and read the 40 pages I've gotten behind on... And I hate jumping in the middle of things without reading all the background.

Which is a shame because I enjoy conversing with @WDW1974 (although the guy could pick up a drink tab next time around!). But he's turned into friggin' E.F. Hutton. So once these threads get out of control I usually just stand at the back of the room and watch the crowd clamor for his autograph and not get involved. ;):hilarious:
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Exacty. Long term capital investment :greedy: that will fuel new content for the resort (see Pandora and Disney Springs) and that 5th gate. Thanks for bringing a bit of reasoned sobriety to this thread. :happy:
Jt, even you can't gloss over this huge mess.

A motion cinema and a boat ride (if we're lucky) and a rebuilt mall won't help much.

Until WDIs outrageous overcharging is reigned in and we see some serious 10 figure investment in the parks there will be long term investment in everything BUT the parks.

Remember them? The theme parks?
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
lol, i think he may have been working on the remodel.
Those divider doors are on a track, they lift off pretty easily. I imagine he moved it to get a better shot through the doorway possibly. We definitely were not in a refurbed room in March.

The coronado refurb looked great though. Having said that, I still think even with a refurb, CBR is still the worst moderate.
 

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