Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Why not? He seems to be a perfect fit there. He has feminine qualities and has a beat face. Makeup is on point. And he’s cheery and good with kids. Where else should he be working?
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The Miscellaneous Thought Thread
- Thread starter mickEblu
- Start date
I think it was just shocking to see that at Disneyland so I might be coming off a little more aggressive. It very much feels like the last straw for me but emotions are also a little high this week with Splash closing. I’ve also spent a lot of time here today and the TBA PR piece convo from earlier wasn’t very fun either and I also wouldn’t say the energy was good there. In fact I’d say I received bad energy for no reason.
Lastly let’s be clear that you insulted me first by insinuating I’m a creep. I made a comment on a stranger you don’t know and you insulted me.
I dunno. Hot Topic?
BubbaisSleep
Well-Known Member
I respect that and I do apologize. I have sensitivity to what I feel is bullying, so when you insulted this human & called him a creep while trying to work I took it personally. I couldn’t speak up growing up when I wasn’t a man but today I feel like that superpower is for me to uphold. I was being petty, you’re not a creep. I’m sorry!
Thank you. No worries. I’m sorry as well. I come from a Conservative-ish family and culture and even with that said there was a time where you could perhaps call me somewhat of an ally when I would defend Gay folks before it was cool. I'm all for equal rights, gay marriage, and not denying someone a job because of their sexuality but Whatever is happening the last couple years is just So over the top and has nothing to do with equality. Removing “ladies and gentlemen” from a parade intro. Guys with mustaches in dresses at Disneyland. I guess we’re just weeks away from a male Disney Princess at a meet n greet or parade? It’s gone too far IMO.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
He’s a perfect fit for Disneyland.
I do find people’s reactions to this interesting. If this guy didn’t have a moustache would it be okay for some people? If they swapped the dress for purple pants is it okay?
Out of interest is there even a male costume for this store? In my experience it’s always been females working in there.
Out of interest is there even a male costume for this store? In my experience it’s always been females working in there.
BasiltheBatLord
Well-Known Member
Most people agree. When kids get involved, that's the red line for a lot of people. And we've seen that line get crossed time and again the past few years.
Consumer
Well-Known Member
I’ll put this simply so nobody can accuse me of anything I didn’t say.
I only believe in two genders, male and female, and nobody can change the gender they were born as. I believe in gender roles, that men should be the providers and protectors of the household while women should be the nurturers and homemakers. I also believe marriage is between one man and one woman for life, and anything outside of that is not marriage.
I do not want my children anywhere near any person who will teach them anything different regarding gender, marriage, and sexuality. Not only do I believe anything differently is dishonoring to God, but I believe it is harmful to children. When I see those who reject the gender binary and engage in licentious and hedonistic behavior, I see nothing but misery, hatred, and anger, not love and joy. But when I look at those who uphold to the three truths I’ve outlined, I see fulfillment, and that is what I want for my children. For these reasons, I would not want my children going to Disneyland in its current state.
I trust that all who read this will see I am not being hateful in my words, because my words are not driven by hate. My words are a statement of beliefs, beliefs that many here and the billions of men and women who have walked this earth have held to for many millennia.
Of course, I’m happy to discuss this all further, but I suspect this branch of the thread won’t last much longer.
I only believe in two genders, male and female, and nobody can change the gender they were born as. I believe in gender roles, that men should be the providers and protectors of the household while women should be the nurturers and homemakers. I also believe marriage is between one man and one woman for life, and anything outside of that is not marriage.
I do not want my children anywhere near any person who will teach them anything different regarding gender, marriage, and sexuality. Not only do I believe anything differently is dishonoring to God, but I believe it is harmful to children. When I see those who reject the gender binary and engage in licentious and hedonistic behavior, I see nothing but misery, hatred, and anger, not love and joy. But when I look at those who uphold to the three truths I’ve outlined, I see fulfillment, and that is what I want for my children. For these reasons, I would not want my children going to Disneyland in its current state.
I trust that all who read this will see I am not being hateful in my words, because my words are not driven by hate. My words are a statement of beliefs, beliefs that many here and the billions of men and women who have walked this earth have held to for many millennia.
Of course, I’m happy to discuss this all further, but I suspect this branch of the thread won’t last much longer.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
Except there's no clear indication that any of this is actually harming children. There's been much gesturing, ranting, and foaming of the mouth over the past several years "for the children" regarding the way people dress, act, express themselves, acknowledge other people, and so on, with no evidence that any child is actually being harmed by any of this. Often in ways that insinuate that LGBTQ+ people are inherently predatory and looking to manipulate young minds. Maybe I'm a bad gay and I missed the meeting that stated otherwise, but more often than not the only message I've received from the queer community is "you can be whoever you want to be, and be happy however you want to be, as long as you don't hurt anyone else." Merely existing, to me, does not qualify as hurting anyone else. And if it does, than that says more about whoever holds that opinion than the person who is simply existing and trying to live their life.
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EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
Speaking for someone invested in the faith community, I'll tell you there's PLENTY of outrage, and necessary actions to remove offenders and punish them under every letter of the law to stop it from happening again. Maybe not in years past, but in my region and for the years I've been involved. Perhaps in decades past, it was swept under the rug, but no longer.
On the current issue we're discussing- I believe in respecting and loving every individual even if I don't agree- otherwise family reunions would be horrible.
However...I think the man in the dress and makeup issue is too in your face. There is one plus side besides providing employment. It does allow families to discuss differences in a manner that allows parents to train their own kids with their own beliefs. And that is something I strongly believe in.
But I still wish he had a different behind the scenes role at Disneyland if he wants to dress and be made up the way he does. The day should be about fun and not having to get into discussions about social mores of the day. This is just too far.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
He shouldn’t be behind the scenes. The ones who are affected by his presence in the store are choosing to be affected by it and choosing to not have fun.Speaking for someone invested in the faith community, I'll tell you there's PLENTY of outrage, and necessary actions to remove offenders and punish them under every letter of the law to stop it from happening again. Maybe not in years past, but in my region and for the years I've been involved. Perhaps in decades past, it was swept under the rug, but no longer.
On the current issue we're discussing- I believe in respecting and loving every individual even if I don't agree- otherwise family reunions would be horrible.
I think the man in the dress and makeup issue is too in your face. There is one plus side besides providing employment. It does allow families to discuss differences in a manner that allows parents to train their own kids with their own beliefs. And that is something I strongly believe in.
But I still wish he had a different behind the scenes role at Disneyland if he wants to dress and be made up the way he does. The day should be about fun and not having to get into discussions about social mores of the day. This is just too far.
BasiltheBatLord
Well-Known Member
I'm sure these posts will get deleted so not sure why I'm bothering but,
It's mostly that getting up front with children about other people's sexual preferences is just so incredibly weird.
This whole thing about pushing people's sexual proclivities and taking pride in them is just so unbelievably strange and uncomfortable. As others said, it's gotten way beyond gay marriage and letting gay people be accepted in society (something I've always supported).
I don't care about other people's sexualities... I mean I truly could not care less about it (as long as they're not hurting anyone or doing anything illegal). But everything you see today is trying to tell you that you must care, and that you're a terrible person if you don't. And that's a message people want to push on kids from a young age. It's just so bizarre.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Straight people have been doing exactly this since forever.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Don’t go to SeaWorld Abu Dhabi, it’s owned by a bunch of men wearing dresses.
PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
Does this cast member's overall demeanor and appearance say anything about their sexual preference? I'm not entirely certain that it does. Nor am I sure that it matters.
And straight people have these conversations all the time, but it's normalized to a degree that people don't think about it. Weird sorts of casual things said, like "oh, my infant son is friends with this other girl infant, they're gonna get married and have a family some day, haw haw, haw haw," said about people who do not even have concepts like object permanence nailed down. Meanwhile, merely acknowledging that gay people exist is apparently the downfall of society for many of these same people.
Contrary to popular rumor, literally no one is coming after the rights of straight people, but the same cannot be said about the LGBTQ+ community. People literally bullied Target into removing Pride merchandise, not to mention actual legislation that has been passed with flourish in a number of states lately. Hence, people are speaking up. If that comes across to you as "pushing people's sexual proclivities," then you're just not really aware of what is going on in much of the country right now.
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BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
Since we’re all adding to this thread that I’m sure will be deleted… drag has existed for a long time. And many straight male comedians when I was a kid used to use drag as a comedic device. Heck Bugs Bunny and Mrs Doubtfire (RIP Robin Williams) were probably my first introduction to the concept that men can dress as women. And don’t get me started on John Ritter (RIP), Dave Chappell, Dana Carvey, Rob Schneider, etc.
I’m not sure why something was seen as perfectly acceptable as a “family friendly” comedic device when most of us were kids is now suddenly problematic or “grooming” when intended as an actual lifestyle preference. It’s a good opportunity to have a conversation with kids about the world around them. In terms of LGBTQ issues more broadly I do agree with age appropriateness but simply educating a group of people exists from an awareness is not “promotion” as much as “acceptance” in my opinion.
I’m not sure why something was seen as perfectly acceptable as a “family friendly” comedic device when most of us were kids is now suddenly problematic or “grooming” when intended as an actual lifestyle preference. It’s a good opportunity to have a conversation with kids about the world around them. In terms of LGBTQ issues more broadly I do agree with age appropriateness but simply educating a group of people exists from an awareness is not “promotion” as much as “acceptance” in my opinion.
So how does this end? Does this guy get another shift this week? The difference between Budweiser and Disney is many of Disneys customers are sympathetic to something like this. Still playing with fire though and I can’t imagine shareholders are happy with any of this.
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of shareholders are probably conflicted. Those that would have opposed this on any supposed moral grounds likely already sold the stock. Most finance folks are largely socially progressive.
As a small shareholder myself: Where there is legitimate concern (and I don’t take any joy in saying this) is for broader cast member and guest safety.
There is a risk that things like this become so politicized that the company is left with a Sophie’s choice:
1) place the employee in a guest-facing role as is their right but at an enhanced security risk since they’ve been doxxed on socials; or
2) open the company up to greater risk a state/federal employment discrimination claim and negative headlines with a core contingency of their customer base by attempting to steer said employee to either a less guest facing role and/or imposing an attempt at gender normative attire.
Please don't confuse beliefs with actual biology. There is no either/or in nature. It is a continuum. There are people with XXY chromosomes. There is a sliding scale of male to female hormones in the population. There is a variety of naturally occurring physical expression. There are gay animals.
Humans are inclined to see things as one or the other because that helped us make snap decisions in order to survive. But it is an illusion. I've had non-biologists insist to me that all life is either a plant or an animal. No.
Humans are inclined to see things as one or the other because that helped us make snap decisions in order to survive. But it is an illusion. I've had non-biologists insist to me that all life is either a plant or an animal. No.