I guess part of the reason why these were built is to help suppress the non resort guests using the beach as a viewing spot for the MK fireworks displays.
and inside the Poly lobby right now is like walking through a maze...
Sorry to reply to your post over here but I'm trying to respect the topic of the other thread ("FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania").
@WDW1974 's original post on this thread ("The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)") notes that Disney's plans are to continue the trend in recent years of converting unused hotel rooms into DVC. Disney is not building DVC so much as converting excess hotel inventory into timeshares.
Early in its history, DVC's goal was to steal business away from offsite timeshares. DVC's first two resorts, Old Key West (OKW) and Boardwalk Villas (BWV), were designed to appeal to those already looking to buy timeshares and who were not spending their lodging dollars at WDW. Both resorts opened with DVC rooms. Both resorts were attempts to capture vacation dollars Disney was losing to offsite rivals.
DVC began to cannibalize its own Deluxe Resort business with the opening of the Villas at Wilderness Lodge (VWL) in 2000. This expansion added timeshare rooms to an existing hotel. The market for those rooms overlapped the market for Deluxe Resort rooms. However, the numbers were small (136 rooms) so its effect was negligible.
The problem slightly worsened with the opening of Beach Club Villas (BCV) in 2002. The Yacht & Beach Club (Y&BC) was (and still is) a popular resort. Expanding DVC there began to pull guests away from other Deluxe Resorts. Again though, the numbers were small (208 rooms).
DVC jumped the shark with the rapid expansion of Saratoga Springs Resort (SSR) in 2004, Animal Kingdom Villas (AKV) in 2007, and Bay Lake Towers (BLT) in 2009. Combined, these 3 resorts more than doubled the number DVC rooms. Rather than remaining exclusive (in 2003, DVC represented only 5% of total WDW room inventory), DVC was turned into timeshares for the masses.
With the rapid expansion of these 3 resorts, DVC kiosks began to pop up everywhere, targeting all sorts of guests, often those already spending big bucks to stay onsite. DVC began to compete directly with WDW's hotels.
It was after the opening of AKV that WDW's hotel occupancy began to decline, a decline that continued as Disney raised hotel rack rates in an effort to justify the 'cost savings' of DVC. (The same way that we've seen the price of food at WDW increase in order to justify the price of the Disney Dining Plan.)
As a result of these higher prices and expanded DVC inventory, WDW no longer is able to fill its hotel rooms. As recently as 2008, WDW's hotel occupancy was at 90%. Today, WDW has over 5000 empty hotel rooms most nights.
WDW is seeing the adverse effect of DVC, both in terms of lower occupancy rates at the Deluxe Resorts as well as in the need to offer 20-30% discounts for the majority of the year. (It wasn't that long ago that WDW never offered discounts.)
Going forward, the damage is done. WDW is losing hotel revenue because of DVC.
Converting mostly empty hotel rooms to DVC is a way to recapture some of that lost revenue. Lowering hotel inventory through conversion allows Disney to continue to charge high prices for its remaining inventory.
Unfortunately, Disney's plan signals an unwillingness to acknowledge that its hotel prices have reached ridiculous levels.
Rather than admit that WDW's hotels are grossly overpriced for what they are, Disney instead is looking to convert those rooms into timeshares.
It's sad to see a company built on growth through innovation and investment instead concentrate on petty-minded optimization.
Over 21 years as CEO, Michael Eisner grew the Parks & Resorts (P&R) business by an average of almost 11% annually. Under Iger, that growth has slowed to under 6%.
Under Iger, the focus has shifted from growth to squeezing pennies out of P&R 'guests'.
I think the fact that you are seeing DVC rooms available through RCI is more a symptom of owners trading out of WDW rather than Disney playing with numbers. As more owners trade their points in through RCI more will be available for non-DVC owners to trade into WDW. It wasn't too long ago that trading into a DVC room via RCI was really hard to do. Availability was always seriously limited.Thanks @tirian for confirming the shell games with rooms to boost occupancy numbers, most real hotel companies prefer to have filled rooms. But Disney wants to create the illusion that the hotels are going gangbusters when it reality they are not I seem to recall that @WDW1974 has noted internal occupancy in the 50's for at least one of the deluxe hotels
But with DVC units in the 90s it does tend to skew the average higher. But short term DVC availability bas fallen drastically which makes me wonder whether Disney is playing the out of service game with DVC as well because the DVC docs only guarantee that you will have points placed in your account. NOT that accommodations will be available to reserve at any point in time.
Interestingly enough when DVC is 'sold out' rooms are frequently available for 'trade' with the $ 95 booking fee etc.
I'm just beyond disgusted these days.
I think the fact that you are seeing DVC rooms available through RCI is more a symptom of owners trading out of WDW rather than Disney playing with numbers. As more owners trade their points in through RCI more will be available for non-DVC owners to trade into WDW. It wasn't too long ago that trading into a DVC room via RCI was really hard to do. Availability was always seriously limited.
Its terrible looking right now. I couldn't even contemplate staying there, even at a deep discount. You're literally paying for the chance to stay in the middle of a construction site.
Bundle all aspects of a WDW vacation and then offer genuine savings on that bundle.I was just wondering, beyond how you have charted and graphed WDWs history in terms of CAPEX, P&R spend, etc., what other options do you believe that WDW has to deal with the high room prices and the 80% room occupancy rate aside from DVC conversion (and obviously building more rides)?
I don't have any real renderings of the area. Just some plans showing the new building and area layout.Lee!! Shut-the-front-door!
Do you have any... ANY... other renderings for the East Pool reconstruction?! I'm assuming this is what Steve recently hinted at for the reconstruction of the Tangaroa Terrace... seems to big for the Nanea Volcano main pool area. Steve's holding out on me... says he has [seen] the renderings for both pools, but can't share... and I may be developing a slight eye twitch while waiting!
Bundle all aspects of a WDW vacation and then offer genuine savings on that bundle.
Come up with a new pricing strategy that encourages longer onsite stays and also encourages spending all vacation dollars at WDW. One that offers savings for longer stays at Disney's most expensive hotels.
Using a fictional example:
Stay at a Walt Disney World resort and receive up to a 40% discount on all ticket, food, and merchandise purchases for your length of stay.*Someone close to the numbers needs to come up with the right combination. For example, a 10% discount for a Value Resort 4-night stay up to a 40% discount for a Deluxe Resort 7-night stay.
* Some restrictions may apply.
The idea is to minimize how much guests spend prior to arrival (i.e. only the room needs to be prepaid) but encourage spending after arrival. Let them buy tickets, Disney Dining Plan, etc. after they check-in, using their discount to do so. (Of course, they are free to purchase these using their discounts before arrival, if they want to.)
Paying for tickets and the Disney Dining Plan before arrival just makes WDW seem so much more expensive.
People view the initial purchase price as a barrier. By lowering that barrier, they are more likely to participate. Once they are onsite, the discounts encourage additional onsite spending while discouraging spending elsewhere.
The key is to offer real discounts.
If Disney raises hamburger prices to $15 and then offers a 33% discount, it’s still a $10 burger. Instead, list that burger for $10 and offer those Deluxe Resorts guests a chance to purchase that burger for $6 if they stay 7 nights. Disney is making a killing at the hotel and there's still profit at $6 for a Quick Service burger.
Even if guests decide to spend a day offsite, Disney still collects their high-margin hotel money. In fact, those guests miss out by spending money elsewhere:
“I can have dinner at WDW and get a 40% discount or I can pay full price at Universal. What do I do?”
Even if they spend the day at Universal, they are more likely to eat breakfast or dinner at WDW. That 40% discount makes WDW prices seem so much reasonable.
And a 40% discount on merchandise makes them want to stock up before they go home!
Use pricing and discounts to encourage spending at WDW, while simultaneously discouraging spending elsewhere.
It’s money in the bank.
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