The Spirit Takes the Fifth ...

[GoofGoof]

That is what I said. The other Goof is saying that DLR should help defray the cost that has already been accounted for. My point is that they would have to put money forth to pay for new assets but not for the development already paid for. Yet he liked your post.

Goofy fans stick together

If TWDC was planning on rolling this out to 3 parks instead of 1 and if for example $600M of the initial $1B cost was R&D and design that could be used at all 3 parks then at an economic level each park could carry $200M of the burden. In the case of WDW it would reduce the total spend from $1B to $600M. Let's say roll-out and infrastructure at DLR and DLP costs half as much as WDW since they are much smaller parks so each park carries an all-in cost of $400M. In terms of cash flow and accounting expense for the P&R segment it doesn't matter, but if you are getting this approved by the BOD it may make it an easier sell to say we plan to roll out in 3 parks and the total cost would be $1.4B then 1 park for $1B.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I've noticed reduced bus service to MK. They likely want to slow the waves of people and encourage other parks.

That's not intentional. That's buses stuck in traffic and other factors delaying them

 

[PhotoDave219]

Wi


Wow. Guess the MB is working as I expected driving customer (dis)satisfaction

That was Sunday. We have no rational explanation for it.

Today was the polar opposite of that. 8 hours apart or less and vastly different crowds.

 

[PeterAlt]

TDO is dumber than what everyone is making them out to be. Okay, that's not exactly fair. They're smart in a malicious sort of way, caring more about the near term dollar - a line item on a spreadsheet - than long-term customer satisfaction. Add on top of that, they care more about their attractions being open - regardless of condition they may be in (or whether or not they've been updated with fresh new special effects or show pieces) so that guests visiting in the always existing immediate future will be able to ride any of the current repertoire of attractions versus having to close something for a few months to fix, refresh, update, and upgrade it so that future guests would be able to enjoy it and insure its longevity.

WDW has nothing new not because that is the way its parent company in Burbank (Walt Disney Enterprises) wants it, but because that's how TDO wants it. It would have been a lot worse, if WDE didn't overrule some of their decisions and "force" things on them.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That is what I said. The other Goof is saying that DLR should help defray the cost that has already been accounted for. My point is that they would have to put money forth to pay for new assets but not for the development already paid for. Yet he liked your post.

If I am the other Goof (and I think I am) I never said that I think they should what I said is that by logic they already, being part of TDC, are contributing to the cost, BECAUSE, they have always intended to put it in the other properties when tested and proven. My point is that WDW is not now and never has been the sole contributor to this project. It is a separate budget item in the control of accounting and research and development. Perhaps with portions coming from Parks and Resorts because if it works they will indeed benefit. Is the money coming from parks existing operating budgets? Could be, but it also could be coming from profits company wide.

When it is said that "The development costs hit the P&R segment", that easily means ALL P&R segments world wide not just WDW.

 

[flynnibus]

you guys are arguing details where they don't matter.

You all are saying the same thing but fixating on minutia. There is an advantage to getting multiple uses out of a single development.. even if additional deployment still costs additional to roll out. It's about greater gain out of an investment. Just like deploying a ride system multiple times... the subsequent installations were not built into the cost of the initial development, but by doing so you've increased the return on your initial investment by leveraging it multiple times. The fact the bill for installation #3 wasn't included in the initial bill means nothing. But when you pitched the original idea.. and say 'this investment can be reused multiple times' - then it effectively spreads the costs of the development over many uses. On paper you may still include it only in one P&L silo...but from a BUSINESS standpoint the next level up can accept the spend knowing the value will be greater.

NextGen has always been pushed as something that can be applied beyond WDW - but WDW has always been the prototype deployment followed by DLR. DLR had been aligning themselves for adoption, but has since idled. Presumably due to the fumbled rollout... if that is because someone retreated, or others simply said 'lets focus..' - dunno.

 

[71jason]

That was Sunday. We have no rational explanation for it.

Sunday is a travel day. Always the case. Why Mondays are always bad at MK, even in the off-season.

FWIW, at around 1:15 a.m. last night, Grand and Poly lots were at best 2/3 full. Dozens of empty spots in each. I still understand why they did a hard close on parking, but I find it hard to believe those resorts were full last night.

 

[ABQ]

Sunday is a travel day. Always the case. Why Mondays are always bad at MK, even in the off-season.

FWIW, at around 1:15 a.m. last night, Grand and Poly lots were at best 2/3 full. Dozens of empty spots in each. I still understand why they did a hard close on parking, but I find it hard to believe those resorts were full last night.

Is it possible 1/3 of the spots are guests without cars? Magical Express is constantly dropping people off without cars.

 

[71jason]

Is it possible 1/3 of the spots are guests without cars? Magical Express is constantly dropping people off without cars.

Seen the lots when GF was at 98%--looked full.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sunday is a travel day. Always the case. Why Mondays are always bad at MK, even in the off-season.

FWIW, at around 1:15 a.m. last night, Grand and Poly lots were at best 2/3 full. Dozens of empty spots in each. I still understand why they did a hard close on parking, but I find it hard to believe those resorts were full last night.

I'm not a FL resident so I don't know if this could be part of the cause, but I've been reading on these boards that Disney seems to be cutting back on discounts for FL locals. It could be that some FL residents who aren't necessarily Orlando locals but maybe a few hours or more away may have bought APs and stayed a night or 2 in the past during the holidays but with increased AP costs and cutbacks on discounts they skipped it this year and/or visited the Boy Wizard up the street. I have no clue if there were ever discounted rooms available for these busy weeks, but the AP cost (especially for kids) went up dramatically. Less AP holders could mean less local visitors with cars and lower occupancy at the hotels.

 

[Goofyernmost]

you guys are arguing details where they don't matter.

You all are saying the same thing but fixating on minutia. There is an advantage to getting multiple uses out of a single development.. even if additional deployment still costs additional to roll out. It's about greater gain out of an investment. Just like deploying a ride system multiple times... the subsequent installations were not built into the cost of the initial development, but by doing so you've increased the return on your initial investment by leveraging it multiple times. The fact the bill for installation #3 wasn't included in the initial bill means nothing. But when you pitched the original idea.. and say 'this investment can be reused multiple times' - then it effectively spreads the costs of the development over many uses. On paper you may still include it only in one P&L silo...but from a BUSINESS standpoint the next level up can accept the spend knowing the value will be greater.

NextGen has always been pushed as something that can be applied beyond WDW - but WDW has always been the prototype deployment followed by DLR. DLR had been aligning themselves for adoption, but has since idled. Presumably due to the fumbled rollout... if that is because someone retreated, or others simply said 'lets focus..' - dunno.

Geez, Mr. Flynnibus... as if you have never gone on and on about something that you believed in without regard to whether or not it was relevant to anyone other then yourself. Strikes me as a glass house or stone casting moment there. However, that said... thanks for supporting my argument. In the meantime, I continue my stand on the idea that once debugged, it will be everywhere. If it isn't it is still going to "cost", in someway, all the other branches of TDC.

 

[Darth Sidious]

What used to be in the "Hot Set" next to what is now Midway Mania at DHS? Also, what is the condition of that current location?

 

[PeterAlt]

you guys are arguing details where they don't matter.

You all are saying the same thing but fixating on minutia. There is an advantage to getting multiple uses out of a single development.. even if additional deployment still costs additional to roll out. It's about greater gain out of an investment. Just like deploying a ride system multiple times... the subsequent installations were not built into the cost of the initial development, but by doing so you've increased the return on your initial investment by leveraging it multiple times. The fact the bill for installation #3 wasn't included in the initial bill means nothing. But when you pitched the original idea.. and say 'this investment can be reused multiple times' - then it effectively spreads the costs of the development over many uses. On paper you may still include it only in one P&L silo...but from a BUSINESS standpoint the next level up can accept the spend knowing the value will be greater.

NextGen has always been pushed as something that can be applied beyond WDW - but WDW has always been the prototype deployment followed by DLR. DLR had been aligning themselves for adoption, but has since idled. Presumably due to the fumbled rollout... if that is because someone retreated, or others simply said 'lets focus..' - dunno.

Omg... Time out! ...For a minute! Stop everything and let's reflect for a moment... How many pages is this thread? How many sequels to the original thread? How many encyclopedias have we written? In such a short time? What have we discussed? It is Disney related - most of it - but it's on a level of intellectual discussion you're not going to find on a Universal fan message board! The discussions going on over there, sound pretty much like this:

"I'm going to ride the Simpsons!"
"Yeah, yeah, Simpsons are cool!"
"Then, I'm going on Harry Potter!"
"Me, too! Wizards are cool!"

You get the idea. We're on a whole other level. You will never find this deep of a discussion on a Universal Studios theme park bulletin board system! This is not a bad thing, but why has this company attracted such an ecosystem for idealism, community, and diversity that's rare when it comes to other groups of interest.

 

[lazyboy97o]

In terms of other Resorts, I do think it is interesting that Disney was unable to convince either the Oriental Land Company or the Government of Hong Kong that MyMagic+ is something they should invest in now. Why have reports been that Disney's three theme park partners are suspicious of the benefits? Is it merely a case of cultural differences or are there also business concerns?

 

[Darth Sidious]

In terms of other Resorts, I do think it is interesting that Disney was unable to convince either the Oriental Land Company or the Government of Hong Kong that MyMagic+ is something they should invest in now. Why have reports been that Disney's three theme park partners are suspicious of the benefits? Is it merely a case of cultural differences or are there also business concerns?

Probably both, plus why pay when Disney is going to do it anyway and you can sit back and watch the test.

 

[PeterAlt]

Carrie Fisher is preparing for her role as Princess (Queen?) Leah (who will probably be a mother to adolescent Jedi brats) loosing weight and practicing her Jedi Death Grip on none other than Captain William Shatner James Tiberius Kirk (don't worry, Bill can handle it - he's gotten his share of Volcan Death Grips over the years).

 

[nytimez]

...never mind...

 

[PeterAlt]

Simple...Taxes! Plus each entity sharing the cost, makes the expense much smaller for each unit then the burden falling on just one and creating a focal point. That part doesn't really affect taxes for the over all company if WDW has to absorb it, but as far as investors are concerned, by spreading it out, all divisions of TDC would show, at least a modest profit thus sidestepping panic.

Also one has to stop thinking that this is a WDW financial boondoggle. If anything this is a Disney Company boondoggle. Technology is transferable and they would not ever spend over a billion dollars just for WDW. As I said before, WDW is the test location, but it is hardly the only place it will end up.

This is very similar to what happened in the early 80's when the cost of building and developing EC was totally out of control (costing more than 3 times what the executives promised it would cost). There's one MAJOR difference, though - with EC, there's a lot to show for much of it! In twenty years from now, what will they have to show for the billions being spent now? A boarded up warehouse filled with antique server equipment that went obsolete only a couple of years after NextGen is fully deployed? Twenty years from now, any hardware (or software) that's a tangible asset ("something to show for") will have been retired years and years ago and will be in a landfill somewhere.

Disney should not have pursued such an IT mega project. Last I checked, Disney was an entertainment company, not a IT company. If they really wanted to pursue this and wanted to do it right, it should never have been an in-house thing. They should have partnered with companies that specialize in IT - big companies like Apple, Microsoft, or Google. Companies like that don't mind spending money on projects like that because that's what they do. That's not what Disney does, not Disney's business. In house development of a project of this type is bad for two reasons: (1) Disney, a well-tuned machine that specializing in the entertainment business, is trying to do something it doesn't specialize in doing; and (2) it's distracting them from focusing on their core business and pulling human and financial resources away from the core business focus.

I once heard Steve Jobs explain why Apple chose to work with third party factories for assembly of their products. He said, manufacturing isn't something Apple specializes in; Apple specialized in software and hardware design. He said, let the companies who are in the business of manufacturing manufacture Apple's products. That's what they do. That's what they are good at. That's what their specialty is. Let them worry about tweaking it. He said, if Apple had to worry about manufacturing, they would have to also pay attention to efficiency of the process and finding new ways to make it yet even more efficient. He said, Apple can do that (invent the most efficient manufacturing facility), but Apple would be manufacturing company and not be inventing new computers or iPhones. Once you start on that path, he said, all that energy, time, and resources loose focus away from core business. The cost to the company for the long term is quality lost and slippage in speciality on products and services the company has a reputation for.

 

[Longhairbear]

As a quick aside, we just watched Frozen on a DVD screener that we got because of my husband's union affiliation. We also got a DVD of Saving Mr. Banks. We really like both, and can see why World Of Color added Frozen at Disney California Adventure. We didn't get to see it on our last trip, but hear it was well received.
Disney IP should be used to more than meet and greets, and more to full blown attractions. Frozen is like Monsters Inc., with obvious attractions that should be built! Don't get me started with lost opportunities such as "In Search Of The Castaways".

 

[wdwmagic]

This is very similar to what happened in the early 80's when the cost of building and developing EC was totally out of control (costing more than 3 times what the executives promised it would cost). There's one MAJOR difference, though - with EC, there's a lot to show for much of it! In twenty years from now, what will they have to show for the billions being spent now? A boarded up warehouse filled with antique server equipment that went obsolete only a couple of years after NextGen is fully deployed? Twenty years from now, any hardware (or software) that's a tangible asset ("something to show for") will have been retired years and years ago and will be in a landfill somewhere.

Disney should not have pursued such an IT mega project. Last I checked, Disney was an entertainment company, not a IT company. If they really wanted to pursue this and wanted to do it right, it should never have been an in-house thing. They should have partnered with companies that specialize in IT - big companies like Apple, Microsoft, or Google. Companies like that don't mind spending money on projects like that because that's what they do.
That's not what Disney does, not Disney's business. In house development of a project of this type is bad for two reasons: (1) Disney, a well-tuned machine that specializing in the entertainment business, is trying to do something it doesn't specialize in doing; and (2) it's distracting them from focusing on their core business and pulling human and financial resources away from the core business focus.
.

Most of the MyMagic+ development and infrastructure is being done by outside contractors. Disney has not attempted to turn itself into an IT company.