The Grizz Will Roar!!

[General Grizz]

You're missing the point. Haunted Mansion and Pirates are timeless. The others I mentioned are either gone or way behind the curve and require replacement.

Wouldn't it be cool to have "Pal Walt" take you into the Penny Arcade?

Perhaps, I am missing the point! Do you think CoP is at all contemporary?

Woody - the point of the attraction has to do WITH time (hence, progress). The final scene needs updating (by it is not completely outdated, minus the reference to laser discs, but that was said by the old senile anyway - no offense to Rex Allen!)

Thus, "refreshen it!" and make it live would be a better suggestion than "donate it!" and make it part of the past.

 

[Woody13]

The smithsonian doesnt have room....

You're right Dave. My roots are from D.C. too!:wave:

 

[cloudboy]

One day without a computer and look what happens.

I most certainly agree that Disney is loosing it's focus. And yes, I think that it is a serious situation - not perhaps noticible over the next couple of years, but in 5 or 6 I believe it will really start to cause a considerable crisis (assuming this is not a wanted effect).

Many of these changes have a short term gain of increasing attendance. But the focus on short term financial gains versus cost is really having a detrimental effect on long term success. What is happening is that the whole value of Disney itself is getting thrown away. Soon, Disney will not be associated with the best vacation spot, the best value, the best quality movies, or the most wanted merchandise. As much as everyone hates the term "branding", the current management is absolutely killing the value of Disney.

Eisner and his team have shown that they really aren't paying attention to anything other than the bottom line and their own egos. And they aren't going to change on their own - if they were going to, they would have shown it by now. Instead they have simply thrown out a little pixie dust in hopes nobody would see what is really happening. And it is not just Eisner - it is the whole Disney management and management structure. IT needs more than a personal change - iot needs a whole cultural change.

Disney answers to it's stockholders. So if you are going to get change, you are going to have to convince them that all this stuff - clone rides, cheap merchandise and the Disney name plastered over everything within sight, is going to, in the long run, have a serious detrimental effect on the long term value of their stock.

Don't convince Eisner - he won't listen. Convince the major stockholders.

 

[Woody13]

Woody - the point of the attraction has to do WITH time (hence, progress). The final scene needs updating (by it is not completely outdated, minus the reference to laser discs, but that was said by the old senile anyway - no offense to Rex Allen!)

Thus, "refreshen it!" and make it live would be a better suggestion than "donate it!" and make it part of the past.

Grizz, the final scene spans over 60 years! The 3rd scene is in the 1940's. The other 3 scenes cover a total of 60 years of progress in 20 year segments (acts). Mercy me Grizz, but the technological progress made in the last 60 years (heck, the last 10 years) can not be told in the final act IMHO. Walt would be ashamed of you.

I say retire, preserve and protect CoP before it's sold off piece by piece on eBay!

Laser disks...:lol: Also, remember they talked about nuclear power plants as well! Another plug for General Electric. "Progress is our most important product." I wonder why GE doesn't use that slogan anymore? I wonder why?

 

[Kwit35]

Your scaring me. Where is my Disney going? I live 45 minutes from 6 flags, which I have been to once. I live 17 hours from Disney and I go 3-4 times a year. I go because it is the best. I go for the innocence and charm. I go for the fond memories and for a chance to touch my childhood, one more time. I go to see the gleam in my daughter's eyes when she sees something as magical pixie dust. I go for the music that sticks in your head for days on end ("it's a great big beautiful tomorrow", "grim, grinning ghosts", "it's a small world", "how do you do", "it's fun to be free"...).
If they keep taking away our classic rides and replacing them with cookie cutters, the magic will slowly start to die. I don't want to see that gleam in my daughter's eyes extinguished.
The AA's are what make Disney, Disney. They add that extra bit of charm and delight to each ride. Without those AA's what do you have? Six Flags!
Please don't do it to us Mr. Eisner. Don't take away our SE and our COP. Disney has not been the same since the loss of Horizons, Imagination (V1), and WOM. Keep the magic. Keep those AA's. If you do that, you keep us, your most loyal customers.

 

[General Grizz]

Grizz, the final scene spans over 60 years!

No. . .the final scene spans four minutes. The transition from the 1940s to the 1990s is 60 years. Is this a reason to close it? NO. Is this a reason to fix it? YES.

Walt would be ashamed of you.

Of course he would! After all, I would rather see it updated in 20 year segments rather than shipped off to a musem to be a dead tribute! Shame Shame on Grizz!

I say retire, preserve and protect CoP.

I say, restore, update, and redo CoP.

What would be the point of locking it up? Oy.

Also, remember they talked about nuclear power plants as well!

Not in the 1994 version, sir.

 

[Scooter]

Thanks for the rather lengthy Pep talk Grizz...

..but I, for one, aren't buying into your Disney Is Going To The Dogs theory.

My trip to Disney World was just as magical in May when I went as it was in 1989 on my 1st Disney Vacation.

I printed it out and read your post 3 times and don't agree with a LOT of your points. We're still allowed to do that right?

No one loves COP more than my family and I..no one. I have filmed it in it's entirety 3 times and still see it every time I go to WDW when it's open.

I once saw Groucho Marxs on TV..he was trying to make a comeback at age 90. He could barely talk, he could barely walk, and no one in the audiance laughed at his jokes. I felt so sorry for him...he was so funny in his heyday.

Now when I go on COP I feel the same way. While COP was, in it's hey day, one great attraction, even though it's only "seasonal" and everyone knows it's not long for this world, there was never more than a half filled house to see it. Maybe, much like Groucho Marxs, it's time for the man in COP to take his dog, and his family and just retire. It's so sad to sit in that beautiful COP theatre and see all the empty seats. I feel that even if you changed the ending scene once a month people still would not come...I guess no one wants to see audio animatronic kitchens anymore.

As for The Wonders of Life pavilion, the last time I went inside it when it was still open I swear could hear an echo when I spoke. Nothing short of a total revamping of the entire place will bring people back in there. I like the Health and fitness theme, it needs a total upgrading with some interactive areas to get people to come into the place. Then they need some new shows to keep them coming back.

On your comment about Cloned attractions...whats THAT all about? It seems to me that the only cloned attractions that are going to other Disney Parks from WDW and vice versa are the one that are time proven success story attractions. And as for no originality, in the last ten years WDW has added MANY original attractions including TOT, RockNRoaller Coaster, and Mickey's Philharmagic, Test Track, and lets not forget ...one ANIMAL KINGDOM.
No lame attractions are being cloned are they? I don't see Tiki Birds, which has ALWAYS had a lousy track record, even the original show, being cloned.
Which reminds me...why do you keep complaining about rapping birds in that show? I think Most peole will take rapping Iago over "Lets all sing like the birdies sing" anytime. :lol:
Anyway...whats WRONG with a park getting a "Cloned" attraction if it's a good one and people are going to enjoy seeing it? I don't think any of us have to worry about what Disney Imagineers have on the drawing board do we? First of all it's out of our control and 2nd of all, Philharmagic has somewhat restored my faith in Disney's ability to create new and magical attractions.

Someone said in an earlier post..perhaps we need a 5th park full of old retired attractions. Someone also mentioned putting COP in the Smithsonian. Both great ideas but both unrealistic. If I thought keeping COP open would get more people to view it I'd be right ON that bandwagon..but it won't. Why would I want to keep something open that nobody wants to see anymore except for a handfull of nostalgic fans. I don't even think Walt Disney himself would want to keep COP open if no body wanted to ride it anymore. I think he would shut the doors, smile, and say to himself. "We had a good run didn't we?" then he would do what he did best and dream up another idea for a newer better, more modern attraction...or he would bring in a "Cloned" attraction that he knew already that people loved.

I know I'm going to catch slack for this post from all you Grizz puppets out there, but Grizz, I think you're scaring alot of people with your "The place is going to Hell In a Handbasket" retoric and some might even cancel their Disney Trips beacuse of some of the things you have said...but like I said earlier...the last time I went to Walt Disney World was as exciting and as magical as the first time and there are exciting things to see everytime I go..and That's PART of what keeps me going back.

Right now I'm listening to an old Disney Park cassette I bought years ago.
it has songs on it like Listen To The Land, It's Fun To Be Free, Veggie Veggie Fruit Fruit, Spectromagic, Making Memories, In the Tiki Tiki Room, (Original version) One Little Spark (origional version) Horizons, and many others from attractions that were near and dear to me but no longer excist. Right in front of me is the Latest Park CD with songs like Beauty and The Bees and The Tower of Terror Theme...all NEW songs all that bring back memories of my newest Disney World adventures.

See...you CAN have your cake and eat it too. :animwink:

 

[Woody13]

I defer to Scooter.:wave:

 

[General Grizz]

We're still allowed to do that right?

. . . no, you aren't.

No one loves COP more than my family and I..no one. I have filmed it in it's entirety 3 times and still see it every time I go to WDW when it's open.

Is yur basis filming? I've filmed it 10+ times. :lol: Sorry. . .

It's so sad to sit in that beautiful COP theatre and see all the empty seats. I feel that even if you changed the ending scene once a month people still would not come...I guess no one wants to see audio animatronic kitchens anymore.

Actually, Carousel of Progress has had a VERY succesful attendance record for the whole year it's been open, even without the previous reduced hours. Sorry that you went at the "wrong time."

I like the Health and fitness theme, it needs a total upgrading with some interactive areas to get people to come into the place. Then they need some new shows to keep them coming back.

Hey, that's fine with me. Update it - go for it! But don't do away with it for a pavilion that will be a single thrill with half the area as unused. Puh-leeze!

On your comment about Cloned attractions...whats THAT all about? It seems to me that the only cloned attractions that are going to other Disney Parks from WDW and vice versa are the one that are time proven success story attractions.

That is correct. But, as I have said, they are successful within themselves. HOWEVER, the point was that Disney these days is not focusing on brand new attractions but making copies of what has worked elsewhere. . . if even replacing a pre-established area with it.

They're cutting back on new ideas, and that, my friend, is what is wrong.

And as for no originality, in the last ten years WDW has added MANY original attractions including TOT, RockNRoaller Coaster, and Mickey's Philharmagic, Test Track, and lets not forget ...one ANIMAL KINGDOM.

The last ten years includes New Tomorrowland, as well! But, the last ten years isn't the problem. The problem comes with the more recent time scale. Also, you have seen what I wrote about Test Track and Philharmagic (which is an excellent attraction); I won't repeat it since you've printed this out and read it three times.

Which reminds me...why do you keep complaining about rapping birds in that show? I think Most peole will take rapping Iago over "Lets all sing like the birdies sing" anytime. :lol:

An annoying bird? OUCH. That was tough.

Tiki needed something new. But they did it the totally wrong way. That was the point there.

Anyway...whats WRONG with a park getting a "Cloned" attraction if it's a good one and people are going to enjoy seeing it?

Because this is a perfect chance for Disney to cut back in its investment in the park, and more importantly, investment in NEW IDEAS. We haven't seen a Splash Mountain/Tower of Terror for ten years. Even the most recent attractions lack in the quality and otherwise (you've read this). . . and the same spirit of "cheap" versus "something new and exciting that replaces something great" is the wrong direction that will lead Disney, ultimately, in the hole.

I know I'm going to catch slack for this post from all you Grizz puppets out there, but Grizz, I think you're scaring alot of people with your "The place is going to Hell In a Handbasket" retoric and some might even cancel their Disney Trips beacuse of some of the things you have said...

That's going a little far. No one, including me, will cancel their vacations. Most people here have agreed, at least those who have replied, with their own ideas; thus, this being a post they agree with.

Right in front of me is the Latest Park CD with songs like Beauty and The Bees and The Tower of Terror Theme...all NEW songs all that bring back memories of my newest Disney World adventures.

That's pretty funny. Both songs you mentioned were originally made for TV and movies, unlike the ones you mentioned before.

I don't think any of us have to worry about what Disney Imagineers have on the drawing board do we?

Funny you say that, because Imagineers are starting to worry what's on the drawing board. Their jobs are becoming scarcer and scarcer, and their abilites to create new and exciting attractions has to be limited to "market" (bogus, short-term) genres and otherwise. (Again, see the Imagineer discussion on page one).

Disney is under a cloud. If the films, animation, layoffs, (and bonuses!) don't show you this, it's time to pop a bubble. Creativity has been cut back. . . short term gain has been put in (ala tamed down clones).

Time to change things. I'm ready.

 

[disnyfan89]

Disny said, "grizz the idea of changing SSE has long since been done away with!"

It was cancelled a while back, but they are now looking at it again.

And as for Smithsonian, that's a cheap giveaway. CoP was designed to be a living tribue to be kept in the parks. That's what Walt wanted, anyway.

(Isn't this WALT DISNEY World??)

where do you get this information from.

I have to agree with scooter. You are all acting like pupets of grizz.

 

[General Grizz]

where do you get this information from.

I have to agree with scooter. You are all acting like pupets of grizz.

Information is reputable; I can't go into specific sources, but I can't say my track record here rumor-wise hasn't been bad.

Sorry for being a master-minder. Please, start a roar and the "puppets" may go to you.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

So, Woody13, let me get this straight. A stage show that features the invention of and benefit of electricity and it's affect on our society ISN'T timeless, but Pirates of the Caribeean is? And polluting power plants, who needs power plants right? How did that statement even enter the discussion? Where are you going with this? Are you trying to make a political statement against electrical power? Be my guest. Have your electricity cut off. Then you won't have the power to boot up your compu....oops. Did I say that out loud?

And as for your pointless statement about Walt Disney and an AA in his likeness, what a crock. Do you have something worthwhile to contribute to this discussion? If so, please enlighten all of us. Otherwise, please refrain from trying to rain on our parade. If you don't like Walt Disney, or the rides. DON'T GO THERE. Go to Panama Beach for MTV's Spring Break. I'm sure you'll find a constituency there that will listen. As for the rest of us, we're going to do all we can to maintain the history and legacy of WDW that WE would like to see preserved.

Thank YOU for your time and attention.

 

[disnyfan89]

so they are looking at again. Did your sources tell you what phase they are in! For all you know they could still be in blue sky which is as far as they got last time. Untill they have a set plan I wouldn't worry to much.

 

[General Grizz]

So, Woody13, let me get this straight. A stage show that features the invention of and benefit of electricity and it's affect on our society ISN'T timeless, but Pirates of the Caribeean is? And polluting power plants, who needs power plants right? How did that statement even enter the discussion? Where are you going with this? Are you trying to make a political statement against electrical power? Be my guest. Have your electricity cut off. Then you won't have the power to boot up your compu....oops. Did I say that out loud?

And as for your pointless statement about Walt Disney and an AA in his likeness, what a crock. Do you have something worthwhile to contribute to this discussion? If so, please enlighten all of us. Otherwise, please refrain from trying to rain on our parade. If you don't like Walt Disney, or the rides. DON'T GO THERE. Go to Panama Beach for MTV's Spring Break. I'm sure you'll find a constituency there that will listen. As for the rest of us, we're going to do all we can to maintain the history and legacy of WDW that WE would like to see preserved.

Thank YOU for your time and attention.

Sorry, you made me giggle.

 

[Shaman]

Thanks for the rather lengthy Pep talk Grizz...

.......

I printed it out and read your post 3 times and don't agree with a LOT of your points. We're still allowed to do that right?

.......

I know I'm going to catch slack for this post from all you Grizz puppets out there, but Grizz, I think you're scaring alot of people with your "The place is going to Hell In a Handbasket" retoric and some might even cancel their Disney Trips beacuse of some of the things you have said...but like I said earlier...the last time I went to Walt Disney World was as exciting and as magical as the first time and there are exciting things to see everytime I go..and That's PART of what keeps me going back.

I respect your point of view, and I'll be the first to say that my last trip to Disney was not any less magical than the first...I've been a passholder since '98 and attended Disney many times prior to that...and every trip is still magical...

That being said, was it a magical trip for those who were on Thunder Mountain over at DLR when it had its accidents? Or how about for those who pay all that money to get terrible park hours with many rides closed or under long rehabs? Or is it a magical start for those who are hassled when they call in to reserve rooms and are met with 100 questions?

What can we honestly expect in the future...all the current 'new' attractions have a very short life expectancy (atleast for me anyway)...look how long AE lasted, before management said 'enough', time to bring in the kiddies and their parents and the $$...I'm ok with change, I'm ok with getting rid of the old and bringing in the new...just as long as what is being brought in, is of the same worth or more, as what was replaced...

How long will it be before Test Track gets old, or M:S, or even a kiddie ride like Pooh? I'll bet that those rides will get old quicker than the classics...rides like PotC and HM are priceless...will PhilharMagic last aslong as Small World? Will Primeval Whirl?

All I'm saying is that management lacks the vision to ensure with 100% certainty, that there will be a themepark business left for Disney to run...consumers are not dumb...the reason why AK is last of the four parks in attendence is because people know its a half day park...now imagine what would have been if it would have opened a full day park....

Its a business...but there are smart ways and dumb ways to run a business and just look at how much Disney is worth nowadays...and you'll see how its being run...

Just my opinion...and for the record...I'm not a puppet...or a muppet...

 

[jrashadb]

Hey, I'm not a puppet. I'm a REAL BOY!

Ugh...

:brick:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[General Grizz]

I'm ok with change, I'm ok with getting rid of the old and bringing in the new...just as long as what is being brought in, is of the same worth or more, as what was replaced...

B-I-N-G-O.

You hit very valid points. WITHOUT being a puppet. Or a muppet. :wave:

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Well OBJR, allow me to elaborate on your comments. While it is true that there are smart and dumb ways to run a business, the bottom line for Disney's parks is volume. While a vast majority out there would love another Universal Studios, Disney realizes that won't bring in the litte ones and their parents. As for knowing how long any given attraction will last, who really knows the answer to that one? And believe me, if you'll read thru a lot of the comments that both Grizz and I have made regarding the direction of Disney, I think you would find that we have been very critical of Mgmt. with Disney. Classics are just that. Classics!!! They need no further explanation as to why they last. We're all for keeping the classics. That's exactly what we have been saying. As for Disney, alas, it's a business. And in business, as in life, things change. Always for the better? Nope. But, you know what? You need look no further than the leader of the company for the answers to your questions.

Tell me this, why do so many people out there want the heads of Enron thrown in jail, yet some of those same people find it difficult to even find fault with Micheal Eisner and his decision making at Disney?

 

[HennieBogan1966]

By the way Grizz, glad I could entertain ya. Lol.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Oh yeah, I'll be surprised if we hear much more from Woody on this thread.