Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Oh dear................
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
The Hometown Rivalry. Even Meg Crofton was impressed by Potter.
- Thread starter SeaBase86
- Start date
71jason
Well-Known Member
Agreed that seems low--keep in mind during special events (which is where I believe you got that), not all attractions/restaurants are open. I doubt the "true" number is really out there for either park.
That said, it's not just that IoA went to capacity. DHS did not go to capacity. MK did not go to capacity at anything near historical levels. Multiple days of Stage 4 closings are routine--on the two busiest days of the year, MK didn't even go to a true Stage 3. Partly that could be 2 weeks of crowds spread over 3 weeks due to Christmas falling on a Saturday (this past week was more packed than anyone seemed to anticipate), but it seems likely a good deal of that is guests choosing IoA over those parks.
twinnstar
Active Member
Haha, thats true!! I forgot about that! I was actually going on a huge rant about that building while I was on line. I also was not too happy with the locker situation. I had a small purse (literally, the size of my hand - and no thicker than my hand, also!) and the guy at the front of the line promised me they would not let me on the ride with it. and I was like "well im not putting my credit cards and bank cards and iphone in a locker, cant I put them in my pocket?" and he said NO! lol. he said nothing was allowed to be in my pockets, and they would fall out on the ride. Ive been on crazy rollercoasters and I never lost anything on them, so I just put the purse under my shirt and went on lol And it was fine - AND! like tons of people in front of me had HUGE bags, and they just let them right on. That guy at the front of the line was not in character either! lol
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Their policy on small bags is out of whack--they actually have a small area in the seat of the ride vehicle to store small items (which some of the portraits and the Sorting Hat refer to), so I don't know why he would care about a small handbag. I find Universal's policy on bags to be a bit dumb. Sure, the lockers are free, but they are cumbersome and do not make me want to buy anything since it's such a hastle to put my souvenirs into a locker. Disney is much more accommodating of bags.Haha, thats true!! I forgot about that! I was actually going on a huge rant about that building while I was on line. I also was not too happy with the locker situation. I had a small purse (literally, the size of my hand - and no thicker than my hand, also!) and the guy at the front of the line promised me they would not let me on the ride with it. and I was like "well im not putting my credit cards and bank cards and iphone in a locker, cant I put them in my pocket?" and he said NO! lol. he said nothing was allowed to be in my pockets, and they would fall out on the ride. Ive been on crazy rollercoasters and I never lost anything on them, so I just put the purse under my shirt and went on lol And it was fine - AND! like tons of people in front of me had HUGE bags, and they just let them right on. That guy at the front of the line was not in character either! lol
EvanAnderson
Active Member
No you're correct. 2 years ago it was 35 - 37,000. With Potter open now, it's slightly more. It also varies if various attractions that weren't open before would open (Trike Encounter, Toon Theatre, Grinchmas Show). So with everything in the park open, and Potter, I'm guessing right at 40,000.
T-1MILLION
New Member
Great points! With Trike and all the smaller eateries open that would normally be seasonal closures along with Grinchmas the park easily had close to 40,000 people in it when it hit capacity.
EvanAnderson
Active Member
No, they didn't. If you let a guest on with a "huge bag" on a ride that does not allow bags, the Team Member gets in trouble. It's a safety thing.Haha, thats true!! I forgot about that! I was actually going on a huge rant about that building while I was on line. I also was not too happy with the locker situation. I had a small purse (literally, the size of my hand - and no thicker than my hand, also!) and the guy at the front of the line promised me they would not let me on the ride with it. and I was like "well im not putting my credit cards and bank cards and iphone in a locker, cant I put them in my pocket?" and he said NO! lol. he said nothing was allowed to be in my pockets, and they would fall out on the ride. Ive been on crazy rollercoasters and I never lost anything on them, so I just put the purse under my shirt and went on lol And it was fine - AND! like tons of people in front of me had HUGE bags, and they just let them right on. That guy at the front of the line was not in character either! lol
If you ride Forbidden Journey with a "huge bag" and it drops, it will land on the ride track somewhere. The vehicle behind yours will probably hit and run it over. Now some ride vehicles are designed to run over anything it hits and keep going, even if it's dragging shards of iPhones and wallets behind them. But some see that something is in the way and emergency stop itself. Then the ride is down and people are stuck and the ride has to be closed and it's an inconvenience for everyone. It also might mess up the million dollar vehicles. So then the ride is closed due to a bag getting loose, with a guest saying "your ride made me drop my bag, I'm suing". THAT"S where the TM will be getting in trouble.
There's an article about a bag coming loose on Space Mountain and hitting a man in the face who was knocked unconscious on the ride and came back slumped over, in front of his family.
BTW, those guests with "huge bags" were probably doing a child swap. One parent would wait with someone who isn't riding, and would hold the bags. I have been in line and seen party in front of me who has bags and the Team Member does not let them ride and sends them to the lockers. It's what they're supposed to do. So unless you can tell me you physically saw them in the ride vehicles, clutching their bag with them, I don't believe you.
BTW, the Team Member was acting like that because you were giving him a hard time. It's their job to enforce the rules. I bet they don't agree with it either, but like I said, knowingly letting someone in with a bag will get them in trouble.
Testtrack321
Well-Known Member
When a park hits capacity it means that someone has done something wrong. When a park hits capacity it is not a cause for celebration or high fives. IoA hitting capacity is easier than any other Disney park hitting capacity.
40,000 is a large number of guests, I agree, but we should not look at this like Disney is "losing" and Universal is "winning" because the Disney parks have adapted to absorbing huge influxes of guests. Look at the additional fireworks viewing locations, additional restrooms, and opened food locations at Epcot or the backstage areas that are opened at MK. None of this was done at IoA, nor could really be done. This creates guest confusion, anger, and frustration. Waiting an hour for a butterbeer seems like a great headline, but it's a guest relations nightmare.
What we're getting at here is that "hitting capacity", sensational headlines (million sold!), and other metrics don't accurately measure an impact of something like WWoHP. And what we've historically seen, with IoA opening, AK opening, and huge advertised rides opening is that Orlando always benefits more than one individual player. IoA has gained world class attractions and kept its parks up to date, but everyone gets additional guests who either were turned away at the gate all the way to wanting to try out Disney or Sea World.
Meg Croftom and the points made about WDW and TDO being nothing more than real estate agents is another topics I think we can spin off into another thread for...
twinnstar
Active Member
Wow, the way that you are talking I would have sworn you were there!!!!!!
They did let larger bags on, I saw it with my own eyes. You even just said that if they did they would get in trouble, whos to say they didnt get in trouble?
Like the person above me said - they even have little pouches to put your belongings in - but the guy at the front didnt tell me that. You dont think I could have put a purse the size of my hand in a pouch on the ride?! Other people put bags in there.
Also - I was not giving the guy a hard time, again - apparently you were there with me? I was very polite and told him I didnt feel safe putting my bank cards and iphone in a locker (which I dont think is crazy) and asked why I couldnt put them in my pocket instead. If you were there you would have known the guy was very rude to me, and I didnt have an experience with anyone else in the park like that. Everyone else was very nice - just this guy.
I've been to many amusement parks, and I've never experience the crazy bag/pocket deal that Universal has, so other people have successfully solved this in a more convenient fashion without getting sued or having accidents.
Anyway, I'm just telling you what happened when I went there, maybe that guy got in trouble, who the hell knows? But it happened. But please dont tell me what I saw, when I was the one that was there, not you!
ps. when i say huge im not talking about a garbage bag of stuff, im talking about a larger than normal purse, or a tote
They did let larger bags on, I saw it with my own eyes. You even just said that if they did they would get in trouble, whos to say they didnt get in trouble?
Like the person above me said - they even have little pouches to put your belongings in - but the guy at the front didnt tell me that. You dont think I could have put a purse the size of my hand in a pouch on the ride?! Other people put bags in there.
Also - I was not giving the guy a hard time, again - apparently you were there with me? I was very polite and told him I didnt feel safe putting my bank cards and iphone in a locker (which I dont think is crazy) and asked why I couldnt put them in my pocket instead. If you were there you would have known the guy was very rude to me, and I didnt have an experience with anyone else in the park like that. Everyone else was very nice - just this guy.
I've been to many amusement parks, and I've never experience the crazy bag/pocket deal that Universal has, so other people have successfully solved this in a more convenient fashion without getting sued or having accidents.
Anyway, I'm just telling you what happened when I went there, maybe that guy got in trouble, who the hell knows? But it happened. But please dont tell me what I saw, when I was the one that was there, not you!
ps. when i say huge im not talking about a garbage bag of stuff, im talking about a larger than normal purse, or a tote
T-1MILLION
New Member
I agree with you and Jakeman that that 36 percent increase sounds even better than what it really is can be used as a great PR lingo, but the fact remains that in comparison that company has seen a huge growth when Disney's is hitting a flat period says that Universal is performing better in that comparison aspect.
However you say when a park has hit capacity that means that someone has done something wrong, you are incorrect. That means the park has done things very right. They gave people a return time pass for later in the day if they did not want to wait all day for Potter once they got in, and the people who waited for an hour or two outside the turnstyles eventually go in. The park was also open until midnight at those times.
Will IOA have the same or better capacity as AK or DHS this year? No. But don't forget Potter did not open up until June. This year the park's numbers as a whole will be higher. The 2011 year could get them a lot closer to the DHS or AK numbers
cheezbat
Well-Known Member
I love how everyone is making note of Universal's huge increase and then talking about Disney being FLAT...You all do realize they are including ALL 6 of the US Disney parks in those attendance numbers don't you? Which basically tells me that while Universal had huge gains in their properties, and aside from maybe the Magic Kingdom, the other three WDW parks more than likely saw a loss this year in attendance. Everyone knows the Disneyland resort had a very good year. Just wait...it will come out eventually, even with Disney trying to hide it.
I think the real question is whether the trend will continue. A 36% attendance increase is a great thing. If it is followed by flat attendance or an attendance decrease then not so much. Right now you are trying to call the entire game based on the first half of the first quarter. Could you be right? Sure, but I would wait until the 2 minute warning to call the game.
marcriss
Member
Just some anecdotal info:
We just got back from WDW in December (10 days at the YC, 6th yr in a row). We were hoping to be able to book a bounceback offer for next year but Disney wasn't offering. We also go to 2 MVMCP each year, 2 castle dinners and TS dinner 8/10 nights.
Our kids were on the younger side to go to HP this year and the expense was too much for them to do so little, so we settled for shopping at the store in the airport and watching the movies most nights at WDW. I can honestly say that we spent more money on HP merchandise in the 40 minutes over 2 trips to the store than we did on Disney merchandise in 10 days (kids were 8 & 4).
As we plan this year's trip we know that we will be spending two days at Uni just for HP, everything else is gravy. Depending on what deals Disney offers, we may stay offsite for the first time at Uni. Which means 2-3 days less at Disney hotels, 2 fewer TS meals (we don't do the DDP) and possibly cutting one MVMCP & castle dinner.
We will not be extending our vacation. If LegoLand is open we may spend a day there as well. We are Disney diehards but Disney needs to wake up and realize that reduced offerings and increased prices do matter to people who have seen and done it all already.
We just got back from WDW in December (10 days at the YC, 6th yr in a row). We were hoping to be able to book a bounceback offer for next year but Disney wasn't offering. We also go to 2 MVMCP each year, 2 castle dinners and TS dinner 8/10 nights.
Our kids were on the younger side to go to HP this year and the expense was too much for them to do so little, so we settled for shopping at the store in the airport and watching the movies most nights at WDW. I can honestly say that we spent more money on HP merchandise in the 40 minutes over 2 trips to the store than we did on Disney merchandise in 10 days (kids were 8 & 4).
As we plan this year's trip we know that we will be spending two days at Uni just for HP, everything else is gravy. Depending on what deals Disney offers, we may stay offsite for the first time at Uni. Which means 2-3 days less at Disney hotels, 2 fewer TS meals (we don't do the DDP) and possibly cutting one MVMCP & castle dinner.
We will not be extending our vacation. If LegoLand is open we may spend a day there as well. We are Disney diehards but Disney needs to wake up and realize that reduced offerings and increased prices do matter to people who have seen and done it all already.
T-1MILLION
New Member
A lot of tourism anaylsis shows Potter as still the biggest stand alone draw in Central FL. Estimates based on bookings and travel agencies feel Universal will have sustained crowds from last year to match except for the June-August area where there may be a drop due to it not being able to compete with the mass rush there was when it was brand new.
It is not so much just Universal having something new and big to offer, its also a combonation of AK and other areas of WDW offering less or nothing different enough for people to choose it over Universal.
Regardless, I don't know of any single theme park investment Disney has made within a park that instantly made attendance rise 36 percent.
So in that regard yes, I can say for sure better performing.
Marcriss your example seems to be quite common as well. People are spending money that they would of otherwise spent at the Disney parks they are visiting. So even if they are still visiting Disney Parks, whatever comes after Potter the guest spending rate is down.
Good to know you can predict the future with 100% accuracy. As we all know analysts never over or under estimate trends.
Talk to me in 5 years. If IOA is still pulling the the same or better numbers we can call HP a long term success. Until then it is just fanboy rambling.
T-1MILLION
New Member
Good to know you can predict the future with 100% accuracy. As we all know analysts never over or under estimate trends.
Talk to me in 5 years. If IOA is still pulling the the same or better numbers we can call HP a long term success. Until then it is just fanboy rambling.
Good to know you can't read. I never said the future. Just what we can say for sure right now with the 36 percent increase and HUGE surge in merch profits.
Of course Potter won't be pulling the same number in five years.
Is AK pulling the same numbers almost five years after Everest opened?
I can still tell you which expansion between Everest and zerka vs Forbidden Journey and Wizarding world is better performing in returns for the investment.
Testtrack321
Well-Known Member
That's the defining factor. The Potter-heads already visited, the word is out that it's not a WHOLE NEW PARK OMG!!!, and people know what is offered. They can see the youtube videos and flickr photos. They see the butterbeer, fish & chips, and Forbidden Journey rides. Then people see the other two rides are coasters, or ones they've already been on. Or there are just a few shops and not much more.
Will attendance continue to grow? Will Disney's attendance grow too? Will attendance shrink? 2011 is the year to watch. Disney is adding nothing and Universal will be riding Potter to the bank.
We won't know till early 2012 and a year end report to see how this has impacted Disney and Universal. That requires patients, something most internet posters do not have. :lol:
jakeman
Well-Known Member
There is that 36% figure again.
6.2 million people would have to go to MK on top of that 17 million visitors that already went.
One more thing to put this 36% rise in attendance into perspective.
Assuming that the year end total will be 6.2 million for IoA, that puts it only 100,000 guest off from a high of 6.1 million in 2002.
So is a 36% jump in attendance really an increase if it is just putting you back to where you where in the beginning?
If any of the 4 theme parks had declined in attendance that much, you can bet folks here wouldn't be giving them the same pass they are giving Uni. Every thread would be a variation of, "It's good, but I'm not going to say good job on something they should have done anyways."
I must confess they are not. They have improved.
AK 2006 attendance 8.91 million
AK 2009 attendance 9.6 million
T-1MILLION
New Member
It is if it puts you back to where you were a brand new park...and this is only HALF the year.
Again. Potter did not open until June. This will be Potter's first full year.
Also if people are spending more(more than likely) than yes, it is better than the previous number.
Again. I get the 36 percent deal is more good PR sounding than what it actually is. I would say your estimate there is conservative but let's say it is 6.2 Million. That is a HUGE growth from where they were with one new attraction to bring you back up to your highest numbers ever when the biggest draw has only been there for part of that recorded year.
That was the point of my posts. From a business performance perspective. You have growth at Universal, and just staying flat for most of WDW.
And not "all the potter-heads" have visited. Potter, like Star Wars(closest comparison) is a Multi Billion dollar selling book and movie series. It has fans in Countries all over the world. It is a huge pop culture statement all over the world. The craze will die down like everything else but people are and will be saving for years for their chance to go.