FigmentForver96
Well-Known Member
Still going huh? Thank God for the ignore button.
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The Muppets Present… Great Moments in American History'
- Thread starter wdwgreek
- Start date
Seabasealpha1
Well-Known Member
nah...its over...back to the muppets...Sorry guys...really...
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FigmentForver96
Well-Known Member
You are good, nothing wrong with good spirited discussion
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Wish I had fonund that blog earlier it goes back to a time when real thought went into imagineering instead of cheap IP overlays
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
The original was immersive in much the same way HM uses the stretching room with the Hydrolator effect at the Seas
It was very effective in transporting you mentally from EPCOT to Seabase Alpha.
Now as to a Nemo overlay that worked the Subs at DL was a nice change from the old version which I also liked
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
I understand why everyone here on these forums is bashing the character tie-ins.. Y'all respect and appreciate the original concept of World Showcase. Themed around the culture and architecture of various countries.
That doesn't mean that Frozen doesn't fit in Norway. I'm a bit tired of everyone saying that it doesn't fit because Arrendale is a fictional land. The entire movie and such is slam packed with Norwegian theming from architecture, to wardrobe, with even trolls. Frozen will be fine and will attract more tourists than Maelstrom.
The actual RIDE for nemo itself is forgettable.. But when it comes to the aquarium and turtle talk with crush, there are definitely some memories that are being made there! Honestly Nemo makes the area less forgettable for children and families than just The Living Seas. I remember going to the living seas when I was reeeallyy little and I was so bored. I cried every time my parents took me there.
Do a little research.. The seas with nemo is actually averagely well liked by many people. Yelp, Trip Advisor, themego... Just general review sites from the average tourist. No Disney park enthusiasts. Tourists seem to be pleased and happy with nemo. My friends have enjoyed nemo. They've enjoyed Monsters Inc. They even enjoy the 3 Caballeros! *gasp*
People on these forums don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that the average tourist really likes the Disney-character overlays. They want to see their favorite characters.
This argument is not going to change, and my views aren't going to change so I'll leave it at that.
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
If you're running a business, and your profits come from this "lowest common denominator," then these changes does mean that Disney is making the right decision. People want characters so Disney is giving them characters. Kind of a majority rule here. The average tourist just outweighs the nostalgic appreciator.
I don't think the overlays are great. But there are more tourists who would like Nemo over the original Living Seas. I can just think of all the whining kids saying "Where's nemo mom?! Aren't we in the seas?! Ariel!!"
Is that why its a virtual walk on or short wait time on most days?
You misunderstand the reasons as to why people appreciated WDW in the past. The nostalgia is not for classic attractions and clinging to the past, its for the days of having better customer service, cleaner parks, show quality being a top priority, better prices, well trained and happy CM's, ability to walk into a TS restaurant without having made a reservation 60 day go, food that was worth the price, parks having their own identity and not everything becoming MK 2.0, monorails that did not constantly break down, reasonable wait times for premier attractions, longer EMH, no empty rotting buildings, not having to see a crane in a park for 36 months, new attractions actually being built from the ground up, new attractions that actually blew your socks off, new attractions that didnt require a "wait and see" approach because they werent penny pinching, new attractions that made you want to return, and the list goes on...
I dont walk into Epcot and yearn to ride Horizons again. I walk in and enjoy myself but when I look around I see less of everything I saw 25 years ago. How does 25 years give you less? Not in attractions, but in all the areas mentioned above? My mother has been visiting the parks (DL and WDW) since they both opened and she has a saying that she repeats every time we visit. She says, "you used to be able to drop your hat and a CM would pick it up, now they walk past it". When I was young and we would visit the parks and have an issue that was solved with outstanding customer service, they (my parents) would take a moment and explain to us the value of that service and how when we were old enough to work that we should treat customers the same way. They did this EVERY TIME. They did it so often that it stuck wit me throughout the years. While I still occasionally see that level of service, it is extremely few and far between.
Wow, and to think a rumor I shared grew into a detailed conversation about corporate synergy, theme park integrity (or lack of) and corporate decisions in theme parks. I want to point out to everyone the very fact we are on a forum debating this means we are all very passionate about Disney theme parks.
I don't think we should be blocking each other over disagreements about how theme parks work, I also don't think we should belittle each other or accuse them of being naïve because they don't absribe to the same philosophy as you. There is nothing wrong with being a theme park fanboy or purist, Disney has set a bar of quality which includes integrity and details through intricate design and careful planning, we expect them to continue to do so, on the other hand people are paying fist full of money to see characters they love and know. There has to be a balance
I hate the idea of Muppets in LS, I don't mind Nemo in the seas, it increased foot traffic in the pavilion and if you skip the ride part the aquarium is still very nice and popular, I hate frozen in Norway but enjoy the new Mexico ride. For me its about how intrusive something is in a land. The Mexico ride, is tucked in the back, while José and Patriccho look for Donald they tour through all parts of Mexico, giving a look at the country and then if you don't like it, the ride is in the back of the pavilion tucked away and does not shake you out of the location or the teeming. Frozen does that, and will do that, the entire pavilion will become Frozen land in Norway at Epcot and that's a problem. The Stave Church exhibit was the perfect amount of frozen. I don't mind the tomorrowland toon attractions, I much prefer alien encounter, timekeeper, and if you had wings, but honestly the new attractions still keep the feel and design of a foreign spaceport where anything is possible and you never know who you will meet.
Back to Liberty square, can there be a way to integrate Muppets in an nonintrusive way about a land about America circa 1775- 1789? Well let's work through it. Haunted Mansions new store could have been a very awkward fit, after all the interior reeks of 1860's style Victorian motifs, but the exterior is cleverly designed like 17th century New England colonial, but those can be slightly gothic in nature and brings up the same feelings, mainly because many colonial buildings have been repurposed through the years and gained Victorian charm. ( I live in New England and know of about a dozen examples). The line can be blurred.Another example splash mountain, brilliantly themed. Now if the AA's were all outside and visible from fronetierland as a whole then yes that is intrusive and bad show. Now is there a way to do a trick like that with Muppets? I don't think so, I don't think there is a way to make them not seem out of sorts in this land. I don't think there is an easy way to throw sam eagle on the roof and not make it seem like a farce. I shall wait and see what this manifests itself as, but as is it is hard to see how Muppets will be used in LS.
I don't think we should be blocking each other over disagreements about how theme parks work, I also don't think we should belittle each other or accuse them of being naïve because they don't absribe to the same philosophy as you. There is nothing wrong with being a theme park fanboy or purist, Disney has set a bar of quality which includes integrity and details through intricate design and careful planning, we expect them to continue to do so, on the other hand people are paying fist full of money to see characters they love and know. There has to be a balance
I hate the idea of Muppets in LS, I don't mind Nemo in the seas, it increased foot traffic in the pavilion and if you skip the ride part the aquarium is still very nice and popular, I hate frozen in Norway but enjoy the new Mexico ride. For me its about how intrusive something is in a land. The Mexico ride, is tucked in the back, while José and Patriccho look for Donald they tour through all parts of Mexico, giving a look at the country and then if you don't like it, the ride is in the back of the pavilion tucked away and does not shake you out of the location or the teeming. Frozen does that, and will do that, the entire pavilion will become Frozen land in Norway at Epcot and that's a problem. The Stave Church exhibit was the perfect amount of frozen. I don't mind the tomorrowland toon attractions, I much prefer alien encounter, timekeeper, and if you had wings, but honestly the new attractions still keep the feel and design of a foreign spaceport where anything is possible and you never know who you will meet.
Back to Liberty square, can there be a way to integrate Muppets in an nonintrusive way about a land about America circa 1775- 1789? Well let's work through it. Haunted Mansions new store could have been a very awkward fit, after all the interior reeks of 1860's style Victorian motifs, but the exterior is cleverly designed like 17th century New England colonial, but those can be slightly gothic in nature and brings up the same feelings, mainly because many colonial buildings have been repurposed through the years and gained Victorian charm. ( I live in New England and know of about a dozen examples). The line can be blurred.Another example splash mountain, brilliantly themed. Now if the AA's were all outside and visible from fronetierland as a whole then yes that is intrusive and bad show. Now is there a way to do a trick like that with Muppets? I don't think so, I don't think there is a way to make them not seem out of sorts in this land. I don't think there is an easy way to throw sam eagle on the roof and not make it seem like a farce. I shall wait and see what this manifests itself as, but as is it is hard to see how Muppets will be used in LS.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
^^^^ THIS ^^^^ Exactly it's the groundbreaking rides, quality and service we miss, Not that we wanted Horizons to be there for the next century, I happen to LOVE M:S but M:S needs to be an entire space pavillion not a single ride. Why do you think JAWS is not mourned by UNI fans, Yes he's still on the pier as a memorial (up for sale in the fish market) but the attraction which replaced Jaws (Diagon Alley and Hogwarts Express) is 1000x the attraction Jaws ever was so we can have fond memories of the past while experiencing something new and incredible.
Where Disney does cheap clones and off the shelf rides to replace classics and the new stuff does not compare to what was replaced that's why so many of us long time fans are so unhappy with the trajectory of the Disney Parks today.
Seabasealpha1
Well-Known Member
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
And see, I wouldn't understand that. I grew up with Disney in the early 2000's so there will always be a giant time-leap that I can't relate to what you guys have experienced. All I can refer to is various YouTube videos.. And from what videos I see, attractions like The Living Seas and the original Universe of Energy just didn't seem that great to me. I grew up with Ellen hosting energy, and nemo in the seas.. And quite frankly, I enjoyed them very much!! And I still do.. (With the exception of Ellen kind of dying a slow painful dated death years later.)
I grew up thinking El Rio del Tiempo was the most boring boat ride on property.. But Donald Duck added? Hey I loved it! I'm the generation of Food Rock instead of Kitchen Kabaret. And growing up, Food Rocks was my favorite thing ever. However it got a lot of criticism for replacing Kitchen Kabaret, which was a beloved show was higher quality animatronics. Yet, I still loved food rocks to death, not knowing what KK ever was.
Changes happen, and Disney World isn't what it used to be years ago anymore and it doesn't look like it ever will be. So you need to go to Disneyland to get that experience. As for me, I'm fine with the current changes being made.. Because this is the era of WDW I grew up with, and it's what I'm used to.
As for many of the older folks on these forums (not being offensive), changes to the parks are being made that y'all are not used to, because of whatever quality and experiences y'all had years ago. So you guys won't like it.
But when the average tourist is a first time guest at WDW, or has only been there once within the last 10 years, or is a part of my generation, then everything at Disney World seems to be top quality and awesome! But that's just the way things are. Like I say. WDW isn't relying on the locals to keep coming back, they're relying on tourists from across the globe. So whatever WDW was like years ago is not going to stay the same anymore.
that's just the way I see things.
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
This I can understand. You make some good points.. Universal has done a good job at replacing classic attractions with better outstanding attractions. So they're not driving away their classic-theme park fans.
Disney, however, doesn't seem to care about the memories, per say.. Because like I said, they seem to picture the big WDW enthusiasts as only a small amount of their profits. Hence, the "cloning" and IPs. The average tourist doesn't know what was in place before Mission: Space, so they don't know what they're missing. To them, Mission: Space IS a top-quality attraction.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Responses are color coded.
I don't really remember either show I guess because my family never really did it. I just know the song from a CD we had. Give me Soarin' Over the World.
You keep saying this but Disneyland has absolutely nothing like what has been taken away from Walt Disney World except Snow White, Mr. Toad, and the Submarines even though they're nothing like 20K.
I'm only 4 years older than you are. I just know how things used to be much better through either a little experience or research.
I'm 22, I love Kitchen Kaberet, however I think the original energy adventure was flat and not very exciting. The nostalgia glasses have to be on to enjoy that, just as my own nostalgia glasses are one when I Go on the current Energy adventure, but I think to say that you just don't know enough that's why you feel different and I know more so my thinking is correct is a shortsighted thought process. I have done a ton of Disney theme park research, read every blog own dozens of books, and I still have to say some of the epoct originals attraction were not all that great, many were but some like symbiosis or Magic Journey's the park is better off with new replacements. The current Pixar film festival is not a good or apprioate replacement, hopefully a real attraction is put there soon.
EDIT: I do agree with the sentiment that the parks are not run as well as they used to be.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Universal has done a good job at replacing classic attractions with better outstanding attractions. So they're not driving away their classic-theme park fans.
That statement is the key to at least my dissatisfaction with the parks, If you look at the history of DL and early WDW stuff that did not work was quickly added to or replaced. What UNI is doing is building a business using the playbook Iger and company discarded.
Mission Space is a top quality attraction in itself it has nothing to be ashamed of as a ride what it does not have is the sheer scope of Horizons, It would have been a worthy addtion to a updated Horizon's pavilion which at one time was supposed to be a spaceport set in the near future.
Seabasealpha1
Well-Known Member
You know I think Scope is one of the biggest things in total that I'm hungry for...I want to be overwhelmed with scope...
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
That's why 7DMT fails and Diagon Alley succeeds the secret is SCOPE.
Seabasealpha1
Well-Known Member
Here...take this link and go read this whole thing front to back... it seriously will be good for you...might even lead you down some new paths of park knowledge...this is actually a near and dear read to me and one of the first bits of real, gritty, history of the parks that I cut my teeth on...these guys are some of those "best" snarky people I argued about earlier...
mesaverdetimes.blogspot.com
It's worth it. I promise!
PS- you'll have to use the arrows at the bottom to get back to the start of the blog...best to start from the beginning!
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You are still 100% focused on attractions. WDW as an entire resort destination is more than just rides. You settle for the company giving you what you want, but once upon a time the company gave you an experience you never knew was possible. Thats the difference. You want the instant gratification of a Frozen ride RIGHT NOW! Sadly, that instant gratification takes 2 years... which is about the same time it once took to build a much better attraction from the ground up and it was awe inspiring...and in the proper location.