The Force Awakens - spoiler thread

[wdisney9000]

When the Force called to Rey, was it Obi Wans voice? It sounded like it. Sorry if this has been mentioned

 

[Cesar R M]

If that's the reason Lucas wants to use for why the fights were so stylized and choreographed, that's fine. The film then runs into the problem of why did Lucas give Jedi this sort of fighting foresight to begin with, because now each fight starts with the uphill battle of creating memorable action where the stakes and circumstances are generally predetermined.

I actually thanked god they didn't do a super choreographed fight.
the fights in the prequels looked so silly. mainly the constantly silly flips/jumps/sumersaults.
the only one that didn't look cheesy, was Palpatine's and Joda's.

 

[doctornick]

That still stands. Disney and Lucasfilm can take whatever they want from the expanded universe and make it canon in future films, but everything previously established as canon no longer is.

I think the point is that the background information on the Resistance and First Order posted earlier in this thread is actually canon because it is part of the new sanctioned Expanded Universe produced by Disney/Lucasfilm.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

When the Force called to Rey, was it Obi Wans voice? It sounded like it. Sorry if this has been mentioned

Yes, apparently we hear Yoda and Obi-Wan (both actors in fact). I didn't notice it during either viewing so really need to listen for this next time.

 

[flynnibus]

Granted, Abrahams could have just created a new enemy and/or plot that rose up but thats kinda what Kylo Ren exactly is with more of a link to the original characters. He also would have been accused for simply doing exactly what he did with Star Trek and create a new Universe/reality. Star Trek fans were ticked that he just created an alternate reality.

The star trek analogy doesn't work because JJ's ST wasn't a new story added onto the existing universe, it was a re-telling of the existing universe, that conveniently created an alt universe in the story to avoid having to stay true to existing content. He created a new, replacement story and cast.

Where in SW what is supposed to be the 'next' story turns out to not just use continuity, but type casts people into stereotypical roles and scenes. Its labeled something new, but it has a ton of bizzaro-world repeats that make it NOT new.

The idea of an empire and rebellion... ok, not bad. The idea that each leadership ring needs these three type cast characters, that all interact the same way the previous incarnation do, etc.. thats when something starts to have a stink to it.

 

[lebeau]

It was 5 years later, but the rating didn't change much until the film was re-released in 3D years later. Critics didn't amend their original ratings, and I doubt enough new reviews were added to drop the rating 20-30 percentage points between 1999 and 2004.

They may not have even had Tomato Scores in 1999.

There was an article written on the Secret History of SW website about the positive reviews that initially accompanied the release of TPM. I would link to it, but sadly the article is no longer available.

I don't want to get too bogged down in that argument. My main point as relates to TFA is that once the hypes dies down the movie will be reappraised. It happens with almost every big tentpole movie. It happened with Abrams' Star Trek 2009 if you prefer that comparison.

 

[flynnibus]

can someone clarify.. when Kylo is talking in his chamber and they reveal vader's mask. Doesn't he say something to the effect of 'I'll finish what you started father..' referring to Vader? My Q is.. does he refer to Vader as father here? Shouldn't it be his uncle? Did I miss the lines?

 

[lebeau]

Not really. I know we've already had this discussion before, but while there were hardcore fanboys praising TPM, the movie was widely panned and early. I didn't see the film until about 2 weeks out and I had already heard that the film wasn't very good. The critical response to TPM was far more mixed and negative than it has been to TFA.

That is not true. Initial reviews for TPM were largely positive.

 

[flynnibus]

That is not true. Initial reviews for TPM were largely positive.

Yup.. JarJar was pointed out early.. but most were far more overtaken by the idea we had fresh films. It wasn't until the really bad acting/dialog in the second film by HaydenC that I think the gloves really came off and people got very critical of the series as a whole.

 

[Tony Perkis]

That is not true. Initial reviews for TPM were largely positive.

Reviews were never close to 80% or 90% positive for TPM. It hovered around 65% to 70% initially. It's dipped to 57%.

TFA isn't dipping from 95% to 60%.

Once the novelty of "OMG NEW STAR WARS" wore off and AotC proved that TPM wasn't an anomoly, people became much more initially critical about the quality of those films. The exact same thing happened with Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

 

[lazyboy97o]

can someone clarify.. when Kylo is talking in his chamber and they reveal vader's mask. Doesn't he say something to the effect of 'I'll finish what you started father..' referring to Vader? My Q is.. does he refer to Vader as father here? Shouldn't it be his uncle? Did I miss the lines?

Why would it be uncle? Darth Vader is his grandfather. I don't recall the words well enough to make a case for what he said.

 

[danlb_2000]

can someone clarify.. when Kylo is talking in his chamber and they reveal vader's mask. Doesn't he say something to the effect of 'I'll finish what you started father..' referring to Vader? My Q is.. does he refer to Vader as father here? Shouldn't it be his uncle? Did I miss the lines?

He says "Grandfather".

 

[Cesar R M]

First off, I loved the film, but that's not to say it didn't have it's problems. The entire thing was a rehash, but I get why, they needed to play it safe to get the initial installment off the ground. Disney, with $4B on the line couldn't get overly ambitious, they needed a sure fire homerun, so went to the tried and true formula. I have every confidence they will shake it up in the future now that they have a "history" of making good Star Wars films. I think they've done a generally good job of this in the Marvel universe, though after 10 years, I'm very ready to move beyond Infinity Stones. Still, all in all, the different franchises have had different feels and has led to a more dynamic universe. Future Star Wars should get better by becoming more diverse as well.

What really bothered me the most though was the scope of the movie universe. I get that Star Wars is about the people, but what's captured my attention in the past has been the size and scale of the universe. In RotJ, there were many Star Destroyers and many Rebel Cruisers. The action in Attack of the Clones and in Revenge of the Sith involved massive fleets and armies fighting important battles. (Discussing intent, not execution. I'm not saying the prequel battles were done better). In TFA, the best the resistance can muster is 2 squadrons of fighters against the biggest threat the galaxy has ever faced? I'm not ignoring the fact that the 1st Order just destroyed the Republic Fleet and headquarters, I'm actually thinking that drives my point home further. In the old universe, one would expect the Republic to have multiple fleets to patrol a galaxy with thousands of worlds. Here, they have 1 fleet, and it just stays at the capitol planet? That seems so small. Why is the Resistance's military might roughly equivalent to the Air National Guard for the state of Vermont?

As for the size of the universe, it also felt so tiny. In ANH, there was the scene on board the Falcon where Luke is training with the mask on while they travel. That scene added to the sense of the scale of the universe because transportation was not instantaneous. It takes time to get places. Here, in TFA, Star Killer Base fires from one system, it can be scene in the sky of another system, and hits a third system, presumably very far away since the premise here seems to be that the Republic doesn't care about the 1st Order since they are so far away. The scale of this universe seems tiny. The final assault on SKB is only launched after confirmation of the shields being down. Match that against RotJ when they are rushing to get the shields down before the fleet arrives. It took time to get across the galaxy so things had to be coordinated.

Finally, the final scenes. I expected Rey and Chewie to take off and have the movie end, just as it did in ESB. The fact that they took off and found Luke in 10 seconds just made me feel like they didn't have to look very hard. I get that you need to suspend disbelief, but this post isn't about that, I was totally into it. It just felt like this is a regional conflict, and not something that affects the entire galaxy. The scope of everything here felt all wrong to me.

Pretty sure that this "new republic" isnt the old empire. Just an splinter of separatists that united.
They had .. what? 5 planets which were obliterated in a single barrage?
What if all the fleets were stationed in the different planets and were also obliterated?

Also, the First Orders are clearly the remnants of the empire that didn't switch or flee.
They wouldn't have a giant army since most of their armada was destroyed at Endor (including the supposed 1 out of 3 Executor dreadnoughts)

So its clear they continued to embrace the "super weapon" mantra of Palpatine with the sun megaweapon.

 

[FoozieBear]

You know what film this year combined great characters and hyper-stylized action? Mad Max: Fury Road.

Really? But I heard there was like, zero story. I plan to give it a look but the lack of story has been holding me off.

 

[Cesar R M]

Lucasfilm confirmed that the expanded universe is no longer canon.

even if they dont, Most of the expanded universe characters seem to be on the new movie. They just switched names and fiddled a bit with the ideas. But its essentially the same.
Kinda like a "reboot" of spiderman vs amazing spider-man.

 

[danlb_2000]

I don't agree with this. The new characters have quite a bit different characteristics to distinguish themselves from their original counterparts.
.

I agree with this. Vader is a very controlled and calculating enemy, whereas they have made Kylo much more of a loose cannon. I also like the dynamic between Kylo, Hux and Snoke.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Really? But I heard there was like, zero story. I plan to give it a look but the lack of story has been holding me off.

The film is about to be nominated for Best Picture and has a strong chance for a Best Director nomination. It's a fantastic film.

The film has a story. It's just told during the proceedings of a two hour action scene.

 

[Mawg]

What if Rey is not a Solo or a Skywalker but instead the beginning of a new blood line. Born of the Force with no father just like Anakin. Maybe she is the one the prophecy really was about and now there will be two houses of the Force. I guess there was too much foreshadowing that she is somehow related but I like the idea of future movies being based on two houses of the Force becoming intertwined. Having two families born of the force really does bring balance to the force. As one generation of a family falls to the dark side there is another generation of another family that can take it on. The next trilogy could be Star Wars meets West Side Story or Romeo and Juliette, two houses divided and two lovers caught between them. Seems like something Disney would do.

 

[Cesar R M]

No but as far as I am concerned, that's a distinction without a difference. If it quacks like the empire, it's the empire.



Right. I can come up with theories. But from what was presented in the movie, it seems like a stretch. Maybe they have some great backstory which we will get in three years. For now, it feels like they just copied and pasted the status quo form the original on a new movie as a form of risk avoidance.

My prediction is that the movies will largely gloss over the rise of Kylo Ren and the First Order because the details don't make a lot of sense.

perhaps that is what the supposed ROGUE ONE or Harrison Ford's HAN SOLO movies will explain.
exactly WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED after the battle of Endor.

 

[Tony Perkis]

What if Rey is not a Solo or a Skywalker but instead the beginning of a new blood line. Born of the Force with no father just like Anakin. Maybe she is the one the prophecy really was about and now there will be two houses of the Force. I guess there was too much foreshadowing that she is somehow related but I like the idea of future movies being based on two houses of the Force becoming intertwined. Having two families born of the force really does bring balance to the force. As one generation of a family falls to the dark side there is another generation of another family that can take it on. The next trilogy could be Star Wars meets West Side Story or Romeo and Juliette, two houses divided and two lovers caught between them. Seems like something Disney would do.

Disney corporate isn't going to be dictating storylines. Kathleen Kennedy will be the liaison between corporate and the creatives at Lucasfilm.